Yu-Gi-Oh! Player Rates Classic MTG Cards 

That's why at the end you just mention the Storm count to make your opponent sweat.

mental misstep is still my fav card.

@@ODST_SSGT I loved the MM Legacy meta no cap...

@@bruwin at the end of the war Flusterstorm

Thing is that a good amount of the time, making your opponent fight over a Misstep is actually great for you. In a one-for-one battle, you win by being the proactive player.

kinda: it's so blatantly game breaking that he couldn't convince himself they would ever print something like that unless it was basically impossible to actually play it, and to be fair enchantments are probably the hardest cards to cheat out. There is a reason that there are several cards that just straight up say "you win the game" or "you can not loose the game" that still manage to suck. ...in a lot of ways survival of the fittest seems even better though: it's not as blatantly [play card = win game] but it's a classic case of a card being designed with a "cost" that's at least as beneficial as the intended payout.

My thoughts exactly

@@evernewb2073 Enchantments may be the hardest to cheat out, but Yawgmoth's Bargain was printed in the *same set* as Academy Rector. And even then, that path only became useful once all the absurdly fast artifact mana ramp got banned.

@@evernewb2073 What I was thinking about is a somewhat similar card in Yu-Gi-Oh that is never played. Tongue Twister. It's a card that lets you draw 2 cards, but the condition of needing to tribute summon the card and then get rid of it makes it kinda bad. There are actually a lot of Yu-Gi-Oh cards that make you draw cards, but most of them (like, 95%) have cards that make them not worth the effort in a normal game. That's why Exodia decks are able to have 35 different cards that allow them to draw more cards in them, yet those decks are considered bad but fun on a casual level.

@@ashblossomandjoyoussprung.9917 yep! it's pretty much exactly that in a nutshell, card draw isn't quite so utterly broken in MTG because of the resource economy being, well, more like an economy than a sequence chain but draw is still powerful enough for 1 life = 1 card to be WAY to good a bargain for you to believe there isn't some kind of catch even before you stick it in a deck that just straight up wins as soon as you have a couple specific cards in your hand, even worse they printed it in the element with the best options for cheezing it out _and_ abusing it once you have it. the card looks like someone either accidentally printed a joke card or made some bad decisions after getting through a 20 hour day at the office with the help of their secret stash and doubled down _hard_ when a playtester tried to bring it to attention. to use your example imagine how much better those exodia decks would be if you could just pay a thousand life points to draw a card any time you like as many times as you like, heck, half the decks that use this in MTG include ways for paying that life to be a _bonus_ so half the time all they actually want the card for is to instantly bring their life total down to their ideal because they already have a win condition on the field, drawing a handful of counterspells and a secondary win condition at the same time is just a bonus.

That is disgusting lmao

Activated your trap card

lol green can be degenerate too

Sounds like he made a mental misstep.

@@kevinb5417 take your damn like

magic players seem way more likely to take design truisms like that for granted rather than thinking them through and applying them

I mean i can understand every single card game in the market(hs, lor etc but i mostly play weiss and yugioh irl because the demographic here force me to do it) but i somehow still need an emulators to determine how an effect resolve in yugioh negate faceup etc. Show how stupidly annoying yugioh rulings are, but it is so satisfying when i pull it off, like i summoned Lonefire Blossom(im playing rikka irl) through living fossil and activate its effect, then my opponent poker facing my play unknowingly that's a legal move lmao.

Ironically, neither of them read lol

Nah Yugioh players are infamous for not reading the cards, lol. But to be fair, every card is a book nowdays

To be fair a lot of Yu-Gi-Oh cards I've seen look like a novel with all the words. Although MTG is getting there. we're just not used to a lot of text.

Either TCG Player or CFB did something similar in a video when Khans block was rotating out. 3rd place was Siege Rhino, 2nd place was Fetch lands, 1st place was the second Siege Rhino.

