You have no free will at all | Stanford professor Robert Sapolsky 

not so. We can change our environment to avoid triggers that spark desire, and learn more about our desires and what they will get us. I used to hate oatmeal and would rather eat Pizza and ice cream for breakfast. Then I learned more and gained experience and my desires changed to enjoy oatmeal for breakfast. If I don't want to want something, stay away from it, completely, or as much as possible, so that the triggers we face are small and few and our more mature desires can overpower our instinctive desires

@@christianlassen1577 You are using a desire, to justify a desire to not have a temptation. You want two things, and one want outweighed the other as an influence on your actions.

Schopenhauer is the only person I've ever connected with, truly. He understands. Slept on unfortunately and misunderstood.

Have you ever heard of desire? The goal of life to test people Did they really want to be good even of that means doing what you don't like, same be patient and thinks out our control Happy life for you

Only partially true. I agree with the first commenter. You can acquire a taste. However, deeper desires like sex are harder to deny.

Take away the vote

"there is nothing worse than ignorance in action" - Goethe. Unfortunately most ppl never past teenager stage of their life in the 70s and some of those ppl run countries - Bernardo Kastrup

That's a social function. When someone isn't up to a job, they should not get promoted. That's how we do it now.

It's because we live in a stratified class society instead of a meritocracy.

this sounds like an excuse for tyranny. he's not entirely wrong, but he's not entirely right either, and the half truths are often the most dangerous

I already overthink stuff, dnt need to do this at all. U won’t be able to find out the answer

Believing there’s no free will is suppose to make you less hateful and judgemental, but Dr. Sapolsky said that he’s only able to act this way 0.1% of the time. Even Sam Harris, another no free will master, last year quit Twitter because he said he found himself hating, blocking, and being disgusted at thousands of Twitter users. In trying to figure out the root cause of someone’s continuing criminal behavior, one should not limit oneself to ACE scores and possible prefrontal cortex damage, but also (if you’re willing to risk being automatically called a racist) consider the influence of gangsta rap on culture and the actions of liberal DAs who insist on “non-carceral forms of accountability”.

Yeah it's the S1 versus S2 thinking of Kahneman... how the brain works... here's to hoping everyone has enough prefrontal cortex capacity to do this; because hey, we're all created equal (not) => hey!

Skeptical

Except you have no free will to do any of that, right? 😂🙄

Yeah, my parents dismissed me when I pointed out the flaw of that logic. Their god gives these laws such as thou shall not kill or thou shall not steal, that would allude to the idea of free will. But if everything is predetermined, some people are bound to steal and kill, making those rule’s meaningless if such people are doomed from the start

​@@user-ij6py2zi9b Faith is what let's them turn off thinking about it any further. The moment they are presented with a contradiction in their beliefs they will fall back on faith internally to protect those beliefs.

@@christopherchilton-smith6482 I recognized this, because they were conditioned to uncritcally take in this knowledge of how the world works since childhood without considering alternatives (against free will) being such a pivitol part of their ego or identity that defines who they are as people and what they live for. Many in my family blast gospel music to cope with the negatives of life and fall deeper in their supposed worship and try to force those beliefs on me. As an observer, I'm aware of all of this, but knowing how they'd react, I can't do or say anything

Free will is the gift humankind has been given that allows each being to freely choose their ideas and what they wish to believe or not believe. Our ability, through the choices we make, "to create new circumstances and environment, relationships, achievements or failures, prosperity or poverty." There is no way that man may escape what he thinks, says or does [i.e., the fruits of his free will]-for he is born of the Divine Creative Consciousness power and is likewise creative in his imagination.

@@edgarmorales4476 Those are empty proclamations, there's little to substantiate them. The world is either determined or determined with some randomness thrown and that's just where science is right now. In either case your brain is first developed by the deterministic biological factors and then shaped by deterministic environmental factors. No amount of randomness thrown into the mix frees your will. Anyone can stand outside of science and proclaim anything just as you have done.

yet no one talks about eternal torture if consciousness is infinite/can replicate forever in infinite universe/survives death!!!!

A 3 week LSD binge omg

@@Mortepheusi think they meant binging on the lectures..

Same here.

​@@Mortepheustwo days is in a row is a waste. I did a whole year macrodosing just to see what would happen. It was quite expensive.

👍👍👍

It's really asking questions wrong. The concept of "making a choice" already assumed agency. But are we really "making the choice"? Or is it merely the outcome of a natural process (despite being highly complicated)?

Well put

This seems to agree with Alan Watts, who said “I know Alan Watts is just a big show” 😂 Seriously, the sense the world revolves around us from our vantage point is the impetus for I, and your name is just a personification (mask wearing) to differentiate your I from another’s. Crazy stuff …

Once upon a time, when a child misbehaved in a tribe or a village, the whole group accepted responsibility for the crafting of that individual. Clearly, that kid did not get some of their needs met, if they are misbehaving so badly. Everyone was responsible for the kid. It takes a village to raise a child. In modern Western society, individualism removes responsibility for others, and rejects the fact that others crafted each individual. It's all about "you". A kid turns 18 and declared "I" am me, and "I" made me, and "I" am independent. They don't credit the structures which rewarded them. No one is independent. People who are narcissistic or otherwise don't understand that their "self" was made by a socially collective environmental causation, tend to de-value society in favour of individualism. The individualism of neo-classical economics and the resulting culture, promotes the idea that if you are rich and powerful, you did that yourself, excluding the influences and circumstances other people produced to make you what you are. When the successful, the leadership, the wealthy, reject the idea that their success is built on a society, the society is denigrated, and discarded in thought and policy. Now we have ended up with a scenario where those who have not had their needs met by a system built by and for the successful, are taught to blame themselves for being inferiour. This suits the powerful. The individual blames themselves, for the lack of social support and belonging. Free will is tied up with religious concepts which don't make sense, and socio-economic systems built by and for the "winners" who fail to understand that they could not exist as they are, without the group which made them. Individualism is obtuse, and so is free will, and so is "independence". The "real me" is a product of all the factors which made me, not merely my experience of having agency.

excellent

@@vervor :P

Great question! I’d love an answer on this from him

If you could retroactively change any condition in the casual change that lead to a decision without also making a different decision then you could say your decisions are free because you're litteraly freeing those decisions from the conditions that lead to them. That's what free will looks like, Sapolsky says something like this about free will when addressing why emergence isn't a route there.

