Yanis Varoufakis on the death of capitalism, Starmer, and the tyranny of big tech 

The way Yanis explains things, it makes you almost addicted to learn more. You don't want him to stop talking because he keeps unveiling truths one after the other. He does it in a way that makes sense to the average person, whilst in an intelligent way that reinforces his expertise and mastery of economics. One of the best modern economists of all time.

Yanis is a speaker of the truth. Big respect. We need world leaders like this.

'Cloud Serf' and 'Cloud Capital'. I know what I am. This is an amazing lecture. Yanis has given me a framework in which to understand my economic reality in the 2023 world.

A good interview: Guru-Murthy did not try to win an argument but instead put questions that allowed Varoufakis to elaborate.

He's spot on about Starmer's spinelessness.

Went to school, learned history, said to myself: I'm so lucky I was not born in feudal times! *Decades later* Me: Ouch!

Thank you Yanis for being on the side of truth and justice for all mankind.

Thank you for the interview with Yanis, such an intelligent & honest human being

Varoufakis is the ONLY political figure I admire. He has integrity abounds. He was beaten up by thugs in Greece recently and we all condemned the attack. Im glad he appears to be fully recovered, though the anxiety of being a truth teller in this world must be constant. I joined Diem25 (a pan European political movement) as a direct result of his involvement. Godspeed to Yanis. I wish we could clone the man.

I will never give up believing in Yanis' message. This treadmill of wealth inequality cannot last forever, the people will wake up, it's only a matter of time

I love when he said of Sunak and Starmer, "they're not in power, they're in government".

During the Greek crisis I couldn't get enough of this great Greek then. Now I can even hardly get enough of this guy. He's a gem!

Vanis is constantly excellent. Highly intelligent, clear-headed, highly analytical, intuitive, courageous, compelling and charming. A highly important thinker and speaker.

It doesn't matter which side of the great divide you're on. This man speaks a lot of truth!

Varoufakis is one of the few politicians/economists, who talks any sense. There's no way to get around his absolute logic. 😎

Yanis is the only teacher who can simplify complex ideas elegantly in short period of time!

Yanis you are too. damn honest and straight forward. How are you still alive? People like you should lead Greece.

Yanis is a master economist. He once said that Thatcher is the worst thing to happen to England since the great wars because she sold all of our highly lucrative nationalised industries to other governments, hence why the French government receive most of the profits from our energy bills.

This dude is fascinating. Love the way he speaks, even krishnan was enamoured. The concept of techno feudalism 🤯... He is so so right. History really does repeat itself and we really do have a generation of techno surfs feeding their narcissistic overlords. Parasitic wealth accumulation is the mantra of today's financial elite.

Thank you for this interview, appreciate Channel 4 letting Yanis speak on this

I am French and I sometimes had difficulty understanding what he was saying but I constantly went back to make sure I understood all his thoughts...because I was convinced that I was listening something important.Thank you Yanis....and well done Channel 4!

One of my favourite political commentators. Read two of his books and will be reading this new one

Congratulations to channel 4,this was great program,and yanis is truly inspiring ,his clear thinking and honesty is a credit to the Greek people.The only problem is honesty and equality doesn't work in politics.

I wish many more people would read and listen to him. He is a clear explainer and not condescending.

"cloud serf", brilliant observation. I find Yanis to be a voice of reasoned progressive thought.

This man is an absolute genius

I WISH I HAD HIM AS A TEACHER WHILE STUDYING ECONOMICS. I WOULDN'T HAVE QUIT MY STUDIES!!!!! HE IS AN UNBELIEVEABLE SPOKESMAN,SIMPLE AND CLEAR THOUGHTS, SIMPLE WAY OF EXPLAINING . I LIVED IN THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT HAD A SYSTEM HE'S TALKING ABOUT. WE CALLED IT " SOCIALIST SELFGOVERNING"... WE ALL HAD SHARES IN PUBLIC COMPANIES AND WERE INVOLVED IN DECISION MAKING IN COMPANY. IT WAS IN EIGHTIES IN YUGOSLAVIA. EVEN BACK THEN I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY COOL SYSTEM. THIS WAY THE WORKERS WERE MOTIVATED TO WORK HARDER AND MORE EFFICIENT. THIS MAN IS A GENIUS. I LIKE HIM VERY MUCH . IF HE WASNT SO INTO LGBTQ THING I WOULD SURELY VOTE FOR HIM. HE IS A VERY DANGEROUS MAN THOUGH. DANGEROUS FOR THIS SYSTEM AND I WONDER SOMETIMES HOW THEY STILL LET HIM BREATHE...❤ I THOUGH IT WAS REALLY

I can't get enough of Yanis ever since I heard him discussing the world crisis for the first time in a couple of months if not a few years. He's IMO the David Icke of economics. I know many will disagree or even be crossed with me but he's very awake and conscious but very "professional".