@@bobzour I believe it was CFB! Pretty sure LSV was in it, talking about cards they won’t miss after rotation, and yeah, number one was specifically “the *second* siege rhino”

@@bobzour I think it’s a cfb MTG top 8

@@bobzour I remember when Dragons of Tarkir and Magic Origins were rotating, LSV did an article with images of major cards rotating, and Collected Company was in there four times.

@@maileesaeya3614 What? why would LSV care about bant company rotating? it's not like he ever did anything with that deck......

Yes! However i am supprised they did not mention, that with the alternative cost, it can be played in any deck regardless the color!

You can easily see a train wreck if you thrive in an environment full of train wrecks

@T.J. Johnson I immediately thinking about Solemn another Solemn

@@sirsimon6562 it happened in yugioh with crossout designator, low cost but going second you can set and crossout a crossout to get out of a bind

@T.J. Johnson one of the counters to Maxx "C" being activating your own to lock your opponent out of it IIRC

Yugioh has a lot of cards like that and they are not even banned, so we are used to them 😂

I feel like he shouldn't have gotten the point if only because "really good" is just off by orders of magnitude lol. It's pretty rare that a card breaks Standard, Modern, and Legacy all at once. Even though, if I'm remembering correctly, Modern didn't exist quite yet when this card dropped.

@@CxOrillion thats not how the rules of the game work tho lmao

​@@CxOrillion But if the game worked like that and the degree mattered, his line of thought led him basically to the doorstep of saying it's banworthy. It wasn't him underrating the card, it was just a turn of phrase.

@@researchinbreeder Plus the moment he said "it enters a toxic area" he was in the right magnitude anyway

Yu-Gi-Oh players even use mill 😅 and they don't know why

Thing is that a lot of these game-actions are used in multiple games and kinda demand a proper one word term to describe them. Tutoring and milling are useful verbs that replace longer sentences.

@@lostalone9320 sure. But they come specifically from Magic cards. Hence OPs comment....

I heard tutor was a reference to a magic card but I don't know what it actually does. But in the past when I heard people mention 'tutor', they were talking about special summoning from deck, not searching? What does it actually do?

@@IamGrimalkin In the very first set of Magic, they printed a black card called Demonic Tutor that looked through your library for any card and put it in your hand. Not having been around back then, I can't tell you if that immediately became the name for deck searching effects or if it took until the printing of things like Enlightened Tutor, Mystic Tutor, and Vampiric Tutor (respectively, searched enchantments and artifacts, instants and sorceries, and anything but cost 2 life) to solidify that name for the effect. Importantly those 3 instead of putting it in your hand, put it to the top of your library, thus any deck searching effect became known as a tutor, no matter where the card ended up. Even cards like Buried Alive that send it to your graveyard, are known as tutors (although the actual action of doing it is sometimes called entombing, named after the 1 mana spell that does it).

really makes you wonder how it got past playtesting lol

In Yugioh we have a card called Solemn Judgement with the activation cost of half the current life point and is still played constantly in many decks, seeing the cost of 2 lives for a disruption is definitely a broken effect

Yeah both this and probe were a problem. You didn't really have a 60 card deck, you had a 52 card deck with four probes and 4 missteps.

White finally had a decent counterspell and it was a blue card

And because you could, you effectively had to

@@OriginalMokthol hey, dont you dare disrespect mana tithe like that. 😋 Mana tithe is a G.O.A.T!

Yeah, there was even a block deck that used survival called recsur because recurring nightmare was in the same block and oh man was recsur degenerate when you got the engine rolling. It was a slow grind, but it got lots of card advantage going to the point opponents couldn't keep up at all while fogging with spike weaver, gaining life with spike feeder, or pounding your face in with that card that spawns a 1/1 every turn to feed the recurring nightmare and was also a big beatstick. I remember legacy with the card, it was crazy what it could do at the end before the axe came down and now it could do even more of course just getting better with each set usually.

@@dstreetz91 I had the gold-border Recurring Survival WC deck and it took me a while to figure out how it worked (couldn't just look it up on the internet at the time), but once it clicked, that was a super fun deck to play. It was pretty busted then, but would be absolutely broken with today's pool of cards.

