You Asked, We Compare: 5.7x28 vs 22TCM 

Excellent, non-biased review! I own three Five-seveNs, a MAPP MS with .22TCM9R barrel, and MAPP FS with .22TCM9R barrel, two Poly80 G17 in .22TCM9R, a Poly80 G19 with .22TCM9R barrel, and a CZ-75B .40 fitted with MAPP FS .22TCM9R barrel. I also have a RIA .38 Super GI fitted with a ramped .22TCM barrel. Oh, and the RIA M22 "Tactical" bolt action .22TCM! So I have a bit of experience with both platforms. I also hand load for both 5.7x28, .22TCM, .22TCM9R, and the 5.56x24 which is my own derivation of the .22TCM designed to allow the use of the same bullets in the shorter magazines of 9mm based pistols. I have velocity data on the 5.7x28 covering bullets from 28 grains up to 45 grains, with loads going as high as "+6P" which is 30% over the breech thrust of standard SS198LF. I've loaded .22TCM with three different bullet styles, TCM9R can only accept ONE bullet - the 39 gr. Armscor, and the 5.56x24 has been loaded with Armscor's 40gr. JHP, Speer 40gr. SP, Speer 46gr. JFP, Speer 33gr. JHP, and even the Nosler 35 grain VG with polymer tip ground flush. To say that I "like" .22 bottleneck cartridges is an understatement, and what's more I carry either a Five-seveN for SD, or Glock, or MAPP. I don't consider the 1911 based TCM for carry because it's too heavy, as is the CZ-75B with steel frame. The most compact is the G19 of course with 4" barrel and it does give up 100-150 fps to the 5" TCM rated barrel. The 4.5" barrels in the G17, MAPP FS, and CZ-75B can easily give 100 fps more speed than the 4" barrel and this is mainly due to the need to use much slower burning pistol powders than are suitable for the 5.7x28. The reason the TCM produces such a huge fireball is because of these slow-burning powder, which is needed to produce enough breech thrust to cycle pistols designed around larger, heavier bullet cartridges. The Five-seveN is best limited to 27-32gr. bullets for maximum velocity as breech thrust rises sharply when 40gr. bullets are pushed above 1,750fps. I've run 40gr. bullets to 2,050 and even 45gr. Barnes to 1,900fps, but such loads but a huge strain on the locking cam, and will cause damage too the Stripping lever. Such loads place excessive strain on the frame pins that pass through the locking cam area. 30gr. bullets can be driven over 2,150fps with equal breech thrust to the SS198LF, and the limiting factor for light bullets is chamber pressure, or more specifically primer extrusion. The case head and web of 5.7 brass is massively thick, so the only way to "read" pressure signs is neck movement and primer appearance. Due to the design of the Five-seveN firing pin and channel, primers will start to flow into the annular space. "Too much" is when primer material becomes lodged in the firing pin channel. These days I limit 40 grain bullets to 1,750fps which is about 7% over SS198LF for breech thrust. I limit 35 grain bullets to 1,850fps. With the .22TCM/9R, "hot" loading is the nature of the beast. "Light" loads in the .22TCM/9R will only get you sub-par performance. The gun needs large powder charges to extend the pressure curve further down the barrel to ensure adequate breech thrust! The TCM doesn't really "like" bullets under 40gr. weight for this reason. The G19 functions very well with 46gr. Speer JFP around 1,800+fps, and 40gr. bullets in the mid-1,900s. I have driven 40gr. bullets over 2,000fps from 4.5" barrels but this requires stuffing the case full with powder! I developed the 5.56x24 because Armscor was not offering 39gr. long-shank bullets needed for the .22TCM9R when I first started trying to find load information. After experimenting with modifying bullets I ended up modifying the case to push the neck-shoulder junction back 2mm, shorten the case, and make it possible for the standard range of .224" bullets to be used. The shoulder angle is increased, but the case still headspaces correctly in any TCM/TCM9R chamber. Photos of this round can be found via a search. 5.56x24 cases behave much like 5.7x28 in that during firing the shoulder is "blown forward" which aids pushing the case out of the chamber.

The 22 TCM suffers from bad marketing. It’s an amazing round that should have been named the 223 short

My 22TCM 9r mapp has been 100% reliable. Ammo IS a concern so, I stocked up early on! It is a total HOOT to shoot with big fireballs and, quite accurate. Thanks for your review!

