YouTube Has a Fake Bluegrass Problem: Reacting to the Most Viewed “Bluegrass” Videos 

Hey, just wanted to make sure y'all understand that I think the concept of a Bluegrass Report Card is dumb. Also, let me hammer home that I think overt traditionalism when it comes to defining a genre hurts genre-adjacent bands that could serve as stepping stones and kills the longevity of the genre as a whole by denying it the ability to evolve. Bluegrass being a great example. Genre's don't need report cards. As I said in the video, "Innovation is key in keeping the genre alive, but pedantic traditionalism makes for fun RU-vid videos". 3:03 If you missed it, watch the end of the video where I repeat for the 5th or 6th time that this experiment holds no actual value. 28:09 By the way, the group from the thumbnail claimed this video. Hope they enjoy all the revenue!

I've played in Old Time string bands for fifty years. So many times I'd have folks say something like "I like your Bluegrass,etc". I've given up saying "This is Old Time not Bluegrass". I have better luck saying this is not Bluegrass. "It is Pre-Bluegrass." which still makes no sense to the person. I've had folks tell me that there is no pre-bluegrass. Nothing came before Bluegrass. To explain that in the USA there was 300 years of American music before Bluegrass came along does not improve things. Sometimes it is better and more polite to just say "Thanks" and accept the offered compliment with grace.

If I had a dollar for every time someone said "Bluegrass is awesome. I love Mumford and Son!" I'd have quite a few dollars.

50+ year bluegrasser here, I completely agree with your asssessment of these songes. Most of todays Popgrass songs are cringworthy if not embarrassing, but hey I'm old and like traditional Bluegrass, thank you

Doc himself was not really ever bluegrass. He was folk and as he always called it" Old Timey" even on the rare occasions he played with Bill Monroe. Yet he's one of the defining figures in the modern style. I think that's emblematic of what happened. Part of it is that Doc was the key figure in redefining the flatpicking guitar style before people like Tony Rice came on the scene. Doc and similar artists on the folk scene made a bridge to traditional country particularly with the help of the Nitty Gritty Dirt band after the great folks scare died down and most folk became singer/songwriter pop rock. When the bluegrass festival scene took off particularly after the big boost from Jerry Garcia's "Old And In The Way" it slowly became the central outlet for old time music. And Doc's Merlefest ended up being a central place for both so it all got run together. Related point, will bluegrass proper ever acknowledge Jerry Garcia? He's really to bluegrass what Ray Charles was to country but they just don't seem to want to admit and acknowledge it like country did by putting Ray in the hall of fame.

"Shame on you for trying to bottle up Doc". Thanks for that one, Doc is the man.

Mom is from the time Bluegrass was "created" and she was laughing through the whole thing. She commented, "I hope he rates himself low for presentation. He should have worn a suit." Hahahahaha! My husband kept telling her, "He is rating if it is Bluegrass or not!" Watching the two of them was hillarious!

Postmodern has never tried to pass themselves off as a bluegrass band. They are mostly jazz musicians doing jazz versions of various modern songs.

Arguing about genre is fun. Gatekeeping is fun. Billy Strings considers himself a bluegrass gatekeeper. I love bluegrass. I love jazz. I love electronic dance music. One of the main reasons I love all of these is because definition of the genre is so important. The gatekeeping in the bluegrass community is mild compared to the gate keeping in the electronic dance music community.

There’s a lot of confusion out there. I have a guitarist friend who is quite knowledgable about classic rock, blues, jazz, etc. I told him I had been listening to a lot of Bluegrass lately and he said, “oh, you have to check out so-and-so!“ He sent me their video. They were a perfectly competent americana/alt country-type band, with no trace of bluegrass in their sound whatsoever. I thanked him politely.

I remember old grouchy "gatekeepers" complaining that Tony Rice was damaging Bluegrass and labeling every lead guitar player a Rice clone. I just kept buying Tony's records and enjoying them.

Halfway in, I’ve already had so much fun just hearing you explain the grading rubric.

