I’m going to cast my vote What we’re viewing is Marica’s mother. Whatever creature we are looking at, one thing is for certain. This Omen is a royal. Marica would set the laws and rituals of the golden order. (I.e. the erdtree ritual, the return to the erdtrees roots upon death, and the rules of handling Omen.) Only Royals do not have their horns excised, a standard set by Marica’s vision of order. All the royal omen in the erdtree era, are Marica’s children. Not only that, they are her FIRST children. It is easy to believe the tarnished and the numen come from the land of shadow. The numen are from a foreign land beyond the stars(beyond fate, and the concept of progressing life and death as we know it). The tarnished also LEAVE the lands between after their crusade, basically exiled for being remnants of the past. Of a now bygone era. This would also have had to have happened AFTER morgot and mohg were conceived/born. But this paints an interesting theory. That Godfrey being of the crucible era may have played a part, but Marica’s bloodline produces omen, because she herself was once descended from omen royalty. Also, the woman in the photo, while her braces appear to be different from our subject here; The veil may very well have been to hide her horned visage from the public, easily achievable if they had been clipping/filing them to do so. Thus in honor of her forbears, only Royal omen are spared this agonizing process.
That's a very interesting take, nice job. There's is a thing tho, if this character whoever she may be is from the land of shadow that would mean she is originally from pre golden order era and therefore having her omen horns intact is the norm.
@@G4meplus Agreed, though the gold in its design certainly suggests a connection to the Golden Order, perhaps the origin of it. Gold cuffs, gold robe, gold mask, etc.
The crucible scale talisman was a good catch! And I'm really thinking the lady in the painting could be Marika's mom and potentially also the gloam eyed queen maybe? Also here are some ramblings if you're interested: -I think the beast eye is THE gloam eye, or one of two because the game makes it seem like the gloam eye thing is quite exclusive -Perhaps Maliketh stole the GEQ's eye or sealed the "Gloam" abilities in stone and perhaps Melina inherited the eye and gets it back after beating maliketh in frenzy ending -Stones absorb and seal aspects and abilities , smithing stones, throwable stones like volcanoe stones, glint stone, the beast eye, gravel seal, ruins greatsword, ruin fragment, sanctuary stones, warming stone, floating stones after radahn's meteor cutscene, and the list goes on of stones absorbing and sealing qualities -The idea of beasts/dragons/crucible having the same ethics/philosophy: less intelligent but more dignified, loyal and trusting (Serosh, lansseax, maliketh, beast champion set, crucible feather, etc.) -Beast champion helm: A philosophy of being like stone, loyal and permanent -All in all the crucible/beasts/dragons/natural life have a lifestyle and philosophy relating to stone and then the greater will came, granted intelligence and overtook the stone ideals, and if the Gloam eyed queen was around near or during the crucible days, she most likely worked along side the crucible or perhaps has aspects of the crucible/beasts/stone herself which may be why the beast eye is made of stone, has gloam in it and is called the "beast eye" GLAOM EYED QUEEN WAS A BEAST
What if this character, the lion dancers and probably other bosses on the DLC are just acting? Meaning they are performers and this is like a play or dramatization of past events that took place on the shadow lands with Marika. The masks, their poses and a lot of "dancing" symbolism going on both on this image and the gameplay trailer
I guess it makes sense that a country which is completely cut off from the outside world for many hundreds, or possibly thousands, of years would develop and preserve unusual and unique traditions and customs.
Great observations! I got huge Marika vibes when I saw it aswell. The weapons reminds me of the swirl behind her statue. The uterus iconography makes your brain race towards Marika aswell considering how many children she creates. The pose is probably from her jumping down making that crater in the ground and probably really unnervingly starts to straighten up against you before attacking.
