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You Won't BELIEVE why this Volvo Doesn't Start... (Part 2: XC90 Long Crank/Stall) 

Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics
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Let's dig deeper into this CKP sensor signal problem on the 2004 Volvo XC90.
ECM-5200 DTC sets when cranking, and injector pulse is missing.
The CKP signal looks PERFECT on the scope, so WHAT IS THE PROBLEM??
After several frustrating hours of diagnostics, a fellow Volvo diagnostic technician pointed me to an obscure TSB...
You WON'T BELIEVE what the root cause of the problem actually is!
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6 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 381   
@PK-yf4ho
@PK-yf4ho Год назад
I cannot thank Ivan enough to fix this car and gave it a new life. The days of not knowing when/whether it would start were gone. It was embarrassing to keep cranking while at a gas station or anywhere else for 5+ minutes without success. I wish I had sent the car to PHD 3 years ago. I think very few mechanics have the patience, skill and talent to handle tough-to-fix cars. Ivan is definitely one of those.
@dans_Learning_Curve
@dans_Learning_Curve Год назад
You're lucky to be close enough to send it to him! Did you find him via RU-vid?
@JD-iu3vi
@JD-iu3vi Год назад
Or friends that have Volvo knowledge.
@PK-yf4ho
@PK-yf4ho Год назад
@@dans_Learning_Curve Yes. We are almost 200 miles apart but well worth it.
@PK-yf4ho
@PK-yf4ho Год назад
​@@JD-iu3vithat actually showed one of the most precious and rare attributes of being a mechanic - honesty - by telling you how things were actually fixed
@JasonLee-lv7tm
@JasonLee-lv7tm Год назад
Very few mechanics are able to diagnose performance problems with cars. The reality is there aren’t many quality mechanics
@marknaravas318
@marknaravas318 Год назад
Ivan, if there’s only one thing I ever learned from watching you, is to CLEAN THE GROUNDS!
@user-ut6ji8my2h
@user-ut6ji8my2h Месяц назад
I am 78 years old. I learned when I was around 12 that good grounds mean everything when you are dealing with a mere 12 volts. Resistance can defeat 12 volts, and newer cars use a lousy 5 volts for a ref voltage. I remove and clean the ground straps on my trucks every year. I coat them with anti-seize and tighten them securely.
@kerrylewis2581
@kerrylewis2581 Год назад
I am glad there will be a part three. I thought there is probably more mistakes made by the previous mechanic.
@johnnyblue4799
@johnnyblue4799 Год назад
I'm not! I want everything in one video. I hate waiting another day!
@kerrylewis2581
@kerrylewis2581 Год назад
@@johnnyblue4799 At least he doesn't make us wait a week
@johnnyblue4799
@johnnyblue4799 Год назад
@@kerrylewis2581 I'd riot next to his shop! :)))
@calholli
@calholli Год назад
@@johnnyblue4799 He doesn't always fix it in one day.
@johnnyblue4799
@johnnyblue4799 Год назад
@@calholli Nope, but the repairs are done by the time he uploads the first video. If he says "yesterday this car was towed in" it means yesterday when he shoots the video, not when he uploads! :)
@petergondolier4088
@petergondolier4088 Год назад
For all the DIY mechanics out there, the first thing I do when I get a new/used vehicle is locate ALL the grounds I can get to. Remove them, clean to nice clean metal, lube the connectors and the body grounds, bolts, etc., with NO-OX-ID and re-attach. Unless the cables snap off, or are cut off, you've eliminated any grounding problems forever. When you replace starters, etc, use the NO-OX-ID on all those connections as well.
@htownblue11
@htownblue11 Год назад
Crazy how sensitive some components can be to ground current flow. Nicely done Ivan.
@lifelong5425
@lifelong5425 Год назад
Many would throw parts in...many would call it a bust, no fix.......This proves the need for thinking outside the box...ground control to Major Ivan...well done
@vpimike2646
@vpimike2646 Год назад
Poor grounding is always a lurking problem, especially up there in the rust belt. Thanks for the lesson, Ivan. Love your channel! 👍
@generaldisarray
@generaldisarray Год назад
Great diag and partial fix Ivan. One quick, cheap, and not so dirty way to test for a bad or inconsistent ground connections between the engine block, or transmission case, and body is to take a bog standard jump lead, clip one end to a clean spot on the engine/transmission and clip the other end to a clean bolt on the body, or even directly to the battery negative terminal. If that works you can chase down where the ground straps are and clean/replace them, or even add some more if desired.
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Год назад
Usually yes, but this was a very special case that I can't quite explain haha
@deepsquat600
@deepsquat600 Год назад
You guys remember the one that SEMA auto had a while back where one of those particular ground straps on I don't know what vehicle it was had broken h was causing strange issues
@generaldisarray
@generaldisarray Год назад
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics very true. Given the modern car is basically a computer, or 3, on wheels, and computers are known for their serious dislike of power fluctuations, most "weird" issues, from a Christmas tree dash to the all light bingo of the flashing rear lights, or rapid indicator flashing, is usually down to bad grounds or power connections, which are always a pain in the ass to track down.
