Hi, my name is Jim Neeb and I have been a hobby woodworker and general builder of anything for 40 years. I have recently retired from a 30 year engineering career and am now dedicated to playing around in the shop full time.
This channel contains some of the woodworking, woodworking tool, and CNC projects I have been working on in an attempt to give back ideas to the RU-vid community which has given me a lot of great ideas over the years.
Great video once again Jim. I plan to install an additional probe and this video is very helpful. Question just to clarify the destroyed resistor on the MOSFET driver, it is the inboard resistor in line with the signal connection, correct? Thank again for the videos.
I don’t use the avid touch plate anymore. I use an opto-interrupted touch off so I don’t need any conductive wire to my CNC Depot S30C. Opto interrupt also has better repeatability. I’ve had my system drive a bit into the avid plate, thankfully it did not brake my bit.
The other thing about the AVID plate is you really don't want to use it with the very sharp tip bits because it can chip the ends off. But thats probably true of any hard topped touch off or plate. On yours, does the beam get broken by the bit, or is the opto device inside the touch off and you are breaking the beam by pushing down a top plate?
@@JNWoodworks My design presses on surface and under stat surface there is a flag that brakes a beam. Still the same issue with pointy bits and plates. When I tried breaking a beam with the actual bit I had too much variability because enough of the point end of a V bit is needed to break the beam which means you are actually below the true tip of the bit. So the plate/plunger is the most predictable. The opto or Ir sensor broken by a flag is the most consistent I have found if you cannot do a continuity loop. All that said I use the tool table so I am also not touching off every time and change tools with my ATC, I measure it once and then the length offset is applied when I use the M6 macro to change tools. Hope this makes sense.
Question: How would you identify the version of the CRP850-00E board that you have? I see physically on the board a reference to "Rev F-04" similar to the screenshots that AVIDCNC have on their support pages.
Hi Steve, If you go to the AVID schematics pages: www.avidcnc.com/support/instructions/electronics/pnp/manual/17.4/schematics/ you can see a board outline for the CRP850 board. The one I have, 17.4, is pretty different. It has 3 connector blocks in the upper right corner, whereas the newer ones only have 2.
@@JNWoodworks Thanks for the clarification. I have just Port 1 and 2 spaced apart in the top right of the board, and with your link I see the other revisions listed on the support page. I guess my board is a 20.1 or 21.2.
My AVID laser hardware is all prototype stuff they gave me for early testing, so it required a little extra mechanical work anyway. So to mount the laser on the air deploy unit, I had to mount an aluminum plate on front that is my adapter plate. I had my own magnetic dock mounted to the front of that plate. So when I got the LaserDock Pro and XT8, I just took my mag dock off and drilled new holes for the universal mounting plate that comes with the CNC kits and bolted that on, and then the LaserDock Pro base bolts to that. So I can't say for sure if it would bolt right on to the production version, but worst case you might have to drill and tap 4 holes in it for the universal adapter. The second thing is the weight. The current AVID deploy mechanism's retract spring is made for the weight of the 15W laser. When I added the 30W laser that I had (it is a little havier than the XT8), I had to add a second spring to boost its lift strenght. I just made a couple brackets on the back to hold the ends of a spring.
I haven't done any marking yet. I have tried a few power gradients trying to get multiple colors, but that is difficult with a blue laser to get consistent results. At the higher power levels, it will make a very black patch on stainless, so I know it iwill mark text nicely. One thing Opt told me was with this much power you should angle the laser a few degrees so the reflections don't hurt the laser.
@@alexchopek1385 Correct. Its just tricky to get the power and speed just right, and the pattern of the fill. Also, I started with thinner peices of SS sheets and warped them badly.
They are all imperial, however, they are easy to change. Just open them up with a text editor, and change the g20 to g21, and the g70 to g71, the the UNITS to mm. Keep in mind my post processors are specific to the ESS controller (thats what the AVID machines use).
