@@ivannamendez8298 What are you talking about Republic Clone Troopers were the best trained soldiers in the galaxy. Bred from the earliest stages of infancy to fulfil their assigned roles within the Grand Army of the Republic. Each clone had at least 10 years of training and simulation training (thanks to the accelerated aging). The ones that have a reputation for bad aim are the imperial stormtroppers, who are recruits, not clones. Although this reputation is unwarranted because they literally explain in the movie that they were missing on purpose so Han and the others could escape to Hoth and they could follow them there and find the Rebel base. So in reality they don't have bad aim either. EDIT: Sorry I'm a Star Wars nerd and I got triggered lol.
I want Mandalorian Commando Armor or Old Republic armor in Lw Polyethylene layering a iiia body glove.....maybe even some lightweight alloy centered over hdpe on the spots likeliest to get hit. I say that yet all my shit is lw currently for mobility. would be cool to see. at 170lbs the average 30% of bodyweight kit "limit" doesn't leave but 15-18lbs for armor when adding general musette/pack, gunbelt and a rifle with support items :(. Lifting and lifting but cant seem to gain weight back.
While I can't speak to the adhesives used in it's assembly, the polyethylene core of that body armor won't degrade unless you're storing it in direct sunlight. HDPE is a very stable and chemically resistant plastic.
But it will seriously degrade from taking rounds of any kind or size ! I am inconcerned about the sun light at all and veryu concerned about not getting shot, even once. There is not yet an actaul replacement for steel and yes it is very heavy. Oh well ! As I see it it all depends on the threats you may encounter if known ?
2:12 "I got up [and] strapped on my [plate carrier and] just wore it around for an hour and a half." I felt immediately accepted and that I was no longer alone. Right in the feels.
@@Blap552 I run a 3.5 pound III+ in the front and .5 pound IIIA rigid plate in the back of my carrier. Decent enough protection while not being much of anything weight-wise.
RU-vidr: don’t buy steel, it’s too heavy and it’s not level 4 Me: mkay makes sense Same youtuber: don’t buy ceramic it can’t stop more than a few rounds Me: oh okay yeah that makes sense Me: So wait which one do I get?
Light And Strong whichever it is. Keep asking guys,you definitely don't want to be Weighed down too much. Then Train And Work out,Cardio too. Confident and Lightfooted!!🫡🇺🇸
South African armed responder here. I wear armor 12 hours a day every day. Have been involved in and seen many many shooting incidents of all kinds. From homemade pipe gun assasinations to heavy hunting rifle self defense shootings to full on small scale war like cash in transit shootouts and everything in between. The comfort factor of carrying less weight for similar or arguably better performance is a no brainer. Trust me a steel based vest will spend most of its time in the car boot. Mobility is also way better with lighter Armour especially when scaling fences etc regularly. Steel also seems to heat up and retain body heat more. A factor in hot climates. Amd once toluose steel ates get some sun on them forget about it. I have also seen a colleague drowned because of steel plates. Furthermore the injuries sustained from bullet fragmentation off of steel is simply catastrophic. And that is with all types of liners. It simply does not work reliably. Remember most tests have bullets hitting at close to 90°. Omqgine a bullet hitting at an angle, fragmenting and then going on throug a limb. Mincemeat is putting bit mildly.I would rather get shot through and through instead in some instances. Best mix for my purposes is ceramic over hdpe with kevlar behind that.
this is most probably the best Input from a user of body armor that I've read since I keep revolving my mind around wether to buy PE/UHMPWE or AR500 steel plates. there's a Swedish company that sells spall covers, but yeah. your Input is invaluable. thank you, good luck and stay safe!
the price of Freedom is constant alertness and willingness to fight back. our patriots defending Ukraine and fighting for Freedom. many people joining territorial defense forces without any basic protective gear and body armor ... is anyone willing to help with SAPI plates level 4 to protect people's lives???
The buoyancy discussion reminded me of my Fire Acadamey training course where we were supposed to, while wearing a full set of turnouts and a steel training tank/rig, "use our helmet to scoop an air bubble under the surface and place it between your legs and sit on it for flotation...". It worked less well then I imagined when they gave us the instructions LOL. Great content as always mate. Love the channel. Best to you and yours.
so you arent old enough to remember the pants sailors wore on the WW1 and 2 ships? the bell bottoms were huge and supposed to hold air if you fell overboard.
Hey VSO, Actually you only need one plate on the front chest. If you get shot in the back the front plate will still stop the round as it passes through. LOL Great info for the plate buyer.