"Shame on you for trying to bottle up doc like that. He played a lot of different stuff, not just bluegrass." Love it.

"Let's give them half points because a cello is half the size of an upright bass." Best line of the video! Thanks for this, Marcel! Entertaining, but also very informative.

I tell you what, you have a real gift for visual aids in your presentations. I think generally, you're just a good teacher and great at explaining things. Thanks for the great content!

This was really fun to watch. Like a musical Sports Center or something. Good stuff, Marcel.

Just because it has bluegrass instruments doesn’t mean it’s bluegrass. It doesn’t mean it’s bad, just don’t claim it’s bluegrass. I understand bill monroe had a very particular judgement of bluegrass as well and as a banjo player myself, I don’t think it needs to be that strict. The way I see it, it’s never gonna be what it once was lol.

It's quite elitest to say "F mandolins only". Can you personally hear the difference between F and A style mandolins on a recording? Does having your mandolin cost less money because it doesn't have a scroll stop you from playing it the exact same way as an F style?

Thanks for the video, Marcel! And contrary to what you might think, it is not at all silly that you're doing this. Speaking for myself, I am very much the opposite of a "style purist" when it comes to music-especially what I play, so I feel you there. But as someone who personally loves Bluegrass, and has friends out there legitimately trying to make a living from it, I think videos like this are important for setting the record straight. Because this whole-sale watering-down of what "Bluegrass" even means doesn't help those who go out and do it for real, and who try to keep the tradition alive, while putting food on their families' tables. Why make them compete with a bunch of imposter bands? THAT's the real silliness! And yes, of course, folks are gonna try to argue back in all the predictable ways they do (just like you mentioned they might), and that's fine. And really...If ya'll wanna go dress up like a hillbilly sideshow and sing some cool, catchy tunes with your flat-picking banjo friend and his washboard-playing cousin, then by all means, GO for it. But for crissakes, CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE! Don't leach off the name "Bluegrass", just to give your band some kind of counterfeit legitimacy. Invent your OWN name/style/genre/whatever. Only if you do this, can you have any ground to stand on from which to look folks in the eye and say: "We just play music, bro, and music is just music!". Okay, rant over. Thanks again~peace

Marcel, don't feel bad. This is something that needed to be addressed with honesty. Appreciate it, we needed this!

I like this video. I participated in my first bluegrass festival this past summer. I had no idea what bluegrass was, but I showed up with my guitar and had a great time learning! Your videos help me learn as well!

As a modern 4-string Banjoist, I think these tunes are labeled "Bluegrass" based on the fact they feature a banjo. The banjo is a versatile instrument, but just because its a song with a banjo, does not make it Bluegrass. (Imo, the six strings banjos are cheaters, and don't count as a type of banjo, glad to see the deduction).

I don't know. . . I keep it simple. If I like something, I'll play it no matter where it comes from, or whatever genre it is labeled. I sit in "Bluegrass" jams. We play fiddle tunes, old time music, and so on. There seems to be some sort of undercurrent of propriety, but the imaginative and secure players ignore it. When someone rather sheepishly says, "Do you mind if we play, "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere by Bob Dylan?" I always agree. I mean, if you want to play "I Got You, Babe" by Sonny and Cher, I say go do it. Like Duke Ellington said, "There are two kinds of music - good music and the other stuff." Let it all sing out, rather than get stuck in labels.

That was tons if fun Marcel! This is second vid of yours I have seen, and it is pretty darn cool. Good vid production in studio.

Great video. Not stupid, not useless. It's something we love and needs to be properly defined and you did a fantastic job. The educational leap that needs to happen is to understand that much of the music often being classified as "bluegrass" is most likely "Americana". Americana music is a very broad term that can include tons of styles and variation and is often very enjoyable to listen to. Some artists creativity is really impressive. Of course Steve n Seagull is not bluegrass, but I sure like listening to them!

