Yugioh Player Tries To Guess How Good MTG Cards Are w/  

Every blue player lives for the “hit them with the ‘no’ maneuver” 😅

Pack rat is such a legitimate threat in any cube/draft format, and is even a bit of a menace in constructed formats

I agree!

Yeah, I have seen a few Yugioh players like that for these kinds of videos, and the same for Mtg players analyzing Yugioh cards. I think the skills you learn for both transfer over pretty well because although different games in multiple ways, they share a lot of the same kind of mindset and fundamentals. I think the biggest difference between mtg and Yugioh is Mtg has mana costs and in Mtg you can't directly attack a creature while in Yugioh you can't attack the player with a monster in play. That and how the stack in Mtg works compared to how the chain works in Yugioh.

Yu-Gi-Oh is basically an abridged version of magic the gathering

@@haruhisuzumiya6650 maybe in the absolute loosest sense sure but I would never make that assertion. Like they’re both card games that have very fundamental things in common but past that they actually function quite differently as far as tcgs go. I just think the knowledge required to be successful at both games allows you to ask yourself the right questions to figure it out at a basic level. I don’t think it’s the mechanics themselves that transfer, it’s the method a good player utilizes to become good. It might sound like splitting hairs but I genuinely think there’s a huge difference between possessing the skills that a good player possesses and having the overarching ability quickly identify what that skill set could or should look like.

​@@SDREHXC But yugioh literally is a simpler rip-off of MTG xD Takahashi invented it for his manga, it was never planned to be a real game.

also yugi-oh has a limit of 5 creatures so the rats couldn't get that big

@@devforfun5618 If it were to be turned into a Yugioh card it would probably be something more like, it gets 500 attack for each Rat.

@@TheJadeFist Maby even 1000, to adjust for the max number of creatures and the limit on summons each round. First round you get 1 1000/1000, second 2 2000/2000 and third 3 3000/3000. Still not so impressive with decks that are able to pull out anything by that time.

I think it's a combination of two things. One is, indeed, as you said, that yugioh games tend to last way fewer turns than MTG games. But another thing is that IgnisKidd started from the assumption that Pack Rat is meant to be a swarm deck/aggro deck card, rather than what it ended up being used for (a control deck card. I mean arguably MBC was on the midrangish side of control decks but it was still essentially a deck that tried to survive to lategame moreso than trying to keep up in value at every point in the curve). And, indeed, back when Pack Rat was in standard, aggro decks that had black in them *did* exist, and did *not* run Pack Rat.

tbh, pack rat is not good. Nobody cares, it's gonna be removed easily, it doesn't have trample or any other abilities. People are playing crazy combos and avalanches of spells, and you come up with a pack rat.... bruh nah it's not doing it xD

That is straight up hilarious

If it were Extended or further, I'd have used Rites of Initiation instead.

Well if there are cards that say if this card is sent to the grave yard summon it instead it could flood your fiels.. sorry idk magic lol

@@doubleduece2012 Yeah there are a few cards like that and there are a lot stronger ways to discard. Like there's a lot of very cheap cards that are not terrible on their own and also let you discard to get some upside, this just happened to be an extremely low power standard format without other good options to discard your own cards.

If it's just to counter the Ebony Owl Netsuke, i would just side in Ivory Crane Netsuke at that point to counter the damage while the opponent possibly shoots themselves with their own owl.

Same!

As a yugioh player with no magic exposure myself this is very interesting

It is always the most ludicrous viewpoints, and don't get me wrong, I got into Magic From Yu-Gi-Oh! But I never had to view cards in the void, like this, and as someone who went into magic for the absolute degenerate combos, these days I look at Yu-Gi-Oh! and go if MTG cards were this broken... but when I came to MTG I viewed it without bias, learning the rules, and then bam. $10K later I stopped playing, so that I can save up money for a deposit on a house...

I got into mtg not to long ago...... It's just like yugioh but probably worse.... No hand Traps to save me but I am playing a budget Bernard build 😭😭😭😭😭😭

Same here. And I enjoy seeing mtg players look at Yugioh cards. Having played both for many years, it's fun seeing them use the terms from the game they play when analyzing cards for the other game and seeing how similar the minds work when analyzing cards. Some things are true I think for any card game, like the obvious one that cheating things into play is very good. Drawing more cards is very good.