Oh yeah, and Stoneforge Mystic

@@elitebuster2012 There's absolutely no way he'd fall for Stoneforge. Cheating things out of the Deck for cheap, is universally a good effect, especially when it's coming off a cheap monster/creature.

Maybe do a "swords special" fire & ice, feast and famine, and the world ender type one that looked powerful but was a bit crap.

Just use CAWBlade cards. It’s a hard deck to pilot and not everything is clearly powerful.

I think goblin guide is a perfect card to try and throw someone off as well

Really was a misstep for wotc yeah

Easy to spot. Yugioh does stupid crap like that all the time. lol

They mostly thought oh phyrexian mana can't be that good right? Right? Wrong, you basically printed a modern day urza block set in new phyrexia considering how many cards got played because they had phyrexian mana. Like you have to wonder how they thought something innocuous like gitaxian probe was fine.

I’ve watched a lot of these from the MTG perspective but I just watch these two evaluating YGO cards and I can confirm. My head was absolutely spinning.

Yugioh players make really good magic players. I don't play it, but some of the strongest players I know came from yugioh.

Monogreen running missteps to misstep their opponent's missteps on their elves

@@karfsma778 yep! Every deck period! 😒😒

Tbf it’s not quite that. It’s a much more limited range you can use it on, like a judgement for 800 but you can only use it on a normal summoned monsters effect. But that judgement is also a handtrap that counters itself.

Like solemn warning where its nore limited but only 2000 life which while not a staple did see a bunch of play back when traps were viable

Green Slime "Counter target ability, and if you do, destroy that card" And it's already a yugioh card xD

Aetherling

Just show him a card with banding.

Yugioh doesn't actually have many cards like Chains of Mephistopholes, it very much functions with mtg logic, where the cards bend the rules. The yugioh equivalent of this card would be "small world": It's complicated to use, but what it does is let you go minus one to search any monster, so long as your deck is set up right.

@@alexanderjackson7948 It's about the paragraphs of text to adequately describe something very simple, not the effect itself.

Reminding someone about the resource system isn't talking someone out of their decision.

That's kinda true, but also the point of having him evaluate that card was to see if 6 mana was worth such an obviously broken effect or if you could cheat it out, not for him to go "oh the effect is broken" and not think about the mana cost

Also you *had* to prevent the damage, even if it wasn't enough to kill it. That made it easy for yoyr opponent to set it up for a blast spell.

Had Champion had hexproof it would have been very very good and honestly not back breaking

Another option would be if it had trample, because then you would not be able to chump block it, and all those +1/+1 counters making it huge would actually allow it to do damage.

@@justavictim9432 Even with Hexproof, I don't think it would have been great. If it had both some form of Evasion AND some form of removal protection (beyond preventing damage) it might have been decent.

@@UmeII I mean yeah if it had evasion too it would be strong but Champion would have been a staple in Pioneer ramp as is because that is more of a control deck that wants to hit land drops and have chump blockers.

Yeah it becomes difficult to say what it means to be a good card. Notice in this video every staple is vintage playable and every stinker didn't make the cut in standard, which makes it hard to argue they don't fit those categories but gives a pretty high delta in power level.

Is there a format where Mental Misstep isn’t good? As a Yugioh player who’s only experience with Magic at all is the starter deck in MTG Arena, I think that card is insane no matter the format

​@@JpegDog It's effectively banned in any format that matters

@@JpegDog yes actually. It was not good in standard when it was printed and wouldn't be today. Standard is low enough power level that 1 mana cards just aren't that common.

@@JpegDog It's probably at it's worst in Commander purely because of the amounts of mana used in that format. Even then, it still has its uses because people play cards like Sol Ring, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, etc (especially since the 2 life is even more negligible when you're starting at 40 instead of 20). It's the only format it's fully legal in, but I can't think of any time I've ever seen it played there.

Be really funny to see a card like Norin the Wary and Dark Depths on here

I mean that's a stretch

@@ant-onemusic444 just a little bit

As a non Magic player Pendulum cards were the first thing I was thinking off too. Instantly thought "So basically works like a Pendulum card"

Out of curiousity, do they still count as both types while in the GY for stuff like Delerium or Tarmogoyf?