I could listen to Yanis all day, he has such a lovely voice. Happily some brilliant ideas too.

Yanis nailing it. Excellent interview Krishnan.

I loved all the thoughts and propositions made by Varoufakis. I was also amused with Guru-Murthy's discomfort at his remarks about the spinelessness of both Starmer and Sunak; that it now makes no difference who is in government. Yanis Varoufakis is one of those rare people in politics - a truth teller. The powers that be don't like that, an example being perhaps the spurious accusations made by a gang of hired thugs who beat up Yanis in Athens earlier this year.

Yanis clearly knows his business because he explains it so clearly that the average chap can understand. Will be buying his book.

An amazing interview with one of the best thinkers and economists out there!

He makes such a good point. Something we all know but struggle to out into words, he's really nailed down a great framing of it. Also, the simple observation he made about Facebook spending 1% of their revenue on employees vs 'old' companies spending 80% is a great one.

Yanis is so interesting to listen to - the way he explains things, his in-depth and wide breadth of knowledge, the subject matter and I love his voice. It's probably listen to just about anything he talked about.

In my view, he is the only person who explains what is going on today in a way that is easy for everyone to understand. I love his explanations and they should be heard by everyone.

This is a man with a great intellect and vision.

Always love to hear from Yanis. One of the GOATs.

Great interview! I never attempted to understand anything about economics. Will have to let it sink in. Varoufakis is a very clear thinker. Thank you.

Respect how he is honest and admits he failed in what he was trying to do, makes me able to take him more seriously

This is why “getting the message” is important. We should never have ceded the public and commercial spaces to wealth, so they became yet again all things.

15:48 it makes perfect sense when you understand who supplies software, infrastructure and cloud as a service. AWS, Microsoft Azure. Once you understand this, you’ll get what Yannis saying.

I ❤ this guy!!! Worth listening all his interview / podcasts

One of the few people who understands, and articulates so well, that Eurozone members can go bankrupt (and have already, in the case of Greece). Those with sovereign currencies cannot, because their debts are denominated in their own currencies, which they can print to meet their obligations. The Euro was created to eventually force the EU into a debt crisis where making it a federal state is the solution. However, any country attempting to be in the EU without being in the Eurozone will be at a competitive disadvantage that will increase as time passes. The focus on immigration and blue passports during Brexit was all nonsense. This is absolutely the most important reason why it was the right decision, regardless of how our low-calibre politicians mess it up.

A very very engaging, interesting, informative and charismatic man. I've a lot of respect for Yanis.

Great views, it's really sad he is not in the Greek parliament. Domestically he is ridiculed by the media and other politicians, while internationally he is esteemed. As a Greek/British it is so sad to see how he is treated in Greece

Grateful to have come across this interview. Greetings from Sydney Australia. Be stoic , healthy and wise. Most importantly stay free as possible.

I love and admire this man. He talks in a sophisticated way but with heartfelt dedication. You know he uses his enormous intellect to produce ideas for the benefit of the common folks. I hipe that sooner or later his ideas take hold. Capitalis. Must die or we must kill it if humanity is to survive.

Bloody brilliant! that was so inspiring, the world needs big bold revolutionary thinkers like Yannis !

I’d argue this is also happening in the property market, with corporations like Lloyds and John Lewis in the UK buying up properties to rent them out instead of allowing people to buy them. So we end up paying ‘subscriptions’ for everything including housing, not very different from feudalism as Yanis argues. Once AR/VR takes over, you technically just need a room with a bed / somewhere to sit down and eat, and then live most of your life virtually by either projecting amenities into the empty room via AR or just disappearing totally into VR, giving tech corporations total control over all our lives.

Never heard about Yanis before, but amazing insights, captivating interview. I will look into his book. Of course nations to fail and corporates to rule paradigm is long discussed but laying out in this structural manner was very enlightening.

Great discussion, appreciated the transparency and truth from Mr Varoufakis.

Very insightful and interesting conversation. His analysis of Starmer is very accurate.

Yannis was, and still is, a voice of sense and inspiration

Excellent interview. I like Varoufakis very much, he isn't like 99% of our (corrupted) politicians, and is thus free to come-up with solutions that will work for the people, not the big corporations.

this Greek Yanis is easy to listen to. he is on point and more .I cannot have enough.

Yanis is a genius.

Varoufakis is so clever and knowledgeable! I'm impressed and thirsty to learn more about fair economics.

Yanis does an easy-to-follow description, and explanation of the mechanisms changing our monetary, economic and political environment. Well done!

Thank you Yanis and thank you Krishnan for the great questions and hosting!

