Your Armor Plates Don't Expire - Ballistic Armor Myths 

To be fair you aren’t wearing your 50 year old kitchen and rolling around

"Swindled"....best description ever regarding the industry-wide plate expiration facade.

hahahah yes!

I thought I was trippin

@@aubrey5569 lol it was like negative 10 for the last few weeks... I was like "well... I got a funny idea"

@@ThinLineDefenseCo I look forward to the future.

@@jadedclone6728 haha Sunday's video is more ridiculous

I never can keep up with it all. I have hesco 4401s but then got told they were junk... Got other plates... Got told those were no good lol

Good Point. Im watching from up here in Canada. Currently Running 3+ as M855 is common but M855A1 is illegal. And even when I served its was un heard of for the forces up here.

@@ThinLineDefenseCo HESCO had an issue with NIJ pulling the 4600s for a short period of time as there was some QA/QC issues but I think those got fixed.

@@Ion610 Well US military and very likely the Canadian military, have M855A1 and M80A1. So there is that.

@@robertdole5391 I recently left the CAF less then a year ago. Was Infantry before becoming a boarding party specialist in the Navy. We never had m855A1 most people dont even know what it is. We were only ever issued M855 in Infantry when deployed and navy only ever ran standard SS109. Im assuming CSOR and the rest of the special forces run it but thats about it. Up here the CAF is a poor joke.

no one likes the "semantics" guy. you understood what was being said. Don't miss the forest for the trees.

@@ThinLineDefenseCo I mean if you're gonna be a smartass in a call out video you should expect people to call you out for being wrong in a video where you could have edited and reviewed every detail to seem as smart as you were acting. In reality none of this matters. You're gonna get clipped in the arm, hands, head, or legs just like the SOCOM boys do all the time with their fancy armor.

@@ThinLineDefenseCo Says the guy who made a video overviewing some redditor's essay on why you should buy his overpriced armor

wow love it man, I really appreciate it! -Walsh

I wear mine for push-ups now

yea I just work out in my crud. Steel is awesome to throw in a lapg low viz carrier too...just throw it around and let it get ruined. It'll still do fine. -Walsh

@@ThinLineDefenseCo Fellow cheapskate LAPG low vis carrier user?

@@Ironsight_Army Do pull ups too

Anti spall bag or wrap face past edges in kelvar n re linex......if you getting shot more than once to where plate starts to spall bullets you already f'd...ceramic nice to have but definitely do expire ..especially exposed to humidity n sunlight ...

Haha well now you can get a second carrier!! -Walsh

Just gift your old ones to your kids or relatives.

haha that says a lot, we have a lot of gems

ugh haha next time point at his toilet and be like "you don't think your toilet is going to last??"

m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aQ1gJoaA9tI.html Both spall, and Ceramic shatters. Steel definitely has its place and so does Ceramic. Realize the military uses Ceramic because they can afford to just switch it out if it gets hit and it's lighter weighted for better mobility. For normal consumers if SHTF, I wouldn't just want Ceramics, I'd want both. Spalling covers also exist which are replaceable for steel application. Ceramic pots from thousands of years ago wouldn't exist if ceramic did turn to dust. I'd run both because I can't afford sets on sets of ceramic for "just incase" lol.

Also food for thought, plain steel is No. No. Steel with Double coated liners is 100% good paired with a Spall Liner. Imagine the Ceramic test is 10lbs dropped at 4ft, twice. How would ceramic hold up if a 200lb man dove to prone haha.

Are you really comparing ceramic in armor to ceramic bathroom tiles? Completely 100% different. Ceramic armor does expire usually there good for like ten years. That’s why in the military you use shitty old plates as your training plates and you get good plates that pass inspection when you deploy.

@@RedForman22 Did you watch the video?

very interesting, so who makes ceramic+kevlar plates? What did you go with? Thanks

the same time your bathtub would expire I would say.... if you maintain your plates they can last a lifetime -Walsh

Thanks for watching and commenting. I had fun with this one lol -Walsh

Because you're a redditor who listens to brand shills

How can it become exposed if its sealed from direct light not to mention its probably put away in a place within armor.

Just worry about heat. Stay below 60 d C.