I'm lovin' my 5.7 x 28 PS90 carbine/RUGER 57 pistol combo.

I like the extra 400+ fps of the TCM, and of course 9mm energy.

I have the RIA 22tcm 1911, and had to send it back for reliability issues, but since I got it back it's been completely dependable. I had considered the 22tcm as a carry round, but I believe the muzzle flash to be too much for that if you had to use it at night, you'd get one shot and then be blind for a while.

With the introduction of the Ruger 57 I see a surge of interest in the 5.7x28 - suddenly those who've spent decades lambasting the round as puny, "no better than a .22" (whatever that means), and of no practical use come to mind. The discerning self-thinker should consider that in the Ft. Hood shooting, the lethality of the 5.7 as fired from the Five-seveN was proven without any doubt. That one shooting, because it involved so many victims - all relatively young and in good shape it should pointed out, validates the 5.7x28 - and that was done using available OTC "civilian" ammo! The 5.7x28 is the ultimate "proof" that it doesn't take a huge bullet, or massive kinetic energy to put down a human. It simply takes a tiny bullet striking a vital structure. This is exactly what is required of all bullets whether large or small, heavy or light. In fact, the 5.7x28's "success" as an antipersonnel round bolsters the case made by 9mm fans when their favorite cartridge is maligned - that accuracy matters more than power, though it's not really "accuracy" they mean. Without understanding it, they are saying, hits to vital structures matter more than power and this is absolutely true. Consider how a sword kills - or an arrow. Neither arrives with much "kinetic energy" - probably about the same when the sword is used as a thrusting weapon. If the arrow strikes a vital structure, the victim is taken out of the fight - possibly killed outright, but that isn't the purpose nor point of small arms. With the sword has undergone thousands of years of design changes leading from large blades intending to "hack" or slice, to the much more refined, slender blade intended to puncture. As the understanding of human anatomy has improved, as has the study of battlefield wounds, the thrusting blade "won out". Punching a small diameter hole clean through someone's upper torso - or lower, has an almost immediate incapacitating effect. The puncture need not be forceful beyond what is needed to push through, yet the resulting wound is highly effective, quickly, if not instantly incapacitating, and can result in death. Growing up on a farm with all manner of different firearms and opportunities to see their terminal effectiveness, I started out as an ardent supporter of big-bore power, though I confess that along the way I saw an amazing level of lethality from the lowly, .22LR with nothing more exotic coming out of the barrel than a round nose led bullet at maybe 850-1,200 fps from pistol to rifle. Everything I've ever seen shot with a large, CF caliber I've also seen shot with a .22LR. I've see virtually the same "response" to being hit. I've seen animals hit through the chest with a .30-30 rifle at 20 yards that were nailed to the ground instantly, yet survived long enough to require a finishing shot, and I've seen the exact same thing from .22LR hits! We read all sort of "expert" opinions on forums and public bathroom walls about what constitutes an "effective" defensive cartridge with the .22LR being given short shrift, yet real-life shootings not only indicate otherwise, they absolutely SMASH the notion of "otherwise"! But not to digress too far since this is about the 5.7x28 and its parent handgun, the bottom line is they represent a truly advanced application of the modern "science" of wounding. Had Hassan carried out his shooting with a 9mm, there is no reason to think he would have killed any fewer, nor any greater number, but in "comparison" with other spree killings by shooters using other calibers - including rifles, the 5.7x28 certainly established its efficacy as an antipersonnel round.

The Five-seveN is my daily carry weapon. I've seen first-hand what it does. People always arguing over calibers, trying to one-up each other need to remember one "truth" about handgun wounds: A hit to a non-vital area with an expanding bullet is no more effective than a hit to a non-vital area with a FMJ. A hit to a VITAL area with a FMJ bullet is no less effective than a hit to a vital area with an expanding bullet! It really is just that simple. Without realizing it, the 9mm crowd has spent years validating the concept of the .22 for self defense every time they claim it's where you hit someone that matters more than what you hit them with.

Love the vid! Thank you for sharing!👍

Excellent review and very informative. Enjoyed it thnx.