My guess is that this is Marikas mother and obviously the dude impaled in the trailer is her father. The mask is obviously from a very ancient period in time, that’s along the lines of the Zamor Knights, so around crucible era. I think her mother being the mother of Omens and the connection point to why Marikas children (Mogh and Morgot) are the way they are makes a lot of sense. Almost like Marikas mother is the mother of beasts. I think that Mesmer is to blame for the impaling on the side, I think there is a reason for why he would do this to Marika and then Marikas Mother, something to do with Blasphemy, and signifying the end of an era, the crucible ending with Marikas mother being impaled and now Marika. Also if this stands true potentially the Lion Dance boss is one of Marikas siblings.
Agreed on the parents. I'm thinking though that the mom is the pregnant one in the painting and this also might be the gloam eyed queen? Maybe this new boss is the baby and a sibling... If her parents were both empyrean so as to make Marika empyrean, makes sense that she could be gloam. If the dad is God king, also makes sense painting woman is queen, with death being a bigger part of the Crucible order. She also seems to have inspired the deathbed companion outfits... Even more convicned of all this since someone pointed out the dude in the throne is centered in the painting, and the left side is obscured (fam portrait with Marika?)
Maybe its the embodiment of Marikas womb? The uterus symbiology is pretty on the nose. and the placement of that hole on the back is hard to ignore. Queen-mother theory Or Aspect of Marika theory. And the idea of uterus imagery being shown with a monster holding two weapons is pretty interesting as fertility imagery is typically associated with life. This is different....this uterus seems dangerous and primal. all this reminds me of the "born of a mother" dialogue from Melina. and the crucible being symbolically linked to the crucible is something i never thought of. it makes tons of sense. And if thats the case it makes sense that marika mightwant to remove that crucible aspect from herself.
Good observations! When Messmer was first shown, my intiial thought was that he's a shadow parallel or dark half to Miquella. I'm not so sure about that anymore, but if I was right then perhaps this being represents a hidden side of Marika.
I think this is her, or rather the ‘id’ to her ‘ego’ - her shadow self comprised of all those parts of herself/children that she pruned away and discarded. Her will was greater than her shadow but her veil would only hide them, not eradicate them. They reappear as traits in her children in varying degrees. Just as she had a female/male dichotomy so did she also have a light/gloam/dark trinity. This is why the time of day wheel has 5 icons instead of the usual 4.
Merika is her own mother and birthed her new vesel. After which she would remove the process of birth through "mothers" and enstate instead the golden order and briths through the Erd tree.
@AidanGreen-pk3vw put forth the idea that this is Marika's mother and the mother of Omens, and to add to that theory: what if this is Daedicar? Daedica's face was said to have been flayed, and her talisman reflects this. What if, the entity in the shadow lands wears a mask to conceal a mutilated face? Daedica is also said to have given birth to a myriad of grotesque children. What if these "grotesque children" are the Omens, Misbegotten, demihumans, and animal-human hybrids of the world? As far as I know, we aren't given a timeline for when Daedicar would have been alive and birthing children, but this theory would place those events during the first landing of the Numen in the Shadow Lands / Lands Between. Her flaying and impailment could both have been carried out by Messmer to end her bloodline and end the crucible age, as @AidanGreen-pk3vw wrote in their comment. I also think Tanith and Zoriyas are descendants of Daedicar. Which I'm now realizing implies a somewhat incestuous relationship between Tanith and Rykard, but this is GRRM writing this shit after all. My theory on Messmer's motivation is that he carries internalized shame for his grotesque appearence much like Morgott, but rather than serve the Erdtree, he targets the source of his affliction; the wombs of his foremothers. As for what he's doing in the modern age, I don't have a clue yet. But it obviously conflicts with what our Tarnished and Miquella are trying to achieve. TLDR: @AidanGreen-pk3vw wrote that this is Marika's mother and mother of beasts. I wanted to connect her to Daedicar who is said to have birthed a myriad of grotesque children and was tortured in times unknown. These events could have occured around the first landing of the Numen in what is now called the Shadow Lands.
