Can we take a moment to appreciate the moderator? He kept quiet until they were done exchanging ideas. This is rare nowadays. I was so happy to see that
Yes, definitely. I’ve watched so many highly intelligent speakers being constantly interrupted by off point questions from moderators trying to shoehorn themselves into the conversations. It’s always so maddening. You are correct- this moderator was great.
The moderator and Harari and Pinker were all respectful of what the other had to say. And they actually listen. Maybe that’s a contributing factor of how they became so knowledgeable.
@pitu toup Pinker is a psychologist. His real contribution lies in that area. Specially in some of the discussions on the nature of the mind. Economics is not his field at all. Any ideas is just a popularisation of other people's ideas. And libertarian economics was up and running long before he was even born.
How nice. Two people, sitting down with each other, giving and taking, agreeing and disagreeing, and having a rational conversation. Why am I commenting on something that should be so, well, ordinary?
I consider both Steven Pinker and Yuval Harari two of the most wise and intelligent beings around that have massively influenced my thinking in recent years.
No one is on Yuval's level. And Pinker seems to want to be a fancy pants and contradict notions that are plain as day real and affecting our lives. To think the last election wasn't affected by the MASSIVE AMOUNT OF INTERNET PROPAGANDA is absurd. I mean just look at Facebook for 5 minutes for corroboration lol. Or Fox News. That's a BIG one. Just plain as day out there affecting the group think hive mind. I swear the level of racism and 'us vs them' mentalities shocked me for a while there. IT GOT BAD QUICK. Then i learned about the Cambridge Analytica scandal. Sorry but Pinker needs to open his eyes and stop letting his ego do his thinking. He REALLY disappointed me in this. Telling people the threat of disruptive technologies isn't real or a big deal. Who does this guy think he is and what world is he living in
When two such great minds find it difficult to agree. It just shows how complicated a problem it is to predict human behavior and technological development. But it's very important to have keep having these conversations
Thought there was more agreement overall, than not. However, democracy does not truly exist in the UK, if it did, via PR, there would now be a hung parliament, instead of close to a dictatorship, albeit with some restrictions on its use of power?
Yes it is, the conversation was indeed intresting but take a look to this and have a different opinion maybe ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vvMxrM6SHN0.html
A joy to listen to and when I asked myself why I enjoyed it so much, I realised that it was because it was such a civilized conversation. Here are two important thinkers discussing the differences in their assessment of our predicament. They each have reputations to maintain and books to sell, but their motivation clearly goes beyond that. We desperately need more conversations of this calibre. Thank you both for setting such a good example and thank you to Dr. Maksym Yakovlyev for hosting it.
To the Moderator - Maksym, thank you! Thank you! Thank you, and well done for your polite, reserved silence. The temptation to join in must have been HUGE!
This was a really enjoyable conversation to listen to. I’ve been a big fan of Pinker for a long time, and of Harai more recently. It’s so nice to see someone such as Harai who can engage Pinker in a deep, thoughtful discussion.
Sometimes during this talk and other talks one can realy notice that Yuval has been brought up in Israel. Time and again he emphasizes what governments and multinationals are capable of doing and that we must certainly never underestimate that. And the fact that one really needs to stay focused. An attitude that he probably got when you grew up in a country that is at the top of the list in the field of surveillance technology and their open air test station, the occupied territories.
Great point. On the other hand Pinker is from much less oppressive Canada. This is probably one of the reasons why Pinker seems to be much more optimistic about the future and not as afraid of potential risks.
8:30 "Let us now change the topic to the intellectual climate of the west..." 37:18 "If we could now shift the topic to the intellectual climate of the west..." Award for most patient moderator goes to...
@@MaksymYakovlyev I might have tried to be more assertive but it's difficult having large egos in the room. I think these guys have certain ideas they're determined to push in every discussion. Jordan Peterson always bothered me that way, too. Anyway, thank YOU. I got a lot out of the interview.
I love the back and forward between these two. Harari being the pessimist and Pinker countering with why any specific thing probably isn't as bad as the former claims or portrays. I really liked the discussion/conversation.
Both personalities are well known in their respective realms in particular and to the world in general. But something that fascinated me was their humility and attentiveness to each other. Nowhere they even attempted to surpass each other. Pinker despite being a person of more experience, exposure and deep understanding of cognitive psychology, did not interrupt or underrate Harari's comments regarding the impact of AI on psychology and how could the former besiege the latter in future. Discord was so mild and pleasant that one does not even notice it. Huge respect for both Intellectuals.
Summary to all creators: "Think about what your invention will be in the hand of the politician you most fear, and then think about what you're inventing and creating. The general tendency of engineers and entrepreneurs is to think about the best-case scenarios. " Be more careful, as You are deciding what we as human species will have for future.
I now truly understand the phrase, "to be a fly on the wall". It is such a privilege to be able to listen to these two critical-thinkers of our era sharing their thoughts and ideas.
