Zoom F6 v H8 - Can there only be one winner? Is the H8 actually a field recorder at all? Shure SM7B 

Thanks for leaving a comment - hope your choice of Zoom really works for you! Ta like, ppm6.

why did you use shotguns for stereo?

Thanks SoL glad your F6 is providing such good service - if you excuse the firework pun - you get a lot of bang for your buck. Ta like, ppm6.

@@ppmtv-qh9qk very punny 😂

Ta like, ppm6.

Thanks Nik, ppm6.

Hi Pat - the truth about sound recording (like photography) is that getting the best out of your gear is more important than getting the best gear! I'm a big fan of the Sennheiser 416 but my pal Terry who is a man who knows prefers the cheaper Sennheiser mics (the older 66 series) because they have a presence bump that means when you put them in a windshield with a full furry you still get some top end. Just goes to show. Keep enjoying your gear but most importantly keep using your gear! Ta like, ppm6.

@@ppmtv-qh9qk Very well said. Couldn't agree more 👍

Hi D.J. The F6 has 75dB of gain on the mic pres - enough even for an SM7B - The F3 (which I don't have) might also be a contender. It's 32 bit float and tiny. zoomcorp.com/en/us/field-recorders/field-recorders/f3/ But you don't have control over the input gain so I'd really like to try it before recommending it. Thanks for dropping by. Ta like, ppm6.

Спасибо, что вы весело проводите время с H8 - как всегда с Zoom вы получаете много за свои деньги. Спасибо ppm6.

Hi, sorry to hear of your H1N troubles. I would recommend one of the Zoom F series recorders if the budget can stretch. So a second hand F4, an F6 or maybe even the F3. All have better noise performance than the H8. The F4 and F6 both have a whopping 75dB of gain - great for those very, very quiet animals! And both have decent noise figures. The F3 is the cheapest. I have to say I haven't tried one but it has the 32 bit float dual converter recording technology which means they don't offer a gain control, relying instead on the enormous dynamic range of the digital recording system. If you are interested in the F3 I would do some home work to see how it will work with rest of your gear. What mics do you have? Ta like, ppm6.

Hi - thanks for a very interesting question. It set me looking at mic sensitivities. The at897 is 10mV per pascal about the same as my AKG Bluelines. I was surprised because my AT gun mic - the 4073a is 70mv per pascal. ie Very loud indeed, I'm always having to turn it down! When I get a moment I'll measure how much gain my AKG needs and get back to you with a figure. Hopefully that will help with interface choice. Ta like, ppm6.

@@ppmtv-qh9qk thank you 🙏🏼

Hi - with the RME Micstasy set to 57dB speaking 'normally' at 20cm I get peaks of about -7dB in Wavelab. How does that compare with your Scarlett? And as you would expect 63dB takes me up to just kissing overload. The F6 has 75dB of gain and the H8 - well according to the official manual quoted below it has 55dB Input gain −30 - 55.5 dB (−20 dB with PAD) I would have said it had more gain than that but I hesitate to argue with Zoom's official figures. And I had to give it back to Martyn so I can't do further tests! So be careful is my message, can you try one before buying? Of the two recorders the H8 is more flexible but the F6 is more professional and you will never have a situation where you haven't got enough gain with an F6. I'm intrigued your signature seems to be in Russian (sorry I am no expert on alphabets)- but your channel is in Hebrew? Ta like, ppm6.

@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you for your replies, my gain on Scarlett is set around 75% and I'm getting from -10 to -12 dB when I'm speaking normally at the same distance as you (20 cm) , and when I'm listening to my recordings it sounds reasonably quiet, then I'm trying to increase the gain on Scarlett to 80 or 90 percent, it doesn't peak much, but I'm starting to hear a self-noise of the mic, also I'm recording through obs, not using any DAW like pro tools or ableton that are included with focusrite,because I haven't learned it yet, maybe that explains why it is so quiet. I agree with you about h8 that it gives a good amount of gain, like I'm pretty sure it's a lot more than 55dB, because I've seen a video on youtube about the h8 where the man uses h8 with Shure sm7b and Electro Voice re20 without any gain boosters like cloudlifter, the sound that he gets is really clean and loud, and the gain is set around 50% or even less, I remember in the video he is saying that he needs to lower the gain because it is already loud enough, and this is really impressive. This particular channel is in Russian, I'm teaching Hebrew to Russian speakers, but I have the second channel where I'm teaching Hebrew to English speakers, I have only two video lessons on that channel but I'm planning to upload more in the near future, if you you're interested in trying to learn Hebrew, I have my links on this channel, or you can search "Simple Hebrew" on RU-vid:) Thank you Jared

Hi Jared - I wrote a reply to this post and somehow YT lost it! I'm afraid my old brain is not up to Hebrew - though I would love to be able to read the Hebrew Scriptures in the original. I did try learning the very basics a few years ago but my memory is jut not up to it. How are you getting on with the Scarlett - did you decide to change it? Ta like, ppm6.

