Yu-Gi-Oh's New Player Problem GOT WORSE... 

Cimo: "They're going to spend more time reading text than playing the game" Me playing Master Duel: "What the fuck does this card do?" Reads 2 paragraphs of text

The fact that it's a starter deck for two players and they didn't even include something as a playmat or a rulebook. Either it was a massive oversight, they had way too much faith in the comic, or they just wanted to actually appeal to players for the Zeus reprint

I'm surprised that they didn't even put the paper zones/playmat

I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but I'd love to see some kind of modern Duel Academy themed video game designed to gradually introduce mechanics and deliberately expand your card pool that someone looking to learn Yugioh can go to for a paced introduction to all of the mechanics. It's just not something that any singular starter deck would be able to cover nearly as well.

My favorite part of the book is the brief little bit of it acknowledging that pendulums exist, and also even admitting that making them was a bit of a mistake.

Team APS's Paul basically said the same things. I agree wholeheartedly

3:15 Konami making the 5D chess play of actively filtering out people who won't read.

So I actually design board games semi-professionally now. 'The teach' is the most important part and basically your job as a game designer is to make the game as easy to learn as possible while still providing the full game experience. The problem with Yu-Gi-Oh is... A bit more intrinsic to the state of yugioh. We saw with Rarran that yuguoh simply doesnt play intuitively with its mechanics... Meaning theres a huge logical leap that has to be made between learning the mechanics and getting sold into yugioh. I dont think this problem is solvable without a third party (fans introducing other people to the game). Which is a massive problem for the longevity of a game. The easiest way to describe this is as follows: the moment a card asks a player to search their deck for a card, a new player is completely lost. They need to know what 40 other cards are in their deck, combo lines, etc. but every single deck in yugioh plays this way... So how do you provude a new player experience that is accurate to the game?

I think Visas Starfrost is fine to include. It has a lot of text, yes, but the effects are pretty simple, and it teaches you a lot of things about modern yugioh : - Most of the time, monsters with high levels will have an effect to put them on the board - Effects can have conditions to fullfill to be activated - Effect can be activated in the hand - It teaches what are monster Attributes and Types - It has a battle effect, which reinforces the basics of combat and ATK/DEF interactions

You should do a series with some other yugitubers where you all make a starter deck themed around a specific part of the game and find some non yugioh people to go head to head with your decks.

That AVGN quote man, memories ^^

When links came out, I saw your video and you explained things perfectly for a new player to understand. Obviously, there are some niche rules that you only learn by playing the game. HOWEVER, Konami should do a similiar thing in creating videos for basic and advanced rules.

The AVGN Atari 5200 reference blindsided me lmao, but the whole video basically echoes my sentiments.

I feel like they should have included a Level 8 and 9 synchro too, to allow players to experiment a little and not have the "oh shit i'm off by one level" feeling

If I was in charge of this, I would have made 3 2-player starter sets: Fusion Vs Ritual Synchro Vs Xyz Pendulum Vs Link Effectively, sub optimally constructed archtypes featuring staples: Set 1 would be Polymerization Heroes Vs BLS (anime fans) Set 2 would be Blackwing Vs Tellarknights (to be fair to Cimo, these are really good picks that are easy to learn) Set 3 would be Towerless Qli vs World Chalice with no out of archtype staples

It's incredible how they managed to make a product that neither new or old players like...

Konami should have definitely tested this product with new players before releasing it. The big oversight of no playmat is actually insane.

Zeus seems like a great include honestly AS A BOSS MONSTER SPECIFICALLY. You say how it’s better for this starter set to focus mostly on simple, intuitive cards, but like… Yugioh doesn’t have a lot of those nowadays. Having a big epic robot man with a board wipe, a relatively simple summoning condition and a boatload of attack makes for a card that would stick out in a lot of kids minds. And they can take that Zeus with them into future, more advanced decks, since it’s still a very good card even in the modern game. Yeah, it has a lot of text, but that’s something about modern Yugioh that does need teaching. Figuring out which effects are relevant and which aren’t. It’s not like Zeus has a bunch of ongoing effects, they’re pretty one and done.

I feel like a 4-deck box would be good. Two starter decks like these that teach the basic mechanics and two structure decks that teach what real Yugioh is like.

From a PSCT perspective Eldlich is fantastic. He's teaching players ";" ":" "Targeting" "Then" "and if you do" "hard once per turns". Cost, Activation condition the activated effect when your opponent can respond effect resolution. (Pure guess crow is to stop lich revive teaching hand traps + loosing card advantage). Depending how the included guide explains it, thats all very important game knowledge as the cardboard doesnt glow yellow unfortunately.

Honestly if I was to design this I'd make the comic about an older joey and yugi getting back into the game. The first half would be them going over the basics of the game and 2nd would be them learning newer ones. If I made this a single player starter I'd use 2 different archetype decks each with 2 special summon mechanics . You would not shuffle the deck and fight against a video of pegasus who cheats to know your cards and talk you through the game

It's also doesn't help when TCG cards don't have the number symbols to break the text like the OCG cards.