The UHMWPE model doesn't have a strike face per say. All of its layers of UHMWPE that when pressed together and autoclaved, essentially become it's "strike face/core/fragmentation containment. Bullet enters plastic, melts the plastic, then it rehardens and catches the bullet. Jacket fragments and other material that shed from the bullet get contained in the many layers. A pure UHWMPE I would say is very robust. Falling on it, taking non ballistic threat strikes to it, will be fine. It's biggest determinant is heat. They supposedly don't like prolonged heat, and a lot of internet myth seems to imply if you leave it in your car trunk for quite some time, will cause the layers to delaminate. Likely a bit of truth to that, but a time here or there isn't going to kill a UHWMPE plate. I think the biggest downside to pure UHMWPE plates is their inability to stop M855. They have the reverse problem of steel armor. PE is very good at stopping lead core speed such as M193, but hardened materials even at slower speeds present a problem. Steel on the other hand, can stop M855 and even M855A1 (under 3000 fps so SBR), but it has trouble with true spec M193 (typically over 3000 fps). Hybrid (ceramic/pe) seem to offer a good compromise to being able to stop a wide threat profile, and in some cases, an NIJ Level IV Certified plate can be as cheap as the steel offering. Most of those are single curve however at that price point. They can still take a good beating (most good NIJ 06 will have a foam strike face protector, as well as a ring on the outer perimeter of the plate edge), but some care should be applied.
thats a great post. if we could just have the best and the lightest and the cheapest combined. i want to know what, added behind, will help UHMWPE stop the APs.
I have purchased the steel caliber plates. I noticed the curves are quite aggressive so I wonder how well it would work against spalling if you flipped the plates. Use the curve to deflect the spalling more. That would make for an interesting video I think. Great customer service also.
Most steel plates have coating on them to reduce spalling so flipping it around would have the steel in the front rather than the coating so spalling would be a huge issue if you choose to do that.
@@bensmith9164 getting shot in the shoulder, exposed stomach or any other unprotected area will also get you killed. the coverage area of the vast majority of these plates is hilarious. But touching on Steel vs others, steel is the only single layer product tested. If you want to prevent fragments, cover the steel in Kevlar or similar materials. It's not often you see ceramic armors tested with multi hits in the same area.
After watching so many vso vids trying to determine what plate and carrier setup I found myself confused as to what I should go for. While unlikely as hell there are scenarios where 1 setup can be detrimental but that same setup might be perfect for this other scenario. So I've decided to suck it up and invest money into no less than a couple. 1 down, working on the other and am thankful for this channel and the useful info it brings.
Dumb question can you fit the poly in front of the steel plate and wear it as double protection? I understand it would weigh more but wouldn't it help with the deformity of the poly plate after being shot several times
Why don't they put a lip directing outwards on the top of the steel plate? Even a large weld bead on the edges? Something to direct blast at least from your neck if the coating fails.. How about you test it
I agree I think the design of the plate as is, very solid but IMO a good switch these armor company’s should be doing is putting at least a quarter inch increased strength barrier on the outside edge. If you take a shot to the edge of the plate.. without reinforcement.. hope you bought a decent ifak.
I like the comparison. I chose steel over ceramic or poly for the price and my use. I only wear my plate carrier once in a while and not for more than a few hours. So for me I don't find the extra weight too much. For long term wear or specific mission use, I can see the extra investment in poly plates too save on weight. I think for most people who don't wear plate carriers for work or who aren't military, it's all preference at that point.
@@SkintSNIPER262 Ahh... so you didn't watch the video or any video on anybody testing these plates. Maybe watch them and you will be surprised at who was eating shrapnel and who wasn't.
Does anyone make a poly plate with a steel core? If the poly were sealed on the edges, it would hold up longer than a coating, but I've not seen it yet.
I think both'll last a long time, unless chemicals that-I dunno degrade overtime were used with the "plastic" body armor, maybe it'll react differently in humid areas, dry areas etc? Idk.
Expiration dates on armor are there more for insurance purposes than anything else. Secondly, company's can make alot more money by selling more products if they put an expiration date on it.
You should probably search more than one manufacturer before putting info like this out. Most places PE isn't so much more than steel in some cases about the same. Ace Link is great and only a little more than steel.
I'd be interested in seeing how the coating on my shellback ar1000 plate does, but I'm not willing to test that yet. But I keep gaurddog spall covers on my plates. Not to mention they're also only 6lbs a plate.
Body armor needs to comform to your contors. Center mass protection is great but they side profile wounds are deadlier. A form of scalemail ballistic armour protection should offer protection while keeping maneuverability.