@@JNWoodworks Thanks Jim. I have an AVID machine. I had an old OPT laser that I never could get working well, but inspired by the great work you have done with Warp9 I have an XT8 being delivered today.
I put the cutting focus and cut speed files for Vcarve here: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1bFFuwe7_nSRBT_EkUmhy22EmvVILATkX?usp=sharing I also put some Gcode files in there that will work for an AVID machine, or anything that uses and ESS controller.
I'm not too familiar with the software thats typcially used on the CO2 lasers. How do you normally burn vector files with that? Vectric can export as DXF, SVG, or PDF.
@@JNWoodworks Question is if when I use this sketch feature, can I then export as a .dxf or SVG. Not sure if VCARVE simulates these vectors for use ONLY in the tool path creation or if it indeed creates the vectors and can be exported for use or editing. Any help would be appreciated and thanks for the quick reply.
@@dankinsky9543 Ah, I got you. I loaded up that file and took a closer look. It does not seem to ever create a vector file, just some kind of internal format that it temporarity displays. You can run a simulation on it and save that as a bmp, jpeg, etc., but I don't see a way to save it as a vector format in any way. That would be a good feature to ask for. You could load the jpeg or bmp and raster burn it I'm sure, but that may not have as good of resolution. I personally like to burn vectors unless I'm doing detailed pictures. That makes me ask (because I have no idea), does the software on most CO2 lasers allow you to load in some kind of Gcode files? If so, then a Vectric post processor could be made that would work for this.
@@dankinsky9543 I agree. That would be a good thing to ask Vectric for on the next release. Does your machine allow loading any kind of Gcode files? If so, I could help you make a post processor that might work.
Great info in this video. Thank you. You mentioned 3d carving in the beginning. I have a different issue than vibrations, mine is the screen toolpath preview not showing for large 3d toolpaths and the program crashing and shutting down. I have a i7 12700 cpu with UHD770 integrated graphics and 64gig of DDR5 ram. It only happens on toolpath gcode files larger than about 100mb. Smaller than that and the previews look great. Any thoughts on what the problem could be? Thanks!
Thats a good question. I went back and looked at all my carves and the biggest file was 28MB, so you are doing some really large ones :-) However, I know people that have done some really big ones and I haven't heard of a file size limit. A great place to ask that question would be in the AVID User Group on FB page (I'm assuming you are using Mach4?). That seems to be plenty of computer. I just checked on the Artsoft forum and there was a coment that the screen toolpath display is very resource intensive so for very large files you may need to turn off the toolpath display to handle that large of a file.
Here in the outside world we went metric and bits in incremental 0.1 mm steps are commonplace and easy to obtain from sources all over the globe. We used to use the imperial system here in UK but things are much simpler using the metric system. 0.1 mm is plenty accurate for woodworking and for most metalworking too.
Back in the 70s when I was growing up there was a pretty good movement to switch over to metric. One of the few useful things our government could have done is push that conversion along, but like always, they got distracted with other things that were more expensive and wasteful of taxpayer dollars and totally forgot about converting to metric. So in the US we have to know both systems, becaus about half of the stuff we have is metric, and half is imperial. I really don't buy the arguement that metric is easier, both systems are just arbitrary units and you have to learn what they mean and get good at estimating the size of each. The main reason I wish we would convert though is because I would't have to take out two sets of wrenches to work on something, and I could converse with other people around the world in the same units.
Great video and instruction, thanks. I have been highlighting vcarvings by running the laser along the vcarve toolpath. I allow the laser to move in the z axis to try and keep the focus. Thanks to your post processor. I am always learning from you.
Thats brilliant! When I was testing those post processors I ran it on a Vcarve toolpath for kicks and I thought it was sorta cool, but couldn't really think of a good use for it. Thats the cool thing about the RU-vid channel, I put stuff out there and get some really good ideas back on the comments. I'm gonna have to try it, but that makes sense, if you use the one "With Z" it should track the laser all the way up the corners and everything. I bet that would look really good on light wood.
