Yanis Varoufakis: why Britain must stay in Europe | Guardian Live 

+Vern Etzel You need to get a brain first.

Is your country smaller than Qatar? Smaller than the UAE, Singapore, New Zealand or Israel? You don't have to be large to be great. Your "tiny" country ruled the world, and were bloody good at it! Your country's leadership ensured the economical growth and success of the collective Commonwealth nations. Your country has, and continues to, produce the worlds best intellects, and you're afraid that you can't stand on your own two feet? Why? Why would you allow people so disconnected from you that they hold no emotional attachment to your personal sentiments, dictate the laws that you must live by? Our ancestors fought, many to their deaths, for the simple, basic right to govern themselves. To live by the rules that they decide on and the rules that best suits them, the people. Remember, should you vote to stay in the EU, the opportunity to leave will probably never return. Your nation will of had too much invested in it. It is always easy to join the EU, never easy to leave.

Don't underestimate the British. I'm not worried for them, I am more concerned about the prospects of the common people whose nations are still part of the EU...

Hmmm The sheer arrogance is incredible. Yes, because we did some impressive things we can surely separate from a massive economy without a shred of difficulty. Surely no businesses will leave the country. Surely no damage will be done to our finances. Surely we can just ignore all the rules. Wake up and face reality. Most likely we will simply join the EEA, meaning we face all the same rules and fees, but have no say on policy decisions. That's less sovereignty, not more.

stathamajf: Life is about more than economy. Besides, you don't know the future. Britain may find many other partners. The world is much larger than only the EU (which may shrink more in the coming weeks, months and years).

Daniel G I generally dislike plans which have words like "you never know" or "might" in them. Maybe you have money to burn but I don't and that makes this whole thing kinda like Westminster deciding to gamble with my life for me.

+Placeholder Come on: 1) We absolutely have that right - our nation was built on the giving away (or losing) of national sovereignty over roughly 1000 years by various smaller fiefdoms and minor states, as well in some cases on the claims of national sovereignty made by certain enemies upon minor fiefdoms held by English/Norman kings (i.e. quite large parts of France). That is, the borders and populous of our present nation were decided by a constant gaining and losing of political areas up until around 1997 - the last instance of a loss of land area by the UK government of which I am aware, which may be followed by others in future. 2) Absolutely we are temporary residents of a land area, but this has nothing to do with where the government of that land area is located, nor what people have a say in the governance of where we were born. As I note in point 1, the location of government, and the areas of land from which the people of our nation are collected, have changed drastically over the last 1,000 years, and will change again. It is you who propose a halt to history. 3) We are offering up the foundation laid by those former generations, who as you say admirably protected and passed on our national tradition, to a wider democratic forum. To the extent that we are not doing so (i.e. that European leaders are not democratically elected by the people of Europe) we are adding the voice of a powerful democratic body into what should become the new Great Reform, the 21st Century's 1832 (or better, 1928) - a genuinely democratic Europe, with leaders elected in Brussels as representatives of all of the people of Europe, while, in keeping with the principles of devolution, those powers which are best held locally are still held locally by the people they affect. However, laws whose implications are general, and whose aim is to bring people into a common moral agreement (such as laws of criminal justice), must be decided at the highest democratic level possible. The preponderance of France and Germany within Europe must be fought in the same way that the excessive power of the land-holding classes was fought in 1832 in the UK - at the level of democracy.

+Simon Whitaker Why would Britain want to leave? By staying in, they can extort whatever they want from Europe every few years with the threat of leaving.

+Placeholder Why would Britain want to leave? By staying in, they can extort whatever they want from Europe every few years with the threat of leaving.

+C06 Kll4r What is this thousand year old foundation you speak of?

+C06 Kll4r What is a nation? does it include the Empire? India, Burma, parts of Africa. We need to be talking about the future. How wealth can be divided equally. Absolute control in the form of Communism did not work and now 30 years later Capitalism is in its death throws. What is next? I suggest a closer Europe is a good thing and it is those that do what they do for Fiat currency that need to be eliminated. Less money. more wealth.

+David Matley the hatred of the eu by the uk, is the uk version of the usa's hatred of free healthcare

thanks, I appreciate it

What about chaos first all over Europe and then globally . Think ahead

+Feminazi Frequency Economic freedoms are not freedoms of the individual. Trade freedoms are irrelevant next to HR. Economics is a tool not an ideology - it adapts.