Libertarian free will is an incoherent concept, it can't exist so it doesn't look like anything. It's like asking what a uniformly coloured blue red balls looks like. That is the entire point. There is no definition of free will that can exist that is a basis for moral fault judgement. People do exactly what their situation (nature, nurture, environment, quantum randomness influences, mood, etc) tells them to do, they can't do anything else. Free will would look like somebody doing something other than the thing reality forces them to do. It's impossible.

for real

Sapolsky is Archimedes and I am a fruit fly that will always watch whatever he says.

If only he would stop talking about ants in this context. The average ant enters its life as specialized as possible and would therefore have the least imaginable benefit from anything even remotely resembling this so-called free will thing.

he was an uncle before being a grandpa, watch his earlier lessons (stanford classes)

He might be one of the smartest people alive. If you haven’t read “Behave”, I highly recommend it.

From my limited perspective, the human animal has two fundamental needs (before we get to Maslow's Hierarchy). The first need is agency. We need to feel we have control (see Matrix 1-3 movies - LOL) over our existence. The second need is the need for connection. When either of these needs is not met, then the trouble begins.

@@AVADAMS1967Maslows pyramid has proofed to be wrong

@@florentin4061 the model is incomplete, not wrong. There's a difference.

Well put. And we can certainly improve our awareness. Of both the external circumstances and internally, the subconscious. We will never escape these factors completely, either by nature or because they serve us. What we can do is keep our eyes open and not let them possess us. To walk this path is to walk the path of self discovery and growth.

I know the guy who wrote it 😏

Or the illusion of awareness as a conscious being. We fundamentally fear the fact that we are merely a mortal reactive machines that produce deterministic outcomes.

You type this comment as if you have a choice to feel bad for people

I think you nailed it and that's spot on

@@frankxu4795 That's the thing though. The experience of feelings still has to exists. The only thing anyone can know for truly certain, objectively, is that their own subjective experience exists as a real thing. For example, I know that the feeling of me seeing the color red exists, I can't prove it to anyone but myself, but the proof for me already happened in the moment I saw the color. Whatever the nature of the universe may be, it definitely has at least one series of complicated sets of different feelings in it.

Yes

Step by step, thought by thought, deterministic animals by nature.

Even this comment and mine... 😅 Owing to super-determinism of quantum mechanics, this and everything before and after, and around was determined 13.8 billion years ago.

Because there was no need for it

lmao

Correct

Not only ego but insecurity that if things aren't in our hands then our predetermined path can be anything which can be worst.

I choose not to believe you! Ha, gotchu!!

So we must release all the criminals we convicted because they have no free will. Therefore, they are not guilty. Right? Wrong?

@@ron_peIn one sense that’s true of course we won’t do that because they’re still a threat to us but yeah, makes ya think.

@@ron_pe So you didn't watch the video.

Good Girl! 👌 🐟 11. FREE-WILL Vs DETERMINISM: Just as the autonomous beating of one's heart is governed by one's genes (such as the presence of a congenital heart condition), and the present-life conditioning of the heart (such as myocardial infarction as a consequence of the consumption of excessive fats and oils, or heart palpitations due to severe emotional distress), each and EVERY thought and action is governed by our genes and environmental conditioning. This teaching is possibly the most difficult concept for humans to accept, because we refuse to believe that we are not the author of our thoughts and actions. From the appearance of the pseudo-ego (one’s inaccurate conception of oneself) at the age of approximately two and a half, we have been constantly conditioned by our parents, teachers, and society, to believe that we are solely responsible for our thoughts and deeds. This deeply-ingrained belief is EXCRUCIATINGLY difficult to abandon, which is possibly the main reason why there are very few persons extant who are spiritually-enlightened, or at least who are liberated from the five manifestations of mental suffering explained elsewhere in this “Final Instruction Sheet for Humanity”, since suffering (as opposed to pain) is predicated solely upon the erroneous belief in free-will. Free-will is usually defined as the ability for a person to make a conscious decision to do otherwise, that is to say, CHOOSE to have performed an action other than what one has already done, if one had been given the opportunity to do so. To make it perfectly clear, if one, for example, is handed a restaurant menu with several dishes listed, one could decide that one dish is equally-desirable as the next dish, and choose either option. If humans truly possessed freedom of will, then logically speaking, a person who adores cats and detests dogs, ought to be able to suddenly switch their preferences at any given point in time, or even voluntarily pause the beating of his or her own heart! So, in both of the aforementioned examples, there is a pre-existing preference (at a given point in time) for one particular dish or pet. Even if a person liked cats and dogs EQUALLY, and one was literally forced to choose one over the other, that choice isn’t made freely, but entirely based upon the person’s genetic code plus the individual's up-to-date conditioning. True equality is non-existent in the phenomenal sphere. The most common argument against determinism is that humans (unlike other animals) have the ability to choose what they can do, think or feel. First of all, many species of (higher) mammals also make choices. For instance, a cat can see two birds and choose which one to prey upon, or choose whether or not to play with a ball that is thrown its way, depending on its conditioning (e.g. its mood). That choices are made is indisputable, but those choices are dependent ENTIRELY upon one’s genes and conditioning. There is no third factor involved on the phenomenal plane. On the noumenal level, thoughts and deeds are in accordance with the preordained “Story of Life”. Read previous chapters of “F.I.S.H” to understand how life is merely a dream in the “mind of the Divine” and that human beings are, essentially, that Divinity in the form of dream characters. Chapter 08, specifically, explains how an action performed in the present is the result of a chain of causation, all the way back to the earliest-known event in our apparently-real universe (the so-called “Big Bang” singularity). At this point, it should be noted that according to reputable geneticists, it is possible for genes to mutate during the lifetime of any particular person. However, that phenomenon would be included under the “conditioning” aspect. The genes mutate according to whatever conditioning is imposed upon the human organism. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE for a person to use sheer force of will to change their own genetic code. Essentially, “conditioning” includes everything that acts upon a person from conception. University studies in recent years have demonstrated, by the use of hypnosis and complex experimentation, that CONSCIOUS volition is either unnecessary for a decision to be enacted upon or (in the case of hypnotic testing) that free-will choices are completely superfluous to actions. Because scientific research into free-will is a recent phenomenon, it is recommended that the reader search online for the latest findings. If any particular volitional act was not caused by the preceding thoughts and actions, then the only alternative explanation would be due to RANDOMNESS. Many quantum physicists claim that subatomic particles can randomly move in space, but true randomness cannot occur in a deterministic universe. Just as the typical person believes that two motor vehicles colliding together was the result of pure chance (therefore the term “accident”), quantum physicists are unable to see that the seeming randomness of quantum particles are, in fact, somehow determined by each and every preceding action which led-up to the act in question. It is a known scientific fact that a random number generator cannot exist, since no computational machine or software program is able to make the decision to generate a number at “random”. We did not choose which deoxyribonucleic acid our biological parents bequeathed to us, and most all the conditions to which we were exposed throughout our lives, yet we somehow believe that we are fully-autonomous beings, with the ability to feel, think and behave as we desire. The truth is, we cannot know for certain what even our next thought will be. Do we DECIDE to choose our thoughts and deeds? Not likely. Does an infant choose to learn how to walk or to begin speaking, or does it just happen automatically, according to nature? Obviously, the toddler begins to walk and to speak according to its genes (some children are far more intelligent and verbose, and more agile than others, depending on their genetic code) and according to all the conditions to which he or she has been exposed so far (some parents begin speaking to their kids even while they are in the womb, or expose their offspring to highly-intellectual dialogues whilst still in the cradle). Even those decisions/choices that we seem to make are entirely predicated upon our genes and conditioning, and cannot be free in any sense of the word. To claim that one is the ULTIMATE creator of one’s thoughts and actions is tantamount to believing that one created one’s very being. If a computer program or artificially-intelligent robot considered itself to be the cause of its activity, it would seem absurd to the average person. Yet, that is precisely what virtually every person who has ever lived mistakenly believes of their own thoughts and deeds. The IMPRESSION that we have free-will can be considered a “Gift of Life” or “God’s Grace”, otherwise, we may be resentful of our lack of free-will, since, unlike other creatures, we humans have the intelligence to comprehend our own existence. Even an enlightened sage, who has fully realized that he is not the author of his thoughts and actions, is not conscious of his lack of volition at every moment of his day. At best, he may recall his lack of freedom during those times where suffering (as opposed to mere pain) begins to creep-in to the mind or intellect. Many, if not most scientists, particularly academic philosophers and physicists, accept determinism to be the most logical and reasonable alternative to free-will, but it seems, at least anecdotally, that they rarely (if ever) live their lives conscious of the fact that their daily actions are fated. Cont...