Speaking as someone that actually played through the Starter Set, script and all, overall, the best thing(s) I can say is that this should’ve been part 1 of a mini-series of similar sets, with one or two pleasant surprises in showcasing mechanics like Battle Replay, for instance. I will say that this video did slightly lower my opinion on the set, partially due to things you brought up that I hadn’t even considered, like the lack of playmats. I-wha-what the-WHAT?! That is one hell of an oversight to make. In the set’s defense, though, some of the card choices make a little more sense if you actually go through the scripted duel. For example, one of the reasons for an abundance of Normal monsters is that the script tries to teach players that there’s technically six different ways a battle between two monsters will play out, and I imagine they felt like having them be effect monsters would distract from that. That’s just speculation on my part, though, and that kind of logic isn’t 100% consistent with the rest of the script IIRC. To go in another direction, though, maybe trying to teach the game in one duel *is* the problem. Maybe we need multiple sets to fully teach what Yugioh entails. Maybe have a (redesigned) starter set that teaches the basics, then an intermediate set that teaches more nuances in the game, and then an advanced set that either teaches even more complexity and/or introduces cards that break the rules. It would certainly make for an interesting design challenge, regardless of whether you’re sticking to one set or trying to spread it out across multiple.

We are of the same mind. This product just fell completely flat. Feels very half-baked.

Its insane how the new master duel addition of giving new and returning players a swordsoul deck is just so much better at doing the exact thing this is supposed to do. And for free too.

2:00 Yes, even the newer Structure Decks. Also the Starter Deck Kaiba that I bought way back when I was a little lad.

the random comp reprints show that yugioh needs to support its casual play better. pokemon low play level products dont have the issue of random competive cards and focus on its intended level. yugioh is so comp focused they have to constantly service the competive.

Funny enough, A lightsworn deck is the most beginner friendly deck. It helped me coming back to the game back then, it helped my friends I introduced. It's got synchro and XYZ, flip, continuous effects, tribute summon, card synergy (archetypes), effects are very easy to understand. It has everything. Konami should've just use that deck.

I think the amount of normal monsters makes sense to teach new players about basic atk/def stats, battling, and tribute summoning first. Starting right with effect monsters could be a bit overwhelming when you don't have any clue yet how to read cards.

I agree with what you said about keeping it archetype based. I feel like the decks similar to what was in the Legendary Dragon and Legendary Hero sets would've been better for starting players. Most everything in those was pretty simple and straightforward, and they gave a good feel for their archetypes but left plenty of room to grow.

I actually can see an argument for Thousand Knives, if only because it's a decent step up when trying to explain the condition-cost-effect trifecta of card text. Dark Hole has only an effect, Fissure has a cost, Thousand Knives has a condition. They all pretty much do the same thing, too, so it also teaches two additional lessons: generic cards are typically more valuable, and conditional cards need strong enough effects to be worth playing.

Tbf they are doing a good job regarding prepping new players to the game. They are teaching them to learn to read a wall of text.

I think the inclusion of wordy cards and stuff like Visas and Zeus is kind of a good thing. As it introduces new players to what good/modern cards are like. If there were only cards with short and easy card texts there is no transition into the "real" Yugioh if that person would be interested to continue playing. Still agree that this product is far from optimal but at least they tried. I'd rather see a starter set like this that includes like 2 modern structure decks but pre-shuffled so they can still play them scripted.

I have to say that im surprised they didnt go with junk cards for the syncro deck, seems like a big missed opportunity.

Apprentice Piper being a bad card is a TERRIBLE take. It's a very clear, simple demonstration of how different parts of a sequence are each their own "action". One attack is declared, but an effect will activate on flip, then another will activate on destruction. I also think the normal monsters are there to reduce the number of cards a new player has to read in their hand at the start of the game.

“I can’t believe I’m gonna say this but Blackwing could be the answer here” No Cimo…. You knew EXACTLY what you were doing here 😂😂

Y'know, after hearing your opinions of this, it seems they were actually onto something when they got the idea for a school teaching how to play a card game. It's starting to seem like we need one at this point. 😆

Really enjoy the podcast like discussion videos. Hope to see this kind of thing regularly!

I like teaching people in segments, where you have normal monsters, some basic effect monsters, some of each spell and trap type. 2 identical decks with basic cards like this are a good place to start, especially if each deck has 1 of each card name. Then introducing people to fusions, XYZ, synchro, link, and pendulums with a basic strategy for each. If the starter product had 1 deck of each extra type would be good too. Each player could then try each of these decks vs each other for a lot of games. Probably a total of 7-8 decks would make a nice product.