Another great video. Please keep doing what you do the way that you do it. You deserve more subscribers and more engagement and I have every confidence that those numbers will come. I'm a subscriber, as you can see, and I'm going to make an active effort to help get the word out. Now I'll babble about physics so that this isn't just a support post. Many shooters are confused about the kinetic energy equation and why velocity seems to count twice. I'm going to explain it by looking at the area of a rectangle. Before Newton and in his early edition of his _Principia,_ the relationship of mass (the root property of weight) and speed (aka velocity) was called _quantitas motus,_ or "quantity of motion." By the final version of the Principia (Newton's big book of everything including the laws of motion), it was called _momentum_ and we still call it that today. The relationship is simple, just multiply. Momentum = mass × velocity Shorthand uses _p_ because we use m for mass. p = m × v or p = mv (same thing) Newton's Laws of Motion work, we know that equation has been right since the 1600s. But there was another smart guy at the time, Leibniz, who said, "Hold on. Not so fast. Momentum does not explain everything we see." He described it as a _vis viva_ - a living force - and others agreed. Based on observations and the best data they had, they were sure that it involved - _something_ × mass × velocity × velocity They described _vis viva_ as the _ability to do work._ The argument lasted 93 years. It took a long time because when they started, Leibniz and Newton had just invented calculus and it wasn't complete right away. If calculus had been instantly complete, they would have solved the argument in less than five minutes. (Not kidding.) Neither is wrong, the two are complimentary. Momentum is about motion, the other is about work. Over 350 years later, people are still arguing about it, and I believe it's because no one has spelled out simply enough. And it goes like this - A bullet hits a target with momentum - its mass times its velocity at the time (less than muzzle velocity). Perpetual motion is impossible and therefore so is instantaneous transfer of anything. The bullet *somehow transfers something* into the target a little bit at a time until the bullet has come to a stop. (Eventually all bullets come to stop, so let's not argue about the example.) We know we started out with momentum - mass and velocity - and it went somewhere until the bullet stopped. We didn't make a nuclear bomb so the mass didn't go away - just the velocity. Draw a rectangle. Title the left side momentum, or, p. Label the bottom velocity, or, v. Draw a line from the top left corner to the bottom right corner - a simple diagonal line. The bottom of the graph goes from the velocity of the bullet at contact down to zero. The left side goes from the momentum at contact down to zero. If we start at the left, we're at maximum momentum and velocity. The bullet loses a little velocity and momentum and that keeps up, bit by bit, until it reaches zero. If you add up those bit by bit contributions, you get the lower triangle in the rectangle - and the upper, equal and opposite triangle is where it went into the target (and into expanding a hollow point, if that happened). *The amount is the same as the area, that's what added up.* For a rectangle, that's width × height. The two triangles are equal, so each has half of the area, in other words - _vis viva_ = ½ × momentum × velocity Or, in order - = ½pv = ½(mv)v = ½mvv = ½mv² Today we call that kinetic energy - and it's a measure of how much work can be done (minus some tiny bit of heat because the universe does not allow perpetual motion). Kinetic energy is just a number. It does not tell you everything. But it tells you something, so it's a good idea to consider it - just like the other numbers for mass, velocity, and momentum. If you (anyone) has read this far, I hope you found this worth your time. I hope no one is offended at it being preachy - it's isolation time thanks to the virus and I had nothing better to do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If anyone is interested in the calculus for this, it's pretty simple. Just integrate (sum) momentum as a function of velocity. [0 to v] ∫ mx dx = ½mv² Kinetic energy doesn't favor velocity. It comes from momentum, and you have to take what you get, no less, no more. (BTW, that's why the two triangles in the graphic example are equal and how you know they can't be any other way.) Stay safe, stay healthy, and good shooting.

My 5.7 is suppressed

I LOVE TO SEE THE HI-POINT CARBINE COME OUT WITH A 22TCM, ALL THEY NEED IS THE BARREL.

I'd love to see what the big ammunition manufacturers could do with the 22tcm. If they applied some modern bullet technology to the 22tcm bullet I think it could be a decent round. A 22tcm with a speer gold dot or hornaday critical defense bullet. Maybe even bump the weight up a little bit to 50-55grn. I think theres a lot left in this round especially if the big ammunition manufacturers get to messin with it.

Well done, thanks!