my god, thank you

THANK YOU SO MUCH

Thank you Can you suggest me some more podcast on psychology

@@THE_NEO_DAWN I find Dr. Ramani is quite interesting: narcissism, psychopathy and other anti-social behaviors. However, I think she could use some anthropology. Speaking of which 1972 quote from anthropology (translated from French) "we did not evolve to live in the societies we have erected. We evolved to live in tribes and cooperate for the whole tribe as those were most successful at adapting/surviving.

wanting to act or not, is the same want, which you cannot control. It appears that you in control, but decision was already in head, before you realized it. There is research that show, people made decision, before they knew themselves

Brilliant! I had to reply to your comment... I have NO free will. haha.

I suggest that he wrote the book because realising that we have no free will we should change the way we behave in terms of apportioning blame and rewarding people. That is, he wants to influence (cause) others to think along those lines hoping for a positive reaction.

@@sjoerd1239 Spot on. Now we can influence others and so one. I suppose it is about positive memes.

Butterfly effect

@@BobSacamano666 🦋 Try 'Interesting times' by Terry Pratchett. I think the audiobook is on you tube. It is one of my favorite books.

Is everything you are and do a direct result of a choice you made

Let me illustrate my point with a simple, straightforward example. The way an ant perceives reality is completely different from how we perceive it. Your finger could be right in front of the ant, but it will remain completely oblivious until it directly obstructs its way. It cannot see that the finger is attached to a hand, which is connected to a muscular arm, and eventually a towering human. The ant's brain is wired to prioritize its survival as a species, leading it to block out all other senses except for what is necessary to see. Thus, the ant is confined by the limitations of its brain, unable to perceive anything beyond its predetermined boundaries. The ant will never know that it resides on a monstrous globe because it doesn't need to know. Nevertheless, the ant faced a decision: flee from the finger or defend itself by sinking its tiny jaws into it. Please correct me if I am mistaken, but that is my understanding. Our freedom to observe is restricted, with only a limited range of choices available within our designated sphere and controlled by the brain. Another example is that of a computer program bounded by its code and can only perform functions that are programmed into it. Hope this helps!

His idea of free will is some part of the brain being able to make a spontaneous choice that wasn't pre-determined by all the previous events that led up to that choice, including your current mood (in his book he mentions a study of judges who on average would give parole much less often if it had been hours since their last meal), your environment, your social circle, your childhood traumas, the conditions of the womb you grew in, and all the genetics and evolution that went into giving you the brain that you currently have. Essentially his argument is that the subconscious part of the brain makes choices for us based on all of these factors and then we feel the illusion of making the choice ourselves. So to disprove his idea you would have to show a neuron firing that wasn't directly influenced by another neuron, and another neuron before that; because anything else wouldn't be free will, it'd be just another in a long series of pre-determined, predictable (with enough understanding of the brain; which we don't have yet) series of events.

@@whateverusername I agree our minds are constrained in ways we dont think about, but that's not the same as saying there is no free will. It seems closer to saying something like: thinking about teleporting wont make you teleport. So what? we already know there are constraints on free will. I dont see how individual neurons firing proves or disproves anything. Thinking involves billions of neurons in parallel. Nobody is arguing about whether a single nerve cell on its own has free will.