How can they afford to sell the steal plate for $130? I just Googled the cost of 550 steel and it's going for $744.50/ton which works out to $0.37/pound so all said, I'm betting the coating probably costs more than the steel plate itself and that's even factoring in the cost of cutting and forming the plate.
so essentially 3$ for just the steel for a single plate, and then automation to form curves, spall layer, and logo. They probably make more money off a single plate than you think...
In 20 years the steel plate will still stop bullets. But in 20 years I would NOT trust the anti-spall coating on the steel plate. Without spall protection, the steel would only be marginally better that the synthetic plate.
Im working on some armor designs trying to find the hardest and strongest workable materials and combinations of materials i can. So far im thinkin graphene. Only thing known of with more hardness in the known universe is the crystaline crust of a dead stars core. Its practically godlike potential for armor. Im thinking aluminum oxide or aluminum oxynitride over a graphene backwr would be a good lighteight option. It doesnt exist yet but I'd like it too. A full suit of that inspired by both samurai armor systems and german gothic armor systems of old. Over an exoskeleton to help mitigate the felt weight of cours either powered, actuated, or some combination of both.
I'll be honest. AR500 (for what it is, using the proper coatings) was the cheapest lvl3 on the market (during their sales) 100% on the gigachad levels of fitness you need to perform in long duration applications with steel.
Americans like to talkt to much. Almoust every video, what I watch they just talk and talk and talk.. Lika a endless talking. God bless we have now this "tiktok". There is no room for talking. There you just have to act! But actually, I like more youtube, if the video is comfortable. And that means that there is no too much speak and talk. Speaking is ok, but speaking too much is not ok. You have to understand that people want to see actions on your videos. Not only endless talking. If your followers would like to watch speaking and talking, they propably would watch speak programs. Not action programs like this. So, do your best and make it best you can! Only for your best, I hope! PS. I hope you understand me. It is one kind of hopeless to watch too much speak, when I want to watch action!
I didnt go with steel because of the price point... I went with steel because my kit is for SHTF and I'd rather have something with longevity over light weight... ceramics and shit like that are useless after a few rounds hitting it while steel can keep going... I dont ever plan on getting shot but if I somehow take 1 round then I want to be able to have a plate that wont need to be replaced
The other bad part about ceramics. Is have to have an X-ray to make sure they're not broken because they can be compromised. You don't want to wear a plate that's compromised.
Good video. Factual. Informative. Everything a video like this should be. Gear snobs are going to talk sooooo much shit about you in Facebook groups because you dared to say something positive about steel armor.
Why defend yourself with plate. When it can be molded. To cover all body parts. Buckled modular units as no one size fits all. Blacksmiths could do it using wood or coal as fuel. Didn't we advance past those hammer jobs? Evidently not if this video can't give me what defeats a hard rain of arrows.
I bought old Italian surplus poly plates and shot a 556 55grain a 308 150 grain and 45-70 460 grain at 1700fps all in a triangle about 2 or 3 inches apart and stopped all three
There is a reason we use AR 500 steel for targets. Hoever, I don't need to be a walking tank . Let me survive a round or two, move to cover. In theatre, sure. Steel. Anywhere else,... PE
I hate the misuse of the word spalling too, but I blame the body armor companies for starting the misuse of the word. Armor can spall, but bullets FRAGMENT. I also hate the misuse of the word smelting. It does not mean melting or casting metal. It means extracting metal from it's ore.
For Plates I went with Midwest Armor and Officer Survival Solutions, good high quality plates. Carriers I went Velocity Systems as well as Midwest Armor, I also recently got one from First Spear.
It blows my mind that steel is much much cheaper than a glorified dinner plate and a plastic dinner plate you give to small children so when they push it off their high chair it doesn’t break. All because the material is lighter and more convenient for the user. It’s annoying.
@@thinkharder9332 well no, they have level 3+ which does the same thing as Level 4 ceramic. And I’ve seen level 4 plates fail after 2-3 hits in the same general area from green tip 5.56. I’ve watched belt fed weapons unload on steal plates without failing. And if you’re so confident in Ceramic protection go drop your plates down a flight of steps or onto your driveway 1-2 times….
@@thinkharder9332 thats bullshit. Level 3 steel was designed specifically to stop rifle calibers including green tip. You didn’t see any 5.56 caliber going through level 3 plates out of any barrel at any range. 3+ was introduced to stop common AP rounds. Though sure it won’t stop a ridiculous caliber like 30-06 AP but that’s an extremely rare round to find yourself against. You can’t justify paying double the price for a product that will turn to dust after a couple of hits and be worthless in the long run. If you’re in a situation where you can’t replace your plate and the fights not over, you’re screwed. I also didn’t say right on top of each other shot placement. I said I saw someone shoot green tip at a level 4 ceramic plate. First round stopped. 2nd round was shot in the same section of the plate and it failed. You can shoot steel all day with green tip it won’t go through.