Personally I learned to play through the Tag Force series of games (it taught me that extra deck monsters get sent to the extra deck instead of returning to the hand with cards like evac device real early) And I feel that 5 and 6's and special's decks were friendly. But for new players? Look at Special's 3 starter decks they all have multiple 2 and 3 ofs and clear strats (while keeping the spells and traps simple) in the main deck and I want to stress the 2 and 3 ofs; as a new player that's less cards I have to memorize! That makes internalizing their effects and how they work easier, it makes thinking of how some of them go together easier and its how I tackle new card games

i really like this discussions videos, love to see different opinions from titans in the comunity!

I agree, that fact that this is just a giant mash up of random stuff seems very not Yugioh. It didn't even have to be an archetype, as an example the xyz deck could have been a Fish/Shark deck.

*(TL,DR at the bottom)* - the biggest issue with this product is that it doesnt teach you deck building principles at all, which is arguably the most important thing in both casual and competitive play. i want to stress that the difficulty of the environment isnt important for this. noone will play 'lord of d.' and 'flute of summoning dragon' in blue-eyes when you can play 'galactic spiral dragon' instead. the importance of deck building is critical to both having fun in yugioh and winning. - the cards stink, there are better, more modern (and simpler) cards that do the same thing that these cards do. like including piper for example, that doesnt help you in any way to understand flip mechanics, whereas shaddolls, a set of cards that both activate when sent by card effect, trigger when flipped and can be used as fusion materials (even when face down) would be better inclusions that apprentice piper. the point here is: if you're teaching new players about how the game is played, you wanna teach them about when cards trigger and why, and how those two things synergise. it teaches you timing as well. piper doesnt - the 'rule book' doesnt actually teach you how and why something happens, it just tells you that it happens, no explanations, no reasons, just tells you to do the thing and you do it. like if it dumps an extra deck monster, then never revives it, the 'rule book' doesnt tell you that you can't revive it because it wasnt properly summoned, instead, it just never does that interaction and never clarifies. i could go on for ages about this bad product, but the solution is simple: a much easier fix would be to make the official rules accessible to all players by printing a rulings handbook for OTS stores to sell. and maybe much like the manga books, include a sealed promo or 2 with the handbook.

I already had to pause at 1:21 and marvel in awe at that HxH-esque textbox, wow

I found the easiest way for me to relearn the game was though the master duel solo mode. Each mode had a focus on a playstyle and introduced things at a slow enough pace that i felt like it was doing a pretty ok job at letting me know things i didnt know

Even when there is no intro he finds a way to include a HOWEVER!

1:43 AVGN reference 🤓

Ya know its funny i was just playing the Starter Set with my Fiancee and i REALLY was feeling the lack of a playmat. Even just a cheap paper one would've worked wonders i feel

I wish the comic told the synchro player to banish Eldlich with DD Crow

I think the idea of specific archetypes would be great. It keeps things a lot simpler. Fusion could do something like maybe Fluffal, Ritual could be maybe Nekroz? Solid archetypes for all options. As someone relearning the game i agree this product looks bad

Somehow the product specifically designed to help the new player experience managed to fall short of both SPeed Duel box sets, which are a less comprehensive entry point, but allow one to explore the basics and easily get a lot more people involved and Master Duel, which is a free mobile app and provides some of the most intuitive and visual tutorials this game has. At least the concept has some promise in a vacuum, but the execution seems very poor

Cimo is a great teacher, I'd love to see him put together his own "new player" starter decklists.

I have been teaching the game to a younger player recently - started with speed duels and then moved on to Goat Format (which is a great teaching tool because of the emphasis on resource management and because there are so many videos on RU-vid where people demonstrate the strategies. Very interesting to hear your perspective on this product as an introduction to the game. It seems like a huge missed opportunity for Konami: limited formats (like your progression series) have never been more popular and there are a ton of creators hopping into the limited format space. It seems like it would have been possible to create an introduction to the game that imitated some of the popular features of limited formats - something like a DM era structure deck with five packs of sets from the era. You get some of the fun of pack opening and deck building but with a lot of guidance. Then, if the new player is enjoying the experience, there would be a 5Ds and then a GX era product a few months later for them to level up and learn the game. It's not an ideal solution but it ypasses the problem of teaching twenty year's worth of mechanics in one afternoon and it incorporates the appeal of opening packs to build up your deck.

I actually disagree with the if it's too much to read it will turn people off of playing it point. Look at a dnd manual, and then the extra manuals that are just creatures and beasts, yet still DnD has been growing in popularity for several years. Yes some editions have been more accessible than others, but the user base has increased. We also live in the age of the internet where if someone gets really confused their first though is to log on and just look it up.

I will argue that 6 normal monsters each deck is fine cause it makes the opening hands less complicated. We all know the problem where you hand the opponent a structure deck and you have to wait for them to read all their cards. By having the first 6 cards not have any effects it makes the game much easier as you have safety in having cards that are basically numbers (Level, ATK, and DEF) and now only have to read 1 card a turn afterwards. Now 7-8 normals is definitely pushing it.