I still don't think that's a boss. All of this reminds me of how much people analysed the Revenant from the gameplay trailer and it turned out to be a mini-boss/elite enemy.
@@dynamicflashyyeah, omens having horns and running about in the shadow lands makes sense. I love the idea of Merika being an omen or at the very least we may discover why she hates them lol
People seem to forget that shadow world can entirely be an ‘inverted’ world we currently been in. So we may in fact come across ‘mirror images’ of Lands Between entities.
I think closed right eye does mean disbelief to Erdtree/a desire to restart/approaching the problem other way around. But closed left eye, I think means blindness towards opposing belief. Thinking that there's no other way than their plan to solve certain problem. Such as Ranni. And such as Marika.
My opinion is the following: This may be a relative of Marika. Indeed, there is a puncture wound in her abdomen. This wound may have been done to some female omens during the crucible in order to stop them from reproducing, maybe a punishment for past crimes. Marika was aware of this precedent and did something equivalent to herself by being punctured with a shard of the rune of death, the only thing that would work given her divine status. That way she wouldn't birth any more new hosts for the Elden Beast, it would be her act of rebellion/defiance. Also, Godfrey has that hair color. Was he part of those divinely touched by the crucible but, not part of the royalty?
@@G4meplus Two things that lead me to this line reasoning: 1. Marika was impaled/punished during the shattering or after that, It doesn't make much sense for an "omen/crucible aspect" of her to have separated by that time. However, it would have made sense if such a separation would have been done way before, but if so then this female omen wouldn't have the puncture mark. 2. This game's lore works by indirect inferences, as in, the examples provided by some characters are used to extrapolate the reasoning and logic of events associated with others (namely Marika). If anything, I honestly suspect Marika didn't have crucible features, maybe an anomaly and she became an outcast because of that. Maybe she even developed some jealousy and resentment over it, while also being persecuted and discriminated because of it. Maybe that's the source of her disdain towards anything crucible related.
it could be one of the phases of alchemy... the whitening part is probably corupt or some paradox from the point of view of moral human expectations but true from the point of view of natural orders... anyway 2nd phase - albedo - white hair from this image, 3rd phase - citrinitas - yellow hair for Marika, 4th phase - rubedo - the red hair for Radagon and the black hair that would be the 1st phase is probably missing or doesn't exist
The hole in her back sells it. It's definitely Shadow Marika or some copycat; the spear would come out in this exact spot out of her back, nothing else seems like a good explanation for this detail which was deliberately obscured
It's clearly just a leader of the pro crucible faction. That would explain the fertility symbology, without having to involve Marika. Also it's not a wound, its just an image artifact so no Godwyn or Marika there either.
The Black Knight Calvary was originally supposed to "stalk" the player throughout the game, they could not make it work right or something to the effect. I wonder if this the SOE version of that. It's not Markia, or a family member. Everything we have seen has their horns, the rules are a little different there.
This is a big stretch but the uterus power thing may be another side of Marika or the gloom eyed queen. I’ve been wondering if the gloom eyed queen was something Marika defeated or absorbed before ascending to godhood and the secret is hidden under the veil.
Bro I had a thought, what if the "shadow lands" is the shadow version of the entire lands between? Like the whole map? And it contains a "shadow version" of all the demigods/gods? I thought of this because Miyazaki in every DLC interview yet repeatedly said that they were going to make multiple DLCs but decided to combine and make one big one because of the open world nature of ER. That would make a really big map and the "shadow" version in general is like a darker/second version of something that's similar to the original. For example in WOW the shadow lands in it are huge. Also, if you look at the trailer starting, you can actually make out lyendell towers, bridges etc in the shadow version as well which are just like the normal lands between. So with that logic I think the shadow version erdtree is just the actual erdtree but without the illusion. It's dying so someone put a illusion on it of how it should look like in the normal lands between, and the shadow version shows how it actually is without the illusion. That's why miquella went there, to heal the real erdtee which can't be done in normal lands between as it's an illusion only. I also have other theories about messmer, melina etc. Maybe later 🙂
Its well known marika has cruciable / omen DNA , since all where one and golden order is a fraction of age of crucible , this DNA is inherited to mohg & morgot
I rather think the crucible dna comes from Godfrey cause his whole lore evolves around the crucible and crucible knights. And no other children inherited omen traits. Neither from Rennala or Radagon/herself.