People who make these absolute conclusions are so full of ego and so limited in their thinking even though they sound intelligent the fact they arrived to that point. He can’t prove or disprove his theory, it’s the same argument he’s using to disprove it is the same as the one that disproves his own argument, correlation doesn’t equal causation. We don’t actually know for sure that’s how it works, we can’t know, it’s impossible

absolutely. Looking at humanity's fringe cases gives us an insight that the people doing better, got it better and the people doing excellent just had it excellent. Hard work, resolve, focus, determination are talents themselves just like IQ.

​@@kittuojhaexactly. But we often attribute "failure in life" to misuse of free will.

Yep and childhood traumas, all influences you didn't choose that form your personality - personality is formed as relfection mirror of others - you don't have even choice about your personality. How could nothing chose between A and B without any pre-existing preferences before it was born???

You are influenced by who you choose to serve, if all you engage in is sin then evil spirits will manipulate you. But there are also generational curses which is a whole other topic. If you really want to know what’s going on, read the Bible.

​@shamisha10 shh adults are talking

People are just confused thinking free will thinks infinite possibilities. We obviously live in a finite reality so you can't just spread your wings and fly. Free will within a finite reality.

True story.

You're not just ensnared by things like social conventions, everything you do dictated by the laws of physics. You feel like you "freely" will something, but actually you're just noticing in your conscience something that's the result of your neurons having a mechanistically determined behavior.

@2CSST2 free will simply means selecting an option while rejecting another option. Something determined doesnt evaluate another option, it selects exaclty what its preselected to. What you choose is not determined but its actually up to you. You are telling me you have no choice in what you choose to eat? That's nonsense

Exactly. There are countless factors that confine us. Yet, we enjoy the safety features on roller coasters and in cars. To be confined to parameters doesn't mean the death of free enjoyment.

Niche reference there

But the fundamental choice of which road to take is determined by factors you don’t control (based on your current brain activity). In reality, while it appears you can choose any road that you will, your brain state selects a road which you are forced to select despite the fact that it appears to you that you where the author of the decision.

have you seen the series "Devs"?

Think about lightning, finding it path of least resistance... I think that statement is false, i think lightning is more like an opportunist who takes from where is available.

You night have the abilities that determine whether or not you have the forsight, insight, wisdom, whatever that is needed to get off that road quick enough or you might not, and that determines whether you take that road or not and that was already true before the choice was ever presented to you.

@@nonononononono8532 ok, this depiction would mean we're are just character in a prewritten story, we have no will, no choice, and therefore we are not technically responsible for our actions. Wouldn't this mean reality is an illusion, like a video game were the characters look and act real, and yet they are only light pulses on a screen controlled by outside forces?

god alone exist, and this is a movie being watched by god(he's your consciousness/the real you), this was revealed in my mystical experience when i thought i died as a human just to be shown that i am pure consciousness that exist nowhere and everywhere and it's all that exists

@@ayoubzahiri1918you can belief that yourselve, but dont force your Theories on to others

@@juriG10how is he forcing anyone

Quit trying to force people not to force their theories on others​@@juriG10

The world is grasping onto victimhood more now than ever before. The idea that it is freeing you of guilt and giving it to others is a false one. Gaining the approval of others of like mind seems to give us freedom and innocence. That false idea is limiting us rather than setting us free. Being responsible is the way to joy.

@@robertdouglas8895 knowing there's no free Will liberales and also gives you a great deal of responsabilities, coz you know you can shape the will of others, and not even interacting with them, but just by being in the same environment

@@estudiopersonal1020 All minds are connected. When we forgive others, all receive the freedom and joy of seeing everyone as free.

I wonder if that's bc humans were programmed with slave DNA

I agree that accepting lack of agency is liberating and it has also increased my gratitude for my life and empathy and sympathy for others. I am more humble and forgiving. This knowledge adds a whole new level of meaning to "walk a mile in my shoes". No free will does not mean no responsibility. Quite the opposite. Now I know how my actions affect others in ways that I was totally unaware of before. And I make sure I eat regularly. 😁

I wrote an entirely different reply and erased it to leave this. Would this be considered "free will"? It's more of an existential sort of question anyway.

He is not saying conscious thought is not a factor. Of course conscious thought might influence your behaviour. But your conscious thoughts are caused by all those same factors. You simply think the concious thoughts that your situation/reality tells you to think. You can't think different thoughts than those.

⁠ All the factors present affect your pfc which is where you have conscious thought and that’s all deterministic. The minor events and factors shape the way you think causing you make the decision the level of complexity and modularity is just really high. Everything in the present time has a past dating back to the beginning of time, how anything go to where it is now is dependent on an incommensurable number of factors and that’s just the system we’re in. To have free will would be to never be subject to this system essentially existing externally from it.

@@inu4992don’t we to a certain degree remove ourselves from the “system”? Isn’t that basically what engineering, agriculture are? Conscious thought gives us the ability to observe the “system”. Are we to assume going against the “system” isn’t part of the “system”? That’s some love and rockets philosophy right there. No new tale to tell.

those concepts are just developed forms of very simple interactions between us and the environment which we barely “willed”. They date back far before our prefrontal cortex was even that advanced. Agriculture is just developed hunting/gathering and engineering is just the use of basic mechanical principals. All of which are developments we couldn’t have willed because we didn’t even think they’d turn out to be half of what they are today

There is evidence for Consciousness being a universal field, in SAVANT SYNDROME, a condition in which those persons with significant mental disabilities demonstrate certain abilities far in excess of the norm, such as superhuman rapid mathematical calculation, mind-reading, blind-seeing, or prodigious musical aptitude. Such behaviour suggests that there is a universal field (possibly in holographic form) from which one can access information. Even simple artistic inspiration could be attributed to this phenomenon. The great British singer-songwriter, Sir James Paul McCartney, one day woke with the complete tune of the song, “Yesterday”, in his mind, after hearing it in a dream, as did his songwriting partner, John Lennon, who heard what is arguably his finest song, “#9 Dream” (as the title suggests) in a dream. American composer, Mr. Paul F. Simon, had a similar experience, when the chorus of his sublime masterpiece, “Bridge Over Troubled Water”, simply popped into his head. I can personally attest to the phenomenon described in the previous paragraph, in which a novel piece of music is heard within a dream, since one of the hymns I wrote when I was a Roman Catholic novitiate monk, was composed after the remembrance of both the melody and the lyrics (actually a setting of the “Hail Mary!” prayer, in English) from a dream on the morning of the fourth day of October, 1994 (Christian Era). This phenomenon could plausibly be relevant to the chapter on determinism, as some could argue that Sir James Paul McCartney did not really compose the tune of “Yesterday”, since he did not do anything in particular to produce it, other than hearing it in a dream. Of course, Chapter 11 demonstrates that not a SINGLE thought or deed of any animal, human or otherwise, is the result of free-will, as we humans are naught but characters in the play of life (or the Mind of God, for those who are Theistic), as the great English playwright, William Shakespeare, once wrote.

