Yu-Gi-Oh Darlings Rate Classic Magic Cards 

Gotta love Thoralf, he is awesome! As a magic player since Saviors of Kamigawa, he even got me with the black sorcery to fetch a card. I saw it being played recently in historic and thought it was very good since you can assemble your combos. But I forgot it was incredibly nieche 😅

And we love him for it ❤

Bonus points if you typo as trolhalf.

Yes that's why I'm here

​@markomancikas so tutors can be very powerful. It's just Grim Tutor is outclassed by cards like Demonic and Vampiric Tutor which cost less mana and no life.

or 1

I mean, most 2/3-turn Yugioh games have as much interaction as a 20-turn MTG/Hearthstone game :)

Turn 3* ok, the guy that goes first normally wins so😅🤣

@@Kylora2112 That's the most insane and untrue thing I have ever read

I agree, they needed a bit more context to know that the other tutors are so much better

These nasty hobitsses tricked me, they stole my demonic tutors

There aren't a lot of formats where much better tutors are legal so calling it a stinker seems fair.

Grim tutor was just in standard and saw no real play and is legal in basically every other format after it got its reprinting but isn't really played anywhere else either. So by that metric it's a stinker in 60 card formats. In commander it's definitely playable but I don't think that's where Thoralfs mind is at with this series

@@dmdearing Also compitive commander isn't playing it anymore.

We have been baited but I wanted nothing less 🤣🤣 this was so much fun tbh!

I'd have to agree giving someone that's never seen Vampiric Tutor or Demonic Tutor a nerfed-for-standard tutor card is pure evil.

@@blueishgreen76 I kept waiting for him to say that grim tutor has multiple strictly better cards

Except Grim tutor isn't stinkr. it is (was ) a staple 4x in Grim Long, hence the name (Long is the last name of the deck's creator), in Vintage. A Mind's Desire storm deck. it is also fantastic in cEDH and regular EDH. the fact that it is a "stinker" in Modern and Legacy is lss about the card itself and more about how INSANE power creep has gotten over the last 5+ years. It would have been unthinkable to have this in Modern 8+ years ago. The card itself isn't bad, the game design and power creep has just gotten out of control.

@@paulgaither By the standards they use for "Staple" vs. "stinker," the 2021 reprint was largely a stinker. A lot of people would have hoped it was a sufficient improvement over diabolic tutor to see more play, but it never materialized. (If not for the London mulligan, it might have been a modern staple). Being irrelevant in modern, semi-relevant in Vintage, and being the 5th or 6th best black tutor card for inclusion in a commander deck really only raises it to the level of Meh.

The reason why yugioh is kinda like magic is because,yugioh started off as a magic parody

Get a phone q friend next time

The thing about fires of Invention is, you can abuse it in a deck called "Taking turns" which contains Fires, card draw spells and tons of extra turn spells so when you get a fires down, it will always be your turn and never your opponents turn again.

Loved the energy from both of you guys this episode!

electric boogaloo lesgo!

It's almost like there is a reason force of will was created.

I mean, I guess you could specify that usually stats match the cost *if played fairly.

Keyword is "usually".

"Usually". That's a word that describes decks that suck. Decks that don't suck... avoid "usually". both in terms of "can one shot you", or "pay fair prices for their spells" (looking at you, reanimator)

Colossus Hammer costs 9 mana for a 10/10. Dark Depths is 30 mana for a 20/20. The cards aren’t overstatted by themselves, you have to combo them with something in order to break parity.

The question they could have asked to reveal that it wasn’t a staple would be “is this effect available at a cheaper cost”. But yeah with a YGO mindset it looks like a slam dunk staple.

I don't know, I play Yu-Gi-Oh and have basically no knowledge of the meta game but still felt like even the smallest MTG experience could have helped you understand the card is not good

​@@felicen93 Grim tutor isn't really a bad card though, it's just beaten out by even more busted versions of the same effect.

@@Tomwithnonumbers The more busted cards are banned basically everywhere and Grim Tutor still isn't seeing play.

Yeah, I was like, "Grim Tutor is tricky in a vacuum, since there are so many better tutors. It's not Diabolic Tutor bad, but I definitely play Dimir House Guard in my commander decks..."

As mbt said, yugioh is mtg if every deck was storm past in flames.

​@@najawin8348 Storm + Past in Flames is a nonbo in Magic lol

@@SmashPortal No? It's very much a deck people play in Modern. (Well. Did play. It's been powercrept.)

