YES! You CAN build $5000 HiFi Speakers for UNDER $500 DIY vs HiFi 

I don't, nobody twisted their arms. Barnum was 100% correct.

Agreed

@@hino823 it's a pair. Just like the costs I was figuring.

You can't just add up the cost of materials and say that it's overpriced. You know how much the wood of a great violin costs? Next to nothing. You pay for the craftsmanship and the amazing sound that is able to be achieved because of the skill and technical prowess of the maker. Similarly, great speakers are designed and engineered. And sometimes knowledge and know-how is passed along and developed. these are some to the things that you pay for - other peoples time, energy, work, inspiration. Goes WAY more than cost of materials. There's also the cost of marketing, paying workers/benefits, rent, machinery, etc....This is just scratching the surface!

@@777galamian You assume that I am ignorant. I assure you that I am not.

You are absolutely correct. Some HiFi brands are much better value.

Yeah, that's actually proper hifi and not a money grab like this tiny company who's using random shit in their bookshelves.

That's kinda what I just built but a little different design I raised the woofer more near the middle of enclosure and I ended raising them off the floor by 2" I also bought the crossover already made from Dayton it my first speaker build and I didn't really think much about i just ordered some parts from Dayton audio and I made a really nice 2 way I wish I added a mid range it's sounds really clear and deep with bass from the 10" woofer and I'm really happy considering I got the wood for free the components cost around $150 and I have a pair of speakers better than anything than anything close to that price let's put it that way they sound great and I can't wait to build my next project because I did no research I just guessed lol

Hey @chandlerlofton6536, have you had experience with other speakers? I wonder how the Torii’s compare to some other common speakers to get an idea of what they are like.

I don't buy it. That's for companies that can either demand it, or they're so clueless they're going for a killing because they really don't expect to be around. For instance, I recently purchased Klipsch the Fives for $550. There's no way the parts are only $55. Two woofers, two tweeters, class d amps, dsp board, all included. Plus I can adjust the eq on my phone app.

@@thunderpooch I think it is scaling with the base price. It might go from factor 3-5 up to 10 with increasing selling price. I think in your example going for 100-130$ parts price would be rather ok. Look up what a woofer cost. Sometimes not more than 10-15$. All parts will be very "on edge" in this price range.

No it’s 5x. 10x is only for elitism products like Ferrari or Gucci.

@@thunderpooch This is due to the small sales volume of high-end hi-fi products. If they sold in larger volume, they could support a lower price, but because high-end hi-fi is a smaller and more artisanal industry, in order to make enough money to sustain the costs of running a business, including making the product; that $500 in materials doesn't even cover the labor to manufacture/build the product, so if you start with $500 and expect to invest nothing else of value into the product, such as labor, know-how, and engineering effort, you're going to be left with a pile of parts that don't make sound. Also keep in mind that the distributor wants to make 20-50 points of margin, and the retailer won't even show the product for less than 50 points, and those add a huge amount to the final selling price.

But this is only in theory that one could build a 5000 dollar speaker for 500. One also has to have the skill and craftsmanship to do it. Some speakers are simple boxes with bracing and wrapped in veneer - yeah that’s not very hard and most people could do this. However, the more exotic designs using real hardwood, like the Boenicke’s, would take real fine woodworking and would require very expensive tools and machinery to accomplish. This is why the Boenicke is a terrible example of DIY. Until I see Joe Shmoe do it, I’m calling bs on this one.

All these "boutique" speaker manufacturers using 10 dollar woofers. Crazy.

You're right. Designing a speaker can take a lot of time and effort. And if you don't know what you're doing, that's one of the great ways to start with a kit or plans. Allow someone else to do that work for you. But the video does show you, what a lot of people know already, a well-designed DIY plan can rival that of the same value store-bought brand.

@@Toid the speakers you've shown have a complex form internally, so yes, you can buy the components at said price, but Alas Building the same enclosure with normal of the shelf components is very complicated and most likely Will cost a lot in specialized equipment...

Thank you, I did not come across that in my research. I appreciate that. I knew they tweaked the woofers, so it makes sense they also tweaked the tweeter.

@@Toid - check out Ron's review from New Record Day- thorough review, interesting details

@@randylneisen4824 thank you for finding and sharing this information other than just saying "it is so".

I owned the W5se for 5 years and deeply regret selling them.