Also contrary to Cimos opinion on the normal monsters, I actually think a deck that has primarily normal monsters and spells traps with only one line of text would be the best way to learn. No monster effects at all and just focus on attacking. They could even turn it into a story. They could make a chapter 2 version a few months later that introduces more complicated mechanics like a fusion summon or non normal spells and traps etc. Then chapter 3 and so on. "If" a product like this would sell is the only issue. Best way to teach yugioh is to keep it as stupid simple as possible at first.

Forbidden Lance would've been great for teaching about effect negation tbh, not much text, straight to the point

I do agree with a lot of what is being said, but I'm gonna vouch for Eldlich's inclusion. Yeah, it has a lot of text on it, but i think it can teach a lot of important lessons about modern yugioh. First off, it teaches the difference between destroying and sending to the gy. Like, have the opponent's deck include a battle floater and have the Eldlich player send it, preventing its effect from triggering, something along those lines. Second, you can pair it with cards like galaxy cyclone or breakthrough skill to show the importance of gy setup. Third, and probably most important in my eyes, it can teach the importance of utility monsters. The other deck has d.d. crow, so you could have a turn or two to show how much of a recursive threat Eldlich is, then you can banish it with d.d. crow. The decks are far from a perfect teaching tool for new players, but there are some neat synergies here.

a couple solutions since this an ongoing issue for the game that needs to be addressed, but creating two "archetypes" meant specifically for teaching the game. that way they could touch base on everything in meaningful and intuitive and in two decks that can work independently. another option is a similar product with much better revisions but using the evolution method where you have the small packages that you open and are advised a list to make changes in the deck. " this pack will teach you about fusion and ritual summons" "this will teach you about traps and hand traps" etc. and they can ramp up the amount of text and reduce the amount of cards you add each evolution pack to add into your deck only worry about that option is cost since it will probably contain more card and want to charge for them.

For the normal monsters I think that the best option would actually be one of the 2K beaters. This would make a better turn 1 play because one player would look at the hand and see, "None of my level 4 or lower monsters has more than 2000 ATK" which can be an aside that teaches "usually level 4 or lower monsters don't have more than 2000 ATK" and in the context of a scripted duel it immediately provides a problem that one player needs to solve. Cardcar D referencing main phase 1 is one thing but I think my own gripe with it being included is that it's a card I think is too risky for a new player. "I have to give up my entire turn just to draw 2?" It sets expectations but I can't help but feel like there are far better choices to introduce whatever it was trying to introduce. D.D. Crow is a fine addition but the way the scripted duel uses it is insane. "Your opponent sent Skill Successor and Golden Lord to the GY this turn. Use D.D. Crow on... Skill Successor." Then when the decks are shuffled the Xyz player is sitting with a freaking GOLDEN LORD in GY and the set acts like it's not a foregone conclusion. On top of the Xyz player getting Zeus, them also having Golden Lord makes me suspicious that the person who took the Synchro deck will generally have a worse time just from the product lineup. Sergeants is definitely an odd pick but I think Catastor wouldn't be fun to include, because it would be too annoying to play against. There aren't a ton of fully generic Level 5 Synchros with simple and fun effects unfortunately but something like Hi-Speedroid Chanbara is probably generic "enough." If the deck gets more Warriors (I think that Sergeants is part of why they needed so many Fiends in the deck) then X-Saber Wayne or Scarred Warrior would probably be a fine level 5 Synchro. My issue with Rhynosaber is that it's a really passive card. Like it can become a big boy but its primary effect is to just replace itself with different cards. That's not really fun for a player, to say, "Yay, I got out my Synchro monster... Now I'm going to immediately tribute it." A generic level 7 like Kuibelt the Blade Dragon that has a floating effect rather than a "send me to the GY" effect would be better. Or Samurai Destroyer - I know that the idea of Night Beam feeling bad to play against is a reason to cut it but a "non-reactable" effect on a boss monster like Samurai Destroyer would be fine to make it feel like an actual impactful monster, and it being on a monster sitting on the field allows the opponent to strategize around it - plus the decks don't have too many battle traps so Samurai Destroyer would not often feel that bad to play against. I'd probably opt for Samurai Destroyer. While I think leaning full into archetypes might be a bit too much and you could easily to "archetype-esque" and just have a deck with a general focus without specifically being an archetype, like "Warrior Synchro vs. Sharks" or "Fiend Synchro vs Machine Xyz."