I’ve honestly just given up trying to tell people that bluegrass isn’t just shitty acoustic covers of pop songs. But when someone sends me one, i at least know to never talk to that person ever again. I love traditional and somewhat progressive bluegrass and listen to it….most of the time. And I’ve got no problem with people exploring the boundaries of bluegrass and taking it into new innovative music. The problem comes when folks don’t know the roots and history of the music and just slap a banjo (dear God please not a banjitar, or even worse a mandotar) on something and say hey! We’re bluegrass now! You gotta know where the music comes from. You can’t say you’re playing bluegrass if you haven’t even heard the names Flatt & Scruggs or Bill Monroe. Also i used to pick with a guy that called electric bass “city bass” and that one’s really stuck with me.

DO ANOTHER ONE! This was so funny, and was really helpful for me as someone who's wanting to not only listen to more but PLAY some bluegrass.

Many traditional bluegrass musicians played oval-hole mandolins. Roland White, Red Rector, Ira Louvin, Peter Ostroushko, Curly Seckler, Audie Blaylock, Jimmy Gaudreau, Jethro Burns all played oval-holes at various points in their careers. Granted, not all these guys played bluegrass all the time, but they certainly did have oval-hole mandolins while playing bluegrass some of the time! And besides, Bill himself recorded with an oval hole: Monroe's Hornpipe, Big Mon 1958 original cuts (and several others off that album) were on an old Gibson F-4.

It's honestly crazy the amount of ignorance that exists when it comes to bluegrass among people who don't really listen to it. The Guns N Roses and ACDC songs weren't even CLOSE to bluegrass 😂 Way too many people think "There's a banjo on the screen, it's bluegrass!"

I’m 61 yrs old and have been a bluegrass fan since I was a kid. Been to countless bluegrass festivals all over Oklahoma and Arkansas. As a musician, I so deeply appreciate the musicianship and history of the music. After following Billy Strings for years, I recently saw him for the first time in OKC. I invited several musician friends to go with me. To my surprise, one of them said, “Nah, I’m not into that cocaine bluegrass.” I was like: WTF? Cocaine bluegrass? Obviously he had no idea of Billy Strings’ knowledge or appreciation for traditional bluegrass music. All musical genres experience changes over time. But, in my humble opinion, bluegrass is one of the few genres that has stuck to its roots over time. And Billy Strings definitely pays homage to the traditions of bluegrass. Cocaine bluegrass? I don’t even know WTH that is. Rant over.

The play style of vocals you explained is spot on👍! Dynamic's of sound is key for a knock-out of any unsuspecting listener.

Thank god for all the tabs on Lessons With Marcel's website so I can play my own Bluegrass and don't have to rely on very, very, bad youtube recommendations.

Great video. Okay now I want you to apply this system to Greensky Bluegrass, Billy Strings, Infamous Stringdusters. Two songs each. The grassiest one you can find and the ungrassiest one you can find for each.

I've had "tried to DOmeStiCate ya" stuck in my head for days after you editing this.

🤣Now I'm gonna rush out and git meself a "my grass is blue" bumper sticker! Too much fun Marcel, you, uh...Rock!

That was fun and I also thought it was fair and even informative. Well done! Thanks.

Well thought out, smart and well produced. U Funny Marcel.

definitely a difference between bluegrass and music that obviously was inspired by bluegrass elements. I always appreciate a good nod to who's influenced you, especially in songs like the one by the dead south, wagon wheel, constant sorrow.

Thanks for adding the "get up John" mandolin tuning exception! You've clearly thought this through...

Thoroughly enjoyed this. I’ve only recently started delving into bluegrass with my guitar playing and my spouse who doesn’t play has listened to the genre much longer than I. We’ve had a lot of similar discussions. It will be fun to watch this with her.

Traditional Bluegrass is down home and heart felt disappearing before our eyes, when I joined Kaintuck 3 years ago traditional was my passion and still is and will continue to be, this band has stuck with it even if it isn't popular especially among the younger generation. We have a great thing going and I hope it continues until my departure from this life.P.S. Flatt & Scruggs forever!!

The first I saw Danny Barnes was about 1991. The Bad Livers covered Metallica and Motörhead, but also played more traditional bluegrass as well.