But he HAS seen One with Nothing, which is a start 🤣

Isn't there rulings on unfinity cards minus the latest set

Next Time: Silver Border sets!

LOL

mtg players are the only ones that have trouble comprehending other card games for some reason

def not true lmao

Magic didnt invent shit, the playerbase invents the lingo. Thats why its called EDH and not commander.

@ich3730 First of all, only boomers call it EDH, second of all, typical magic player arguing pedantics. Obviously it was implied I meant that the community calls it something based on the context of the clip.

@@armitroner I think you mean semantics my guy. Also I'm a Magic boomer and I say Commander and EDH interchangeably mainly with Commander since that's what most people call it now. People adapt, and the players who purposefully say EDH are likely calling that as an f you at Wizards.

What was the win percentage with a deck using Pack Rat and 39 Swamps that just mulligans until it finds Pack Rat? Like 50% or some shit?

@@nekrataali I don't know, but I've done it once and I did 3-0. Straight up absurdity.

Those were the days

I've seen it in the sideboard of One Land Spy as a swap out just to basically steal game 2

Thanks

⁠​⁠​⁠@@Igniskiddyou definitely have the potential to be a very good mtg player cause I haven’t seen someone analyze cards as obscure as pack rat and figure out how good it is in quite some time

That would be super sick!

Wait, that isnt a thing already?!

@@Igniskidd nope!

The whole point of the color wheel is that its very flexible. There is only so many ways to design a "proud" card or a "curious" card. There is however endless ways to interpret the color white, or blue.

Yeah Jame should have mentioned Recross the Paths when the guys asked if you can change the top cards of your library.

Yeah recross the paths is like the green doomsday, but far more deckbuilding requirements. Remember some guys tinkering with recross in legacy back during the early 2010's, but they never got it anywhere really beyond maybe a wish target in legacy belcher where legacy belcher just ran the one land in taiga that they could find with land grant to nug people for 50+ on turn 1 or even if they couldn't remove it odds are you would flip 10+ cards before the taiga with the taiga doubling damage due to being a mountain forest.

only real problem with that is needing to consistently get to the card early on enough, as well as having a plan for protection/recovery in case something goes wrong earlier on in the game.

there are a few legendary creatures that you can reasonably do this with in EDH xD

What about lost in the woods?😊

Pack Rat is up there, but I think Umezawa's Jitte is stronger. A turn one Sol Ring is basically unbeatable in Limited unless the other player has multiple Moxen or Black Lotus (that still might not be enough). And the bullshit mono-black deck in Urza's Saga with Pestilence was nuts. It was bad enough that black had Dark Ritual, Exhume, Priest of Gix, etc. but then to have Pestilence at common meant you got multiple Wraths.

and one of the few things we got going for us internationally xD

I’ve asked him and he hasn’t answered yet!

He did this exact same video with the card market people, I think he's also affiliated with them in some way, so I doubt he'd come to do the exact same video concept with another creator when he'll most likely do it again with card market the next time he's in germany.

I second this. He said he loves doing these.

Yup 🤣

all it would take is for good cards with hellbent to be printed.

​@@windhelmguard5295 the problem with the idea that good hellbent cards would finally break one with nothing is that it ignores the existence of discard engines that _actually do something on their own,_ meaning that if you made a pile of cards with hellbent payoffs strong enough that you could genuinely just throw your entire hand away and still be competitive against other decks ... you could also, y'know, play those cards while spitting out a bunch of tokens. or bombarding your opponent with burn damage. or, y'know, do _anything_ with those cards you're discarding hell, hellbent is a black and _red_ mechanic! why discard your hand when you can just throw it all on the field to terrorize your opponent and, oh look, now your hand's empty and your board is even more brutal! wow, funny how that works out, eh? anything you can do to make one with nothing playable is just gonna make a deck that functions _waaaay_ better without it. the best you can really hope for is players with more, ahem, _expressive_ deck building styles slotting it in as a funny panic button card, where they use it to counter an opponent's attempt to get rid of a core combo piece that would just so happen to survive if hellbent was active. y'know. before the hellbent player turned on hellbent. while they have black mana floating. and no better cards to dump their hand. and the hellbent player is already positioned to win the game. and their opponent doesn't get ( or already have ) another answer before the winning position becomes a win really, the best thing one with nothing brings to the table is that winning with it is _automatically_ one for the history books

this almost exists. there used to be a strat where you used howling mines to force both players to draw lots of cards, and use idols to deal damage to opponent if they had too many cards in hand. you could use one with nothing to counter this specific strategy.. a bit.