One point for Burden of the Mighty in the XYZ deck is to teach that Ranks are not Levels

I played this with my partner, (who has a masters degree in engineering) and at some point it just got exhausting. The phases of the game from draw to end, normal summoning, setting, attacking, life points, spell and trap cards were all somewhat fine. But as soon as another card turned up, that was like full of text, it felt depressing for her. It was too much information in too little time (we needed almost 2 hours for the scripted duel (I play this game for 15 years now, so i knew what happened, but she had a lot of questions). I even brought playmates so that it is easier to understand and that helped a lot actually. But Cards like Zeus and the Mannadium one are just far too complex and even some effect monsters took us more than 10 minutes in order for her to truly understand what she was doing (which was not fun). When we then ended on explaining chains, she was like "Yeah whatever" and honestly me too. You definitely need more products that explain the game step by step. Honestly extra deck monsters are too complex for someone not knowing the game at all and even effect monsters should not have more than 1 or two lines of text. I also severely underestimated how complex this stuff is when you never encountered this before. I believe optimal would be a starter deck for 10 bucks which contains around 20 Cards per deck mostly vanillas and simple spell and trap cards so that you can really learn the game (did this with my partner for the pokemon card game (which I dont know at all) and it was easy to understand, fun and there are follow up products for you to take the next step.

I do think you bring some good points I haven't seen yet. They should have added some more stuff to this set like mats. And the extra decks could have been a little more simple for sure. That said, I do think some of the criticism misses the point a bit. At the end of the day, this is for kids first and totally fresh players second. No one else. I think you need to teach tributes with vanilla monsters first otherwise you are pulling people in too many directions. They also use the vanillas to teach a bunch of different combat scenarios iirc. So not having to worry about effects while learning the most basic interactions in Yugioh is a good call imo, even if it makes the deck worse to replay. And having a hand with nothing but vanilla monsters to start with is the single most approachable hand you can start someone with. So I think 5/6+ is the minimum, not 2 as a max. I do think Eldlich is a bit much, but I also do love the interaction they do with it. You have a Call of the Haunted left over on the field and use that for his effect. Maybe parallel twister or something would have been better to get the same result. However, even if they don't remember that interaction right away, I think it is good to plant the seed in players that just because a card is dead doesn't mean it can't be useful. XYZ Reborn I think is also really good. Just so players understand that you can have pretty much anything as an XYZ material, and it's a very simple card to teach that without having to use trap monsters or other weird material attaching cards. At the end of the day though, I think this set is overall good for absolute beginners coming in with zero knowledge. BUT they need a follow up, intermediate product to bridge those players to modern Yugioh. Maybe something like a Time Wizard Edison 2-player starter set or at least something around that power level. But with the growing support for Time Wizard formats that Konami has been doing recently, I think something like that would be possible and a good fit. I could even see it being a hit with non-new players if you make it a good intro for players that haven't played Edison and if you add a few reprints for some pricier Edison cards. But it needs to come out soon otherwise people are going to forget about this product and interest will fall off. TL;DR- Set good for people that have seen less than 10 Yugioh Cards in their life, but we need a follow up to bridge the gap to modern like Edison starter decks.

3:57 i mean if they dont want to read the rulebook they are already on course with every other player. Nobody reads - not even their own cards.

adding a book to read is basically the same as giving someone a VHS tape of how to do it oddly enough though the VHS wouldve been better

@ 34:35 - "there isn't necessarily a right or a wrong way to learn" As someone with non-zero experience being a professor / instructor / classroom facilitator at the post-secondary level (for mostly first-year undergraduate students), yes, there is more than one effective way to learn - but there are also many, many, many 'wrong' ways to try and teach people. I think this 'Starter Set' - and the discourse that it's generated in the community - might be revealing something very interesting about the mindset of many Yugioh players. This mindset might be majorly mistaken or at least majorly misguided. I'd make a video about this if I weren't both injured and under some real-life deadlines at the moment. But basically, the major issue that I'm seeing is that players are effectively looking for what amounts to 'Pedagogy Circular' - the cards that can just do everything all at once as efficiently* as possible. To use some gamer jargon that I don't see very often in Yugioh contexts: players have been trained to highly value "role compression" - when you have 1 thing that does more than 1 thing, this is efficiency and versatility from a strategic point of view. In competitive Yugioh, we like cards with role compression because cards are resources, and the more roles those resources can fulfill, the more valuable they are (from a strategic point of view). Yes, a card like [Visas Starfrost] /would/ be very efficient at quickly exposing players to many parts of the game all at once. . . but that's not a good thing from a pedagogical point of view. When it comes to teaching and learning, this is often the exact opposite of what you would want. Generally, you would want /de-compression/ - pulling things apart, pacing it out, and extending the look at each individual part so you can focus on each thing. Once you learn the parts, you slowly begin cobbling them together and then using what you've built as a base or frame to better learn the next thing. This is called "scaffolding." Building a deck that is most efficient at quickly showing off all the different facets of Yugioh's game mechanics AND the trends of its meta-game competitive aspects . . . might be one of least effective things to shoot for in teaching new players meaningful things.