Do more of these! This was fun to watch

Loved this! Thank you!

My first law of banjos: "A banjo must have more than 4 strings and less than 6." Fun video!!!!

AGrEED across the board. YES! Bluegrass is Formalized and made for bigger audiences, radio, commercial recording. Performance values are important. One thing I would add is that beyond just the instruments - the core of bluegrass is the instruments / musicians work together to weave the rhythm and the melody into each part, everyone taking their line. It's about working together and not just everyone playing loud and fast, and not just one instrument holding down the beet.

Thank you Marcel for a great video and explanation of the genre. It does clarify a lot without saying something is better than other. It still come down to the matter of taste, but great tool to help us define what we are talking about and what we are trying to play. Keep up the great work and I would love more videos of this kind, both more around traditional bluegrass and other neighbouring genres.

Don't forget the autoharp. Carters. Apalachian dulcimer is old time mountain instrument. Jean Ritchy and Doc Watson set up a music school teaching folk/old time music in NYC. This is the foundation on which bluegrass was built.

Word to Doyle Lawson and his great band(s)! The DL&QS catalog is the most reliable place to find perfect bluegrass and gospel harmony singing

Thanks, Marcel. As always interesting and edifying. I first saw the Dillards at the old Ice Hose in Pasadena, California in the early 1970s. At that time Doug Dillard had moved on and had been replaced by Herb Pedersen, on the banjo. Rodney Dillard (guitar), Dean Webb (mandolin) and Mitch Jayne (standup bass), all original members, were still with the group. They had, at that time, added a drummer whose name I don't remember. Mitch Jayne introduced by saying that they had first seen him playing drums on the Preparation H Float at the Rose Parade. I saw the Dillards many times, at the Ice Hose, after that. That was my introduction into the world of Bluegrass.

I really enjoyed this. Well done.

Internet: "O Brother where art thou?" isn't Bluegrass... Me: I don't care... It was an awesome movie...

Now that's a lesson 👍🏼❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Anyone who knows nothing about bluegrass could watch this watch this video and instantly sound like an expert

“It looks like he’s about to flatpick this banjo” Best moment

Yay for this. Presentation: 10/10 (for the hat on the rack, homage to Bill Monroe); Song choices: 9/10 (ya missed the cover of Rocket Man by Iron Horse); Scoring system: 10/10. Overall: A! I have tried to explain to friends and family what bluegrass is and the differences between bluegrass, old-time, string band, country, gospel and folk music, but yours is far and away the best and most complete explanation I've come across. The exercise is not stupid. Music schools in recent years have added coursework in bluegrass, so folks are getting paid to teach it, and students are signing up to get good at it. You've done a service to us all by explaining it.

The Osborne brothers were one of the first to put the lead up high and drag the tenor underneath. When they did this back there in the 60's, this was not the way it was supposed to be done. But it worked for them. Also they were another band that used electric bass. This didn't set well with Bill Monroe, but Bobby didn't really care. They used drums in some of their music too.

Thank god for Marcel. It may be stupid, yes, but it is NOT pointless 😂. I need more

That was fun. I'm not a big fan of bluegrass, but as a musician I enjoy learning about genres and style.

Marcel.. Thank you for posting this video. I have watched many of your videos and wondered if you really are a good representation of Bluegrass music, but you are spot on with this one... I have a few videos I want to send to you for your comments. Clearly, some people really need to see this... Very entertaining... Keep up the great work for our music...

Not Bluegrass-related but still a funny story about the “gatekeeper” syndrome: We all know about Dylan going electric at the 1965 Newport Folk Festival. There was a big backlash against him from the Folk purists who felt that Dylan’s new electric sound was “too commercial.” The Newport Folk Festival was created in 1959 by George Wein, who had earlier started the Newport Jazz Festival. He had already tried to add a “Folk Night” to the Jazz Festival in 1958 but faced considerable backlash from jazz purists. Why? They felt Folk music was “too commercial.”