+ItsameAlex Interesting. How?

We've given all the life boats to the likes of Greece

can I sit next to you on that boat ..top coment

By life boats do you mean the bailouts?

+Mufflemonsta009 yes but for me that links to something else

and the EU is sinking or will

+111q222p333m444z The US has a constitution. Does the EU have a constitution? Frankly I find it disingenuous when people use the US to compare the rag tag hinging together of European countries all who come with very different languages, histories and cultures. These are nations NOT states, the EU was first presented to the public as a trade agreement not a superstate under one flag. Try selling Americans the idea of subverting their own rules and authority so they can be linked to Mexico, Canada and Central America with open borders and all and see how that flies then give them some vague talk of expanding "democracy and human rights". The EU isn't really working now. How many members of the public know the name of the EU president? Or the European Council president? And then ask them what they know of them and if they've voted for them. Ask them what mechanism do they have at their disposal to affect change within the EU? Ask them if the laws that governs their nation should be imposed on people who have a different, language and culture in another nation? Is this your idea of a workable democracy? The political establishment may be in favor of a closer union but the question is whether their citizens are in favor, that is what I mean by 'democracy'. The EU HAS NOT made democracy and human rights their "main thing", its economic arrangements that have been their main thing. The talk of democracy and human rights is part of their sneaking in the superstate or is it that you think the British people need lessons in "human rights and democracy"? What about France? Or Greece? Was there no democracy and human rights in these nations before the EU? Don't you think citizens have a right to decide whether they should lose their country or not in favor of melting theirs into a greater one? Because that's what we're talking about here. Read Sunday Express article titled "Britain will vote to leave EU unless there is substantial treaty change". In that article you will find the paragraph "French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel cooked up the controversial deal, which rules out any EU treaty changes, behind closed doors without consulting Britain." Is that the kind of democracy you're referring to? What does the UK want from the EU to remain in the EU? More power for national parliaments over EU decisions. Safeguard countries outside the single currency to protect them from being outvoted by Eurozone bloc. Restrict the rights of EU migrants claiming UK benefits. An opt-out from the “ever-closer union”. In short England wants her sovereignty back!!!!

+111q222p333m444z The thing is, nothing is completely democratic. Countries that have (or claim to have) democracy, mostly aren't. It extends as far as who they have as leader, but the citizens don't get to decide the rules or which laws we keep or don't keep (obviously, laws such as those agaisnt murder should be exempt from being removed). The country closest to this is Switzerland, but even then, it's only marginally more democratic.

+Anon Ymous And what about sovereignty? England wants her sovereignty back! And no one asked Britons whether they wanted to relinquish it in favor of a superstate. You're dismissal of democracy because it isn't 'perfect' is disturbing.

joanofarc33 Please, point out exactly where I dismissed democracy and claimed it isn't and should be perfect. Quote me. Your interpritation of my comment and your apparent lack of cognitive ability are disturbing.

+Anon Ymous And why are you insulting me? I didn't insult you I just pointed out that you seem to dismiss democracy because as you wrote "It extends as far as who they have as leader, but the citizens don't get to decide the rules or which laws we keep or don't keep", this suggests that democracy isn't worth fighting for. Otherwise why did you write the post where you say nothing except how democracy doesn't truly exist? And instead of using ad hominem as a means of argument, why not try answering my question which concerned sovereignty. "What about sovereignty?" Greece has lost her sovereignty by becoming nothing more than a debtor nation who cannot even dictate what economic plans are viable or not within the nation state without an ok from Brussels. So where is Greek sovereignty? It no longer exists. Greek parliamentarians can only legislate what the Troika deems appropriate no matter the wishes, desires nor inclination of the Greek people. Just go and read an article by Reuters called "Greek sovereignty to be massively limited." The first paragraph reads "Greece faces severe restrictions on its sovereignty and must privatize STATE ASSETS on a scale similar to the SELL OFF of East German firms in the 1990s after communism fell, Eurogroup chairman Jean-Claude Juncker said". Juncker is now EU president. Did the Greeks vote for Juncker? Did anyone from the citizenry? The EU public at large? And yet he said "The sovereignty of Greece will be MASSIVELY limited". So what does that make of the Greek nation then? It means there is no 'real' Greek nation only a punished colony of the EU superstate and I can say this because Greece nor its people have any power within the EU. At least in the US the citizens can say they know and voted for whatever president. England has a right to her sovereignty, the EU is means to dismantle sovereignty. If a nation CHOOSES to dismantle national sovereignty in favor of a superstate then fine but they should decide that through a referendum. They should KNOW that this is what is meant by "union" and not some pretense of an economic liberalization between nation states. You dismiss democracy when you claim it has no agency as an ideal because "nothing is completely democratic", and yet no one here is talking about complete democracy as the goal but rather whether the EU is democratic ENOUGH for a proud nation such as the UK.