Yea the glue adhesion may wear down but the impact on anything would be nominal. The test the military did was to shoot plates like 40 years old. And those old plates were cracked and busted up too. But, they worked just fine to catch the round. The expiration date is just for a warranty. And that really only applies to departments and DoD entities for liability. -Walsh

​@@ThinLineDefenseCowhere the video? Ceramics definently become brittle in Armor form.

ehhh just be careful with a car because it can get really really stupidly hot. I bet it would be okay but I store mine in the car for the gym and I'm even iffy about it and usually bring it in to a locker.

@@ThinLineDefenseCo I even thought if I stored it inside of a container, would it be cooler, but I can't find any information about the subject.

I think their "warranty" is 5 years, but the plate isn't gonna turn into a pumpkin at 5 years and 1 day. We took old police soft body armor from the 90s out to the range and shot it up. It still stopped all of the 9mm we threw at it that day - Jason

You are a redditor

Bro... you seem to be watching and commenting on everything. That's awesome to give us such great support! I appreciate it -Walsh

I've always heard that too but it's nonsense. The glue doesn't stop bullets. The shell that holds the plates may get compromised faster but most plates are only rated for a few hits already. -Walsh

for both plates or one? And what threat level you need? III, III+, or IV? -Walsh

@@ThinLineDefenseCo sorry I didn’t clarify, Level IV And max budget upped to $550 preferably for Two plates

They are from a Canadian Company called Patch Panel We actually just learned of an American Company that does similar patches, Tactical Gear Junkies I'm going to order from both and compare them - Not Jason

@@ThinLineDefenseCo I have been using Patch Panel for several years. They make great, quality patches; many options.

You'd be packing a hell of a lot of weight with that configuration.

well lol besides your obviously broken caps Lock, you're also wrong. Not Marines.... Aim.... Higher instead lol -Walsh

@@ThinLineDefenseCo I stand corrected . Maybe it's the mannerisms . Regardless I still subscribed and liked . Oh and caps lock isn't broken it' spilled beer l makes it stick sometimes . That's my story and I'm sticking to it .

hahah well they're still good folks and I certainly don't take it offensively. But! Big thanks for subscribing and joining our little family here. Let me know if you need anything or have stuff you've been wanting to see -Walsh

Sorry to hear you're related to condescending snobs with small dick syndrome

I highly doubt it... That stuff does not break down. It's the warranty that runs out.

@@ThinLineDefenseCo Apreciate it.

@@ThinLineDefenseCo Exactly, I worked in the armor industry for about 5 years. The warranty is what expires, not the product. The armor is not milk, it’s not bad in 5 years and a day….it’s like your cars 3 year/36,000 mile warranty. The car did not go bad at 3 years and a day or at 36,001 miles….just the warranty. I could take a ten year old piece of armor that has been properly cared for with normal wear and tear and it would still perform within NIJ spec. Conversely, I could pull a brand new panel off the line and within a couple of hours make it fail.

Soft armor does fray the more it is bent around. This largely depends on how your soft armor is used. Concealed soft armor undergoes the most stress because it constantly bends. Soft armor plates will last forever. Resin soaked like fiberglass armor and such don't wear because the resin keeps the fibers locked but it is not flexible.

No, the spalling happens on the steel. Steel doesn't catch a round, it deflects it. So yes you could get it to work....by not using steel. And if the soft armor already stopped the round...then why would you need the steel? Regardless, steel is a bad choice. -Walsh

@@ThinLineDefenseCo would the soft armor stop a 5.56 out of a 20” barrel though? It might slow it down just enough and then catch the fragmentation? And I’m asking as someone who bought steel long ago when ceramic was ungodly expensive, and still balling on a budget. I am in agreement that steel is not a good choice anymore, but for those of us who have steel from the past.

Ar500 has awesome steel plates with heavy spall coating that prevents it completely. Do your research before you buy

@@rsm1161 truck bedliner does not stop spalling past MAYBE a round

@@ThinLineDefenseCo There are several ways to prevent spalling on steel, you smoothbrain

we could but here's what happens. The spall travels along the length of the plates and destroys the liner in 2-3 shots. After that all the metal sprays out the side. So....not so great. -Walsh

@@ThinLineDefenseCo AR500 isn't the only kind of steel armor

it's rarely the tank. It's usually the valve

no, because poly also catches the round. steel defects it.

@@ThinLineDefenseCo Thanks. So I'll use poly or ceramic on my body and I'll use steel in a book bag as a shield in front of me 😉.