@deepsquat600
@deepsquat600 Год назад
@@generaldisarray A3? I know mine only has one but hasn't even come across like a BMW that had like 12 different modules?
@generaldisarray
@generaldisarray Год назад
@@deepsquat600 and they seem to put all the modules/computers in the most idiotic places where moisture, etc is most likely to get into them
@timjackson1904
@timjackson1904 Год назад
Talking earths reminded me of a mistake I made replacing the starter on my Metro (UK). All ok till I went out in the evening with the headlights on. Next thing I know, the throttle pedal gets sticky so without thinking, I gave it a tap with my foot to rev it. The pedal went to the floor and stayed there, the car accelerated of down the road at full throttle, eventually I stood on the brakes but it still kept going. Just before I ran off the road at a corner, I turned off the ignition and just ran up the verge a bit as the steering lock came on!. After changing my trousers, I found that I had not connected the starter earth causing the current to flow up the throttle cable. OK till I turned the headlights on, causing it to get so hot the cover melted seizing the cable at full throttle. Could have quite serious but now an amusing story for the lads. Enjoy lol.
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Год назад
Can you just shift to neutral to stop the acceleration? 😁
@timjackson1904
@timjackson1904 Год назад
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I remember dipping the clutch and it sounded like the engine would explode causing a bit of a panic, so then the not to effectual braking with the clutch engaged, then the 'just turn it off idea'. Its a lot easier to think straight when your not in a panic lol! I think it played on my mind that the wife had totaled our main car with weeks till insurance payout and the metro was all we could afford so I couldnt afford to 'break' it and the runaway engine noise sounded terminal and expensive.
@petepeabody8905
@petepeabody8905 Год назад
So the initial look saw no hacks jobs like the other Volvo, but it was even worse when it's not obvious. It took time and all is well. Great job Ivan I enjoyed this journey
@dans_Learning_Curve
@dans_Learning_Curve Год назад
How true!!
@Land2020-w6w
@Land2020-w6w Год назад
Ivan, you definately a Master Tech and has so much patience. Excellent video and learned so much from your previous videos. Plase keep it up. Absolute genius.
@mazdaman1286
@mazdaman1286 Год назад
Quite common on European cars, the ground cable goes from battery earth to the body then continues onto the transmission or engine block. This is a failure point because the engine rocks and gradually the strands in the cable by its fixing start to break (Audi VW group, Peugeot Citroen Renault and Nissan ). In virtually every case I had to deal with a new battery had been fitted. On my own Citroen as a precaution I installed a cable from the battery to the cylinder head and one to the body , I did notice the lights were brighter.. Also Volvo were close to Renault and shared some parts. It was quite common to have bad crank sensors , easy to diagnose as there was no rev counter flicker, so much so many kept a spare sensor and 10mm spanner in the glove box !!
@mattbrown5511
@mattbrown5511 Год назад
It is nice that your friend could give you some insight to the cause of the problems plaguing the Volvo. Now, I hope the owner will address the rest of the issues caused by the former work done to the vehicle.
@faxmen09
@faxmen09 Год назад
Maddening! I'm sure owner paid good $$$$ to get the rear main seal fixed, only to have a half-assed repair. Bolts left off bell housing causing other issues. smh. Fortunate to have other Volvo there and helpful to have friend to drop some valuable tsb knowledge on you. Kudos to the commenter on first vid mentioning ground contacts. I'll be checking next one. Seems you may have a Va. Volvo diagnosis/repair pipeline going. 😀
@ApexHotShot
@ApexHotShot Год назад
Ivan, you impress with each diagnosis and repair. I really like that you typically wrap up with careful thinking … like a lessons learned session. Also, I would never have thought to epoxy that broken holder for the crank position sensor but it makes sense and saves your customer the cost of a replacement and the time to source one. Thanks for bringing us along for the ride.
@caseypowell9030
@caseypowell9030 2 месяца назад
As a subscriber i dont know why u dont get a million views i remember seeing you on SMA 8 yrs ago good work
@dougkubash8673
@dougkubash8673 10 месяцев назад
I wrenched for 45 yrs. plus and learned you can't take nothing for granted. Who would have thought the starter cranks over fine but it still wasn't a good enough ground! Good job!!
@Hybriddiag
@Hybriddiag Год назад
Ivan! As working in automation industry from long time and plc programmer i noticed proximity sensor is mounted in a plastic housing instead of metal..as i know these sensors if you mount it in a electrically noisy environment it gose nuts even small magnetic field disturb its performance thats why 3 wire proximity switch is better and most use that now.cheers waiting for final results
@joepalovick1915
@joepalovick1915 Год назад
Great case study Ivan. I really enjoy watching you apply engineering logic and principles in your work. It’s fantastic. I’m guessing very few auto techs would be able to track down a bad ground like you did even if you got a tip from a friend.