Yes, let's see you actially build one or a pair.

wait till you get into amplifiers the prices are even worse in the home hifi market

@@shangrilaladeda I have started with a Yamaha receiver which run my Omni directional om-7s and paradigm 5.1set up meaning I can run a 7.1set up but I prefer stereo. I find the om7 paired with the dinas run well together and the bass is crisp and tight and the mids and vocals are very crisp

@@orange9807 that’s cool to know, I use a pc with an asus essence stx ii 7.1 sound card one of the best for a reasonable price to get good audio out of pc, running from rca to xlr to a behringer DI 100 to convert a unbalanced connection into a balanced connection than into a mackie m 48 phantom power supply so the behringer direct box gets power. The amps I am using are all crown models 2 xls 1502 one in bridged mode and 1 xls 2502 along with a xti 6002, I do want to upgrade them all to an xti 2002 for the bridged amp and 4002 for the other 2 xls, now the xls 2502 I want to bi amp my Cerwin Vega xls so the 2502 will be on bass duty for class d is best for bass. I also have a klipsch rp 250c which I recently replaced the drivers to all ds-18 going from 125 watts to over 1000 watts the drivers are 2 DS18 PRO-FR5NEO Loudspeaker- 5.25", Full-Range, Silver Aluminum Bullet, 400W Max, 200W RMS, 4 Ohms and 1 DS18 PRO-TWX6 1.5" Super Bullet Tweeter 600 Watts 4-Ohm which sound much louder than what klipsch has used. I also have 2 peavey 115 running in parallel with the Cerwin Vega xls 215s, I do want to upgrade the drivers in the peavy to black widows also the tweeter I want to replace. I want to replace the drivers in all of my speakers I have some Bose 301 which have an 8 inch and 2 two inch tweeters I can have some fun with those drivers for sure. I also have a Cerwin Vega CVX-21s and and Cerwin Vega ELHDP 18 inch subwoofer. The woofers which are professional models sound the best in my whole system besides the ds-18 upgrade. After I replace all the drivers I am going to build new crossovers for all the speakers except the subwoofers they both are self amplified and together they both put out around 6000 watts in bass. After I upgrade all of my drivers my mids, highs and tweeters will all be able to keep up with my subwoofers for 6000 watts can be overpowering for sure. Also know that all the Bose 301 are 2 together running in parallel, so most of my loads on the amplifiers are 4 ohms and lower which is great for my amplifiers since they aren’t rated to run anything higher than 8 ohms so lower the ohms the better for my amplifiers. Listening to music is a great hobby and I like for everyone to hear what I’m listening too 😁

Definitive Technology has been doing this for years now. Take a look at any of their speakers with powered subwoofers and they all should have this on them. It's an interesting concept, but definitely can be fickle to placement.

@@Toid, thanks for info. It was an interesting installation of twetters on the back of the cabinet. It sounds similar to Bose concept that you are going to listen to sound coming to you in a theatre. A direct sound plus reflected sound coming to your ears later. I'm pretty sure it's fickle to locate those tweeters in the back of the cabinet. But I'm impressed. Unfortunately, youtube videos didn't have any audio samples I could hear. Pity.😁

@@spritual_enlightenment I used to actually own some definitive technology towers that had some in them. I believe definitive technology recommended at least three feet from the back wall. But positioning and distance from the back wall and outside walls is really key to how they sounded.

@@Toid, I see. Thank U for additional info. Very appreciated.

When you have to spend more than 100 bucks on a crossover, why not just use dsp? Dsp can do everything a crossover does and also makes your speaker sound it's best in any room.

But then I won't be able to use my $10,000 amp...

For a more expensive speaker a dsp based amp/active design could be an advantage - especially if it is a more than 2 way design. For a cheap speaker the cost for DSP/amp are a bit too high. A good 2 channel DSP board will go >300€? Maybe even more. Don't think that you could get something really good (high endy sounding) for 100€ or less... Even with a DSP - it needs some experience and measuement tooling to get everything right. Not only the crossover frequencies must be ok, all the timing between the drivers must be right.

Do it. You can get the drivers on ebay

Oh yeah I think something like that could definitely be accomplished

How where the highs?

Yes there are: toidsdiyaudio.com/product/dinas-passive-do-i-need-a-subwoofer/

Those are nice. I do love those speakers. If I ever regret selling a speaker, those would probably be the ones. Of course, I could just remake them :) And when I build my outdoor theater...I will.

Oak would work well for a project like this

It's hard to answer that without knowing where it is going in the circuit and what is being used for. Most of the time getting as close to is better. So in this case a six. But what would be even better is if you could find a small resistor like a 0.5-0.7 and run that in series with the 5.1ohm. or some combination like a 2.2 and a 3.5 in series to equal a total of 5.7 ohm.