I remember reading schumpeter and his predications about capitalism’s survival and it seems as if his conclusion was slightly close but that Yanis has figured it was actually capital to limit itself through cloud capital and rents (turning into ‘technofeudalism’) instead of a intellectual socialist class. By far the most interesting insight to our modern context that I could never quite grasp myself until now. It seems - like with landlords - similarly there is also a freehold and lease system. For example certain stores for applications may use AWS to serve a storefront which charges commission (rent) to other digital creators etc. etc. so quite literally a lot of tech stems from a centralised freeholder of land that leases and leases and the money returns to the top. (Like that triangle they show everyone in school) While it is true that with our current context a centralised big tech world is indeed feudalistic in its distribution of funds what is potentially missed is differing web models. With the introduction of blockchain technology web 3 could potentially mean a decentralised system where commissions for transactions are dispersed instead of aggregated to one large central entity. (Surprised interviewer didn’t mention this point). But still the issue of cloud serfs would exist with advertising models and data collection like Yanis mentions. A dispersed model may give people more web sovereignty but still many voluntarily would waiver their ‘labour’ for whatever services they are addicted to. And I do think in this sense considering these are realms of public communication the web should be more democratised and policy should make sure so. I think tech is so profitable because the marginal cost of one extra user is next to nothing yet the rent gained is massive. In this sense big tech should have a special regulatory framework. Just rambling along Yanis really got me thinking. Haven’t heard something quite this revolutionary in a long time. Thank you Yanis!

This guy always hits the nail on the head

A true thinker paying credit to his Greek origins. Thanks a million, Yanis, for being a light in this dark era.

Yanis is fantastic thinker. Love his take on big tech. His willingness to talk about his time in politics and tell it as it did transpire is refreshing. The only time he looses me is when he talks of his ideas on solutions specifically the democratisation of corporate decision-making.

Wow, I could listen to Yanis forever. If only all politicians and business men were like this. Educated, reasonable and fair.

First became aware of Yanis in 2015 when Greece economy tanked, such an articulate man where I learn something every time I listen to him. Just wish he was involved in UK politics!

Wow .. even I, an ageing artiste, understand that this man was ahead of his time in Greece, but probably right on the money today. Thank you for introducing us to h8m.🌹🌹

Well done Yanis Yaroufakis. You explain the current world economy situation in a clear and concise manner. I learnt a lot from you. Thanks, mate.

Fascinating ideas. Never looked at Jeff Bezos as the owner of a marketplace collecting rents but this is actually a fascinating idea. And explains in part why China wanted to regain control on tech. And why people should worry when Elon Musk wants to make X a super app. a super app fits so well into this analogy. Anyway, always good to hear ideas from this intelligent man

One of my favourite commentators: a clear, informative and interesting analysis

For everyone asking, the company which he is mentioning is Valve. Yanis started to work for Valve in the Year 2012.

Yanis’ podcast interviews with the likes of Sam Harris and Joe Rogan are always incredibly interesting. Find myself listening several times 👍

Excellent and fascinating interview. I was suggesting the idea of the "users" being shareholders of cloud platforms back in 2014 but I was laughed at and ridiculed. Therefore this interview comforted me somewhat. To hear someone of this calibre explaining the |dire] situation we find ourselves in so succinctly and bringing up that idea as a solution quite took me by surprise. Sharing in the ownership of a cloud platform would not only release enormous sums of capital to the individual but would help solve the coming unemployment crises due to Ai replacing millions of jobs and careers. I really hope Govts start to listen to people like Yanis Varoufakis so we [collectively] can begin to create a more fairer future for our children and grand children. However I don't hold much hope for that ever happening in my lifetime. But if we don't start somewhere, then not only are we going to live in an ever more stronger form of techno feudalism but something even more horrifying, something like a technologically driven totalitarianism of which will be so powerful that any form of individual freedom will be vanquished from civilisation for the foreseeable future. One last thing; the fact that Yanis Varoufakis distrusts Kier Starmer only made me like him even more. When Starmer won the leadership I wrote in a Labour FB group that he was a "spineless fraud and back stabbing traitor who is only it in for himself." Again I was laughed at and ridiculed by the majority people in that group who said: "give him a chance!" Now the same people who ridiculed me are disgusted with him. I don't expect an apology.

Fantastic interview with a fascinating man. I love everything he says and, what’s more, I agree with everything he says

Yannis is full of knowledge, wisdom and intelligence, he’s an academic marvel. It’s so inspiring and educationally satisfying to hear this guy speak and explain complex economic matters in an easy to digest fashion. The firm grasp that he has of the global economic framework from Corporate down to the individual level and its evolution is amazing. I could sense Krishnan was struggling a bit to hang in there as Yannis, opened one interesting door after another on how the global economy has changed and why. I feel we are luckily to have such a gifted educator and intellectual with his heart in the right place. It’s funny to believe he was technically an Essex boy as an undergraduate in the 1980s 😂Not exactly an area of England or finishing school background I envisaged for a world famous economic and political figure. But then maybe my mind is poisoned with the negative ‘chav’ social stereotype of the area that many English people are aware of. These stereotypes can even overshadow the good academic reputation of the universities and institutions in the area and their famous alumni.