He speaks English better than most English people.

Tony Benn!

+Totalwarking7 you are an idiot john

+Totalwarking7 LOL what a joker . obviously not ENGLISH

I'm english

I'm not joking

+DJFear Ross revolution unfortunately I am strongly starting to suspect

+DJFear Ross The EU Commission, in common with all other totalitarian organisations, cannot admit to failure. Likewise where ever there is a set back, for example a national group not voting according to plan, the central authority will either ignore the set back or order the errant nation to vote again. The Commission demands all of the accolades, even where unmerited but deflects any and all criticism - such is it's nature. We are told the UK can keep the pound - yet the 'Euro' will be the currency of the whole EU by 2020? The EU is not heading for super state status, yet the leitmotif is "Ever Closer Union"

Jinji Tronic Hahahahahaha take it from Australia. We’re still affected by all this bulls**t. Maybe not to the same effect. Most of our politicians are incompetent and/or corrupt

I've listened to the same debate. Very interesting. The European Union comes out as extremely corrupt. I just don't understand how he can argue to stay in

Interesting Naran. Is that an educated guess or just a guess?. It it more likely that other EU nations will want out soon. France? Netherlands?

obviously bought and paid for

***** Ha ha - really? So you're from Andorra? Where all Spain's corrupt money goes :) I have to say I think Spain will go down the tubes before the UK - EU or no EU. I'm sure you'll be ok though

The only reason they want to stay in (even though a majority voted out) is because they get money from us!

how would that work when 90% of the global fisheries are in collapse?

You don't even have good fish, Norway is probably the most important cod exporter, everything they catch they sell, that's it, the rest is for internal consumption if that much, so STFU with the fishing thing, no one wants British fish, why would one want it? Plus there is a real need for limits on fishing and this limits are actually working, this year, fishermen finally have an abundance of fish that they hadn't have for decades because of the limits.

+noooreally well since we will have control of our own waters you simply have no fishing zones that will allow fish stocks to increase but you also allow all fish caught to be landed since they are dead anyway. also you do not allow very deep fishing as deep sea fish are long lived by don't regenerate quickly. Essentially you manage the thing in a sustainable way

Morgan Wasem you don't have control of the deep waters though... and there are a lot more problems than just over fishing... one of the biggest problems is ocean acidification. Fishing is not a viable option... If the UK has to compete with other countries outside the EU, it will have to decimate its fishing stocks to compete.

Well it won't be competing it will just fish sustainably in it own waters. After world war 2 the fish sticks were the best ever. They simply stopped fishing so much. As to ocean acidification don't really know enough about it however seems to me this is an issue that is outside of the scope of the common fisheries policy.

Good! Vote leave!

perr and rays, ie perrays troika

+Irene Theochari He already offered some reasons in other statements why he wouldn't do it. First... obviously he felt sort of betrayed, but why answer betrayal with further betrayal? Remember that they are friends and politically close. He's always warned that leftists have the tendency to turn on each other, so this is precisely what should not be encouraged to be done since the only ones profiting from that are the right. This doesn't mean that there shouldn't be criticism and lively debate, but why do the work of the "enemy"? You already mentionned one of the "enemies". There should lie the focus. ;)

JecaMasha I agree with everything you say but none of what you describe is from Tsipras' point of view! Yes, Varoufakis felt betrayed by Tsipras, as did the people, but why did Tsipras betray the people? Why did he decide to accept the new bailout conditions even before the people had voted to reject them. More importantly, why did he not reverse his decision AFTER the people voted to reject the bailout? He, as the Prime Minister, had a moral and democratic duty to act on the people's mandate, especially bearing in mind that the Greek government had some ammunition, as Varoufakis described! Not to mention Tsipras' original election promise to refuse further bailouts and restructure the debt. He did irreparable damage not only to Greece but any European anti-austerity movement. Worst of all, he squandered a genuine opportunity to introduce much-needed reform of the European economic and political system!