@scottleary6055
@scottleary6055 5 месяцев назад
Ivan, I have a 2004 Volvo V 70, a few years ago I had a cranking starting issue. I searched it, and finally came across to one Internet conversation that said the starter when it wears out, starts to draw more amperage and interferes with the crank sensor wire, I replaced the starter and all the problems were fixed. Anyhow the crank sensor wire is very close to the starter and the electronic interference causes crank issues. The ground for the starter and shielding for the crank wire is important. You stumbled on some thing that not many people know about at all, very good diagnosing skills you have.
@luckyguy600
@luckyguy600 Год назад
You are a 'tenacious kind of guy'. Many, and that includes me, would have given up a long time before we went that far. You're a good technician. Two thumbs up.
@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT
The rabbit hole of bad power grounds, but this was very elaborate, because the sensor was right in the middle of the ground path. Great job, Ivan! Now on to problem #2 - start/stall. It sounds like fuel thirsty but, who knows - you always surprise me with odd causes :-)
@davidturner4639
@davidturner4639 Год назад
Good hunting Ivan! I often will add additional grounds, especially with trunk mounted battery, on older vehicles (Miatas).
@secretsquirrel9722
@secretsquirrel9722 Год назад
I suppose I shouldn't be. But I'm amazed at just how many cars you repair that come down to almost criminal work from another shop/mechanic!
@jamesbruno5896
@jamesbruno5896 Год назад
Had a Subaru setting a code for the upstream 02 sensor which the dealer replaced. Car ended up here & i found both engine to subframe grounds rotted off. Replaced both grounds & the O2 sensor cleared! Nice diag Ivan I feel your pain!
@mph5896
@mph5896 Год назад
I just pulled a 2.5 for a rear main and torque converter seal. Both of those grounds crumbled when touched.
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Год назад
Those little braided straps? They are pretty useless lol I just pull off the remains. How does that have anything to do with the oxygen sensor? 🤔
@user-nq4zt4xu2t
@user-nq4zt4xu2t Год назад
Wow) the extra injectors pulse surprised me, never seen that before (diesel engine -yes, gasoline- no). It’s good to know. That’s why PHAD is my favorite yt channel. Free awesome knowledge, who wouldn’t like to get it?
@LesReeves
@LesReeves Год назад
Eric O is really good with finding ground problems but I think even this one would have had him stumped.Cheers. It will be good to see what is stopping it idle now.
@robertheim352
@robertheim352 Год назад
Thanks Ivan, another good example of logical circuit analysis. Two symptoms pointed toward that degrading circuit (aka ground): 1. The problem degraded with time, 2. the problem changed with temperature of the engine. (These are small signal sensors, so the signal strength seen at the computer was degrading by means of common mode noise.) When the customer paid for an oil seal and received the car with an issue ( long crank time before start ) they should have insisted on analysis. Of course, with the sloppy work that you found I expect the customer may have not received any satisfaction.
@robc3056
@robc3056 Год назад
Morning dude ! Good old fashioned sunday morning entertainment good to see someone whos walks the walk..
@tracydiller9378
@tracydiller9378 Год назад
Great video Ivan as always, it's good to have people in the industry that we can talk to. Todays vehicles are so complex that even the simple bad ground can cause so many issues. Going to watch part 3 .
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Год назад
This was by far not a "simple" bad ground 😉
@tracydiller9378
@tracydiller9378 Год назад
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 100% agree was much more but that ground did not help.😁
@jennieroque169
@jennieroque169 11 месяцев назад
My wife's 2004 Volvo XC90 has been having the same issue you've discussed.... you provided an excellent detailed approach to diagnostics. Thank you so very much! ROCK ROQUÉ
@zoobydoo2518
@zoobydoo2518 Год назад
Great diag. Supports importance of good grounding with all the electronics on new cars. 1 volt drop on ground during crank was a clue. Wonder what that would have been if scope ground was at Battery? Ivan usually shoots for less than 1/2 volt ground drop. Adding another ground strap to engine bolt may be beneficial to prevent future problems when age and corrosion come to call again. Maybe also check ground wire to ECM ground point from body and ground at Battery to body. Can’t wait for part #3.
@mikechiodetti4482
@mikechiodetti4482 Год назад
Ground problems. Good old ground problems! Throw in electronics with a "sensitive" ground point or "must see this absolute no-higher ground point"(such as no higher above ground than 10mv) and here we go with "not-so-fancy" brackets allowing extra micro volt and micro amp drops, all equaling a long crank/hard start. Where others would have quit, YOU are persistent! Very Good Fix Ivan, Very Good Fix ! ! ! I need to make a diagnostic chart for a hard or no start, using this video's steps. I've only seen a few like this at work before retirement, but when dealing with milivolts, miliamps, micro volts and micro amps, every electrical connection is on the list of potential problems. ESPECIALLY DURING CRANKING! My apology for the long comment.