If its Marika, what if the spiral on the statues is actually her tail? Weve witnessed interesting tricks with statues before! Why wouldnt it happen again?
Random Off topic thought: Since snakes are a them with this DLC, what are your thoughts on the Portrait above the fire place in Volcano Manor? Up the stairs where Inquisitor Ghiza raids you.
i think she is a female because of the symbolism as i said in the video. i dont think that's phase 2 of the dancers, the arena is entirely different there is no way.
Love your take but what if its not Marika but her mother. Maybe she comes from an Omen and the traits skipped her but thats why she gives birth to Omens.
Well I think Marika is the Gloam Eyed Queen, I think Maliketh is the Shadow of the Erdtree because Marika as Gloam Eyed Queen burned the first tree, and was punished by the two fingers who sealed Destined Death from her, and started the Golden Order, which may have also I strongly suspect been where Radagon comes from, he was a punishment. I think making Marika the vessel was a punishment handed down by the Two Fingers, and enforced by Maliketh, hence Maliketh being her shadowbound beast who was betrayed by her into being forced to "defeat" not kill her by the Two Fingers, making him "The Shadow of the Erdtree" which is why Maliketh has the Beast Eye, it is Marika stone right eye that is missing when you find her. I'm guessing that Marika served alongside the Dynast King, but something happened to make her turn on the Gods and the Tree, and she became the Gloam Eyed Queen, killed the demigods in the Masoleums, and she burned the first tree, was punished by Maliketh starting the Golden Order and giving birth to Radagon who slowly took her over as time passed until finally she reached the brink, not because of stressing over Godwyn, but because she felt like she was losing her battle to Radagon, and it was now or never if she was going to shatter the Elden Ring. In fact, when Ranni says she didn't want to be controlled by that "thing" referring to the Two Fingers, I believe she is referring to Radagon her father, and is repulsed by the idea of what happened to Marika happening to her as well. I also wouldn't be surprised if the figure you are looking at that you suspect is Marika or her mother is actually an Omen Numen, we've just never seen one before.
I think it is a him not a her for the fact that there has never been a top less female in any of the games and not unless she just has like clamshells covering her breast its a male i also think there is a whole other half protruding from behind him/her just from the stance and shadows.
I feel like it's a mother, but not Marika. It's a white-haired omen, no braids or even any ondulation on the hair, some weird mask we've never seen and a weird grey like skin. The only thing that indicates that it's a female body is the female reproductive system shape. The pose tho is supposed to resemble Godwyn for some reason but I don't think it's Godwyn as well because the pose is the only thing pointing to him. It's a new character with a new lore as far as I can see, cause we've never heard about omen women. Anyway Marika is shattered until we fix the Elden Ring and the DLC does not happen after the end, it's before the end of the game. Unlike Miquella, Marika did not thyvest herself from her flesh or there is nothing indicating that she did. She has been to the Land of Shadow sometime before the Erdtree and the Marika steps Miquella is following is supposedly from that time. Miyazaki says we will learn about Marika's past and story in the DLC, this doesn't mean that she is there. The Land of Shadow is where Marika "became a god" whatever that means and "where the Erdtree was born" but nothing says that Marika has returned to the Land of Shadow anytime after she left it.
Bah... 2, 3 or 4 incarnations/aspects of every character in ER. All the other Souls games have definitely better and more inspired lore. I suspect it's GRRM's fault, given how consistent Miyazaki has always been...