@@SmashPortal pretty sure past in flames sees legacy storm play. i think it is the only red card in the deck.

This whole series is not looking at cards for commander. This is normal magic formats that are 1v1 and non-singleton. Grim tutor definitely sucks if you can have 4 diabolic. There are plenty of cards from this series that are staples in commander, but not other formats and vice versa with stinkers when they are staples in others. This channel doesn't focus, or do much, with commander as there is a ton of other channels that do.

@@MrReaperHand "Staple or Stinker" as a show doesn't really work in the context of Commander because most cards can be argued to be staples in Commander --- in the right deck. As a primarily EDH player watching this show, I have to turn off the part of my brain that assesses the power/viability of cards in the context of EDH, because every single card they've shown across every episode has a deck/commander/archetype that will perform well, and perform better by using that card. Grim Tutor is a staple in EDH because even though it's worse than Vampiric and Demonic, by the nature of being singleton, it's the third best version of that effect. It's the de facto third copy of "Generic Tutor".

@@Narrified Yes...I have to do that too. However, everything you said I kinda did as well with less articulation.

It happens all the time. I think "hey that card is cool", and then remember there are a lot of other formats that allows you to have more copies of the same card Xd

​​@@Narrified "staple" "in the right deck" pick one lmao, that is not what staple means. A commander staple is for example sol ring, not some random card some doofus built a somewhat playable deck around, that is not what staple means. That tutor is not a commander staple because... nearly all other tutors are much better, lol.

Honestly I think that’s what throws us LOL, it’s the fact that it is truly simplified and we’re used to NOVELS on card effects 🤣🤣 it’s like, we see something simplified and we’re like ‘is this bait?’ 🤣 I envy the fact that y’all have simpler texts sometimes tbh. It’s all love! 🤣💞

I think a lot of the times effects on yugioh cards could be shortened to a generic class of effects including: search, mill, special summon, negate, removal ect. Most card effects are just templating on different archetypes.

Text and word recognition is a thing; us reading "You can only activate the second effect of"this card" once per turn" becomes a quick sentence we kind of skip ahead, because we are used to it's lengthy formatting 👀 TL;DR: It isn't the landscape, it's the unexplored that's overwhelming.

Well she just doesn't know what the mtg keywords mean, that's all. And Magic have way more keywords than any other card game

The thing is that MTG relies a lot on keywords to convey the effects of it's cards, so while it's really easy to understand a MTG card once you know the game a little bit, someone who's never played won't know what "black", "faerie", "rogue", "flying" etc. mean at first glance.

And also one of the big self-discard archetypes has red in it (madness)

I don't know why they keep saying FL is like Pot of Greed when it's literally Graceful Charity drawing one less.

I mean, Phoenixes, Past in Flames, Goblin Wielder/Trash for Treasure, ect... I'd argue Red does as much/more with its graveyard than any color outside of Black. If you include Madness as "graveyard things" (they are going to the graveyard) then it certainly gets the number two spot after Black IMO. Blue would be third just on the back of Snapcaster effects followed by Green with the occasional Regrowths. White takes up the rear for me just because their creature/enchantment/artifact resurrection effects tend to be played/printed less often (usually black/red do creature/artifact reanimation better so White only really stands out in enchantments).

Red has madness and flashback!! Not to mention most decks aren't mono, meaning reds specific graveyard capabilities don't matter.

I think that it didn't come to them that you can use more than one colour.

Definitely - was surprised this wasn’t mentioned! Of course getting a dinky little 1/1 seems bad to the YuGiOh player! It takes up a whole slot on the board and you can’t afford that in the game these days! That’s of course not an issue in Magic and just grows your board ever larger.

@@Amascut also if you have hundred small guys in magic you can attack and win. in yugioh, as long as there is a single bigger guy on your opponents field, you aren't getting through at all.

@@VORTEX___ also, a hundred small guys can actually be used defensively or offensively as needed. meanwhile in ygo, if you tried to use a 400 atk direct attacker to chip away at your opponent's life, you've basically just given them a direct route to your _own_ lp that they can exploit regardless of the giant dragon on your field that they can't attack over

Yes, the life cost is more than negated by the fact it can often directly attack the enemy, and otherwise it can block enemy fliers.

No that's pokemon

Blue player detected

@spykeex69 actually Mardu...I hate Blue/Green Simic Value😅

*cough* Necropotence. draw 19.