@JoelAutomotiveInaction
@JoelAutomotiveInaction Год назад
At minute 6:29 I see Ivan you had the ckp sensor inside a magnet tray, that is very danger for the sensor I have seen it multiple times before whem you place them near to any magnet devise , the magnet on the sensor can chage polarity and give you inverted sigal messing with the computer clock programming. Nice case study thanks for sharing 6:29 g 👍
@nabeeljacksonrhoda6480
@nabeeljacksonrhoda6480 11 месяцев назад
I've got similar signal codes from the crank sensor and coil packs when I purchased it. Currently tracing all wires from sensors to the ecu to check for continuity issues. But this video was helpful to add some depth to the task and avoid missing important checks, especially the ground wires. Much respect from Cape Town, South Africa
@leonardgucciardo8386
@leonardgucciardo8386 Год назад
I can’t believe the shoddy mechanics out there. When I was in business and had a shop I took pride in my work. Maybe it’s because I was an aircraft mechanic before I worked on cars and had extreme discipline in reassembly. Now I am too old to do this work and I have to rely on Mickey Mouse to fix my cars. I would go nuts thinking they left bolts out of my cars. Ivan I see you were raised right and have the same ethics that I had. If you were an aircraft mechanic I would never worry about the plane I am flying in. You are one heck of a great mechanic.
@lauriaboone845
@lauriaboone845 Год назад
Even I as a woman know to stop when the temp gauge acts wonky. I had a leak in the coolant reservoir and found it quickly cause my temp gauge started dancing around, never to the point of overheating. I pulled off at the next exit and put some water in. As they didn’t have antifreeze. I know water is better than nothing. When running low. I made it back home and found micro cracks in the reservoir.
@jeffryblackmon4846
@jeffryblackmon4846 Год назад
Grounds, and electrical connections in general, seem more important with all the computers nowadays. Great work, Ivan!!
@diablo7322000
@diablo7322000 Год назад
There's an old TSB about this, I couldn't find it on VIDA, but its there. EDIT: never mind, just read the video description and got to 16:45.
@cliff499
@cliff499 Год назад
As a tech myself. Mostly ford. I really enjoy your videos. Please please keep filming !!! We need you !!
@isalmankhan1
@isalmankhan1 Год назад
First of all congratulations, you fixed it, this is a totally surprising one where any part can be replaced easily, bcuz of no service info😇 Great work as usual BRO😍
@Nemesis-yn5wv
@Nemesis-yn5wv 9 месяцев назад
I have seen a bad ground cable/connection or even a failing starter motor cause a long crank and or not start on volvos. But I have never seen missing eng/trans bolts and poor contacts causing it so that’s a first for me. I’ll keep it in mind when doing things like clutches or diagnostics 👍.
@DuaneDonaldson
@DuaneDonaldson Год назад
I have watched all your videos since last December, you live in a salt state or heavy corrosion area, I don't remember you ever adding any redundant grounds or jumper cables from the battery GND to the engine block for example, maybe you have? I lived in Japan for 20 years and repaired many ground problems with an EARTHING KIT and found the problem by jumping the engine to the battery or body/chassis and the Tokyo area is more famous for salt sea air and surface corrosion. Throwing on a set of jumper cables is one of my first steps. Thank you for the hundreds of awesome videos, hope to meet you when I move back to the USA someday in the near future, currently in the Philippines. Out of 200 technician/diagnostician (no DIYers) Channels, you are my #1, cheers.
@deepsquat600
@deepsquat600 Год назад
Not that I would have ever found this... My 2010 Yamaha fjr1300. As a known similar problem to such an extent that the previous owner to me had the entire wiring harness rebuilt ... My bike has like 7 known ground places that you have really have to watch out for corrosion... I also used to own a 91 Corvette... It was also known for a few suddenly had problems with the engine not starting you had to really take a look at the ground first.... Again I would never offend the problem you did on the Volvo even with this information in the back of my head. Awesome job my friend
@Garth2011
@Garth2011 Год назад
Its always convenient when you have the right tool in stock to make a job go smoothly like the pilot brush and ratcheting end wrench. That pilot brush might just be the norm when cars come in for repairs...first thing, clean up those grounds once determined by visual inspection. Time for an oil and filter change and maybe a fresh tank of gas. Tire pressures likely need looked into.