Totally!

Me too !!!!😊

they dont exist

And you can prove that with complete certainty?​@@oedesse

What causes you to not react in anger when you feel angry? It's because you were conditioned by your mom/dad/teachers/society to do so. You had no part in that.

@@mugdays What if we climb the ladder of those supposed ancestors up until the one true ancestor who took that ultimate decisions of "not reacting to anger" and passed it to his siblings or contemporary or whatever, then where does the decision come from? What if his ancestors had no emotions and couldn't pass it to him? The world is vast and complex and your brain has to take A LOT of decision each time, and yes as you pointed some of it comes from parental figures or events that shaped you or society. Some of those pre-digested answers are useful and do not require modification but if you want to modify a behavior or a conclusion you have the ability of doing it. You have reason and critical thinking, you have the ability of gathering data if the ones you have are not enough. Free will seems to be more on a scale rather than a simple "yes" or "no" answer. I'll answer your question with another one : What if you are in an absolutely brand new situation where not a single answers from society or parental figures fits in this moment?

​@@nicolasAT1991I think you are oversimplifying what is being presented here. It is not to say your decisions are based on your upbringing, genetics, or society. But also the factors in and before that situation, whether and what you ate that morning, whether someone cut you off in traffic that day, what time of day you make that decision, to say that all these factors brought in together determine the decision you will take. To say that if we had perfect information up to the nanosecond one could predict the decision you take with absolute accuracy.

No. That is not what he is saying. He is saying we have no freedom at all because we just do what our environment tells us. All the examples he is giving are not "parts where you don't have freedom but you might have freedom in other ways". All the examples he is giving are simply examples of where we once thought there was freedom but there is none. Every mystery ever solved turned out to be "not magic" and that is a good indicator of no magic existing. The same will be true for causes of behavior. Every cause of every behavior so far explained turned out to be "not free will" and that is a good indicator that no free will exists. And that is pretty logical, because free will can't exist. "People who believe they have choices tend to work on improving themselves. Those who don't tend to be more passive." Where you listening? He is saying that people do(!) make choices. The absence of free will is not the absence of choice. I haven't believed in free will since I was 14 years old and read Bas Harring, but why the hell would that stop me from working on improving myself? Not improving yourself just sounds like a dumb decision and totally irrelevant to the discussion about free will. "They will attribute everything, good or bad, to their genetics, their ancestors, the weather." Those are not the only 3 factors. The amount I improved myself is also(!) a factor (for example). That doesn't mean I have free will.

No, your brain does not yet understand what no free will means. You have no control over how your brain works and how it responds to stimuli. There is no free will. You are your brain. Your unconscious mind makes decisions based on the capacity of your brain. A story is created for your conscious awareness of why you made a decision. That's why people feel like they are in control.

That is to say, we all have the illusion of free will but when an independent observer sees, the outcome is predetermined by the external factors already. Free will is something that does not exist objectively. It's merely a subjective feeling.

@@frankxu4795 reference frames again - like relativity

so then is that really free will if the answer is always predetermined by other factors outside of their control?

@@Th38AD801It isn’t. It’s just a performance. A file being played back. We can be sure that to some degree our conscious perception of agency is a fictive dream. However we cannot know all the minutiae of how this reality works, and therefore making conclusive statements about will ends up being either dogmatic or agnostic.

If you can only do that which you're determined to do, by things outside your control, then there are no choices. Taking an action you aren't convinced to take is impossible. So no, there are no choices.

Free will is the gift humankind has been given that allows each being to freely choose their ideas and what they wish to believe or not believe. Our ability, through the choices we make, "to create new circumstances and environment, relationships, achievements or failures, prosperity or poverty." There is no way that man may escape what he thinks, says or does [i.e., the fruits of his free will]-for he is born of the Divine Creative Consciousness power and is likewise creative in his imagination.

That's irrelevant for the free will discussion though. Whether the future can be predicted, does not mean you are "free" to choose anything. It just means you cannot predict the circumstances in which the choices are going to be made. But the point is, all the factors that will eventually determine the choices before that point, are all pre-determined.

Without a mindset-you have no life, no development, no evil and no good. Your TYPE of mindset determines the quality of your life. This is the very first TRUTH of EXISTENCE. Furthermore, for as long as you live-you carry your mindset with you wherever you go. There is no escaping it-and day after day-it will continue to create for you the type of existence you have experienced in the past. Most people go through their entire life believing they are unfortunate. They think that other people have been mean, unkind, ugly to them and have made their life thoroughly unhappy. They believe that "other people" quarrel with them and constantly make difficulties, while they are absolutely innocent of any provocation. On the contrary, "other people" are not to blame. It is the personal mindset that is attracting to them their negative conditions. Most people shy away from the suggestion that they alone are responsible for their troubles. It is more difficult for most people to face up to their inadequacies than it is for those who have the inner strength and self-confidence to look at themselves fairly and squarely. Sincere Prayer draws the "Father-Mother Creative Consciousness" into the mind-quietly and secretly-It cleanses the human consciousness of all that the individual no longer feels comfortable with. It is, of necessity, a very gradual process of inner cleansing and development.