There were 2 good options they could have done for the decks. Generic Xyz and synchro(goblindberg type stuff vs jester confit type stuff) Or Onomatopoeia vs junk/stardust They did neither and gave you ojamas

Honestly there is probably no way physical content can get anyone up to speed with modern YuGiOh. Honestly, YuGiOh: Legacy of the Duelist - Link Evolution is probably the best way to learn. Start off with duels right out Duelist Monsters as the pace slowly speeds up to the pace of 2019. Then the jump from here to Master Duel or the TCG is probably not as jarring a leap

When my wife wanted to learn the game, I taught her in eras. Start with the original game and work your way up through the different summoning methods once they totally grasp what came before.

One thing that would remove complexity, but is never going to happen because that is how Konami operates these Starter/Structure products: Just put in multiples of some cards. If you put Warrior returns alive in here, give them 2 or 3 of that and then 2 or 3 Sparkman Heroes/any Warrior that is not too complex and you just shaved off some more complicated cards.

How would I design this? I think others have proposed this already, but: Make the 2 starter decks a pure Swordsoul deck and a pure Despia Deck (so we're teaching synchro and fusion). Then in the manual instead of a boring scripted duel between 2 nobodies, we change that so the scripted duel is lore based, Aluber attacking the Swordsoul clan. Hell, we can even expand this as a 2 product starter box, and the other decks being Pure Tri-brigade vs Pure Springans for (link vs xyz), same deal, a comic showing a face off between the 2 archetypes. That way you pretty much cover all the summoning mechanics minus pendulum and ritual. The scripted duels don't need to be that long, but it would teach new players the basics while also teaching them combos they can actually use, and using some competent archetypes. If we need to simplify the decks even more, then we can go for the duel terminal series: Ice Barrier (synchro) Gem Knights (fusion) Constellar (xyz). IDK.

Im going to be honest; when my friend wanted to get back into the game, i told him the best way to learn was to pick up the game Legacy of the Duelist: Link Evolution and from there i guided him with strategies and deck building until he felt comfortable building a real life deck which i also helped with by giving him extra copies i had or helping with trades for cards he needed. He's still learning rulings and some new mechanics but hes doing well enough on his own that hes feel comfortable playing the game at his own pace at locals despite losing frequently to meta decks. Hes learning his decks weaknesses and strengths and started to seek cards on his own to strengthen his deck and be prepared for particular strategies that give him a hard time. I hate directing new players toward a video game, but honestly, Legacy of the Duelist is the way to go. It covers the new mechanics and gives them story as well as story based decks to help them learn the mechanics at their own pace and rewards losing with DP that can be used to purchase packs in game without the involvement of real currency.

Great discussion. Overall I like the product but I'm a guy that buys all the starters and structures when they come out no matter what just because I enjoy playing them with friends. Limited formats like that are my absolute favorite to play. Structure vs structure right out of the box. That's fun to me.

For a boss monster that I found when I first opened was Tierra, Source of Destruction. I read it for the first time (too much text for a brand new player) but the artwork is really cool, and the effect is cool when it resolves. 1. specials at any point once you have 10 other cards in play (not including gy unfortunately) 2. can't be negated (would make the person not playing it feel bad so idk) 3 Wipes everything back to deck, so it is a full reset of the game, except for Tierra itself. But for younger me, it was so cool that I wanted to build a deck around summoning the card.

The way i would do it, is have multiple starter decks. First would be like a 20 card deck with just GOAT format cards to teach the basics ( summoning, where trap and spells go, learn the different phases, how to battle) Then i would have a 30 card deck with two easy archetypes for synchro and xyz. Have the player choose 10 of the generic cards from the 20 card deck to complete the deck to 40 cards. This teaches them how they can use cards to make their deck better. The third deck would be the same idea but with link and fusion mechanics.

23:38 gotta say that Star Changer is an overlooked card, it can mess up the synchros of your opponents, i have seen some videos about those decks and every time, the owner of this card just keep it in hand and the opponents goes off. i like it because is not super powerful but its modularity leads to the strategic element of interaction in yugioh.

I think a good beginner archetype for the Synchro deck would be Speedroid; Terrortop, Double Yo-Yo, and Red-Eyed Dice all have very simple, yet powerful effects. Probably wouldn't include the more complex cards like Cork Shooter tho.

I personally think blackwing would probably be way more powerful then tellarknights for newer players. I believe that if i could choose a synchro arcytype, u would go for the Crystron archytpe. It was the deck that taught me how to synchro summon. None of the synchro monsters are overpowered and only do 2 things max, but still feel satisfying to pull off. It can also demonstrate how you can use resources form not just the hand, but also the graveyard and banish zone. This archetype does need some brainpower, but it is so nice to use.

several archetypes just straight up function exist with a thrice per turn cap to special summoning. Like VW will *maybe* be able to make shenshen and have Nyannyan out and that’s it. It’s entirely built around bringing out all 5 main deck VW monsters over the course of the turn and without that it has absolutely nothing to do.