@Sandmansa
@Sandmansa Год назад
Nice find Ivan. I'm shocked that this is not a TSB. Because it happens A LOT. If you separate the engine from the trans, you absolutely have to clean the mating surfaces before you put them back together. And securing all the case bolts is necessary. All the engine electronics get the bulk of the ground through that mating surface. Sure, there are a couple of support grounds from the valve cover to the body, but they are not enough to overcome the draw from the starter. I've spent nearly 13 years working on nothing but those Volvo's. So if you need a spot of advice, I believe I can be of help. The last issue has to be one of 2 things. Either the MAS is bad. Which is kind of rare. Or there is a massive air leak somewhere after the MAS housing, to the throttle body. Most likely, one of the boost hoses have come off or has broken. I'm really looking forward to part three. You're in my wheelhouse now and this is great stuff for me. Thanks for sharing Ivan.
@EngineerLewis
@EngineerLewis Год назад
Great video Ivan and I have already checked my Volvo 3.0 -ve straps! All good thankfully and no bolts missing from my bell housing! 👍
@dans_Learning_Curve
@dans_Learning_Curve Год назад
How many miles on your car? How close to Ivan do you live?! LoL 😅
@EngineerLewis
@EngineerLewis Год назад
@@dans_Learning_Curve mine has just 130,000 miles but I live in the UK so too far away from Ivan . 🤣
@fredsalter1915
@fredsalter1915 Год назад
Powers and GROUNDS 🙂 Great vid, Ivan!!
@zackarymcclain164
@zackarymcclain164 Год назад
Thanks for the shoutout Ivan. I’m a Volvo fanatic and I’m glad I could help. Awesome video!
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Год назад
I still want scope proof of why the ECM wasn't happy with the original CKP signal 😂
@zackarymcclain164
@zackarymcclain164 Год назад
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics test it out
@dustcommander100
@dustcommander100 Год назад
Great work, including knowing who to chat with and the need for more info! Think about this: in our daily lives, what do we interface with that is more complicated than a vehicle? Computers and cell phones operate in much more ideal conditions, and don't interface with anything mechanical!
@oscillation_overthruster
@oscillation_overthruster Год назад
Ivan, your channel and your humility are infectious. I came across an s80 with the t6. And as it came out of your mouth about the tsb, I went "oh, yeah..I remember that." I had the same symptoms. However, I gave up on it because I didn't want to reseat the transmission which is what the tsb says to do. And, I'll be damned to find you discovered it was just the shitty ground wire connections. I didn't fix it and donated the car. Arrgh I with I had it back now. It was mad fast when it worked.
@metoon3092
@metoon3092 Год назад
A wise -old- young Russian gentleman once had a RU-vid channel, and he often said *Powers and Grounds* . Hmm, who could that be. 😆 - I'm enjoying this one Ivan. Good Job!
@stevex3976
@stevex3976 Год назад
Ground is ground the world around....except when it isn't ground! Great job.
@WECB640
@WECB640 Год назад
Ivan, I see this issue becoming more commonplace as auto technology advances. Noise on the line is corrupting the data feeding into the ECU. It becomes worse when the impedance for the data inputs at the ECU are higher. Ferrite beads, twisted pair and bypass capacitors are often not designed into the circuit due to profit margins. That starter is producing a ton of noise from the brushes arcing and Volvo is relying solely on the ground connection to shunt that noise. I might suggest a ground strap between the transmission and the engine and also a 0.1uF capacitor right at the positive connection of the starter and the other capacitor lead connected to a ground bold (again at the starter) to give that noise a dead short. This will keep the noise from propagating through the data lines. It forms a RC type low pass filter. Without that capacitor (actually should be one inside the starter....but that's another story), it is up to the very low impedance of the ground connection to provide an easy path for the noise to go to ground an not to the ECU. The problem is, even if there is a low DC ohmic value on the ground, there is generally higher ohmic value at RF (noise) due to wire length (inductance). This was a GREAT video series. Wishing you continued success. 😎👍
@davidcraven277
@davidcraven277 Год назад
Years ago we had a 4.6 in a mustang come in after an engine install we found the wiring for the can link to close to the alternator moved to the correct routing and ran fine
@billziegmond4943
@billziegmond4943 Год назад
Great diagnostic. You called me the regional Saturn Astra tech. I think you have become the regional Volvo tech.
@huntnfishnuts5880
@huntnfishnuts5880 Год назад
It’s nice to have a known good signal for scope work, more so when your working on something unfamiliar.
@wallace3953
@wallace3953 Год назад
Also, pls think about Installing some "Ground Strap" connectors between the engine and the transmission housing....amybe a few more locations....You Decide! You never quit, you always WIN!!!
@major__kong
@major__kong Год назад
Interesting. Reminds me of an exhaust gas temperature (EGT) sensor in an airplane that works on millivolts like a flame sensor in a furnace. If you have a bad ground anywhere near that thing, it will let you know. I wonder in modern cars with all the electronics if checking and cleaning grounds goes near the top of the diag tree.