(Gasp!)...say it ain't so! - Jason

Hah I think I'd be more comfortable with expired plates .. if I knew what they were. Maybe not ones from the Marines though.... I'd have assume someone chewed on them...Lol -Walsh

We use PE for new gas mains. Can’t be in the sun in one of the construction yards for more than two years. But once installed underground, it’s rated for over 50 years. So I’d imagine with the wrapping on PE plates and being in a carrier, they should last a while. I never bought the 5 year timeframe stated by the manf

This scares me that you're thinking this is correct. You're telling me ceramic bits from a plate are the same as metal shrapnel from a bullet? I'd recommend talking less until you're smarter. Not being a dick but... seriously. -Walsh

uhh sure...and killing your teammates in the process.

@@ThinLineDefenseCo come on, you have no evidence that it will “kill your teammates”. What happened to sticking to “actual and accurate information” you presented in your video, which was good by the way.

@@ThinLineDefenseCo Pfff. No comment? You’ve just been Unsubscribed. You’re no different from the same nonsensical “google degree” expert you’re criticizing about..and smart approach (sarcasm) in gaining subscribers by being a smart ass with your own viewers comments 👍

what haha where does the bullet go? It just goes into magic land? good grief

@@ThinLineDefenseCo To be fair, if we assume it was nice and neat as the slomo, we're talking for example a 64 grain projectile being evenly split up and distributed across 180 degrees with less than 1/8 the velocity the original bullet had (a 90 degree angle change robs a massive amount of velocity) you get around 0.8 grain sized projectiles which is approximately 4x the weight of a single grain of sand. Again, perfect world and all that but in that scenario, what does get through is going to sting but isn't life threatening and would leave a red rash. By the time it gets anywhere near any of your buddies, the velocity will be drastically reduced due to how tiny the particles are so it probably won't even penetrate their clothing but would be a greater danger to their eyes. The bigger worry would actually be the jacket as that often does not come off all nice and neat, especially if it's a specially bonded jacket using an alloy like a lot of the Russian stuff that use a steel/copper alloy. F that. When you watch videos of fragmentation on steel plates, it's actually the pieces of jacket that pose the real risk, not the lead core inside. If you look at the slomo, the uneven jagged pieces are the jacket fragmenting randomly in chunks outward and that's what you see often does the most damage to the dummies people setup around the impact area.

Haha I am.... And it's absolutely freezing outside

no, most of that is kevlar or some crazy fabric. It doesn't degrade unless you're totally crazy with it -Walsh

p320. Grey ghost precision carry slide and x-carry grip

@@ThinLineDefenseCo thanks and that white and grey pattern is you own or?(Awesome build)

actually no. As mentioned in the video, the army tested damaged and 15 year expired plates and they still performed above spec. -Walsh

@@ThinLineDefenseCo Not even going to argue this moot point. We live in the digital age where anyone and everyone can witness with their own two eyeballs how ceramic armor options perform from perfect condition to compromised plates. Armor performance is documented fairly regularly all over the internet, this isn't US Army research lab unobtainium information.

so you're arguing to agree with me? okay. have a great day and you're wonderful?

Where did you get the patches made that are on your plate carrier? the ones that say wizzard and lev 22. I like the multicam with the red letters! I wanted to get some made with different words on them.. thanks Walsh love your videos!

@@420420420420moeller not sure if you saw the reply from Not Jason. I got those from Patch panel. I just made em custom in their little tool. Thanks for the kind words and for watching! -Walsh

who? the guys who I credited for the information I stole? watch out guys....we have a real detective here lol -Walsh

@@ThinLineDefenseCo @Thin Line Defense Co I'd like to see some spall tests with plates in a spall cover placed into a carrier the way they are actially worn and not just a bullet shot at a steel plate which is obviously going to spall same a steel target does like many of these youtubers with negative opinions toward it do. There are videos here on RU-vid that show the spall at a minimum if any when used properly. I'm a ceramics guy because A) lighter and thinner and B) once you buy good steel and spall protection you myswell have bought ceramic plates. Carriers actually catch some of the spall themselves. Not trying to argue on your video just putting down my opinion, I know its not a very popular one, and chances are I'd your taking rounds to the chest with either your out if the fight

we actually did that with the lapg lvl IV armor test and the spall just destroyed the carrier. It was crazy how shredded it got. I certainly wasn't expecting that. -Walsh

yes, ceramic shards are expelled as a result of the impact. But not metal shards. Plus the metal shards travel along the face of the plate while the ceramic shards follow newtons 3rd law... so the ceramic goes in the direction of the bullet impact. so yes... but no.... thanks to physics -Walsh

the Ceramic Fragmentation isn't a decelerated fragment of a 2800 fps projectile......