Thanks for making the video I’ll have to try it out Was wondering what size air compressor you using for the air assist on the opt laser? I’m using a shopsabre 23 not avid, I have use laser module and laser post processor from shopsabre without and problem I’m assuming I can use that same laser post processor to do what you did in this video
My air system is a little bit overkill for just air assist 🙂 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zDu10hs-lug.html I can't say for sure, but I would guess you can start with the post processor I wrote, but would probably have to make some modifications. My modifications to convert spindle RPM to laser power, and to add the laser on/off commands to feed moves and rapid moves would be the same, but I would guess that the actual laser commands themselves between the ESS controller I have and the shopsabre are probably different. However, if you send me your laser post processor from the shop sabre, I might be able to figure it out for ya. jnwdwks@gmail.com
Correct, no special spindle, no air or solenoids, etc. No big racks or tool holders. Really nice for smaller machines, hobbyists, or people who don't have the money for a full blown ATC, or can't get an ATC spindle on their machine. Honestly though, I think this would work fine for a production shop on a big machine too.
Well that is an interesting question, I totally forgot about that toolpath. I have not actually tried it yet with anything. So I just did a quick experiment. That toolpath lets you use a few different tools, but not an end mill. I chose an engrave bit, set the angle to 1 degree (thats as small as it would let me), and set the bits flat tip diameter to 0.007", and then generated the image in the simulation and it looked good. So I'm sure it can be done. Thanks for the idea, I may do a quick video on that!
I was doing the sketch carve on a family photo and the toolpath preview looks good but there’s no way to make vectors to laser from that other than saving preview image and import bitmap and trace and never looks as good
Thank you for this. I just finished wiring, mounting the XT-8, and building my new modular laser bed for my existing CNC bed. I have Aspire and know how to use it well with my spindle. I have know idea how to use the laser. Opt Laser does a poor job of providing instructions. Or if they have instructions, they need to show where to find instructions for a first-time laser user. I couldn't see the page when you showed us how to add the laser as a CNC bit. Would it be possible to show how to change and modify to a laser on the add bit page? I have a UCNCC 400ETH and a Gecko 540. Can I use your custom post-processor, or is it only for Maach4? Sorry for so many questions and requests; I want to start. I purchased my Opt Laser to complement and add capabilities/features to my Woodworking business. I often watch your videos; I built a raised honeycomb bed after noticing yours was raised. I'm curious what you think about the bed I built and whether it was worth it or overkill. If you tell me where to send photos to you, I can show you some pictures. My email is stevencruzcp@gmail.com if you wish to chat in private
Hi Steven, You can contact me at jnwdwks@gmail.com. I can send you a video clip or description on how to create a new tool in aspire for the laser, and yes I'd love to see your honeycomb table top. I'm not very familiar with the UCNCC controllers, but I would imagine the post processor would need some adjustment because the commands are likely a little different. However, I can send you a link to the right place to ask :-)
I just figured out why my computer didn't record the pop-up windows for the tool creation. I just did a new video on how to use a laser with the new sketch carve tool path and show how to create the laser tools in there too.
@@JNWoodworks Awesome, thank you! I sent you a brief video via a Dropbox link to demonstrate how and why I made the Laser Honeycomb Top. I could improve in front of a camera, but the information is there.
Yes, Lightburn can do rastering correctly. Unfortunately Lightburn doesn't work on too many CNC controllers, mostly just Grbl based arduino ones, so I can't use it. However, fortunately, the ESS controller has a great rastering capability built in, so no extra software needed for that on an AVID cnc.