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Год назад
It's crazy that the ground checked out fine, but improving the ground fixed the car 😂
@Ianf1x
@Ianf1x Год назад
I would add another earth from main earth to bell housing with jump lead. Bad maf can also make car run poor . I know you're a top notch tech .But I like to add a comment every now and then.😁
@zoobydoo2518
@zoobydoo2518 Год назад
I agree adding another ground strap to trans / block bolt could prevent future problems when age and more corrosion happens.
@AP9311
@AP9311 Год назад
Well, it wouldn't be PHAD if there's part 3, lol. Interesting diagnosis! Bad ground! Not bolting up all the parts back in is sloppy work!! Great to see it fired right up! Awesome part 2!! Great video Ivan!
@michaeljohnson1006
@michaeljohnson1006 Год назад
I like the sound of the good old volvo 2.5 5 cylinder engine. My dad had one in his Renault safrane it was 170 bhp none turbo but went well. I had an intermittent fault crank sensor on a 2.0l hdi Peugeot 406. You could move the body of the sensor and get the resistance to change when you measured it with an ohm meter. But the fault code was crank and cam sensor so I just replaced both with genuine Peugeot ones they were about £50 for both and it's just not worth getting stranded. The good thing was the fault appeared on the drive on starting than goodness.
@voffchik26
@voffchik26 10 месяцев назад
Had the same issue with my Xc70 It wasn't a ground cable that caused the issue. It was the missing bolt. In my case all bolts were there but not tight enough. Added extra 30lbs to all of them and cured the car
@mrjsv4935
@mrjsv4935 Год назад
Interesting case, nice to see the ground fixed but I guess there's more problems.
@davidhollfelder9940
@davidhollfelder9940 Год назад
Maybe I’d run a #4 wire from the engine block to the batt neg, bonded to the trans and body along the way.
@newjerseybill3521
@newjerseybill3521 Год назад
It would have been interesting to put the scope between the engine block and chassis ground, see what voltage drop / noise developed there in addition to transmission to chassis.
@fwgmills
@fwgmills Год назад
That has to be the most humbling diag ever! Great job!
@wrarraven
@wrarraven 6 месяцев назад
Great video! I think I'm experiencing the same issue with my xc90, and your reasoning is very helpful. Would you mind sharing the oscilloscope channel to sensor setup so I can compare what I'm seeing? I'm new to this, need a little bit of help!
@keltecshooter
@keltecshooter Год назад
This is like the Nissan Maximas , don't remember the years but the fix was to remove transmission and clean both mounting surfaces.
@LeverPhile
@LeverPhile Год назад
Is that all? Yikes ...
@Ram14250
@Ram14250 Год назад
Your Mastery of skill in diagnosing is mind blowing! You are a master diagnostic super hero!
@paulmuff9883
@paulmuff9883 Год назад
I don’t know about this engine but earlier I think in part one you mentioned about crankshaft oil seal, when I bought my Volvo with a D5 engine my mate who’s a Volvo tech/ manager told me to be very careful with the oil level and told me NEVER fill beyond the full mark infact a little below is best because you’ll blow oil seal’s if you do 😱
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Год назад
Interesting...
@carguy0000
@carguy0000 Год назад
I had all sorts of different issues with my 2006 P.T. Cruiser ended up being a bad ground >> one bolt with all the connectors located under the battery tray on the fender well > I added extra ground cables i purchased on eBay >> been perfect ever since ...
@windward2818
@windward2818 Год назад
The 2.5 VDC bias voltage means the VRS zero cross detect circuit uses a virtual ground at 2.5 VDC (which is one half the 5 VDC supply). This is done to avoid having +/- power supplies on the VRS conditioning and detect circuit. However, after designing several versions of this interface circuit on the bench, I really like the split supply versions because they also support a bi-voltage noise blanker (+/- comparator supply with symmetric hysteresis) which I think is a much better approach. Meaning, the VRS is an AC signal sensor (voltage above and below ground) and it makes more sense to condition the input with an AC type interface circuit. To verify engine positional inputs you should look at both the CNK and the CAM. If the vehicle has variable CAM timing then look at the base or reference CAM signal as a base line. I think the MAF sensor is critical for the cold start strategy. The ECM might use a MAF multiplier based on engine coolant temperature for enrichment during cold start. To not have a dedicated starter return ground wire going back to the battery in the trunk is just crazy. You cannot rely on a chassis return for starter currents. I have never seen this in a post 1990 vehicle with the battery in the trunk. In fact this is one of the very first thing harness engineers (usually as a starting intern before graduation) learn when they start working at the OEM. That is, always establish how load return current flows, especially for heavy loads like the starter, and if you use the chassis as return you essentially do not know the return path, or if the return path is even stable when the body flexes. In fact in moving a battery from under hood to the trunk the starter power feed and return are usually 1 AWG copper. High stranded welding cable is very popular. But, you can also use high stranded tinned marine wire, which is more corrosion resistant. For electrical noise you would want to run the red power feed and the black return next to each other. That is, minimize the circuit loop area. The question I like to ask is why is the unitized steel body shell considered an adequate ground? Steel as compared to copper is not a good conductor, especially for a starter current return. If you modulate the reference ground because of a high common ground impedance (bad connections) and high currents (starter) you will not be able to pick out the CNK signal from the common mode noise. This is why it is crazy to not have a dedicated starter return cable to the battery in the trunk. A good test would be to temporaraly add a large 1 AWG cable from the point on the chassis under hood to the point on the chassis near the battery NEG, essentially shunting out the steel unitized body.