Irene Theochari I share your concerns, but in the end... we can't do it alone. Lets hope our allies abroad (even if it is for their own reasons) join the fight ;)

JecaMasha Again, I understand what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing. In the larger European context he could not have done it alone but you're missing the point! Alexis Tsipras absolutely had it in his purview to not only rescue his Country but be instrumental in forcing change and making precedent. Instead he capitulated even before the referendum and he did not act in accordance with the resounding, landslide mandate brought by the referendum. If you know of any instance when Varoufakis has addressed this point, I'd like to know!

+Irene Theochari ''...don't know why Tsipras, even before the referendum, had decided to capitulate...' 1:03:03 into this video might help ' yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/10/19/democratising-europe-and-academic-freedom-university-of-coimbra-17th-october-2015 www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/14/greek-parliament-still-thrashing-out-rescue-deal-vote lexicon.ft.com/Term?term=troika In October 2013 it was reported that the Troika had challenged Greece over a looming fiscal gap in its 2014 budget that could undermine its chances of emerging from a six-year recession.The Troika wanted Greece to adopt further austerity measures after identifying the €2bn gap.Earlier in October 2013, the The Troika rejected Portugal's plea to relax deficit targets.In April 2013, Ireland lifted legal ban on house repossessions, a move that was sought by the Troika. www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/14/greek-parliament-still-thrashing-out-rescue-deal-vote about 1:03:03 into this video yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/10/19/democratising-europe-and-academic-freedom-university-of-coimbra-17th-october-2015

Because a collapse of the EU would end in an economic depression. And that means, you earn the same but everything will be 2 or 3 times as expensive. Or even worse.

i agree. i wondered why the fack he is making this speech when he bashes the EU and what happened to greece in a video with Noam Chomsky.. that was a great video.. this one is a disappointment

Tyler I know... I feel sorry for the Greeks

Sara V Well, i'm a bit sceptical of the alternative media, since they offer nationalism as a solution. A solution that is needed in order to start a war between nations. I read so many anti-german comments lately. About germans who are to blame for the refugees, who are to blame for the economic crisis, about the germans, building a 4th Reich through the EU. The simple facts, that it was the wars in the middle east, fought by the USA and GB, that made the refugee crisis, that 70% of the german industry is owned by foreign, that it is the city of London, that is in charge of many destructiv Actions against poorer EU countries, and that germans don't want to controll Europe, that this is the work of supra national cooperations, is totaly lost in all medias. Alternative or not. I feel, like we have a huge focus of the problems, but almost none of a solution. I am afraid, the anger of the people is triggert out of purpose, and the alternative media works as an amplifier. "Something is rotten in the state of denmark." But sure, i'll check it out! Thanks!

The Greeks did that to themselves, they were living beyond their means. Now they are blaming the foreigners just like us in the UK.

We are leaving.

Vote leave!

+gpw203 rubbish ,there was no failure on his part. every move and statement made by yannis demonstrated competence and integrity.

+gpw203 he is touring acting as a whistle blower who can speak about EU corruption as he has first hand experience of it and you want to smear his integrity on the basis that he has not given all his money away? lol seriously? why are you so angry at Y V? would your anger not be better directed at the other members of Syriza you know the ones who ignored their mandate from the Greek people and betrayed both Yannis and every man,woman and child in Greece and actually throughout the EU?

The current President of the European Council is Donald Tusk. The current President of the European Commission is Jean-Claude Juncker. The current President of the European Parliament is Martin Schulz. The rotating President of the Council of the European Union is Mark Rutte, on behalf of the Netherlands. None of these presidents are Yannis Varoufakis. I take it you're voting out?

It was a joke pal relax.

Thank you my friend. There used to be a time when government set forth policy and corporations toed the line. Today Corporations set the agenda and governments must toe the line. The whole debt load on current government balance sheets can be pin pointed to the tax breaks and tax cuts to the corporations. SHAME!

corporations shouldn't exist, the privat sector needs to be abolished

Isn't sole purpose of Brits is putting sticks into wheels of Unified Europe? Waiting for 3 years before opening second front in WW2, Brexit, seeding controllable chaos throughout the world?