Hammer Stricker , got the ROCKILAND TCM 1911 double stack same exact gun you have runs great. Specially with the nickel plated rds. Also have the conversion kit for the Glock 17&19 took a little brake in but run good now. I like to carry the 19 or 17 as a CCW you can up the rd count with bigger mags in the GLOCKS. Had the MAPP TCM9R seems they are having PROBLEMS with them. Light primer strikes. Sent mine back they gave me the 1911TCM for swap!!! I am thinking GREAT DEAL. Haven't seen much of the MAPPTCM9R around maybe more research & development. Great vido still haven't decided on the RUGER 57 yet. A lot of mix reviews are coming in . Still you gotta LOVE THE TCM& TCM9R. THANKS HAM&EGGER

Interesting video, good stuff. 😀

The new ruger 57 is a light gun, fast and accurate as can be. I like them both. The grand kids love the fire ball.

Go for the new Rugger 57 for a less expensive 5.7 handgun that has a better handling with a lower bore axis. Overall, a sweeter gun to shoot.

Great info!

great video, explained everything about these 2 cartridges Thanks!

James West tested 22tcm and 22tcm9r and both defeated soft level 3 armor .

Also the 22tcm9r is coming out of a 4" barrel where as the 22tcm is leaving a 5" barrel i think the 100fps has more to do with the inch of barrel then the difference in the rounds

Good info thanks bro

Excellent video as usual 👍.but did you miss the vel readings at the range for the FN 57 Cartridges?. I think you missed emphasizing the lethality, penetration, accurate long range of that 5.7x28 round, which was developed as a 9mm replacement, with cross field accuracy! Nasty results to impacted 'material'. Nice the Ruger has entered the market with it's 57. Should improve ammo interest? My vote for the historic FN 57 marque. Never new about the 22TCM👍🇺🇲

I just cannot justify owning a 5.7 pistol until I adopt a 5.7 rifle. 22TCM in the 1911 9mm conversion RIA platform on the other hand, is just too much fun at a very reasonable price. Great video.

The RIA looks exactly like a Tanfoglio Witness.

I own a Fiveseven and have the conversion TCM9r barrel in my Glock 17. I like the fiveseven but here's the thing, only one company makes ammo for it! Even American Eagle is just subcontracted out from FN and unless Speer is making their own brass, all the brass I've ever seen has exactly the same headstamp - "FNB". The ammo is way too expensive because they figure they have a lock on the market. There's no reason for 5.7 ammo to be $30 a box of 50. I don't expect it to be as cheap as 9mm, but they are clearly pricing gouging everywhere I've seen it on the shelf. Way back when, PSA had American eagle for $15 a box so it doesn't have to cost a fortune! If FN stops making ammo, the cartridge is done for unless somebody else steps up - and not for $60 a box either! That's what lead me to the 22 tCM. It's based on the .223 case so even if Armscor stopped selling ammo, cases can be made. But the difference is, Armscor sells ammo for less than $20 a box and they sell new brass and bullets as well! Also, the conversion barrel for my Glock cost like, $150, dropped right in, and has functioned completely reliably since I installed it! Glock mags are cheap and I already own plenty, plus whereas the fiveseven only holds 20 rounds unless you want to take a change on the Promag 30 rounders, I've got KCI and ETS 30 round mags for the Glock that work perfectly! I got some Gen5 G19X+2 mags on sale that hold 19 rounds which brings the glock up to 20 rounds chambered.

I feel like they made a huge mistake in making the 22TCM longer than 9mm. Now you have two rounds (22TCM and the 9R variant) that are not entirely interchangeable. Realistically, the 22TCM 9R should be the only round. They could hype it up as a 9mm conversion round and aftermarket suppliers could make barrels for more common pistols.

those ammo will become popular if their price is same as 9mm

I got a 22tcm9r barrel for my g17 , it never worked. My grandson wanted it because of the 9mm part, so I gave him it all plus all my magazines. Id already bought the ria 9mm and 22tcm combo, so that ammo for the 22tcm9r will work in it

So, .22 tcm is the best gun you can get in terms of muzzle energy and velocity both. While 5.7 with 27gr projectile is the best merely in terms of velocity. So if you are looking for an all round catridge, go for the .22 tcm 40gr bullets.

Shame RIA Armscor didn't support it better or submit for SAAMI approval. There's plnety or reloading data online though. Good review and comparison. 👍

Try the 22tcm 9r through the 22tcm on the chronograph see if the 5 inch barrel helps . I had bought several boxes of 22tcm9r before I give on my glock 17 , my grandson wanted it to have a 9mm pistol so I gave him everything except the ammo , then , I got the ria 1911 double stack, 22tcm, 9mm, 38 automatic barrels

im a fan of 22 tcm now.