@@Nalianna thereeeeee we go

Yeah, though TBF YGO matches don't last past 2 turns, while Magic can usually go to turn 7 and beyond.

I'm not sure if they got tipped off to what tapping a card does

Think they didn't ask about tapping the card

i play both, and if that card existed in YGO it would be very bad, as an artifact it would be closely to a continuous spell card, which needing to be face-up for 4 turns just makes it a sitting duck for the myriad of removal that exists in the game, starting with things as easy to come by and popular as Knightmare Phoenix

Oh that sounds SO FUN ✨ absolutely down to come back!!

That sounds cool!

Id go further and say they should use chain lightning instead

@@Pedun42 Ooh... didn't think of that one, though, given WoTC's (incorrect) insistence on Bolt being overpowered I would prefer it. For a softball perhaps one of the Lava Axe variants being shown later in the same group as either.

Yeah I have it in my Zirda fire-breathing deck, it DEMOLISHES

It's a MTG card that basically lets you play Yugioh (because most Yugioh effects are either sorcery speed or just a Counterspell).

No one plays grimoir of the dead in 1v1 constructed, it's much too slow :)

OMg that would be HILARIOUS IM SO DOWN

Once you understand the basics of the differences between the games, you can very quickly understand the values in comparison.

I would think of "staple" as both "core card of a specific competitive meta deck" as well as "generically good support card."

Except Grim Tutor is a staple in multiple combo decks.

​@@anthonystaton3740 And singleton formats like commander where you can only have one of each tutor. This series is from one v one and non singleton lens only. Some of these cards would not be a staple or stinker in commander. Fires of invention would definitely hurt more than help in commander simply because of multi-player format two spells 3 opponents is brutal.

@@anthonystaton3740 Its really not lul.

​@MrReaperHand commander is not a real format, grim will not see play in real magic pretty much ever

Heck yeah!! 😤✨ very down to come back, this was honestly one of the most fun videos we’ve ever been a part of! ❤️

Hmm no it's not there are like 12 better tutors in edh in the color black

It's fair to list it as a stinker, even if it has a niche use. What's not fair is giving it to someone to grade that doesn't know about any of the better tutor cards around.

@@blueishgreen76 That‘s the point xD.

@@blueishgreen76 Yeah, I feel Thoralf could have at least mentioned that if you remove 1 black mana and 3 life from Grim Tutor’s cost, then the card is literally broken and banned everywhere.

Wait what? I would definitely say they are many worse tutors than Grim, especially if you need to tutor fast for the combo.

Guess we gotta come back!! 💕💕

I can’t imagine a Grimoire at 3 would survive a rotation at an edh table lol

@@Jack-uh2db Yeah, that's why I pointed the casual approach, but even then It'd be a stretch. My friends don't bring that much removal, so It could go off sometimes.

Grim Tutor was a staple in 60-card Eternal formats where Black Lotus, Lion's Eye Diamond, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, and/or Yawgmoth's Will are legal. It's just combo decks in Legacy and Vintage aren't killing people with Tendrils of Agony as often as they are with Thassa's Oracle and Monastery Mentor. For Grim Long, Grim Tutor was essentially a free spell to drive up your storm count where Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, and Demonic Tutor were banned/restricted.

@@Jack-uh2db you would need unwinding clock or counter doubler.

The problem with grimoire isn't just that it's slow. It also has too many potential counters. It's value depends entirely on being able to activate it multiple times, so if an opponent sticks a pithing needle on it, it's a dead piece of cardboard. You obviously also die to artifact removal and graveyard hate, both of which are very common and if you play it straight, you give your opponent a lot of time to find those cards. Lastly, there is the dedicated artifact untap shell... which probably won't have a high density of big creatures, so you are relying on your opponent to have a specific kind of deck? Just terrible.

Vamp and demonic tutor are only legal (restricted) in Vintage anymore in any constructed format and were completely broken historically and now as a vintage player. Grim tutor is legal in everything and is not really good enough to take advantage of tutoring. That being said if you only play commander, vamp tutor is $30 after the reprint. Great time to pick it up. And demonic tutor is about $45 so fairly cheap as powerful magic cards go.

@@joshuagriffith9191 that's still a lot to spend on a single card for some people.

@@thatstranger6114 I agree. It is something that just had to be accepted if you want to play magic buddy. Or just proxy it.