Kevlar? yea it's not going anywhere.

I've seen ceramic shards tear through a plate carrier, so keep telling yourself that

Though my testing was with russian equipment so take that for what it's worth

This is like wearing boxers over your G-string....

I believe I’ve seen enough videos with the spall liner working after multiple hits. It either works or it doesn’t so what’s wrong with wearing boxers over G string

Not really sure about that. I was in the military for 11 years and have been in Law Enforcement for 12 years now. I've never been issued steel plates. Almost any steel plate review on RU-vid (including the one Joe did for us) shows the effect of spalling. Is it deadly? I can't say for sure. Would it hurt to be hit by shrapnel? Yep - Not Jason

@@ThinLineDefenseCo thanks for the response! I appreciate the feedback and perspective. Guess I need to call Hesco today. Haha!

@@ThinLineDefenseCo No First World modern army uses steel armor. I'm not aware of any LEO using it, although it's possible that agencies with very poor budgets might be.

I think that's why we talk 20" barrels too. It's a smart solution if a nation decides to go the cheap route lol -Walsh

Agreed. Plus I use steel for airsoft and force on force training, things people need to do more than even live firing at the range.

@@joshuas390 😲😕🙄

@@joshuas390 Yep. Sorry you can’t see it.

@@joshuas390 Tell me you didn’t watch the video, without telling me that you didn’t watch the video. My comments about using them in combat and training also mean nothing apparently. If you wear steel plates, you’re a danger to yourself and to the allies around you; that’s not a concern with ceramic. Additionally, steel doesn’t absorb energy. You’re gonna be an unhappy camper if you take a round to the chest.

Right. I guess he didn't actually watch the video. He read the title and then commented

@@joshuas390 spall liner…….yeah I’ve never heard of that. I’ve certainly never seen it fail either. Well, Ironman, I wish you good luck with your armor of choice. 👋

who is no one? its a common conversation -Walsh

kevlar? It would take a few hundred years for sure.

Correct. It's more how long the insurance premium they have...will cover the plate.

armor insurance doesn't really matter because if the armor fails... you're dead.

@@DaveSmith-cp5kj The point is the litigation that the manufacturers will face so they are trying to protect themselves.

Mai werks sighted page!!!

hahah I made work -Walsh

Dude ceramic bathroom tiles are completely different than the ceramic used for armor. Most armor is good for like ten years, you know because you sweat on it or get it wet, or actually use it. That’s why the military rotates the old plates to training and you get new ones that are not old as fuck. Sure they will stop a bullet but the shit is expired. I have 12 year old e Sapis right now that need to be turned in because there going to be training plates

The medication argument is not a very good argument to make. Many of those "dry meds" are NOT chemically stable when exposed to oxygen or UV radiation and heat. Nearly all common pain killers break down into other components. The most common break down into esters that are the equivalent to vinegar. You lose effectiveness as the vinegar does nothing beneficial for you. This gets difficult though because you don't know the proper ratio of degradation which ends up leading to dosage errors and potential overdoses. As to the ceramic tiles, this is again a question of where that tire is taking that force. The face of a tile is designed to take the load/impact. Stand that tile on its edge and even lightly strike it with a hammer and watch it split into pieces. This is also a question of supported and unsupported. What breaks ceramics the most is flexing. Since they are extremely brittle materials, if they flex even a little bit, they go straight to breaking. A tile on the floor is prevented from flexing by the ground under it which prevents the tile from flexing. You can punch and pound on a tile that's properly laid on the ground and you won't break or crack it. Suspend that tile just by the corners and edges and you can punch right through it.