@@Toid thank you ! I'm Recapping my speakers . I've been watching your videos trying to understand. I think it was " How to design a 3 way crossover" "oh" 10uf capacitor + 5.7 resistor. for high mids , and high lows . Polk audio monitor 70 series 2 loudspeakers. It's on there schematic.thank you again I didn't know I could do that.

Yeah those fe85 are pretty good for the price

You can talk more about it on the Forum: toidsdiyaudio.com/forums/discussion/diy-vs-hifi-can-you-save-thousands/

At first I thought these things must have used DSP to get the results, but I see they are passively crossed with good old fashioned resistors, coils, and caps... I'm with you there. I can't imagine any woofer in a modern speaker not needing SOME kind of filter, whether it be a LR, LRC, or whatever just to flatten out the response a bit, not to mention roll it off to the full-range Fountek driver. I've used the TB W5 several times, as well as the Peerless (sub)woofer Nick mentioned in the newer version (they both model VERY close to each other bass-extension wise by the way) but as good as they both are, I feel they would need at least a few parts thrown at them in order to have a flat-ish response. I'll hold my thoughts on the rear tweeter as like you said, that may be part of the 'unique' experience that this speaker brings. Plus I haven't heard them, so any judgement I have can only be so valid. Also, I feel that the enclosure is on the small side to be getting the full extension out of either the TB or the Peerless; by the time you use a few cubic inches for the fullrange driver and take away the volume for the TB or Peerless woofer, there isn't much volume left in there... But as long as it gives the "Harmonisation included" and "proprietary acoustic phase linearisation network" that we all long for, I guess it's cool. :) Man, are those 'selling points' or made-up words? They are very attractive speakers, though, even if they just named them after the TB woofer (W5) :) Geesh, I hope I didn't sound too negative there, they might actually sound half-decent; as I said, I have never heard them... Still, I have a feeling that Nick could best the sound of those Boenicke speakers in the same size with one hand tied behind his back.

It looks like a design choice based on initial product cost and warranty cost. Thousands of low power speakers ship without any kind of LP filter. Basically the rated power isn't enough to cause any kind of physical issues in the woofer. I've heard a few which sound ok, a couple that sounded really good too. Nothing there goes bad over time, nothing much to repair. On the other hand, I've repaired a few hundred speakers with crappy inductors!

@@zarboaudioprojects1430 I saw a graph on some forum, and yes, the woofer is over-damped as you suggested. Treble is exaggerated too and inbetween, in the mids, there's the Appalachians, as I suggested... I don't know how the measurement came about other than being from some Gеrman language magazine. I haven't heard the speaker myself as well. Thus I spare you final judgement. I hope Toid will actually build (or present) them and maybe make some improvements.

@@vikassm Okay, but can you elaborate on the failure mode of an inductor? A properly dimensioned one, that is. Because apart from the copper wire resistance, the inductor does not consume any power. Hence it shouldn't get hot. Also for such low freqiencies of below 500Hz, you will most likely use a ferrite or even transformer core inductor, which might have some eddycurrent losses but much shorter wire and excellent heatsinking capabilities. I have several vintage speakers 30-50 years old, which have inductors some of which I'd even consider undersized and yet they are fine. Of course if you run a HiFi speaker on full amp power all night, (mis)using it as a party speaker, anything can go wrong. But that's user error and not on the manufacturer. The only speakers I know without inductors are cheap or oddball constructions. On a smaller multi-way speaker it's actually more important to use LPF because the woofer's range usually extends far into the mid or (mid-)tweeter's.

@@vikassm I hear you, but if you're designing a speaker that starts at $5,000, but uses only $150 or less in drivers and CLEARLY has a TON of profit built into it, (it is very small after all with smaller/less expensive parts with the cabinet also using less material) then in my opinion, it's almost irresponsible to not at least throw a half-decent iron-core inductor in there on the woofer to calm things down a bit as frequency rises. I've heard and used both of the bass drivers used in both iterations of this speaker, and although both the Tang Band and Peerless are pretty nice sounding drivers and can make good woofers, they don't in my opinion have a nice enough sound on their own to be utilized in a multi-way speaker unfiltered. I don't think the 'rated power' has anything to do with the low-pass being included or not as the destructive energy that would cause physical problems with low-bass producing woofers lies in the deep bass, not the area that a low-pass would be filtering out. Any 'ugliness' an unfiltered woofer would present would be present if music is being played loud or soft. You're right that lots of speakers ship with no filter on the woofer at all. Some of the older larger-woofer designs could reasonably get away with it as their heavy cones just didn't reproduce upper-bass with any real energy, but most modern two-way speakers designed to have some mid-upper bass 'clarity' should have at least some attention paid to their upper-range roll-off. Even the really good higher-end drivers need SOME type of filter applied... And I would imagine an inductor would be one of the least-affected elements in a speaker system. There's basically nothing to go bad. I can appreciate you're playing devil's advocate in a way with the design choices they made, it's only fair to be fair after all... and we're all talking about something which we probably haven't heard. After watching this video, I watched another fairly long RU-vid video by someone whom I haven't heard of, but seemed somewhat respectable, that reviewed this exact speaker -- and he really liked it -- a LOT! It may sound quite nice, actually, it probably almost has to at least sound half-decent to get that many takers... But I doubt I'll ever hear one for myself... I'll be too busy in my basement making my own sawdust.