I really want to see non-MtG players (hell, non-Legacy/Odyssey block players) react to Breakthrough.

Translation is just very hard between the two games in general. Yes there are some things that carry over, but differences like how battling works, and the yugioh extra deck drastically changes how you play the two games. Like in yugioh, a monster with small stats, and no relevant effect is almost useless. Their biggest use being to using them to make monsters from the extra deck. Otherwise, a monster with 400 attack and defense is literally just useless.

Although, low stat creatures are liabilities in ygo, it would be really bad in the context.

@@mynt4033 Well, it would be tribute/synchro/link fodder once per turn, every turn after the turn it was played... with no other restrictions. It would probably also be a direct attacker in YGO to translate the Flying, for whatever that is worth.

2:31 he basically says what u said tho

@@ninfrosty2093 if they added that it creates a Tuner every turn, then it would probably make a lot more sense

Even with demonic and vampiric tutor, it's still a staple in combo decks. I don't know a single person who didnt add it to their combo deck so they have more options to tutor for their pieces. Staple for sure.

@@anthonystaton3740 What format is your reference here though?

@@PieMan061 It's used in legacy reanimator, I know it's in multiple modern decks. There Is no format not running grim tutor dude what do you mean

@@anthonystaton3740 No need to be defensive, I was just asking for clarifying examples

@@PieMan061 I'm asking what do you mean what format? Any format I guess is the answer?

As a long-term magic player, I still thought Grimm Tutor was good. To be fair I know it sucks I competitive, but In casual it's quite nice

​@@pinkfluffyant6335The effects fine and not exactly awful. But the tempo hit of sorcery speed 3cmc and bolting your own face is painful.

after the reprint its only about $15 fortunately

Card quality cannot be rated by price. There are tons of terrible cards that are very expensive. The main factor is rarity. But we also purposely try to use cards that are traps for beginner players. Grim tutor is a great example. Players would generally win more games of 1v1 if they took it out of their decks, but casual players still fall for the trap and buy it, inflating its price

Did you keep watching the video? He did the “unfortunately” as a joke to mess with them.

@@Samst0n Maybe I wasn't clear, what I meant was that it was a great example of a staple but I can see why I wasn't too clear.

💕💞 thank you all for enjoying our chaotic selves! Cardmarket gang best gang ✨

@@CrushCards you're welcome and thank you for the reply. Hopefully we see a round 2. Have a wonderful day. 😎

BRO THATS WHAT IM SAYING Just straight lied to thier faces.

Well it is in any 60 cars format, or really anything competitive

@@OtherSideLLC ?xd

@@friendly115 Grim Tutor isn't a good card in any 60 card format. it isn't currently played in pioneer, it was in a bad legacy deck (Ad Nause Tendrils), a bad modern deck (twiddle storm), and a few fringe vintage decks. Even if you look at Standard when it was legal (which is why bitter blossom is included since it was in 6 of the top 8 decks in worlds in 2008) it was in none of the worlds decks in 2021 or 2022. I see it in a few cEDH decks but honestly I don't view cEDH as all that competitive.

@@OtherSideLLC when grim tutor was legal in standard it was on every deck, it isnt popular in other formats because there are better tutors that doesnt mean its a bad card

These guys generally play modern and other things not edh or cedh. So the value to commander or competitive commander is not what they’re looking at.

I can't think of a cedh deck that would play it other that Krrik.

@@skyguytomas9615 there are some that have a lot of life gain that would be able for that to work. I know a lot of casual med decks it play it

I keep getting these ones wrong because I only play comander

I feel like we need a statement at the beginning for formats and time. Bitter blossom isn't a good in any format its legal in and depending on what the power level of standard is it might be to weak there too.

Ask him to leave pls

the staple/stinker denomination is given to cards that see o don't see play in a format, bitterblossom was a card that saw a lot of play in standard. Nikachu talks about it in modern, and there it sucks.

@@jorgemendieta8085 They actually seem to focus on modern more than standard. Bitterblosem was actually banned for a few years in modern. It's marginal now, but that's more because people actually adjust how they build decks to deal with 1/1 token generators.

Based

what do you mean? they're speaking fluent german

This is so sweet THANK YOU 💜 I’m sure we’ll be back soon! Y’all’s kindness is super wonderful it means a lot 🥹

Yeah he is like solely on Standard and Modern so his opinion is a bit infuriating sometimes.