Two great minds, and a nice moderator. I've read "Sapiens" recently, now finishing the "Enlightenment" (it's big, but the last 150 pages are commentaries and book references, lol). Compared to Harari's books, Pinker has statistics for literally every piece of information, whereas Yuval is more of a visionary to me. Wonderful to see them both in conversation together. Thank you.
Well, I'm very grateful to have this talk for free on my YT. However, it is much easier to absorb a knowledge of Yuwal Harari and Steven Pinker from theirs books. Here, it was sometimes chaotic and some similar topics twice. In books, everything is more clear. Anyway, thank you Yuval Noah Harari for publishing so valuable content. Maybe you can visit Poland one day? I can help with collecting a huge audience:)
Great to watch. From other interviews with Harari I feel westerners need to open more to other ways of thinking about world problems. Harari raises question that no one has before. Thank you for uploading this.
I believe we will eventually have something similar to the social scoring in China - but independent from monetary interests and also not connected to a government agenda ....... I am missing any idea from Yuval how to work on these issues - instead he repeats and repeats and repeats his (great !) analysis.....(www.trustos.org would be my approach)
What I always appreciate about Yuval is his ability to recognize the different blind spots that most of us are unaware of while approaching a given problem or argument.
An incredible discussion. Truly informative. And look, much credit to the moderator for not interfering with the intellectual exchange. He did his job wonderfully.
It ia an honor for me to watch the conversation of 2 great thinkers of our age. They are genius thank you for RU-vid and Yuval Noah Harari and Steven pinker
Great to hear the insight and different perspective of two secular humanist Internet stars from two different disciplines, age/experience, temperament and political leanings.
Elon Musk?! Are you serious. He isn't even close to their league in terms of mind-power. He's very good at marketing, self-promotion, flashy events and making people think that he came up with ideas that have been around for decades (hyperloop, reusable rockets, Tesla existed before him, etc). Have you ever read any of Pinker's books? Now try to imagine Musk doing the same...
@@TheFuzzician I honestly think it would be a little hard for Joe to keep up with someone like Yuval Harari. Hopefully, it wouldn't be something like the Nick Bostrom podcast
Very glad to see Steven Pinker and Yuval Harari in Ukraine. I believe, that Ukraine truly can be that country where such great people can meet and work
First point of Steven Pinker: I wrote a book 😁 Besides that, such a honor to be allowed to listen to this conversation - thank you 😊 It seems Pinker doesn't think he can be manipulated, since he is an expert, that seems interesting in my view..
Why? You want to see Yang humiliated? Just because he calls for UBI and Yuval has a similar-sounding word Universal Basic Services does not mean Yang is at a level where he can hold a conversation with the likes of Yuval. See this Yuval talk to see what he really means by Universal Basic Service, Yang cannot even comprehend that: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-t5Y2CwCsnbA.html&vl=en
@@tirthajyoti the likes of Harrari? lol. His philosophy in Sapiens was embarrassingly simplistic. He is a classic materialist reductionist and his worldview is tyrannical. His association with a super villain like Klaus Schwab and the WEF only goes to prove this even more. And btw Yang got Bernied by the DNC in a classic block-the-potential-opponents-to-the-incumbent move. So so dirty
I have read 2 Hariri, s books and one Pinker, both are great, but we can they see reality in a different way, I agree on Hariri view. Anyways two. Great minds that help me understand this world, thank you for sharing.
Last words from harrari.. about scientists and scholars to think about how their work is going to have an impact over political and economical landscapes and to consider about the worst case scenario.. is a huge take over from the conversation.. 😊
Pinker looks angelic in some of these shots because of the light. Great discussion and moderation. I had never heard of Mr. Harari before, and now I have!
The two of the greatest thinkers of our time showed us how to disagree rationally with all due respect. And I can see the humble gestures they showed when they admit their agreement on a specific detail while disagreeing or rethink their own suspicions after listening to their counterparts.
You could ask almost anything to Yuval and Pinker. Name any thinker of any time. They probably have some of the most elegant narrative answers, with capacities to recreate multiple versions of the same data, puling it from their analogic hardwares. So, what's next in terms of humanity achieving wisdom behaviors beyond data?
and how empty it would be, because you aren't allowed to hear the other side, Edward Dutton did a recent critique of Pinker, reveals quite a few holes, but that is to be expected, the man no longer follows through on his own thoughts made in that blank slate book, and now just defends ideology of pseudo scientific religion.
Mr. Harari, I want to thank you I found your chanel. I just finished readind your book Sapiens, what I do recommend to everyone..... many thanks from Brasil.
I don't think Stephen Pinker understands the implications of automated information processing the way Harari does: He points out how complex the brain is and how difficult it would be to manipulate individual decisions. Sure, but the law of large numbers still apply. Swaying the minds of 1-2% of the population towards a certain argument would be huge. Consider that most people "understand" that a Ferrari is more prestigious than a Porche, which is more prestigious than a BMW, which is more prestigious than a Toyota... Those relationships have been established over decades by good old fashioned marketing, imagine a system that could "implant" that kind of "knowledge" within millions of people over months. Pinker also mentions how hard genetics are and how complex the the relaitonship between genes for any given fenotype is. Well, consider AI with access to masses of genetics-data that could be cross referenced with medical journals and similar documents... Perhaps genetics will advance faster than he thinks!