My grandfather played bluegrass live on WBLT in Virginia in the 1950s and I think they would technically fail because they had two guitars and no upright, haha! Regardless, this was fun. On the O Brother Where Art Thou point, my grandma loves that movie because it reminds her a bit of her hometown music (or she just likes Clooney - actually probably both). So there's one fringe benefit, grandma's happy so we all win! :)

Love these videos Marcel, I've been following you for years and you are the inspiration for my own channel on bluegrass fiddling! I was curious what you'd say about bluegrass fiddle. I've thought a lot about vibrato- I'd say it's all over the map just like bow holds. The greats did use vibrato... Bobby Hicks, Kenny Baker, Byron Berline, Chubby Wise, Benny Martin- one distinction I would make is that it's in general a slower vibrato, and not as wide as in classical music. Also it's not continuous, as is taught in classical music, but more treated as an embellishment.

This grading system is funny. I'm enjoying it so much

Love this! Couple of thoughts. Capo on banjo and guitar are good, capo on the mandolin is an immediate 10 point deduction! Also, think you for not including "speed" as a defining factor. Many non-bluegrass folks think that all bluegrass has to be lightning fast and it just isn't true. Finally, as both a drummer and mandoliner, drums should never, ever appear in bluegrass as it means that bass and mandolin cannot carry the percussive feel. anyway, great video. J. Evans Pritchard would be proud!

Bluegrass is strongly influenced by the music of Bill Monroe, his stylistic peers and close followers. The less you hear that sound, the more you are listening to "Americana". Nothing wrong with playing hybrid music as long as it is good. [Especially if it accurately references its roots, whatever they may be.] Unfortunately local "Bluegrass jam session" events seem to be Folk, Country, Grateful Dead music etc.

Some Tangential brains were moved today by your guidance of what bluegrass really is. Nice video!

I got to know you trough GuitarPro 7/7.5, ... little did i knew then you are a bluegrass man. Finding that out it was like 'there is a God afterall' experience, ... Marcel, love your channel and all it's content, your brightly and intelligent insides warms my musical inner being. Thank you for being here, ... with us, ... nubes 👌👍💖 you Rock, ... or ... Grass ... whatever 🤘

Are these these bands representing themselves as “blue grass” or did Google group them as such . I think that’s important . At the same time I used to care a lot more about stuff like this when I was younger , not so much anymore .

Defining the genre is not hyper-traditionalist, it's a natural thing to do, and you made it fun. What are your thoughts on the washtub bass playing a traditional baseline? And Guitjo?

“I was not swayed by your jean shorts” Marcel--> mega king

Love this video!!!!

It would be fun to go back and do this with “Bluegrass” 40-50 years ago. With Jim & Jesse doing an album of Chuck Berry songs, Flatt & Scruggs doing an album full of Dylan songs with drums, 12-string guitars, and harmonica, Jimmy Martin, Country Gentleman & Seldom Scene doing pop hits, Osborne Brothers with pedal steel, drums, electric bass, electric guitar and banjo & mandolin plugged into amps on stage. Or even go back to 1952 and grade Bill Monroe’s early DECCA recordings with piano, organ, electric guitar, and drums.

I feel u missed the point, yes some of the bands did not fit, but a old man sitting on hi porch playing a classical guitar using a pick is iis blugrass if he is playing his heart out and feeling feeling every tone and note coming from his roots, your putting a lable on the box not the substance.

I watched most of this video out of spite. The tone enrages me,something about the constant contradiction of “genres need variation to thrive” and then in the next second “oh you’re playing a guitar that isn’t the size of Georgia? Objectively worth less.”

this is the most amount of gatekeeping I've ever seen.

People are going to look so confused when we play Wagon Wheel and I announce it as a 79% bluegrass song. 😂

Claw hammer out but you take electric Bassi. Yikes :)

I understand Bill Monroe tried a number of alternative tunings.

Really enjoyed this video

A few observations, the scorecard should have been called, “Pure Bluegrass”. And honestly, if all bands scored an A, new albums would be lacking. Influences and creative songwriting including mixing other music genres takes the listener to a whole new level. So, in short, I say toss this snobbery along with the report card and appreciate the wide spectrum of BLUEGRASS!