Thanks Nathaniel. I agree the F series have better preamps and a 416 is just the thing to plug in there. Zoom have just released the F8n Pro with 32 bit. Pushes the price over a grand though. Thanks for the comment. Ta like, ppm6.

I can try! I've been trying to get the MixPre stuff for ages. It's a long story but I promise to try again. The RME is trickier - I don't know why but it is. I suspect both are great bits of kit though! For years I had a kit with a 442 mixer and 744 recorder. And my RME Micstasy is the dog's. Ta like, ppm6.

Thanks Michael - the H8 is indeed Handy - literally in Zoom's nomenclature and you get loads for your money. But the F6 is a different beast altogether. I would love to try a Mix Pre - they have better numbers than Zoom on the 32 bit recording - on the other hand I hear battery life is in an issue. Not so for the frugal F6. Thanks for the input. Ta like, ppm6.

Thanks Goran, the preamps in the H8 are probably not as good in terms of absolute gain but will you hear the difference? I think not, I doubt your mics need as much gain. But lets start there - what mics do you have to plug in? I take it you are operating camera and sound - so you don't care about putting the H8 in a bag? And you're not using timecode. The F6 is more robust than the H8 no doubt but if you are careful there shouldn't be a problem. How many cameras do you plan to use? You might need timecode yet... Ta like, ppm6.

@@ppmtv-qh9qk Hey tnx for reply. Timecode is not something that is mandatory for me, i have workaround for that. My plan is to use Rode NTG5 in start and some lav mics that are 3.5mm but i will use XLR to 3.5 mic convertor if i use F6. NTG5 is not gain hungry, its actualy oposite of that. I would upgrade my mics in future, but my main goal is to have clear noise free sound, and from what i see F6 and H8 are not that much different and yet they have different preamps from what i read on the web... Also for my projects i would probably be boom operator but mounting H8 or F6 is not a problem for me. Main thing is audio quality and just not that sure that price difference is easly justified with these two..

​@@GoranMPG if you don't need on board mics it is very easy choice between H8 and F6. F6 preamps much better and 32 bit recording.

@@MrZzogg "much better" is not something i noticed by listening and googling, at least not to justify 200$ diferenciranja. From what i saw regarding preamps, they are sounding almost the same, but i would like someone to point me wrong

​@@GoranMPG ​ Every preamp have their own noise floor. H8 have -123.5 (i expected-120 as in older H series) dBu A-weight vs F6 -127 dBu A-weight and this noise will always presence in your recordings. Less noise = better ability to record quieter sounds. Also 32 bit recording means that your audio will never clip, its very usefull if you plan booming. H8 isn't bad recorder, but in your case i would prefer F6 and 200$ difference worth it.

Hi Justice, good question! The F6 has input and output limiter options. In 'linear' or 'dual' mode you get both. But in 32 bit float you only get an output limiter. We need to bear in mind the two elements of the record chain. The analogue and the digital. So you have 32 bit float enabled and you turn up your input gain to 'loud', so loud that the mic amp is overloaded into distortion by a peak in the signal. The 32 bit float digital section comes after the analogue input section and therefore cannot save your recording from distortion. So in order to get the benefit of the 32 bit float - set your analogue levels lower for safety reasons. There is another less likely scenario. If you compare the F6 to the SoundDevices MixPre recorders you'll see that the SD machines have greater digital dynamic range. This would come in handy if your microphone had a greater dynamic range than your F6 and you were recording an event that used enough of that dynamic range to overload the F6. From memory the F6 in 32 bit float has 135dB of dynamic range. So I wouldn't worry about it In an ideal system you would have analogue limiters available - really good ones like on the SQN (my pal describes these as 'You shall not pass!' limiters) to protect all your recordings (including 32 bit ones) from surprise events or recording in a rush without time to adjust input gain. Ta like, ppm6.

Me too, Riff Raff hits hard. Ta like, ppm6.

Good point Pat, mostly the advantages are in specialist areas. So the Sony battery can be used in a sled (Hawk Woods make them) to power 12v equipment using Hirose connectors or 4 pin XLR connectors. Most high end gear uses one of these connectors. But it may well be that the sheer scale of the USB battery pack industry means that USB becomes a viable alternative. Locking connectors is a thing though! Ta like, ppm6.

@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you for your reply, I do agree locked connections are far safer.

BTW Pat - enjoyed the Crosshaven film - are you a native Gaelic speaker or a dysgwyr (learner) as they say in Welsh? Sadly I have only about three words of Scots Gaelic but I worked in the highlands with a mixed Irish and local labour force and they had no problem conversing in Gaelic. I have little Welsh but all my children speak it and now my grandchildren. Ta like, ppm6.