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Год назад
I've never seen a dedicated ground return cable on any vehicle with the battery in the trunk... 🤔
@windward2818
@windward2818 Год назад
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ivan, I misspoke, of course for production vehicles you are correct. When I commented I was thinking about the aftermarket retrofit kits. That is to address hard starts during winter the kit would provide a large ground wire which essentially bypasses the chassis. What is interesting is if you compare the resistivity of steel as compared to copper, or tinned copper if we look at lugs, because relatively speaking steel is not that great a conductor. Also, interesting is if you look closely at the chassis design try to imagine where the return current actually flows, and ask how does the current make it back to the battery NEG during cranking, what is the actual resistivity?
@davide.s.9880
@davide.s.9880 Год назад
Well SMA worked on a 2018 GM truck with all sorts of problems. Turned out that a breaded ground strap from body to frame corroded so bad it didn't have enough ground. Replaced it with a battery ground cable and it fixed everything. So I'm not suprised this one is having problems because of a ground.
@Uticagreens
@Uticagreens Год назад
I had a similar ground happen with a 03 Ram that had a Daimler PCB. The grounds had to be impeccable for it to start. The least bit of corrosion and it failed to start. Cleaned the main Ground from frame to engine block . . . and BINGO it started and ran like new.
@mcdk72
@mcdk72 Год назад
Your patience is extraordinary.
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Год назад
This one really tested my patience haha
@mcdk72
@mcdk72 Год назад
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 👍🙂
@urishaham2544
@urishaham2544 Год назад
I'd definitely torque to spec all accessible bellhousing bolts, given that some were missing altogether... Great work and diagnosis!
@truracer20
@truracer20 Год назад
This is what separates diagnosticians from the hacks that either cause these issues and can't ever solve them or take on the job of fixing the issue only to rack up a huge bill and still fail to solve the issue. A friend and I were just discussing the other night that grounds are nearly always at the root of electrical anomalies, too many mechanics never look at the grounds and therefore never find the problem. In this case @29:35 the anomaly was the fact that the ckp output was correct yet the ECM couldn't see it, and you were intermittently missing injector and coil pulse. And I think if you look farther there were other electrical codes seemingly unrelated to the crank no start that you dismissed early on to focus on the ckp code. Some times trying to evaluate all the codes to find the problem leaves you with no direction, but sometimes only focusing on one code leaves you with tunnel vision blinding you to the big picture.
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Год назад
What other codes were related? 🤔
@a_w_bukhari7579
@a_w_bukhari7579 Год назад
A PHAD morning video is always entertaining. Thanks Ivan.
@ALEX-xd7ko
@ALEX-xd7ko Год назад
I had a similar fight with a Nissan recently. Would loose signal to the back half of the truck . All grounds looked good all grounds passed load tests, but during cranking when i couldn't catch it on my testing equipment i would loose ground . Spent an entire day chasing it then just decided to run a battery ground back to the f.p ground and walaa . Runs like a champ. Ive now built an 8ag 15ft jumper to test with lol.
@sonmorenophx
@sonmorenophx 3 месяца назад
hi hey a have a question what software is that in your laptop? please help
@robertoruiz7069
@robertoruiz7069 Год назад
NOW it really getting interesting,IVAN.I think for a minute there you were actually speechless when it started right up.I thought i saw your chest puff up and the LOOK of WONDERMENT.I felt like what the hell,it couldn't be just the ground could it? I'm guessing here but i thought maybe the flywheel is bent or rust or the sensor ? i would myself take a heat gun to the sensor while scanning it to see if that changes when heated.OH also did you test the ohms on both sensors?Are They only hall effect or what?This video is great cause we can see it's a very tough case to pin down a in your face cause like the crusty s or broken wire,it's how i learn the most,thanks buddy
@ehsnils
@ehsnils Год назад
Ground faults are always interesting. I once encountered that on a car of a friend - turning left caused it to misfire and eventually it also misfired when running. When I connected test probes it started to behave correctly and I finally isolated that to bad grounding of engine ECU.
@baxrok2.
@baxrok2. Год назад
My early Mazda's also have that low voltage signal on the cam and crank sensors. Thanks Ivan!
@bareenlars
@bareenlars Год назад
Have this cam signal error on my mercedes (changed both cam and crank sensors), mabybee i need to chase my grounds too, thanks for this!