Without a mindset-you have no life, no development, no evil and no good. Your TYPE of mindset determines the quality of your life. This is the very first TRUTH of EXISTENCE. Furthermore, for as long as you live-you carry your mindset with you wherever you go. There is no escaping it-and day after day-it will continue to create for you the type of existence you have experienced in the past. Most people go through their entire life believing they are unfortunate. They think that other people have been mean, unkind, ugly to them and have made their life thoroughly unhappy. They believe that "other people" quarrel with them and constantly make difficulties, while they are absolutely innocent of any provocation. On the contrary, "other people" are not to blame. It is the personal mindset that is attracting to them their negative conditions. Most people shy away from the suggestion that they alone are responsible for their troubles. It is more difficult for most people to face up to their inadequacies than it is for those who have the inner strength and self-confidence to look at themselves fairly and squarely. Sincere Prayer draws the "Father-Mother Creative Consciousness" into the mind-quietly and secretly-It cleanses the human consciousness of all that the individual no longer feels comfortable with. It is, of necessity, a very gradual process of inner cleansing and development.

Most people shy away from the suggestion that they alone are responsible for their troubles. It is more difficult for most people to face up to their inadequacies than it is for those who have the inner strength and self-confidence to look at themselves fairly and squarely. Nothing happens by chance! Everything is woven out of the inner threads of our personal consciousness-thoughts, expectations, beliefs in life, fate, "God." We live in a world of our own making! This is why children raised in the same environment turn out differently. Each one has their own individual mindset constructed according to inherent character traits. Most people go through their entire life believing they are unfortunate. They think that other people have been mean, unkind, ugly to them and have made their lives thoroughly unhappy. They believe that "other people" quarrel with them and constantly make difficulties, while they are absolutely innocent of any provocation. On the contrary, "other people" are not to blame. It is the personal mindset that is attracting to them their negative conditions.

It is a feeling. Here is a simple test. Nobody can prove the person next to him/her has free will. Every single action can be fully explained by external factors, including one's experience, environments, etc. The only "proof" ever given for free will is the feeling of self free agency.

A lot of it comes from religion. If all the things you do are determined already, going to heaven by deduction is pre-determined. What is the point? That's very hard for those people to swallow.

of course free will exists. just like the continuum of space curvature utterly impacts the continuum of mass-energy without touching it, likewise the continuum of awareness impacts mass-energy without touching it. the religious magical thinking lays in the delusion that attempts to pray nonexistent emergents of awareness into existence as properties of mass-energy.

@@frankxu4795 The concept of being 'determined already' is indeed present in religion and isn't 'very hard for those to swallow.' I understand that when you say 'determined already,' you mean that we as humans are solely driven by our circumstances, and here comes the misconception. On one side, some people say that there is no outer will; our choices are based solely on circumstances, while others say that between the stimulus and response, there is a space.

I know it's crazy, it is a concept that makes absolutely no sense at all when you shine a light on it. It's magic. The reason that people are disagreeing with is is either that they have a different definition of free will, they don't understand the argument but think they do, or they don't want to let go of their free will because that is a huge part of their identity.

@@frankxu4795 theistic determinism is a thing for a reason. of course an omniscient being would know exactly what was going to happen all along, right? so then what is the point of creating humans and asking them to obey when it is already known who will and who won't?

Yeah, I've read stuff that argues free will isn't absolute either way; we are influenced enough that some avenues of decision making are completely cut off, and some are much less likely than others. However, there is still an element of "choosing" between those options, and science has no real mechanism for explaining it entirely one way or the other, at least for now

You don't understand what he is saying. You are missing the point. There is absolutely no free will and Sapolsky is 100% correct on this matter. We have to protect society from dangerous criminals the same way we have to protect society against earthquakes or tornados. They are dangerous. Also, the feeling of there being free will is useful for encouraging prosocial behaviour and discouraging the opposite. If you decide to protect society from dangerous criminals, you are doing so to protect society and maximize well being. It does not necessarily imply moral obligation or agency. Do not assume that he is wrong just because you don't understand the argument.

True 🤣🤣

😂

well, if you dont think, therefore you don`t?

You have no free will to decide about that as well

You have no choice how this will make you feel.

Doesn't matter. It's not up to you

Yes, you should.

You should feel no different because you can't perceive the lack of free will. You can understand it, similar to how you can understand quantum physics, but it's not perceptible to you without technology.

Hello. I'm not educated in neuroscience, could you please if possible elaborate on ''I don’t know how anyone can look at cortical layering and not see the complexity required for self-influence'' for a layman? I'd be very thankful.

Influence is totally irrelevant to free will. Even if your brain were the only thing that existed, it's running on its own. YOU are not a thing in terms of causal chains. Your consciousness observes, and the brain just does. What could you possibly do differently other than that which you actually do? The brain is governed by prior events the exact same way the rest of the universe physically does.

@@Zanuka Not trying to be dismissive. If you’re interested in cortical layers, then you should research it. There is far more than can be covered in a RU-vid comment.

@@bboyagua You do exist to your brain and your thoughts are part of the causal chains. They are a part of the feedback process. I like to liken our awareness to reading a filled out rubric. How that information is read and passed along matters a lot. Half of what we are is the choice of how we read those rubrics to ourselves. As we look at the repeated networks in our minds, we can see that rubric effect over and over - especially in the neocortex. That means not only do we have freewill, to some extent because real life isn’t a dream, but we have several levels of freewill which get repeated thousands and thousands of times. The trick is first defining freewill, then looking for it. If you think freewill is the ability to fly and shoot lasers from your eyes on command, then of course we don’t have it. If you think freewill means you have influence over the process, then it’s there and a lot of energy is put in to defend that influence.

@@bboyagua exactly, everyone is simply the conscious experiencer of one human being/perspective.

The word "free" is ill defined for basically any concept. There is nothing that's "free" in the universe. Everything and anything are affected by the environment surrounding it and what makes it up.

this cant be applied to collectivist cultures, in my culture for example its normal to live upto age 40 with your parents/family🥸

Free will is the gift humankind has been given that allows each being to freely choose their ideas and what they wish to believe or not believe. Our ability, through the choices we make, "to create new circumstances and environment, relationships, achievements or failures, prosperity or poverty." There is no way that man may escape what he thinks, says or does [i.e., the fruits of his free will]-for he is born of the Divine Creative Consciousness power and is likewise creative in his imagination.

@@edgarmorales4476You obviously didn’t watch the video

​@@edgarmorales4476 And of course it's the particular god construct of your particular culture. How convenient. All too convenient for my taste. Considering the long history of delusional theologies we have created.