Listening to Yanus is so therapeutic and refreshing. I can be a student for his analytical skills.

Just wanted to comment on the exceptional technical quality of this interview. sound quality, lights and colors are just perfect.

Whilst much of what Yanis says makes a lot of sense and is obviously the product of a great deal of thought and contemplation on his part, and i congratulate him for that, He still ends the interview pushing the idea of digital ID as the answer, he wants us to take control of our digital personalities whilst i myself think that the digitization of people is incredibly dehumanizing and a very dangerous tool for malfeasant governments. I love technology and i am certainly not a luddite but i think it is a fatal move for humanity to simply lie back and allow ourselves to be sucked into a non tangible make believe world of ones and zero's. Many people think AI and the digital future is going to save humanity i think it's going to destroy us and those countries and or cultures who decide to step back from it all and maintain their connection with culture and nature and live mainly in the tangible, physical analogue world i.e. The real World, will be the ones that survive

Yanis is the only person making any sense right now. He is truly extraordinary, thank you for the interview Krishnan.

"Why is Capitalism so difficult to understand, Minnie?" "So that we don't, Mickey." 🤔(Green Fire, UK) 🌈🦉

Superb interview and not what I've come to expect from channel4 (or any equivalent). This is the content, that we should be broadcasting to make us think about different ways of seeing the world we are in today. I hope it continues and includes conservative thinkers as well as more like Yanis.

Always a pleasure to listen to Yanis.

'if you're not paying for the product, you are the product' Yanis is a good fella to learn from. no matter if you are right or left. and especially if you are neither right nor left

When Yanis speaks people listen. It is difficult to find capitalism unravelled as expertly as he does in a way that your average person will get - but don't be under any doubt, his intelectualism in the way he explains is superb. Efharisto Yanis.

This kept me watching until the end. Yanis speaks alot of truth, technofeudalism is what we are living in. I think rather then have the central bank create a digital account (that they can track and control) a better solution would be to de-capitalise the banks and turn them into not for profit organisations that help individuals and businesses flourish (which is what we actually need them for).

On top of Yanis excellent ideas, I'd tax corporations on global group profit and global assets on a sliding scale but with punitive top rates for the biggest companies, tax global wealth similarly, and apply additional taxes to companies that specialise in fossil fuels, weapons and advertising/data (social media and online markets). We need a global arms race on tax of the most wealthy. The power of corporate monopolies needs to be broken.

Thanks to Yanis I am cancelling my social media, including his RU-vid videos.

Thanks for another lovely analysis of the current situation. I like personal transport and hope to retain access to it for as long as possible. Keep the faith mate.

100% agree with this fella. Does he have a podcast anywhere?

This is a quality take by Yanis

Yanis has a wonderful understanding of history and our mental state and our place in context. Brother welcome 🙏.

Wow, 5 minutes in but it is super late and I have an early morning - I look forward to finishing this talk and seeing more from Yanis.

I LIKE YANIS HE'S STRAIGHT FORWARD AND TELL THE TRUTH.

Excellent interview. So well informed. Thank-you

Mr Varoufakis is so brilliant, noble Greek man

The divide between work and “play” has been dissipated. You talk to anyone and either the things they viewed as hobbies or interests have been transformed into side hustles to generate capital or they have cut out relaxation, hobbies, and interests to maximize their time usage for capital

At the beginning of the pandemic, I started thinking about this subject when reading Shoshana Zuboff's book. But what caught my attention most was the other aspect of this new feudalism. In the feudal period, especially in William the Conqueror's England, society was completely divided. The nobles of Norman origin who had power over the land spoke a different language from the language spoken by the feudal servants. The owners of Big Techs master a very special language, which is that of the algorithms that empower their platforms and that cannot be seen by users when they are extracting data, refining profiles and distributing targeted advertising. The common language that platform users use is economically irrelevant, because wealth is produced and accumulated through that other background language that is the private property of techno-feudal lords.

This guy is one of the greatest minds in the world right now

A brilliant thesis, articulated in a coherent (if somewhat reductive fashion) by a humanitarian and intellectual. The fine distinction between the rent-generating economy of the internet (and cloud service platforms) vs earlier generations of capitalism , is remarkable & important for understanding the direction of the global economy. And it already up-levels the discussions from the simplistic, and often reductive/inaccurate debates of the "America is capitalist, China is communist" kind.

For anyone wondering what company he worked for. It's Valve.