@@Talishar That isn't what the study found at all. Have you actually read it, or is your argument "The FDA was wrong. Trust me dude"? Sure, if you take the armor apart and hit the edges of the ceramic with a hammer, it will break. If I open gauze and cut them to tiny pieces with scissors, they aren't useful gauze anymore. If you torque test the armor and find it isn't broken, you're good to go. There isn't actually a need to X-ray them for small fractures, as another longterm study should conclusively, they still perform well above 100% of their rating. They don't expire on their own. Certainly not in 5 years. Yes, on a long enough time line, they, and everything else will. No one is telling you that you can't replace your plates every 5 years, every year, or after each day like a shirt. We're simply saying it isn't necessary. If that bothers you so much, go argue with the scientist about. Arguing with me is going to accomplish nothing. Same goes for the soldier above. I just saw that comment, but you're both saying the same thing anyway. If you break the ceramic, it's now broken. Agreed. That wasn't the argument. Have a good day.

@@bewbew0016 You're the one that apparently didn't actually read any of the studies on medication. What I said about painkillers for example is a known thing for years now. It gets trickier when we talk about other meds as those can have much different constituent chemicals that they were made from or react and change into wholly different chemicals which could potentially be very dangerous. You gave a ridiculous oversimplification of the study which I can bet isn't actually what the study truly said. The same is true for the ceramics. The ceramics for armor are a composite that are laid and set to receive energy in a very specific direction. That's what the example about the tiles are. You don't even have to wind up to hit a floor tile hard at all. The tiny tap from a hammer is far less force than what you can do when it's laying on the ground. That's why people in demonstrative martial arts use tiles to "break" in their demonstrations. They're a theoretically strong material that's very easy to break when you know how to specifically break them.

@@Talishar You just said you didn't read the study, but don't believe my generalization of the conclusion because it conflicts with your current understanding. Yes, it was simplified, but did it change what the findings were? No. Is medication an exact 1:1 example when compared to ceramic? No, and I think you know that, but you choose to play dumb when it benefits you. What does telling me ceramic is designed to take impact in one direction, but not another, have to do with it expiring due to time? And, isn't that an oversimplification of the very complex physics involved body armor and terminal ballistics? Hahaha. Again, I'm well aware of this, but it has nothing to do with time. Are you aware that if you take cheap ceramic floor tiles and combine them with a backing of PE or Kevlar, (essentially replacing ceramic for armor, with ceramic from a floor), it can stop rifle threats, including special threats, like M193 and M855? I know. Not if you hit them from the side or not if you break the ceramic to tiny pieces first. These are all arguments akin to saying rifle plates don't work because you can be hit in the face. Okay, I think that's all the time I'm willing to give you. The beginning of your last comment told me this is a waste of time. This probably won't be of any benefit to you whatsoever, but trying to use outliers to make an argument against what is most common, is a bad argument. There are some (but not most by any means) dry medications which do expire for a variety of reasons. There are some (but not most by any means, once again) people who are born with 9 fingers, but it's a bad argument to say that humans don't have 10 fingers because of this fact. I get it though. It's like second hand smoke not being especially harmful. You were told it was. There were manipulated studies (admitted by the people responsible for the studies) that showed it was. It seems perfectly logical that it would be particularly harmful. But it's not. Some things are just counterintuitive, or go against what you and I have been told for a very long time. So, believe it or don't. Again, don't just take my word for it. Go read the study on expired medications conducted for DoD by the FDA. Go read the studies on fractured ceramic armor, and how all of it (including very old "expired" armor) performed at a minimum of 115% and 110% respectively (if my memory serves). This was between micro fractures and complete fractures of monolithic strikefaces. Gauze doesn't expire. I would personally include Combat Guaze in that list. If you still reject all of that, I honestly don't care. You certainly can. If you have better evidence which can show me these studies were flawed and invalid, I'm open to it. You're just wanting me to join you in rejecting these conclusions, and I'm not sure why. If they are wrong, you have to do better than just saying "I just don't buy it" if you want me to agree with you. Okay, that's even more time than I wanted to spend, but I figured I'd leave you with some food for thought. I'll give you the last word here and won't respond to or refute whatever you say. Just to be fair about this. If I were you, I'd go actually check out these studies in order to come back here and just crush me. But if you did that, you'd just end up agreeing with me. 😉 haha. Take care, Talishar

are you repeating what I said for emphasis or because you didn't watch it? -Walsh

@@ThinLineDefenseCo i saw the whole thing

If your plate fails you got better things to worry about than a warranty.