"What is bluegrass" is the same question as "What is a fish" and the answer is, a loosely grouped collection of features that the thing in question MAY have, but it does not have to have all of them to meet the definition. If you say bluegrass has to have a banjo, are you going to remove Blue Moon of Kentucky, given it was recorded with no banjo? If you say it has to have a fiddle, then most of Billy Strings live shows wouldn't count cos he didn't have a fiddle player in the band. If you say it has to have no drums, then you have removed Jimmy Martin, Ricky Skaggs and the Circle records, it's a loosing game. Arguing over the definition of bluegrass is pointless, if the music in question has more features of bluegrass than it doesn't, then it's bluegrass. You made the argument not to bottle up Doc, but then Doyle plays loads of gospel and other tunes that aren't bluegrass, why the different application of that standard?

I would hate to play in front of this guy…however if we’re in the audience together he’s completely right.

thanks for explaining things that might be evidencial for bluegrass player but not for me ! I definitly learn quite some things with this video

That Tony Rice lick insert was on point 😂

My man out here making snobbery fun, and the report card section was very informative. Great job brother

Most entertaining video I saw in years 😂😂😂

LET’S GO WE GOT JOSH AND CARSON IN THE VIDEO! Those guys respect bluegrass!

Marcel, I found your video very entertaining and I agree with you completely on your reports. I use my own Bluegrass Report Card on every song I hear that calls itself Bluegrass. I'm glad I'm not the only one who does weird stuff like this! Keep up the fine work! 😊

As a self titled music nerd who likes to categorize everything and anything, this video kicked ass. It’s all for fun and with love. I mainly listen to Punk and Metal, with love for rock and roll and anything with guitars, bass, and drums. But if there is any group that is constantly fighting over what is in and what is out it is Punks. 😂😂😂

Here's Earl doing some guitar fingerpicking with Lester and the Foggy Mountain Boys. Points going, Earl!

My dad played this 1st Bean Blossom festival back in the sixties, I liked ok when I was young, but when Seldom Scene hit , It got me excited.

Great video. Also, I love your shirt

I'm not surprised by wagon wheel. Old crow was my gateway drug to string band music

Love this video. So many people in the jam music festival scene think they know what bluegrass is. 😂 This is a lot nicer explanation than I would ever give anyone I have disagreed with.

I thought I was going to be more critical of your rubric and that there would be more of a continuum between Not Bluegrass -> Kinda Bluegrass -> Bluegrass. But there didn't seem to be any that were on the line that could go either way. I agreed with you on all the assessments. I also appreciate that you didn't criticize their musicianship, just their Bluegrassness.

I believe A model and oval hole mandolins should be allowed because Buzz Busby and Curly Seckler used them and they are firmly in the bluegrass camp.

I wish somebody had made this video when I was first learning. Couldn't get anybody to break down bluegrass for me. I don't fit into any genre, so I'll just enjoy being a spectator. Thanks for this video.

Fun exercise, and well done. You helped clarify the topic for me. I'm not a bluegrass purist, but... as someone who likes all the clips you played, except for the typically OTT Postmodern Jukebox, I've never thought of any of them as "true" bluegrass. Further, they all have an element of the novelty act about them that can make listening to full albums something of a chore. This echos your comment on genre swapping. Fun, but more like fast food than a hearty aural meal. The exception for me is The Dead South, who, IMHO have transcended their almost-parody origins, though their sound is too eclectic to be called pure (not a criticism). BUT, what about "Bona Fide" bluegrass artists who stray into pop & rock covers? Sierra Hull doing Mad World; Travelin' McCourys doing Pumped up Kicks with Keller Williams; Del McCoury Band - & Friends - covering For What it's Worth; Dave Rawlings Machine (folkies with bluegrass chops) doing Going to California with JPJ on mandolin. How do these rate on the bluegrass scorecard?

Please do more of these