Any product marketed as a "starter" deck or set MUST include everything a new player needs to get started. Other card games could get away without a playmat, because the position of cards is less important (ex: deck, discard pile, and main area). Regardless, every card game should include a playmat in starter products anyway, just in case. The fact that a Yugioh "starter set" for 2 players has 0 playmats is inexcusable. Its fine to include some cards that are a bit boring or weak, as long as they fit in with the main mechanic of the deck and can be used without much trouble. Level 7 normal monsters that have no synergy with the rest of the deck are inexcusable. They are destined to be bricks and nothing more. What I see are mostly generic cards like swords of revealing light that (while fine inclusions) don't really service the main mechanic of the deck. These decks feel like random assortments of commons with no clear theme. The effort is great, but they really fumbled the execution here. At this point, players are better off buying 2 structure decks (each one comes with a free playmat) for the same price.

As someone who bought this recently, i was also disappointed there was no paper play mat. The scripted duel was...entertaining at best. I would have taught this a different way, and i don’t think the physical product is the way to go, albeit the idea is kinda neat to be more "hands on". Alternatively enough going against what i said in terms of a physical product, i remember the duel masters DVD guide back in the day was very helpful for me and my friends. I don't think Konami should do another one 🤔 but perhaps Dan Green & Wayne Grayson (Yugi & Joey VA's), explaining the rules made the material more interesting to learn at a younger age when it released.

xyz vs synchro is fine. I'd give each player a basic rulebook and non-scripted optional guide for each deck, explaining basic combos and just let them duke it out on their own. Give them generic cards with very little text that have synergies for reasons other than archetype, basically a low-key "good stuff" pile. For back row I'd go only for normal, equip spells and normal traps, maaaaaybe quick-spells. Then introduce archetypes and other card types in an intermediate 2-player set with basically edison format

They could have put gravity bind or level limit area b in there for attraffic control to teach how xyz Monsters do not have a level, but a rank.

I'd personally have a deck of each summoning mechanic that could be a somewhat rogue archtype that can really hammer home how each summoning mechanic works. I'd go Fluffle for fusion: Don't use the pendulum monsters in this or any archtype i mention and focus on using fusion summoning and get mileage out of poly. I'd go with Mayakashi with Synchro: While a more complicated archtype, learning Mayakashi would really teach a player how to synchro and how to climb. I think once you learn the loop, it really isn't that hard and then you get down a really strong fundamental on how climbing works. I'd be open to other ideas than this, but it was the first thing i thought of that really pulled the strength of synchro and how to climb. Gagaga or Photon toolbox: This one is a bit more generic, though i think teaching players that generic support can be strong and just how versatile the xyz rank 4 toolbox is can really teach them that they can use the extra deck as a one stop shop to solve any situation they're in. it'd be the lowest ceiling of any of the decks, but it would never really be stuck and out of luck if it can land 2 rank 4s on board. Igknight would be how i'd teach Pendulums; Let's be clear, Pendulums are the outlier of the summoning mechanics, so to teach them i'd really want to focus on the pendulum mechanics and not the monsters around it. So a fully normal monster deck with all the same pendulum effect could really help players understand the mechanic without being overwhelmed. This deck would have to have the strongest trap and spell support to stay in line with the other decks, but i think it could be done to balance the decks out while teaching the player how pendulums work on paper. For links, this one was the hardest for me to land on, but Gouki felt like the right level of learning how to link with a good focus on it while not being distracted by other mechanics. This one i'd be willing to hear other ideas the most however finally, if you were to look into also including main deck mechanics like tribute or ritual decks: For rituals i'd go with impcantation with a splash of Demise, this would be a nice strong board wipe option while giving the players a nice splashable engine for other ritual archetypes if they wanted to use it. and then for tribute, it's really either monarch or true draco, so take your pick. I'd argue that true draco is stronger but monarchs are more iconic. But these could just be ignored all together really.

36:36 Cimo really busted out the “Why don’t we play…. BLACKWINGS” 😂😂

I really like the archtype idea at the end. I think a simple pure Metalfoes deck with some generic tuners and a generic Extra Deck of simple text monsters is good for new players because Metalfoes is actually good, it can play very simple, and introduce new players to Links, Fusion, Xyz, Synchro, Pendulum, even Tribute Summoning, either individually and then incorporate all of them slowly. The new player learns Pendulum first to get the most complicated summoning mechanic out of the way. Fortunately, Metalfoes are mostly normal and all have the same Pendulum text which are very short making it easy to remember. At the same time they learn Fusion to use the Metalfoes fusion cards. Only Pendulum and Fusion will be taught first in part 1 of the tutorial. Until they get used to it they cannot advance, but once they do they proceed to Xyz and slowly get used to it and incorporate Xyz in the practice duels alongside Fusion and Pendulum Summoning. It's easier to see the same levels then adding up levels. That's why I chose learning Xyz before Synchro. Then Synchro and repeat the process. Then lastly Links. The ultimate and final graduation test is to play the deck incorporating everything you learn, and Metalfoes can play Tributes, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulum, and Links. I believe the new player can do it with a mostly Pure Metalfoes deck.