Install suppressor for 22 tcm to minimize muzzle flash. Or use a faster burning powder

I have a 22 TCM barrel for my Glock 19. The barrel kit comes with a spring. The damn thing jams all the time when firing it. It almost feels as though the spring is too light to cycle it back into battery. I’m going to experiment and see if leaving the stock Glock 19 spring in with the TCM barrel makes a difference Jams have all been feet jams where the slide does not lock back into battery completely. I think the issue may be the spring is just too feather light

As an owner of an AK74 platform as well as a Glock 24 .357Sig conversion, I can fully endorse the .22TCM over the 5.7 The necked-down cartridge is a significantly more powerful design than a chopped straight-wall, and in many cases more reliable. The problem with the RIA guns, is they designed them around the 9mm 1911. What they should do is produce conversion kits for .38 Super only, and focus on the single stack design. There are a whole host of problems simply stemming from bad mags/feeding. The 9mm and 1911 are like oil and water.

Needs ballistic gel testing or even against cinder blocks

Bottlenecked pistol rounds? Well, in terms of power: 9x25 or 7.5 > 357sig > 22tcm > 5.7 That said, I don't think 22 tcm will last. The FN round will.

223 short could have been more popular since this base on the 223

I have the mapp ,lots f problems,but when I pour miltec oil down the barrel,runs like a champ.......for 4 mags🙄

Nice comparison...Can't you shoot the .22 tcm9r out of the regular .22 tcm. At least now anyway, it appears they have one that can.

Thanks for the vid. I'd love to try the 57, but ammo is tooooo expensive. I wish they could get the same performance out of the MAPP as the 1911. Then they's be on to something.

I took my tcm out to the range yesterday and yeah, a woman approached me once I'd run 100 through it and asked what the hell I was shooting...:) I couldn't hear any shots with my ear pro on but mine.

I read the AFT made FN download the 5.7 from a much hotter original load ... can reloading more optimize it for doing well especially for carbines?

Awesome! With the advent of the Ruger and now the PSA Rock to challenge the always expensive FN 5.7 and its expensive ammo, Its nice to be able to show how much faster, and cheaper 22TCM ammo is for RIA 1911/2011s. Also in the Glock and Armscor 22TCM9R. I was hours from buying a Ruger 5.7 when I found the 22TCM in my reloading manuals and found RIA! Best move I made in guns in the last 10 yrs! Even in 2022 Brandon Ammogedden, 22TCM is $38.00 a box of 100 rounds vs 5.7 @ $80-90.00 a 100 round box! US made at ARMSCORS Montana ammo plant. I wish they would submit it to SAAMI but I guess RIA is like everybody trying to make a monopoly instead. A 1200 round case of 22TCM was around $400.00 when I last bought one a couple years ago. How much 5.7 will $400 buy?

Effectively not as good as bigger calibers. One hit at any bone and its stopped unlike a 10mm/.40 or .45 those stop a threat quickly.

I have a 1911 in 9mm and a 1911 .22 TCM (both single stack), so the 9R cartridge is appealing so I can just use the 9mm mags in both guns. .22 TCM/38 Super magazines cost a little more.

Can you Tell me which pistol or calibre is best, 22 TCM or FN five seven

The nickel platted case sucks 22tcm9r. Have not had a problem 22tcm

What are you talking about?? The 22tcm and 22tcmr have better armor penetration even with jhp as compared to 5.7

I almost bought a conversion barrel for a witness 9mm a while ago. The 22tcm was brand new and ammo was scarce at best at the time tho. I wish i had. Cool round.

what is an small edc gun taking 5.7x28

Im with TCM

AR 15 upper chambered in 5.7 makes absolutely no sense to me. Why would you downgrade An A.R. 15 to a less powerful, more expensive round?

A guy tried to sell me a fn 5.7x28mm, cheap , but I bought a ruger pistol and carbine for less than the fn pistol, love the ruger pistol way it felt in hand , fn felt more bulky and clunky like glocks do to me

Looked at this again and STILL wonder where is the (ballistic) comparison??

No rounds fired?

I will stay with my 9mm loaded with supervel ammo. Gun makers seem to make/promote new calibers so you will want a new gun and spend more money. Why not practice with your 9mm and put them all in the BLACK,this will impress your buddies!

Can u compare the glock17 vs glock21?

If its too loud your too old.

Math are fer learny peepul! 1 + 1 = Democrat potato...