He's a man who served as Greece's Finance Minister, went to Brussels with a solid 'oxi' from his electorate to renegotiate the terms of the bailout, and came back having to sell his people a 'nai'. He's a failure, a fraud.

Vulpes Inculta You sound like a profligate, I am going to report you to Caesar. Let's see what he says about that! He did all he could and was always pushed against the wall. He went with open to negotiate and only found the door shut and intransigence. In fact he left the government because he thought that there was no alternative but to leave the Euro, he wanted to leave. But this was a big no no for Syriza. So he had to leave. The differences with his party and EU commission were incompatible.

Teralek The question, then, is why he defends this European Union.

you are a Frumentarii of Caesar legion you should know that a big empire is stronger and better than a lot of small kingdoms with many voices all competing to be heard. I am an European Federalist just like Varoufakis for the same reasons. When I explains why he defends the Union I totally agree with him. Like me he also urges a reformation of the union to be more democratic and accountable to the people of Europe. We must see ourselves as part of the same body, the same voice. The EU united is a forced to reckoned with. We need a national and powerful EU sentiment because there are is much more that unite us than what divide us. We need a strong a binding union like Caesar's legion.

Teralek As you may remember, there are certain commitments that you have to make if you want a great empire. - You have to massacre all the men and boys of national groups that resist your rule. No exceptions. - You have to institute horrifying punishments for petty crimes, because people who have fewer social ties to the authorities will be more likely to commit crimes. - You have to have a strong military, and a culture that glorifies strength and beauty (instead of weakness and ugliness, which is what Europe's cultures glorify today). Unless you are willing to make those commitments, your empire's going to turn into a poorly-administrated, corrupt mess like the NCR.

You agree with Kalergi?

Debt cancellation will never happen.

I see you've been reading David Graeber

I agree. Bankers in the jail. Take the money back

Debt cancellation is to say that you will do something and just do not do it. You will lost your word like Argentina.

+Rob Bowes Probably got paid off by the EU elite

why the NSA though? lol it would make just as much sense if you said the CIA or the IMF or even the US Government instead....

Knowledge is power. Following Toffler (mail001.blogspot.ro/2011/11/third-wave.html) I logically conclude that NSA is controlling the planet. Of course, this is only an argument.

And they did not negotiate. With no eurozone exit threat, there could have been no negotiation. Now, the important part. Why would an eurozone exit have been so unspeakable threatening?

Very good questions..Yanis sold out to the Globalist Cabbal...

He has answered this. To print enough Greek Currency and prepare for independence would take 9 to 12 months. During that period the ECB, IMF, World Bank etc would cease all lending and shut down all the Greek banks, utterly destroying Greece in a matter of weeks.

Hes a shill. Hes promoting staying in a undemocratic political union with a stagnant economy on the hope of reform and change. Hes peddling fairydust, there will be no reform of the EU.

So why vote to stay on the basis of a dream that will never be fulfilled?

Did he mention that, by appointing Juncker, it was a public endorsement of Federalism by the leaders of 26 member states, and that reform would not be possible before the UK referendum (although, ironically and frustratingly, it may unavoidable because of Brexit)

Greece.

Sure they have been robbed, too.

I agree it always worth listening too his opinions.

+Descartes' Donkey In that case its no one's responsibility. Because its not Spain's nor Italian's responsibility either.

+gottimw I am Portugal. What if we all get together and sort this thing out? Together we can and we want the same!. Not doing it because of a childish tantrum is stupid. We want the same thing so lets force the change

thats my exactly point

+Teralek BUT! They depend on the inability to transcend borders to non governmental individuals - we don't have the time , money and orgainisations . Governments only feed governments not the people.

0.6% - in a way he actually did. Perhaps a few hundred votes would have done it for him. Zeig baby!

+liar liarliar totally agree with your first sentence. How can he possibly recommend we stay in?

+liar liarliar It's way easier to turn your back on something rather than putting an effort into salvaging what good exists. Do we not all share the common goal of improving or at the very least maintaining our nations for the generations to come? Ensuring the peace of tomorrow? Give our politicians a chance to push for substantial change and reform within the EU before everything goes up in smoke? Leaving will only bring us back to where we are now down the line. Question is how many wars will be fought in-between. The EU was never meant to be more than a trade-agreement. There are no democratic protocols or processes set in stone to follow by whoever we send as representatives. We've failed miserably to pick up on this while expanding and learning that we actually aren't that different from each other. Feel free to piss that away if that's your opinion but I completely agree with Varoufakis. We need to consolidate and salvage the situation while we still can instead of wasting years of mutual benefits and experiences. Leaving each to their own is a recipe for disaster as it will eventually come bite you in the butt one way or another. Not every nation will come out for the better from a crisis seeing when the number of unemployed, desperate and frustrated people gets big enough fascist movements gain traction and form governments. We truthfully are capable of the most astonishing things while also being our own worst enemies at the same time.