@@Aquilenne as far as I know they count as the front face while in the grave, so in Cosima's case he would count as the creature side.

Sword of the Meek

Yawgmoth is so hard to understand, even for magic players

@@thomasestling3400 Exactly. People sometimes don't think it's all that good, and then they play against somebody using him in EDH and get blown out with an undying and/or Nest of Scarabs loop.

I could really see someone being g thrown by Gitaxian Probe. It's not very evident how good of a cantrip it is.

@@theprogressivecynic2407 Feel like Yawg is kinda cheap. It's a fine creature without the existence of Undying but probably wouldn't see play, and if you look at it without knowing the existence of the mechanic Undying you can't really fairly evaluate it

@@retronymph even then theres a decent amount of other graveyard recursion that would make it pretty good

Yu-Gi-Oh player here, dabble in Magic now and then. Relentless Rats seems better than Shadowborn Apostle because it’s just a flat boost to your other rats, Apostle probably isn’t going to activate it’s effect during a game. The effect of being allowed any number of those cards in a deck is very funny, Digimon has similar cards, I don’t think Yugioh could have a card with that effect without making it very bad

@@rustycox7741 They both never saw any tournament play. But they DO have some really fun EDH decks

@@rustycox7741 apostle is actually better due to combo potential because of the card edge Walker. At least IMO. The only thing that relentless rats can really combo off with is thrumming Stone

As a yugioh player: MTG has no zone limits, right? So you could summon a load of Relentless Rats and use them to OTK? Like you might do with Numeron in yugioh? (Although this kind of card would never be printed in yugioh, you can't even play 4 different Umi retrains).

​@@IamGrimalkinYes, Magic has no zone limits, so in theory you could storm off to play a ton of rats, but they have summoning sickness and can't attack because they don't have haste, meaning you need to pass turn to your opponent, who could wipe your whole board and leave you with nothing. The rats also cost three mana each, which is awkward because it means you normally can't cast two of them a turn until turn 6, which is very late, plus you have to actually draw all of them. Obviously you can build your deck to give your rats haste and draw more cards and make more mana, but now you're diluting your rats with a bunch of other pieces just to make them playable (and spending more mana to do it). It's just too much work for a mediocre payoff. If you're already building your deck to include massive mana generation or infinite mana and tons of card draw, you want a wincon that wins the game on the spot with a single card, instead of trying to cast a bunch of rats. Something like Tendrils of Agony would be a much better choice; even mana-intensive Storm wincons like Mind's Desire or Dragonstorm are more efficient. Compare also to cards like Empty the Warrens or Chatterstorm, which will also make a huge board of creatures but do so when you cast just one copy of that card, so you don't need to draw as well and can do it earlier because you don't need to have as many cards or as much mana available to get your reward. Honestly, Relentless Rats seems better played fairly to apply pressure in a grindy midrange strategy, but even there and even sticking just to the Rat creature type, you'd be better off playing Pack Rat along with cards you could discard for value and removal.

i think anyone who reads LED would say its strong because its so suspiciously hard to use.

@@empty5013 I don’t know this would look any better to an MTG noob than something like One With Nothing.

@@empty5013 Somewhat on the contrary, initially people thought LED's drawback was impossible to circumvent and the card was useless.

@@TheJohtaja it kinda was until cards came about that can abuse it and rules changes took place that made it more usable

LED at first was...bad. Even though demonic tutor existed there wasn't storm cards printed yet. It only took a few years for it to reach oh this is just flatout broken though when burning wish was released into the world and vintage got the 4 burning wish 4 LED with yawg's win in the sideboard, wheel of fortune, timetwister, all sorts of silly stuff ensued.

There will definitely be more on both channels 🙂

these cards were also pretty easy choices imo (although Undergrowth Champion was a bit more difficult to evaluate compared to Tarmogoyf, but he wouldn't know about Tarmogoyf so...)

it's exactly why i like watching him talk. This is some of the best content.