🤔 wouldn’t it be more valid to believe there is an invisible man in the sky watching over us once a person believes they do not have free will?…

That man's called Karl Marx🥰

Wrong

Free will is the gift humankind has been given that allows each being to freely choose their ideas and what they wish to believe or not believe. Our ability, through the choices we make, "to create new circumstances and environment, relationships, achievements or failures, prosperity or poverty." There is no way that man may escape what he thinks, says or does [i.e., the fruits of his free will]-for he is born of the Divine Creative Consciousness power and is likewise creative in his imagination.

Amazing argument. ​@@burnhamsghost8044

The older I get, the more I realize how much external factors shape us. Take working out for example - I never planned on it, but playing soccer with friends got me hooked. It's a great reminder that our environment and the people around us have a powerful influence. To some degree society knows this we've all heard of "tell me who you're with and I'll tell you who you are. I don't know why keep this facade of free will.

@@edgarmorales4476 but what made you be a person that creates new circumstances, environment and everything mentioned? That is already predetermined.

To prove that quarks (subatomic particles) are more real while protons and neutrons (atomic particles) are less real, we need to establish a clear definition of what we mean by "real" and then provide evidence or logical arguments that support this claim. Let's approach this step by step. Definition of "real": For the purpose of this proof, we will define "real" as being more fundamental, indivisible, and closer to the underlying nature of reality. Proof: 1. Quarks are the fundamental building blocks of matter: - Protons and neutrons are composed of quarks. Protons consist of two up quarks and one down quark, while neutrons consist of one up quark and two down quarks. - Quarks are not known to have any substructure; they are considered to be elementary particles. - Therefore, quarks are more fundamental than protons and neutrons. 2. Quarks are indivisible: - Protons and neutrons can be divided into their constituent quarks through high-energy particle collisions. - However, there is no known way to divide quarks into smaller components. They are believed to be indivisible. - Therefore, quarks are indivisible, while protons and neutrons are divisible. 3. Quarks are closer to the underlying nature of reality: - The Standard Model of particle physics, which is our most comprehensive theory of the fundamental particles and forces, describes quarks as elementary particles that interact through the strong, weak, and electromagnetic forces. - Protons and neutrons, on the other hand, are composite particles that emerge from the interactions of quarks. - Therefore, quarks are closer to the underlying nature of reality as described by our most fundamental scientific theories. 4. Quarks exhibit more fundamental properties: - Quarks have intrinsic properties such as color charge, flavor, and spin, which determine how they interact with each other and with other particles. - Protons and neutrons derive their properties from the collective behavior of their constituent quarks. - Therefore, the properties of quarks are more fundamental than those of protons and neutrons. 5. Quarks are necessary for the existence of protons and neutrons: - Without quarks, protons and neutrons would not exist, as they are composed entirely of quarks. - However, quarks can exist independently of protons and neutrons, as demonstrated by the existence of other hadrons such as mesons, which are composed of one quark and one antiquark. - Therefore, quarks are necessary for the existence of protons and neutrons, but not vice versa. Conclusion: Based on the above arguments, we can conclude that quarks are more real than protons and neutrons. Quarks are more fundamental, indivisible, and closer to the underlying nature of reality as described by our most advanced scientific theories. They exhibit intrinsic properties that determine the behavior of composite particles like protons and neutrons, and they are necessary for the existence of these atomic particles. It is important to note that this proof relies on our current scientific understanding of particle physics and the nature of matter. As our knowledge advances, our understanding of what is "real" may evolve. However, based on the current evidence and theories, the argument for the greater reality of quarks compared to protons and neutrons is strong.

Also feels like a brouder version of the concept of psychohistory from Asimov's Foundation stories

You need to watch the video at least 1 more time. Sapolsky is everywhere on RU-vid, even has a Stanford lecture series.

@@---Dana---- thank you, I really appreciate your recommendation ❤️ But according to you.. Is free will an illusion? And how is that according to you kindly?

@HellenaAkinyi23_30 Yes, I believe that we do not have free will. We are biological machines. I have always understood that we are a very flawed species with such huge variation in behavior, within limits of course but things we do amaze me.And the human brain is soooo complex that it's not a wonder that things go awry sometimes. I also accept the scientific principle of cause and effect and believe it applies to behavior. We all accept this on some level, brain injuries being extreme examples. There are a myriad of things that contribute to the CAUSE that EFFECTs our behavior, from genes to parenting to environment to nutrition to experiences to trauma to ancestry to how hungry you are, etc., etc., etc. It all adds up to the programming of the biological machine. Edited for typo.

@HellenaAkinyi23_30 One example I think of is : Do you prefer chocolate or vanilla flavored ice cream? Why do you prefer that one, why does it taste better to you? Can you make yourself prefer the other one? Your brain decided, you did not.

@@---Dana---- why some choose to commit suicide while others choose to live, How can heroin addicts recover or drug addicts in general recover without freewill? freewill exist. dont be sadistic nor a sheep.

Yeah. I suppose Sapolsky is a scientist so he might say that the mind evolved through natural selection. I think he is saying that everything the mind does can be explained in terms of chemical/electrical processes and external factors, so from a certain point of view it's almost like there is no "self" even though that "self" is central to our identity and everything we do and experience.

​@@ProfoundFamiliarity he concedes that our minds make choices beyond the mechanical electrochemical processes afforded to say prokaryotes, but he is saying our minds are so constrained by our environment there is no real choice. i can imagine our environment constrains us in surprising ways, but concluding our choices cant change the environment whatsoever is bizarre. im not sure what point there is to even having a mind in his view.

If by mind, do you mean sense of self/ego? Because I don’t believe that is a product of evolution at all. I believe the sense of self/ego is an adaptation that occurs on an “individual” level in response to living in a way that is totally antithetical to how we evolved to live. If we lived as we have evolved to live, we would have no sense of self as separate from those around us. This is probably impossible to imagine for us, but the way I imagine it would be is that looking at another human would feel like we feel when we look in the mirror, only we’d probably feel even more connected to that other human than we do to ourselves when we look in the mirror. With ego/mind, everyone is a potential threat to us, so we can never feel genuinely safe.

@@katieandnick4113 this is how I imagine the hive mind of a bee or ant to be. I think we are social animals but that human minds do not usually extend beyond our own bodies. I think there is individualism in our society and a lot of value is placed on individual freedom. There’s a great documentary about that called The Century of the Self.