Funny you should mention that. I was just playing with CV mode a few days ago trying to fine tune it because I found that on certain types of shapes (ovals especially, because Vectric creates an oval with many small segments of straight lines) I got more jerky motion. Mach4 has a few different CV tuner wizards, and I was hoping to find one that made the toolpath run smoother. In the end, I got the best laser performance (the best quality laser line) with exact stop mode, so that is now what I set my machine to. As far as the Vectric Laser Picture Toolpath, that is not going to be improved by CV mode, because it is really limited by the fact that its running as Gcode and not real rastering.
ya, i can lift it out of the pocket in the spoilboard and use it on the workpeice. Its not bolted down. So I will toolset one tool, then move it over to the workpeice to set work coordinates, and then put it back and run the whole Gcode program and it will do all the remaining toolsets as it changes bits.
why dont you put theauto z touch plate a lot closer? Like right next to it. Makes the whole operations always a bit faster. Thanks for the vid and cheers
That was the location I was already storing my touchplate. I have grooves milled into my spoilboard so it has a precise location to sit in, so I just programmed those coordinates for the tool setter. You are correct, if you were setting it all up fresh, you'd want it closer to the magazine.
6:24 @Jim, how did you connect your laser touch off rod to chassis ground? I just checked on mine today and there’s no continuity. Did you just connect a wire from some metal part of the laser to some metal part of the CNC gantry or something? Is there any safety issue either isolating or grounding the laser to the chassis?
Hi Ryan, The laser rod clamps are bolted tot he universal adapter plate (there are a couple of convenient tapped holes there already), and all the rest of the laser mounting hardware is metal so it all conducts through to the Z stage which is chassis grounded several ways, the best being the spindle wiring. So all I have to do is attach the magnet wire from the touchplate somewhere on the machine's chassis (i like the rotary unit because its got lots of steel) and then the laser touch rod or the spindle will trip the touch plate. I plan on added a 3D probe soon, and I will probably just wire the touchplate ground to chassis so that I don't have to drag the magnet and wire for it around.
Great job on the reviews on the ATC. We had them on my show when I found out about the product and am really impressed. We will be talking about your videos tonight
You may need a few more collets and nuts so you can load it up. And then maybe a relay and wire (depending on what CNC you have) to get your spindle to run in both directions.
Jim, I have a 1/2 collet that was very loose and caused the bit to drop out , so I used an automatic center punch and punched the collet a couple times at the grove that holds the collet in the nut and that tighten it up enough to keep the bit from dropping out.
I was a little worried about doing anything that creates a bump on the surface of the collet. That can cause bits to break, or the collet to not get tight enough.
During the cutting of the dove tails, I noticed that you had that orange and blue air nozzle. Were you blowing air during that cut? Does that help evacuate the wood chips?
yes, I almost always use the air nozzle with the spindle. It keeps the chips from packing in on deep grooves, but in general it helps get the chips up in the air so the dust collector can suck them up better.
Jim, I can't thank you enough for this tutorial (and the others). You have been a sanity saver for me to say the least. I'm a long time Mach3 user who added an Optlaser like you did. I found that M3 just wasn't good enough for what I wanted so I upgraded. WOW, the learning curve has been steep. Nothing is really the same, as they point out. the most frustrating thing is that my laser is working just fine in Mach3 so why can't I make it work in Mach4. I have Mach4 working a mill, but the laser addition is a lot of mystery. Hours and hours of reading and research and I've made some progress. Then i found you. Even though I'm not using the Avid version of Mach, I now have a good understanding of what I was missing. Your attention to detail has really helped me. Thanks so very much.
You are welcome Jim. If you have an ESS controller in your machine then you should be able to use the documentation I have on my Google drive. Email me if you have any questions. jnwdwks@gmail.com
I am running vcarve pro and laser plugin. I cannot get the jtech or avid to put the m67 e1 q??? 0-100 in the gcode. How did you get yours in there. My laser wont fire unless i have the m67 e1 g 0-100 code in it.