@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you for the compliment re Doc. I was fluent up to about 25 years of age but not using it I lost a lot. Still have basic though. My older brother narrated. BTW I'm 68 and have several projects in planning. Gear for doc was Sony Pxw-x70, (4k) Sennheiser MKE 600, Rode Blimp. FCPX edit.

Thanks Pat and well done to your brother too. It's great that modern technology means we can make high quality films without breaking the bank and keep doing it as you are. Would you have cause to use Gaelic in every day life, in the local shop say? Ta like, ppm6.

Thanks Frank, You are dead right about USB power packs. Pro solutions tend to be part of systems (AudioRoot being a good example - but sit down before you check the prices! www.audioroot.fr/ ) but connectors are a big deal. Hirose or four pin xlrs which feature on most pro battery systems are lockable, very robust and won't snap. Unless you jump up and down on them. USB just doesn't have these features, nor is it designed to, to be fair. I've broken several usb inputs I've never broken a Hirose or a 4 pin XLR. Also your pro battery system will be able to provide taps to your radio mics etc. Now that doesn't invalidate your point, you'd be spending more on the batteries than you did on the recorder. And you are right about time code too. But it's the sort of thing that if you need it, you really, really need it and it's a deal breaker for a pro system. Thanks for thoughtful input! Ta like, ppm6.

@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thanks for educating me. It makes sense the professional charging connectors are more robust than prosumer connectors. Obviously I am new to audio recording. For my Zoom H8 I am using an Anker 26 mA power pack and it cost less than $30.00. It will power the H8 for days, even with phantom power mics. Yesterday I used the H8 several hours with headphones (probably over 8 hours straight) with it connected to the Anker battery pack. Over that entire time of heavy use, the battery pack went down just one bar. So you see what I mean about days of use. But you are absolutely right about the micro-USB connection that Zoom provides to power the H8 - they are poor power connectors. I have had problems with micro-USB connectors getting loose and going bad. The are a weak connector choice and its a shame that Zoom made such a dismal choice. A Type C USB connector would have been a far superior choice. Can you tell me if their is a mic that the industry prefers for acoustic guitar vocals? What do industry professionals use and recommend? Thanks

Hi Frank - thanks for the recommendation of the Anker battery - looks like a good choice. The Line Audio CM4 is a great mic - small diaphragm condenser (pencil mic) with a very flat frequency response. I got mine directly from their website, the mics are made in Sweden. Maybe more easy to get would be an sE8 about the same price ($130 odd depending on where you are). The sE offers interchangeable capsules (there's an omni as well as a cardioid) and the amplifier has a bass cut and a pad built in. With both of these I would invest in a good pop killer for vocals. I like the Hakan www.sound-link.co.uk/hakan/ but others are available. Have a look at this video as a good place to start. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-T5f2JFjSILE.html I have quite a few videos titles 'best cheap mic in the world' with some second hand options as well as the new stuff from sE and Line Audio.Ta like, ppm6.

@@ppmtv-qh9qk Thank you for your reply, I appreciate your expertise in these matters. I have been looking at several microphones in the$300 - $500 USD range. I need one mic for vocals and probably two for the guitar. In that price range are these better in sound capture and clarity? It is damn near impossible to figure out what mics are best without buying several of them and testing them in person. That is why I covet your opinion - you have already "been there and done that." Thanks.

Hi Frank, I totally agree more choice doesn't make things easier, just the opposite! For the guitar either the Line Audio CM4 or the sE8 will be fine. And as a bonus you get to try them on vocals and see if you like them and you have saved a bit for a more expensive vocal mic if you decide you want something with a different sound. If you an wait a little I'm expecting a couple of the Lewitt mics which are around the same price as the CM4/sE8 option. A lot of people like a large diaphragm mic for vocals, something like the OC818 (or OC18) from Austrian Audio or a classic like an AKG 414. Have a look at this video and see what you think? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GLEE9LqBhIc.html What is the rest of your gear? Ta like, ppm6.

I'm as cheap as the next man but to be fair I don't think the F6 is expensive for what you get. I like to think of this as an expensive recorder... www.aaton.com/cantar-x3/overview And if you fill the battery box with standard batteries you can take it anywhere. Ta like, ppm6.

Because Michael, people are always wondering, do I need to spend the extra cash or can I get away with spending a little bit less? And at 15k views it's one of my most watched videos. Ta like, ppm6.

lol.... these are worth comparing.... Why are you complaining about this comparison?

@@djmc8505 You can't compare a jumbo jet to a fighter, because they are of different category. If you compare a Toyota Prado to Nissan Safari, may be fair. Because they are of the same category. F6 is designed for film makers, while H8 is for audiographers.

@@michaelrmarak5597 😅