Yes, I agree. I was honestly surprised by his optimism for 'democratic societies' not tolerating 'a camera in every room' There already are cameras in every room and Edward Snowden has proven the the US has been spying on citizens for years... Our cell phone create enough of a map to generally track most individual's movements and practices. Tolerance for this has been recharacterized. Tolerance is a non issue. A vampire cannot cross your threshold unless you invite him in. (edited for spelling)
Genetics have been shown to be massively overvalued/not important: the human genome project has turned out to show us nothing. The materialists' models are falling apart.
Watching Harari and Pinker - both insightful thinkers - side by side only emphasizes what an intellectual giant Harari is. Pinker says bioengineering crops is frowned upon, so maybe bioengineering humans won't be pursued. Harari argues the competitive "arms race" by governments and corporations is enough to create insatiable demand for the technology. Pinker says gene editing is complex and doubts the capabilities of AI. Harari points out the timeframe is on the order of decades or centuries, not stock market cycles (my paraphrasing). Pinker reminds me of Hegel in the way he understands competing dialectical forces constantly reshape society... but he also thinks we're near the end of those cycles. He can't imagine how the world could be fundamentally different tomorrow because he's wrapped up in the limitations of today. Maybe Steve should join Yuval on his next silent retreat to let go of his biases. They're clouding his judgment. ;)
Actually I dont know if somebody already pointed it out but the moderator is quite good. Good questions, doesnt interrupt, let the conversation flow...
Fantastic talk! Pinker shows to be thinking through the lense of an American, making the US the norm and center of the world, which is not. I feels that´s limiting the conversation. However, Yuval puts things in perspective and it´s refreshing.
Good quality entertainment, nice to see that people hear to each other and came with arguments to illuminate each other ideas in a different light. but 260 000 views in youtube is too little for these two. I agree, great moderator !
This could have gone on for another 24 hours. My favourite thinkers. I’m always amazed though, at Pinkers ability to always place himself as the voice of absolute reason. The adult in the room.
I came across this quote recently from Isaac Singer, “we have to believe in free will: we have no choice”. It is not an original thought, as can be seen in this discussion, but it is a very witty way of expressing it.
Amazing conversation. Although I had the feeling that several answers by Pinker were basically evading Hararis arguments - which led to him having to repeat himself. Like this one argument by Pinker, "we always had to decide between ethics and effectivity and chose the former, which is why judges don't (officialy) judge based on the race or gender of the defendant" had already been countered by Harari: It just never was effective enough. If it were, and a country were to employ a highly effective algorithm as a judge leading to falling crime rates, how would (and will) other countries probably respond? Will we adopt our ethical system accordingly? Also I love how at one point Pinker just gave in like "yeah i guess we should depend more on algorithms". Honestly wonder what Harari was thinking in this moment xD
When you realize that not even the smartest people can answer the specific questions that somebody else has asked them, instead they try to talk first without listening. The fundamental concept of human interaction should be: "Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
As usual Yuval nailed it. He is a visionary genius. What is happening in China and Europe is the eradication of the notion of "public space" through technological and political manipulations. The notion of "free will" is central to humanity and its creative powers.
I think Harari has a point but severely underestimates humans and severely overestimates what AI can currecntly do and into the forseeable future. That's not exactly nailing it. Overall, I think that Pinker is probably closer to reality as it stands right now. That's not to say that China isn't a problem or that there aren't things that we can do with the technology now, but when it comes to tech you have to keep in mind that its far easier to let your imagination run away with you than it is to be realistic. Harari is a historian, not a machine learning engineer. Always keep that in mind.
@@samschimek900 As long as we had a "public place" we had a "private space". The eradication of "public space" led to the invasion of the "private space" as both got blurred.
@@larsgrosse644 Free will might be a dead concept, but freedom is not. Experience one of those authoritarian countries where everything is under the control of a corrupt elite, experience censorship for the first time and the fear of being a target -- Getting away physically and mentally from such a society makes you more aware of the abstract notion we call "freedom." It is a meaningful concept we have to defend at all costs.
Pinker's go-to response to this is "which data?" So if you know of any specifically, you can email him and he'll respond. Emphasis on specificity: You can't just say "this feels wrong, you're probably mistaken somehow." That wont fly.
Fantastic conversation! Just beautiful! Could one, or both, of you please have a sit down conversation with Andrew Yang??? The internet will forever love you 🧢
love those two talking.♡ and in the ukraine, of all places. but i believe the interviewer's name is maksym yakovlyev. for those of you who want to look him up on the internet. which is what i'll do next.
extraordinarily profound dialogue and discourse 🙏🏻 Harari’s unparalleled insight and clarity are so so so so so so ahead of our (homosapien) time on Planet Earth 🌍, is he 👽?