It could work in a Barren Glory deck.. which isnt a good win condition but kinda funny. so if you play a land destruction card followed by one with nothing (which you can play in response to your own land destruction so you can still tap the lands).. you may win on your next upkeep..

One With Nothing suffers from there being better discard outlets for one or less mana when it was printed. Formats with viable graveyard strategies have always had Lion's Eye Diamond, Firestorm, Putrid Imp, etc. that make OWN redundant. I think if you made a Standard set with Dredge and made OWN the only discard outlet in the set, then yeah, it'd probably be good. But Dredge is like an 11 on the Storm Scale, up there with banding, regeneration, and artifact lands.

yugioh is probably the only card game that put an once per turn restriction on a card that says "discard your entire hand"

@@RaineBans i wish "discard your hand" was easily available in yugioh. but that is entirely because i play skull servants.

@@RaineBans Maybe so, but Lion's Eye Diamond is turbo-banned, so that has to count for something.

You love to see it

Yeah it was even a combo deck in the old format extended when it first released in OG mirrodin with mana severance to exile all your lands and that extended was a powerful format because it still had blocks like tempest and urza's saga. Mana severance + belcher is a 2 card combo that wouldn't be any good now, but back then it was so damn good.

Yea that would be a head scratcher for sure

​@TheOneJameYT yeah, this is the hardest thing about going towards magic rather than say magic doing yugi cards is the formats Like you basically have to ignore limited for instance

@@michaeltillotson3711 yeah it’s definitely wild to try to do it this way lol

Yeah, specifying format helps. For those unaware of Magic, the most common formats to come up in discussions like this are: Standard, which is using only what's new. Power level fluctuates based on what's in rotation. Commander, which is using almost anything, but is casual so you won't see the ultra high power stuff. It has double life, larger and less consistent decks, and is usually four player, so games are much slower. And Vintage, which allows everything, and games very rarely go past 2 turns. There's other formats (Legacy, Modern, Draft, Cube, Arch Enemy, planechase, 2 headed giant, alchemy and more), but those are the 3 most relevant in these kinds of videos.

You’re doing so good!!

@@laytonjr6601 since all your “lands” are double sided spells, you technically aren’t playing any lands.

To understand the power of omniscience, imagine a continuous spell card with some slight conditions to activate that let's you ignore any summoning conditions on your monsters as well as infinite special summons in a deck that can have cards with the words "draw seven cards" or "you have no limited hand size" in them and multiple variants of ash blossom.

In the end, good is subjective, so it does allow for a little grey area unfortunately

@@TheOneJameYT For sure. I just think that using standard cards sort of expand a bit too much on the gray area a lot of the time, but that's just my opinion.

Makes perfect sense, I should’ve noticed that. Thanks!

@@TheOneJameYT no problem! Love your videos man!

Tell that to Dark World

@@michaelcinelli4120 Dark World still goes minus off of it 😅

Charbelcher got a bit of new notoriety when Arena ran a no ban phantom event, as it was one of the 2 techs for a turn 1 channel combo available with arena coded cards.

You can really sum up what makes Pack Rat great as: every card in your deck is now, *at worst*, a 3-mana pack rat

Thanks!! I’ve been trying really hard to get more Yugioh players!

Would me saying "1.5 card engine" make you happier lol

I’ve done it with Jesse Kotton awhile back too!

Yep it’s a blast 🤣

I’ve asked him to be on the show and he told me that he knows too much magic lol

EXACTLY

We just need a blue deflecting palm style effect that let's you rewrite an effect of a spell you're oppone is trying to cast and changing to one of a card in your own hand.