And Umezawa’s Jitte!

I would also put Narset, Enlightened Master on there as well.

@@jbradentraw2083 They already did that for one of these

i downvoted you.

Kinda hard to evaluate what would "break yugioh" since magic cards are balanced around mana which yugioh doesnt have. A lot o cards would break yugioh if they didnt have mana costs. Most draw spells would

The equivalent of Stupor and Act of Treason (and of course divination) are banned in YGO. Not having a mana system wildly alters the power level of noncreatures

@@fredrikfagerberg6783 You're absolutely correct on these points, but we did get the Act of Treason equivalent back last banlist, and it's seen no play due to the current speed of the game (Not discounting Change of Heart's history of course, it's just too likely to be prime negation-bait in most matchups to be worth running the one copy in your deck)

Every card can be great in the right EDH deck 😉 for the purposes of these series, we pretend EDH doesn't exist and focus on the 60-card formats

+1 for necropotence, back why Scrye used to rate the cards it was a 1 out of 5. It took what felt like forever in the pre-dojo days for the world to learn how broken it was.

they did Necro

Turns out dumping a Spirit of the Night into play for 3 mana was really good lul.

It's not just a good card in early magic. It's still insane now there's a reason it's banned in legacy lol.

I think just use suspend tho

Mono grenn vs Mono white.... forest, llanowar elf, go... plains, savannah lions? *green player - No!, misstep*

Thundering Raiju is good rn

Yeah, you gotta play at least 2 copies. This is why it got limited to 1 in Master Duel. Because they wanted to stop that interaction you mentioned.

I was thinking the same. I don't know what format Bargain would be broken in currently (I guess it would be a slight upgrade to Ad Nauseam in Legacy. Especially since you could run multiple copies of it), despite being banned in everything except Vintage. Same thing with Windfall, Memory Jar and other Vintage cards. They are mostly defined by their mythology and not their actual power level.

When Bargain first came out it was not seriously played in the main formats. It was too expensive and the other decks were just too fast. There were much more powerful cards to "cheat" into play.

@@muchograndeyolatengo They will never unban Windfall in Legacy (even though there's no Academy or Mind Over Matter) because it essentially forces a mulligan. Going Lotus Petal -> Ancient Tomb -> Windfall on turn one means your opponent could have kept a good hand with four spells and three mana sources, but then got punished by drawing into seven non-land cards. And the Windfall player basically got a free Ancient Tomb out of the deal.

Glad you enjoyed!

I can't imagine any situation where casting Griselbrand wins faster than casting Bargain unless a lot of cards are illegal, and Bargain is just a lot cheaper, too.

@@thomasestling3400 no one is telling u to hardcast it lol

@@kuru-chan6644 nor would I expect them to, but just ritualing/ramping to 6 is easier than reanimating in most contexts, too.

@@thomasestling3400 even in really weak formats (formats that dont have access to griselbrand mind you) reanimation is 4 mana and there are always a plethora of ways to get stuff in the graveyard (wotc always prints draw 3 discard 2 etc) in modern/legacy getting griselbrand in play is trivially easy and always costs 2-3 mana

granted bargain would be ridiculous in modern *because* the format is slow enough for you to resolve it in money pile type decks without building around nonsense (fury hardcast is a good play for whatever reason) but comparing cheating out the two griselbrand is so so much easier

The best!

Thanks, will do!

This means we must have a rematch. More staple or stinker content

Yu-Gi-Oh had plenty of similar situations with cards that worked like that. It's a, let's say familiar sight :D

@@antonioscendrategattico2302 Yeah, for real and we still have those. Example Crossout Designator, Solemn Judgement.

That's not "fair" casting. Fairly casting some thing means you only used lands with no accelerated drops to cast it. Any thing else that would get it out faster than it's normal turn is considered cheating it ahead of time in common mtg jargon.

@@tonysmith9905 I always considered free casts like with Braids or Fires of Invention to be cheating the cost and paying the cost whether with rocks or spells to be fair casting but maybe that's just me.

Yay, thank you!