You don't need Node to use NPM packages 

I think nodejs is kinda inevitable at this point. Try running away, and it circle back to it.

And so a new js runtime shall be born to right all wrongs, again

There's no way to fix this JS mess. I sometimes gets the childish thought why not design a language with pros of JS and remove the cons.

@@jitx2797 like people haven't done that already

Eh, while all the compat stuff is available for the npm modules, they’re not available in your code, aka you’ll never have to use module.exports/require and such.

They said that in the video

It produces a huge binary, but sure it's there if you want it.

babel has a standalone package that does runtime transpilation, meaning you can write JSX/TS/SCSS and the transpilation step will happen after DOM load, directly in the browser.

@@charlesm.2604 great even more overhead for the end user, i get what your point is but that is not a drop in replacement for Vite in most situations

@@charlesm.2604 sounds horrible

@@1000percent1000 I know but the original commenter does not want to introduce a JavaScript runtime environment with proper bundlers and transpilers so it's always an option.

@@paradiseexpress3639 It is what it is

You can already do that in import maps in Deno!

Import maps are already a thing in Deno. They even have a handy little tutorial on them.

If we can already import packages from any registry using import maps, then why have they added the “npm:” import to deno? Seems redundant unless there’s some npm-specific reason for not using import maps. Why should deno make an exception for npm?

@@vikingthedude because npm is so popular

You're comment actually made me think quite a bit. Some really good questions you're asking here. After digging around a bit, I think the answer is yes, it's a good thing that package.json is gone. And no, I don't think you can install modules globally/locally for deno, since that's not how deno works. I also can't think of a scenario where globally/locally installed modules are more sensible than deno's default sandboxing with setting explicit permissions when required, but am happy to change my mind, if you have one :). I could probably not explain it better than Ryan Dahl does himself in the talk he gave on why Deno came to exist in the first place: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-M3BM9TB-8yA.html

The sequel to framework hell, runtime hell.

@@fayenotfaye Can even combine for classic `m * n` problem!

I would suggest import maps

It’s literally in the Deno docs. Import maps.

@@richardrapstine9014 any idea about the packages with missing types?

@@vincaslt That's fair point... As long as I observe, there is no import map aliasing for @deno-types comments, which is a shame.

@@vintprox what was also bothering me a bit is that one of the selling points of deno (even mentioned in this video) is that it doesn't need a package.json file. In my eyes, importMap is pretty much the same package.json file...

I already switched, as soon as Deno 1.0 launched, and I'm definitely NOT coming back to insecure node. The security model in Deno is just that important.

And deno deploy is absolutely magnificent

Seems like the way to go to me. Although the desire to call it "package.ts" is a little bit strong... at that point you kind of lose the "advantage" of not having a package.json

You can either use a deps.ts file or an import map. Deno also has a deno.lock file

Pretty sure npm wasn't part of nodejs in the beginning hence the awful choices on packaging.

@@fltfathin Ryan literally announced deno by apologizing for strange packaging patterns. Let's review. He said that Isaac created package.json, but he (Ryan) designed `require` around it. Making it mandatory. He said that he regretted how node_modules is resolved. Then finally, the point that "index.js" became the default entrypoint.

I think Ryan was dead wrong about being upset about node_modules being local and vendored-by-default. It's a very good pattern. I can't stand using pip because I need extra tools to isolate my dependencies. Tell me the last time you used python with more than two dependencies that you didn't reach for a virtual environment.

@@codeman99-dev when working with JVM languages, gradle does this too by containing the cached deps in the .gradle folder, honestly don't see what is so wrong about node_modules, the package.json is definitely something that could use some work though

I think C# dotnet has the best package system(nuget) along with Rust cargo. It's a pleasure to work with

No just export all your dependencies in a deps.ts file and then use it in any of your project files That's how a standard deno project looks like, ofc they don't use import in every file with a URL that long Just make a central deps file exporting all the dependcies

@@ashishbhushan7837 So it's basically asking you to create your own package.json

Nope just a typescript/javascript file with some `export {foo} from "bar"` statements that's it👍

@@ashishbhushan7837yeah but that is literally package.json though, just a diff syntax

Only it's not mandatory and you need a way in any language to maintain all your packages. Don't we?

Could say the same about creating a backend with node, being with express or even Nest, no gains with tons of extra work. And where do you see the extra work from this video ?

thanks, same impression with imports, bit confusing at first

Yeah I like deno's imports but I don't like the idea of having to copy and paste the exact same import everywhere in my code, especially with version limits

0:58 achieves the install and import in a single line. In node you have to npm install and then go into your file to import.

@@ShadoFXPerino wow. amazing. revolutionary. incredible. also totally pointless.

​​​@@lydianlights Just like the guy above you clearly missed the point of the video, it's not about the fact that you don't need to install but about the fact that deno is now compatible with npm packages. Your smartness is indeed incredible.

~~If only we had a central point to manage configs~~

export express in a file maybe

it is cached locally, otherwise it wouldn't be called a cache. It is just not cached within the project root but rather to a global directory somewhere in your PC. That being said, you can get a node-like node_modules by executing the commands with --node-modules-dir

bun is a sizable speed boost. deno is similar if not slightly slower than node. I dont think performance improvement is part of deno's mission

Deno still uses V8 so it won’t be small since V8 will be included

@@vin5718 There is not much point to it then, we have nexe in nodejs which is kinda same.

It's using reverse proxy by default, it's actually magic! Except the ports are always randomized...

linting doesnt have to do with formatting.

@@crowlkats whoops you’re right, but If I’m not mistaken the formatting that deno does come with a default of 2 spaces (and I just found that a bit cursed)

Proton works really nicely, and it's not steamOS but just Linux, given some limitations like non compatible anti cheats etc, you're obviously exaggerating. And If you're a Dev and can't follow 3 instructions on proton DB then that's problematic, it's easier than your basic 3 liners "get started" for any npm package.

each package has a package.json that defines deps.

you can use an import map to define your dependencies.

23 seconds of work?! gross!

@@clamhammer2463 yeahh cba ctrl+f replace all 💀