🤣

AYO RARE JJ SPOTTED

YGO players have a cultural fear of handrips, we've gone through multiple formats in our game's life where handrip was insane, omnipresent, and since its YGO, almost unrestricted in resources, and launch year had like, three different insane handrip cards(Confiscation, Forceful Sentry, Delinquent Duo) and people started trying to build hand control decks using monsters that delivered more rips

Another strength of the card is that it prevents you from flooding. Just in case that term is when you draw too many lands. Pack Rat can discard those extra lands to generate rats.

It was meant to be!

@@TheOneJameYT That third one is stupid broken by the way! What set is that from? I haven't followed Mtg in the past few years.

Yes, if you listen to the end of the video you’ll see how!

Omniscience is often cheated into play with cheaper effects.

Omniscience is absolutely worth 10 mana, however it is rarely cast for that. It is usually cheated into play with something like the card "Show and Tell"

🤣

Your sleeves can’t be see through

There are also Proxi-cards that are normal onesided Magiccards, provided by Wizards of the Coast that can be used as a replacement in your deck but must be replaced by the actual card while it`s in play

You can use the ability on your opponent’s turn, but your mana only untaps before you draw for turn

So what you can do is at the end of your opponents turn activate Pack Rat to have another Pack Rat without summoning sickness during your turn as summoning sickness goes away at the beginning of your own turn.

That is the best thing I’ve ever heard

thats kinda like all these dogshit fusion monsters from early yugioh having a significant number of tournament tops because people used to fill the extra/fusion deck with funny garbage

@@ich3730 Not really, the deck against which it was sideboarded used howling mine too flood your hand quicker than you could empty it and the owl to burn you for your hand size. One with nothing was actually cast in that matchup to avoid the owl burn, and by reports of the players using it the first time you used one with nothing would greatly increase your win percentage against the deck and the second cast basically assired victory.

@@younasdar5572 so i checked the winning lists of 2006 pro tour honolulu and didnt see anyone play one with nothing?

They all were 😈

i'd vote for Belcher!

It’s an artifact!

only creatures suffer from summoning sickness. For example Mishras Factory, both tap abilities can be used the turn it comes into play, if you where to animate it via it`s ability, it would suffer from summoning sickness as it is a creature in that moment.

Yea I really like that idea

@@TheOneJameYT another option would be: was/is good in standard, is good in modern, is good in vintage

@@TheOneJameYT Some suggestions that might be fun to rank: -The original "boons" from ABU. -The "pitch spells" from Alliances. -The Legendary Lands from Urza's Saga -The alternate-win Enchantments from Odyssey block. -The Decrees from Scourge -Any version of the Leyline cycle. -The Pacts from Future Sight. -The Ultimatums from Shards Of Alara. -The Titans from Magic 2011. -The "Flipwalkers" from Magic Origins. -The Forces from Modern Horizons I. -The Coloured Legendary Artifacts from Throne Of Eldraine. -The Incarnations from Modern Horizons II (which would sort of overlap with this video, but whatever). -The Channel Legendary Lands from Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty (aka Magic's own "hand-traps"). It would also be fun to have ones where only one member is really good, like the Avatars from Prophecy, the two-Coloured Atogs from Odyssey ("One of these was the center of one of the most notoriously powerful decks in Standard, the rest suck"), the Epic Sorceries from Saviours Of Kamigawa ("This is often considered one of the worst mechanics in the history of the game, but one of them had an actual competitive deck built around it"). Especially the cases where you could say "Which of these has ever been banned in at least one format?" (The Oaths from Exodus, the Coloured Equipment from Fifth Dawn, the Shoals from Betrayers Of Kamigawa if you want to challenge yourself to explain a bunch of complicated combos, the Ascendants from Saviours Of Kamigawa, the "Spell Lands" from Zendikar, the Planeswalkers from Zendikar block, the Zeniths from Mirrodin Besieged, the Oaths from Oath Of The Gatewatch, the Deserts from Hour Of Devastation, the Common Lands from Throne Of Eldraine).

@@dasuberkaiser6 thanks for these ideas!!

@@TheOneJameYT Those are all five-card cycles, because I don't know if reviewing a ten-card cycle would be practical. If it would, I think the Mirran Swords and the Companions would be great. They both have a wide range of how powerful they are.

You learned!!