It all comes down to cost for me. I work in a field where I have to provide my own armor that I wear at work everyday. And if I, gods help me, take a round in my armor...I dont have to replace anything in my carrier. My steel plate isn't going to be compromised. But if I was wearing a composite armor, I would have to buy a new plate. And that's what does it for me.
I think if a man takes a rifle round center of mass and walks away, he's entitled to treat himself to a pour of good whiskey, a pair of dry shorts and a new ballistic plate!🤣
@Think Harder Well, I have a deductible that I would pay for my insurance but I do have company provided insurance. Level IV ceramics do offer protection against more dangerous threats but the likelihood of those threats ever presenting themselves in my field are slim to none. As for replacing the plate, that's not always possible. If I'm on a 9 month contract overseas, and God forbid my carrier takes a round in the first month, I'm not getting resupplied any time soon. If I'm working stateside, I'm even less likely to ever come across a threat that would defeat a level III plate. Though I will say that since I posted this, my company provided my entire with Shellback 4S17 plates and a set of replacements which I have in my current carrier.
@Think Harder Well I spend most of time sitting down xD Im not going out on foot patrols anymore. Ceramics are multi-hit rated true. But every hit compromises the integrity of the armor and NIJ ratings have the hits spaced evenly across the plate. As far as I know, fhe NIJ doesn't actually rate for multiple hits in the same spot.
@Think Harder Yea, ceramic is perfectly good and all. But guys in the military have ready access to resupply. No one is going on patrol with a plate that's taken a hit, unless shit has gone apocalypticly wrong.
Velocity Systems has great XL carriers with XL Cummerbunds, Midwest Armor is great too, they have lots of big guys sizes and they both have great customer service. I would hit them up and see what you like.
All ammunition, firearm, accessory, & tactical gear manufacturers need void all contracts and warranties to all local, state, federal, and military organizations UNTIL the 2nd amendment is fully restored! This will also help restock the American people! please spread the word, make this our mission to pressure these companies to do exactly this! Spread the word through ALL 2A channels!
Why are you calling it plastic? Is it different than ceramic? also, how would plastic (ceramic) respond to hit just after being submerged in water? Would being wet reduce it's effectiveness?
I was going to buy a set of Steel plates but I don't feel like humping around an additional 26 lb. Add on all the gear you would normally have. Whatever vest and loadout, that's going to be around 30 to 40 lbs, then your ruck another 40 lbs. You're over 100 lbs real quick real easy. I didn't even add in your weapon or sidearm. I've looked into modifications to an M81 flack jacket (7 to 10 lbs) they are level 3A rated, with some modifications you could bump it up to 3+ or 3 depending on the materials used. It would also be alot more cost effective.
I "use" a 4 layer panel of kevlar over my build-up coated CATI steel armor, do you think that is sufficient for projectile fragmentation? I say "use" because I just wear it and luckily haven't found a need for it. . . . . yet..
Regarding warranty it's not just the steel they are covering, the anti-spall and outer coating that holds it all together are part of the equation. Depending on what conditions it is exposed to some things can accelerate the natural breakdown of polymers or the other chemicals that make up the non-steel components of both plates. UV light is known to be a problem for polymers but military testing of body armor includes both extreme temperature testing and chemical immersion testing including (but not limited to) gasoline, motor oil, salt water with an extremely high salt content, and weapon lubricant. The chemical testing may include extended soaks measured in hours or days. I have no doubt that Caliber is only putting 5 years so that if someone's plates accidentally spent months soaking in something in someone's basement they might be able to get out of dealing with an issue they didn't anticipate. In such a case with the steel once the outer layers are gone and the steel is exposed rust is also now a potential issue.
There's a reason why militaries don't use steel for personal body armor, granted its intent is for daily wear for many hours but its more than just weight.
No its absolutely weight. A soldier is already carrying quite a bit of weight and it is unnecessary to have a heavier plate when you can carry a lighter one with a higher expense.
@@dthompsont3796 I'll just answer for you, no one sells lvl 4 steel armor plates. You need AR 600+ plates to defeat some armor piercing rounds, problem is AR 600+ is very prone to cracking because it is so hard it is very brittle; so putting even one curve in it can cause it to break, and a flat plate might survive one shot before breaking.
Every single video I have seen with plate carriers and how they handle spall is a slick carrier. How may people walk around in a slick carrier? I have mag pouches on mine and any rounds would have to go through them..and ruin them in the process..but how would that effect the spall? You want to do a real test shot a full kit and not just a carrier with plates.