Just to add a bit of context from a new player perspective here... my brother played yugi oh back in the first year it came out... i kept gpoing for a bit but he did not, he also watched the anime... I just Bought a deck yesterday... more like 3 structure decks... i tried to get him to play with me and he said... if the deck is full of effect and weird mechaincs monsters I WILLNOT PLAY... either remove all those monsters or i am not gonna play at all... And honestly i agree with that sentiment from his perspective... i hate having to keep track of 10 effect monsters at the time in both the field and grave yard... it keeps my attention hyper focused on what is going on and makes me forget about having fun... So i think a starter deck with normal monsters on the not so low count is WAY better at least from a beginner's perspective... you can have more text fillled cards in les basic decks but probably not a good idea in STARTER decks...

Props to cimo for being one of the few big creators that went and actually pointed out the flaws in this "starter set" product. Honestly it's kind of embarrasing for creators like MBT or Farfa to give so much praise to a flawed product like this when it fails on what it aims to do, for example some of it's biggest mistakes being no playmat, no tokens, a super messy and wordy rulebook "comic" that doesn't even explain everything there is to know about the game, really weird and janky starter decks, etc. Konami should do much better than this and we should let them know.

Cimo please bring the intro back for these discussion videos … for nostalgia reasons 😂

I have a great idea Cimo! Use these deck lists as a framework but make your own version of each, then use the decks you made to try and teach a new player how to play yugioh :) It might be difficult to find a new player but with your reach you could probably do it.

As a newish player who migrated from magic and hearthstone the one thing I can take with me from those two games that would help a new player a lot would be something like a standard format. There's way too many available cards for a new player to digest.

Glad you are here to critique this set because so many people were defending this saying it was good. Its bad for literally everyone. Its bad for new players. Its bad for old players. This product is for almost no one. Ive seen this product played in person and it goes off the rails without guidance from someone that knows what they are doing so fast. On top of that the question gets asked "What do we do when we have played 1 time" You just end up with a pile of worthless cards likely in the hands of 2 players that still have no clue in the world as to how to play the game still.

I just realized another really good card for a starter product: Bubonic Vermin. It teaches the Flip mechanic, Special Summoning, a sort of tutoring/floating, and shows that you can have multiples of the same card in your Deck, for better (I can get to the card more easily) or worse (Dangit, I drew multiple Vermin in my opening hand).

Great Video, I love the the AVGN reference 😂, too good 👍

One thing you forgot to mention for a new player. It gets expensive

ANOTHER CIMOCAST LETSGO

I'm still amazed after all this time they haven't realized they could just produce a tutorial app, they have master duel they can take that and turn it into a interactive even scripted tutorial that could be made more engaging with voice acting and animations. With the 25th anniversary having a focus on archetypes over anime why not have us learning Fusion with Albaz and characters from that lore even HERO cards give the archetypes a voice for kids to get attached to while teaching them. you can even tie it into new products like buy a new structure or starter use the QR code with the app and get a tutorial or scripted duel that teaches the lines.

33:52 The only way to fix that issue is for the power level and available card types to be reset to where Edison format is and have it be made Yugioh's flagship format for tournament play. I'm not saying all Yugioh should be Edison, I'm saying create new sets with new cards and only Fusion and Synchros in the Extra deck at the complexity level of Yugioh in the time of Edison. Then include some additional rules to fix some of the inherent issues of Yugioh which led to insane power levels. As an example, in Yugioh it's impossible to have monsters which are part of long-term effect engines because you need to destroy your opponent's monsters to advance your game. This means it's impossible to stick a tiny monster that can have a repeatable advantage generating effect in Yugioh and this resulted in omni-negate boss monsters since having omni-negates was the only way to keep your stuff around for several turns. The solution is to change the rules so that you can attack directly if your opponent has ATK position monsters and only DEF position monsters completely stop someone from attacking directly. It gives defense position a better function in the game. Another example is building strategies around the attributes instead of archetypes. Include Speed Duel type skill cards with different combinations of attributes on them and the players are locked into the attributes of the skill they choose. It's the colour system but not tied to the resource system since Yugioh doesn't have one. Another version of this is to create dedicated boss monster sub-type which have multiple attributes and you choose one to be your deck master, locking the attributes to it's own. People love Yugioh and formats like Goat and Edison exist because people want the experience of a simpler game which Yugioh was.

They should've followed Pokémon and Magic with a rotation of legal sets being allowed. It would've made things more accessible for new players, and keep the craziness of the meta in line.

Magic, the gathering did this back in the 90s. It came with a CD for the PC that had the pre built deck a came with, and it showed you how to play. It was a done very well.