Only bazaar would be more of a trap, lol

Honestly, I wish they had reprinted Faithless Looting during the last Innistrad visit... the Standard metagame was WAY too control heavy for almost two years and it would have helped greatly.

@@matthewkeeling886 Yeah I suppose so. I mean it's always a bit of a balancing act they need to do with red vis-a-vis blue or sometimes black and white. I feel like faithless looting is a wonderful card for that as it doesn't give actual card advantage normally. I saw more cards in the same general style though when I played a couple of random games about half a year ago. There was some card that allowed discarding a land to draw 2 cards for 1 mana, that seemed pretty strong to me in red. I like it as the lack of card draw in red just made the color less fun to play. Less cards is less decisions is less fun I feel. Anyway, I played my old janky Stasis deck and I had issues with the breakneck speed of the game as it is now. I basically lock the board down on turn 5 or 6 which used to be a tad slow but with blue it's okay. Nowadays it's not. Blue just laughs at me and red kills me with stuff that doesn't look threatening, but is actually horrible. That one-mana monkey, Radovan or something, that one in particular is disgusting. Who thought it a good idea to give red ramp?

@@utoesc6241 Giving Black or Blue ramp is FAR worse than giving it to Red. And we have the periods of total multi-format domination to prove it. Ragavan is beatable, if you are playing creatures early, High Tide or Dark Ritual both usually put the game totally out of reach or allow the deck to just win there and then when played. The issue I was talking about was the excruciatingly slow, control/combo oriented, Standard environment of most of the last couple years. Red had NO good card draw, all its ramp was both conditional and later than turn 4, it had no good burn either (and the removal was mid at best). It had to play creature based aggro with few early turn haste creatures in an environment where there 3 colors (W/B/U) had multiple early game ways to remove all creatures on the board or stabilize on turn 4 without ramp. There were several month stretches with no viable aggro decks at all in the format in any color. Giving Red some really good card draw would have helped alleviate the issue somewhat and helped a format that was struggling mightily, without affecting any other format (the card is legal in all potentially affected formats other than Standard already).

@@matthewkeeling886 Do keep in mind I am from a different era. Your complaints can be completely valid, but I have not lived that experience you have nor do I understand the context current cards are living in. I know how things were back when I quit. In those times, stuff like Dark Ritual meant nothing to me, it costs a card and black drops an engine piece for card advantage to get back in the game. Bounce the piece and it's time to cry. Blue has never had any decent ramp in my age except for Tolarian Academy (which is broken). You wanted speed you went for black or artifacts, else you just sit back and try to control the board until you have your combo ready to go. I do agree red should have access to proper card draw OR good ramp. It's one of the most difficult colors to balance because if red is fast it's dominant and if it's slow it can't compete. There are no other options due to the kamikaze style it has. What it needs is space in the middle, which you get with card draw or ramp. All other colors have options that allow them to sit back and soak up pressure. Red has next to none. Ragavan however to me looks broken still, like it's good at 2 mana and still playable at 3. It is only 1 mana. I have read that it's one of the most powerful cards printed in the last couple of years. Then I read about Oko being orders of magnitude more powerful. I wept reading that card for the first time. It's so obviously broken. MTG has gone crazy on the power creep, makes Urza's block feel normal at times.

@@utoesc6241 I was actually playing Ritual in a Necro deck and both Academy and High Tide in a mono blue control deck 20 years ago myself. I know exactly what these cards can do. In the average hand the older High Tide (from all the way back in Fallen Empires) is likely to be more useful than Academy (which needs more specific pieces around it) but has a lower power ceiling. It can be nearly impossible to come back from an early game Ritual when it allows things like Necro on turn 1. Another thing to note, I was talking about Standard and Ragavan is not in Standard and never has been. It is from one of the "Straight to Modern" sets that bypass Standard and the reprint that is in the up-coming set is in the "not in Standard" section they have been adding to them recently. A lot of the best Red cards have been bypassing Standard that way. I, personally, enjoy Standard due to problematic cards always eventually leaving, allowing for lots of cool deck designs. Red had a period with no good ramp or card draw for a while just as we were coming out of Covid isolation and this coincided with the release of a whole bunch of really good cards for control decks that completely reset the field right as aggro decks in all colors ran out of resources. This caused the entire metagame to stall into a midrange-combo vs. control-combo mess, and the good combos weren't even interesting in design.