+Alexander “Alex” Kjeldsen "Question is how many wars will be fought in-between" Why do you presume leaving the EU will lead to war? Or that the creation of the EU was responsible for preventing X number of wars? It's like there's some magical theory where you have a club and not being a member of a club means you have to have a war. Of course such a theory is total nonsense.

Our elected and once sovereign parliament is ruled over by a central committee that styles itself the EU commission. The same committee rules over the so-called EU Parliament, which in reality is a powerless talking shop whose functions are to rubber stamp the decisions of the central committee, and to permit we plebs the illusion of an input into the process. The calculated cynicism of this illustrates the true regard for democracy within the EU. If we stay in this ghastly club, the annihilation of democracy will only deepen and solidify as the EU superstate reaches it's intended conclusion, whereby Britain, along with other former nation states will be reduced to mere regions, and the super national government will become ever more remote and unaccountable. And if you don't have the wit to see where this will lead, I pity you. All of this might not be quite so bad if the thing actually worked. But it doesn't. The Euro is a disaster. It has wrought economic destruction across southern Europe, and is the direct cause of the rise of the far right in the south of Europe. Uncontrolled borders and and resultant mass migration has opened the door to criminals, terrorists and massive social dislocation (that will probably end in civil uprising) and is the cause of the rise of the far right in northern Europe. EU bureaucracy is irredeemably corrupt, to the point where billions are stolen each year. The EU enjoys the worst annual growth of any major global region over many years, and it's share of world economic activity shrinks concurrently. Britain by contrast, has unequalled connections of language, culture kith and kin across the entire globe, yet we cannot exploit any of these advantages because our foreign trade policy is controlled by the EU. The left opposes nationalism and supports internationalism. This has led many on the left to support the EU, but the EU is not internationalist, it is globalist, it's determination to inflict the ghastly TPP treaty on us, along with the culpable destruction of Greece is clear evidence of this. The EU is a stalking horse for global corporate capital, posing as a social/economic organisation. It is obvious that the EU is in bed with the very trans-national corporate entities that constitute the most prescient threat to human and planetary well-being. How can anyone talk of reforming such a monstrosity? Clear thinkers on the left are beginning to see the truth of this. UKIP have always known it, yet have undergone a 20 year barrage of name calling for daring to say so. Now we have such luminaries as George Galloway sharing a platform with them. Does this mean that Galloway has moved to the right? Of course not. Galloway is simply an intelligent socialist who can see that the EU promises no good to working people. Nigel Farrage is an intelligent conservative who has always known it. There are growing numbers from across the political spectrum who can see the truth of a declining and dangerous EU. If enough of us do likewise, then we will escape back into the wider world, where we will once again be a sovereign democratic nation, with an international outlook and excellent economic prospects. Or we can stay in a declining EU, with it's ever centralising power structure and increasingly fascistic tendencies. The choice, therefore, is simple: take the path of fear and diminish our nation into some sad little region of the EU empire, or grasp our courage and shoot for the sunlit uplands of prosperity, vitality and freedom!

+Alexander “Alex” Kjeldsen WRONG. The EU was always meant to be about political integration and the building of a Uinted states of europe. Jean Monnet said “Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.” Winston Churchill tales about a United states of europe as well but said britain should stay outside it. Even the first EU treaty the treaty of Rome says things to this effect. A common market is a good idea in my view which is what the British thought they were voting for in 1975 but the EU is not what the British want to be a part of.

And that's not to mention our weapons...

hopefully the English can vote on the Scottish referendum then they'll get their independence

+Seena Kakar Why? What does Britain have that Europe needs?

+Uno G business

+Uno G a decent economy and currency, a commonwealth, actual democracy

"An actual democracy'? Where a party can win government with 30% of the vote!

+Uno G there are quite a few other parties that spread out the vote but seeing as it is our own parliament at least we can do more there to try and sort it out if needed