I'll frequently delay decisions or actions to give myself some time to consider things as thoroughly and in as balanced a way as I can - often means I'll hold off on some big decision until after I've had something to eat. Lol - I'll also check to make sure my dentist has eaten, too! 😀

HA! Gotta start somewhere. But there already are control systems that are trying to factor in these fluctuations in the human part of a human-machine interface in the management of complex machines (sensor systems monitoring heartbeat, respiration, etc. for test pilots, for example). They're not intended to take away anyone's independence (i.e., "free will"-a dreadful 19th-century term). They're to help people make better decisions by alerting them to inner physical states that they'd probably deny out of embarrassment-like people who get behind the wheel when they're too tired or intoxicated to drive. A car that senses that human state can disable the starter (and even summon a ride-hailing service). That sensor data (and the processor interpreting it) seems like better grounds for a consequential decision than "free will" (i.e., no one can tell me what to do).

No human should be given sole power over another. Committees are better. Networks are better than hierarchies.

@@---Dana---- Agreed. Just make sure the morning bagel delivery is on time before the group comes to any decisions!

Except the Judge had no free will to make sure he wasn't hungry that day.

The problem with your argument is that, the choices you supposedly made, are products and functions of those external forces you mentioned. It is part of those forces, not something in addition to those forces. That's what it means by "no free will". You have wrongly assumed those choices are independent factors.

@@frankxu4795 Yet we can make choices to encourage certain factors to be different in the future. I get that it's an endless chain of factors but we do have a degree of agency otherwise we would not invent and create in the way that we do. There is a directional force that gets overlooked in a purely scientific view because it's not measurable at the moment that I'm aware of. I agree with the evidence of determinism, just not with all the conclusions drawn from it.

@@frankxu4795 My issue with the debate is that it can go around and around endlessly based on semantics and how one chooses to look at it.

@@zaclovesschool2273 That is because "making a choice" is completely ill defined. It pre-assumes free will and the choices are yours to make. Put the same person over and over again in the same exact environment with the same exact information, the decision is going to be exactly the same. Agency is nothing more than a delusion for the subject and understandably so because we all look at the world from the first person perspective. While an observer sees the system, it is completely deterministic. The feeling of agency from the subject is irrelevant to the observer.

@@frankxu4795 I agree with how the system works, but I still don't think it's fair to conclude that we don't have agency despite our ability to separate ourselves from a situation and contemplate different paths to take. In the end we only have one path because we can't exist in multiple potential places (unless ofc multidimensional or alternate realities exist but I won't argue that). I just define choice and free will as having any level of agency in causal currents. Which we have, it's just possible to understand how those currents flow. Which, in my opinion, doesn't take away from our ability to choose within very limited circumstances. But I get you'd say that technically if we only go down that singular path, that there was never actually a choice. But I'd argue there is a choice right up until the moment happens. And the current moment is ever-flowing onward. So broken down it just gets paradoxical if you try to separate the ideas of choice and determinism. We live in a deterministic system but have the ability as sentient, conscious beings, to decide how we will impact the world given our limitations. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't have innovated. But we did, because people chose to and contemplated our existence enough to begin to understand causal forces. Then, with that knowledge, we were and are able to influence the things around us to better suit our wants and needs. I don't see how that doesn't incorporate an aspect of personal agency or choice. Course we'd probably end up repeating the same points in a circle because it's a difficult concept especially when being brought into a philosophical lens. Science and the laws of reality can be clear, but how we interpret and choose to view them are not. Plus There's also psychedelic experiences and such that are worth considering, but without experience with them or knowledge about them, it's just another conceptual rabbit hole. Would rather wait til people get a more clear and deep understanding of the fundamentals (quantum research or otherwise) before drawing certain conclusions on things that already have a fair bit of confusion surrounding them. Also I still need to finish this video (was over halfway), had to sleep last night before I finished.

How do you define free will?

And how do you know you were not predetermined to say that?

You obviously chose your parents, the country you were born in, your environment, every event that ever happened to you, you obviously know the state of your brain down to every neuron and neurotransmitter and moreover you can control every firing of every of your neurons to your liking to produce the conviction that metaphysics and free will is supposedly obvious.

​@@plotofland2928 free will is the capacity to decide over metaphysical choice, like, honor, diplomacy, politics, ethics, etc.

@@philosoraptor777 there is no evidence determinism works on metaphysical realm.

Keep an open mind overseer being more open minded. No pun intended

How does the presence of consciousness allow for free will? Free will is completely illusory and is a magical nonsensical concept. There is no real or imaginary world where it can exist. It literally makes no sense and is based entirely off of an illusory feeling that you are the thinker, the personality, and the decider.

A friend just recommended this book to me. What is your take on it?

Sings: “It ain’t necessarily so...” 🎤

@@Lifeislife787 well im a medical student that is into neuroscience, behavioral biology, evolutionary psychology etc. so it was really eye opening for me. If you ever wondered why we behave the way we do then it is a must read for you as well

Nowadays I marvel at our credulity in the modern magicians (someone with the PhD degree and able to speak coherently) .. that magician takes the stand, without knowing how the brain works (otherwise, please let the magician explain to me how intelligence and consciousness are generated, and incidentally let him replicate it), and he takes out of the galley the categorical argument that free will doesn't exist .. evidently that magician wrote the Determined book because he was already determined in the stars (i.e the chain of deterministic events that originated from nothing, i.e. the Big Bang), that he had to trick us with his magic ..

Is there not also a separation between thinkers and non-thinkers? Culture does not always influence everyone in it otherwise culture would never change. Thomas Jefferson also said every generation has a right to their own laws, ideas, etc. That if the world never changes it is stuck in the past and the ideas of those who have died. The world must belong to the living. To those alive now, today. And they have every right to their own cultures, beliefs, ideas, etc.

Yes free will is an important motivator via emotions like guilt, shame, and pride. It encourages prosocial behaviour and discourages antisocial behaviour so I don't know if Sapolsky realizes that the widespread dissemination of these ideas could cause some problems - essentially for some people, it could serve as a catch all excuse for whatever heinous behaviours they wish to commit.