You should be able to get significantly better in that price range.

You can find it on the website listed under the about page of this channel. When you go to the site, it'll be under both the shop tab and the forums tab.

The cinema 10 was actually done with celestion.

Do you have to reverse the polarity?

@@Pete.across.the.street yes

Toy mean those TB 13-1761S ? Thanks

You mean

You can probably get close but with something that high up in price they probably make their own proprietary drivers. God, i couldn't imagine paying that much for speakers.

Yeah they definitely don't use off the shelf drivers in that price range but that's not the o say you can't find some drivers that would do arguably just as well or better, look at the upper end SEAS, ScanSpeak , Purifi, and Accutron drivers... The main limiting factor will be how well you can design.

@@attainableaudio7130 I wonder how a speaker can cost so much. They all work on the same principle.

@@bennonikolaus548 yeah at a certain point there is diminishing returns, at what point is the measurable distortion low enough to be noticable by the average human... But it is the overall loudspeaker 'system' that matters, plus when you get into the stratosphere of audio systems, you'll then also have to put a lot of money into your listening environment to take advantage of it.

@@bennonikolaus548 Lots of employees to pay, small amounts made equals to hand made expensive speaker. Lots of store margins and there we go. Price is 10-20x higher than cost.

Take a look at the forum. The link is in the description.

@@Toid ok thanks

Technically, you can use any speakers you want. You just be redesigning it. So in that sense you could.

@@Toid what are your thoughts about bmr speakers? Have you already projects with these kind of speakers? Thanks and keep up the good work 👍

@@user-oy2gw9it3x I love the idea of BMR. It is a great technology. However with every speaker there are good and bad to them. I did design a speaker recently with a BMR, and was very pleased with the end result. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MbSXDnP8jsY.html

@@Toid yes, i've seen that one. Super! One that i have to make myself. Maybe it is a good challenge for you to make the 65's of tectonic the best you can, with some dsp. I believe that project will please you a lot. Keep up the good work. I'm a fan

Yeah. That would be a nice subjective video for sure.

@@Toid if you’re downplaying your “subjective” views the. What value is there in listening to you? Of course it’s subjective but that doesn’t mean it is of no value.

@@imammarc I think you're reading into that. All I was saying is that it would be a nice subjective test. I meant nothing more or nothing less than what I said.

@@Toid ah!! Ok. Makes sense 😂😂😂 I was like “is he saying his review are subjective and not worth watching? I like this guy!!” 😂😂😂 no harm done

Generally with diy you want to spend at least $100-150 all told. That's the point where you can start using quality drivers/crossovers and really kick things up a notch.

@@blakebrockhaus347 Thanks for the response. I have no problem spending 100-200 euro on a driver. Roughly 1000 euro for 6 drivers, 3 way speaker. Wood, cables, connectors, microphone, software 500 euro (?) Crossovers will have to be digital cause I am to dumb for the normal kind. Minidsp 2x4hd, I'll need two for a 3 way. That's 500 euro. I'll need 3 stereo amps. Have one. So 2 cheapish decent amps, let's say 800 euro. Total 2800 euro. Make it 3000. The question is will these DIY 3000 euro speakers better a commercial speaker of the same price? You can get very nice speakers for 3000 euro.

Yup, Those OB Spatial Audio speakers received great reviews. If you have the space to stick them well into the room they do sound like the holy grale for the ultimate in super fast Bass quality and detailed airy highs. That interview on the New record Day channel with the Spatial Audio guy saying his drivers were tweaked versions and you would be hard pressed to find suitable DIY drivers with a high enough Qts suitable for OB. I'm sure there are some good PA drivers that would fit the bill though. Troels Gravesen used a Ciare NDH 15-4 S for his design.

Lol! Nice catch!