@kevin9c1
@kevin9c1 Год назад
I have concluded that it's a miracle these run at all.
@glenntownend9047
@glenntownend9047 Год назад
Hey. I love your videos. I live in Cyprus but am from UK. I had years repairing tvs in my shop. You are very patient guy. I had so many sleepless nights thinking about issues I left in the shop which I could not diagnose. You are clever man. I wish I had your patience. Customer is always right 😂
@user-nq4zt4xu2t
@user-nq4zt4xu2t Год назад
Damn) I can’t believe that this xc90 has the same typical issue as ancient 850 had 🤯 mind blown
@jimmyaber5920
@jimmyaber5920 Год назад
I had several R engine Volvos (aluminum 5, 6, and 4 cylinders from 1992 with aluminum block and head, not the new 😂2.0 4 cylinder that premiered in 2014), that would have no start and erratic crank sensor pattern. The cause was dirty bell housings surface. It would happen when trans and engine were separated, more likely when painted reman transmission was installed. The same failure would occur with faulty starters that dragged from bad bushings and had high current draw. The crank sensor and starter are 90 degrees apart. The suppression of magnetic field from starter affecting sensor afforded by aluminum block and trans was borderline and anything affecting it could give long crank or no crank. Usually when it did start it was when you released key from start and it happened to be at a moment when engine would have enough inertia to turn that wee bit more. The few manual trans models with issue would start with a fraction of a rotation when pushed and clutch released after failing to run with minutes of starter cranking. There also was a copper shield, basically a big washer, slipped under sensor bracket that was held in place on bell housing and sensor stuck through it to retain it. The FMEM for unplugged MAF on 99 and later is usually very good. The dirty bell housings cars would be fixed but loosening all bell housing bolts 5 turns and then prying the two apart. Then use a rifle cleaning brush and brake cleaner spray to clean all way around. Ground wires added would not fix these but cleaning bell housing face fixed them.
@rhkips
@rhkips Год назад
Working almost exclusively with body shops, I see a LOT of bad grounds, usually the result of overspray, painting where painting shouldn't happen, or bolts getting missed during reassembly. Excited to see what else is going on with this poor car! This generation of XC90 is usually pretty well behaved! Pretty pretty please though, get some bell housing bolts for this poor baby...
@CXensation
@CXensation Год назад
Fitting the missing transmission case bolts would sure help even further ....
@goodtimejohnny8972
@goodtimejohnny8972 Год назад
I suspect the engine needs to be removed again. The carrier plate is probably installed incorrectly after the rear main replacement. All bell housing bolts need to be installed and torqued to specification. Also check the vacuum hose routing to the TCV. Since that rear main seal job seems to be when the problem started I think you need to do the job again to find all of the problems caused by the seal installation. Especially since adding a bell housing bolt in part 2 helped. 😢
@GregoryGlessnerViolin
@GregoryGlessnerViolin Год назад
Keep calm, and check your powers and grounds. 👑
@ferrumignis
@ferrumignis Год назад
Someone totally nailed the transmission ground being the problem in the Part 1 comments, seems like a relatively common issue on these cars.
@brainndamage
@brainndamage Год назад
The fix for the design issue would be a ground cable directly from the engine block to the battery. No engine to transmission joint, no wire to body joint, no body to battery cable joints. Separate ground just for the body. Add a redundant ground from the engine block to the body.
@major__kong
@major__kong Год назад
You have to be careful sprinkling grounds around, especially with modern cars and all their electronics. Sometimes you can end up with a ground loop. Chasing those will make this look easy.
@thebigmacd
@thebigmacd Год назад
​@@brainndamageprevious volvos to this generation had dual ground straps from head to firewall.
@brainndamage
@brainndamage Год назад
@@major__kong I haven't seen a ground loop through the body yet. Losing the main engine ground is a much bigger issue that can fry stuff that is grounded to the engine, better to at least have a redundant body ground
@qhew
@qhew Год назад
amazing logic, that dc offset/mybe noise of increasingly bad earth affects TSC signal to computer. logically when you release the starter, with the starter current gone & dc offset gone, it should then start. but doesn’t. i can’t explain that. seems the tiny voltage of TSC sensor makes it super sensitive to offsets.
@ccmoos
@ccmoos Год назад
This is one of your best finds, I was so incredibly curious to see this part 2.
@Mr2004MCSS
@Mr2004MCSS Год назад
Definitely an interesting case study and shows the importance of good grounds. I bought a couple of those pilot brushes after your other video where you used one and have already used it a couple of times. It works great and I highly recommend getting one. I recently used it to clean up the ground connection on my flat bed trailer and now the lights work as they should.
@calvinogada3480
@calvinogada3480 Год назад
Loyal fun and student from Kenya Your videos educate me alot
@inekelassooij840
@inekelassooij840 Год назад
Dit is een interessant massa probleem bedankt voor de informatie ℹ️ geweldig gedaan ✅
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