Hello, the post processor for Vcarve is what puts those commands in there. The standard post processor from them probalby doesn't have the correct code. However, I have one that I wrote that works, as well as some other laser setup documentation for Mach4 and ESS. You can find them here: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1xB6J0RZIU1j8g951NkP-8HXC1swC2C-B?usp=drive_link If yo have any futher questions, feel free to send me an email at jnwdwks@gmail.com
Jim, very cool concept here! I realize this proof of concept may largely be for those without a spindle - but if you have both, you gave me an idea to combine both: burned looks awesome as a background, and then use the spindle for main shape, then laser again for deepest details. Like in your photoshop-esque program remove all detail lighter than shade x, just to capture the best shadows. Then burn that in on top of the spindle shape, to give bit more 3D effect/depth. Anyway, I love your content, thanks for opening so many concepts up to me and so many here. 👍🙏👏
Thank you for your videos on this product. Very helpful! Great information. I have a question about dust collection/boot. How does that work with this system please? Do you need a specific boot in order for this to work. Thanks again!
I don't currently have a dust boot that will work with this ATC. This is a problem area for most ATC's. I am planning on designing and building one that will work with this in the future.
Hello, I’ve been investigating this issue with my own machine similar to yours. People seem to forget that the that these machines are sitting on six 1/2 inch pins to the floor. There has to be movement there. I’m considering bracing to the floor or setting up blocking to strengthen that section. Just a thought.
Hi Bill, Well, those pins aren't meant to stop the machine from moving. The stiffness comes from the frame, not the connecting to ground. However, in the end most of us that worked on the frame only got moderate results because in the end, if your motor movements are too agressive, any machine will flex and have vibrations. I got much better results by adjusting my accelleration settings. See this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ws4fzEN97BU.html
Hi, when I look at mine which is similar to yours, even if I completely stiffen the frame, I am still left with those 6 adjustment feet flexing back and forth in the threaded piece of aluminium bolted to the bottom of the aluminium legs. I suppose if I screw them all in as far as I can and still have a level machine it should reduce the bending moment on the adjustment studs. I will certainly take the strategies you have worked out and employ them into my build. Thanks for taking the time to create the video and getting back to me regarding my comment. Regards.
@@billjohnson7834 You probably do have some movement those feet, and reducing it will help some. I never really thought about it much at first, but I was trying to reduce the movement of the table, but after working on this for a while, I realized that the table movement itself doesn't affect the cut quality, its the relative movement between the spindle (or laser head) and the workpiece. So I did get some reduction in table movement in the stiffening I did in this video, which at least was nice to keep the table from shaking itself apart, but I still had chatter in my router cuts and squiggles in my laser lines. This was due to flexing everywhere else in the system, like the gantry, linear rails and stuff. I couldn't reduce any of that mechanically, but dialing down the motor accellerations really is where my cut quality improved.
@@JNWoodworks Interesting, I can see having that type of vibration from my helical rack feeding back into the system. I would think that lasers would show that vibration the most as compared to a router cut. On smaller machines, ball screws should eliminate that.
@@billjohnson7834 There are low level vibrations on my machine from the belts and the gears, but until I adjusted the acceleration settings (AVID CNC sets them aggressive by default) the most prominent ones were from acceleration during moves. You are right, the laser is a perfect way to see that, in direction, amplitude, and frequency. Once I started looking at my laser traces is where I started understanding what is going on. I now still have a periodic vibration due to either the racks or belts (can't tell which because they have the same tooth pitch). I probably won't be able to do much about that.
Thanks for your testing with this system. My hope is that they keep expanding compatibility and reliability, without selling out to some industry giant that will jack the price way up or take it off market due to having a competing product. On the subject of collets.. Chinese collets suck. Even if you check runout at the top of the shank, concentricity at the tip is often terrible. Maritool is a good middle ground between China and Lyndex for example. They are more expensive, but they are more accurate, help tools last longer, and come in all sorts of metric and standard sizes. I think half mm increments too on the metric side to fit whatever oddball tooling you have. As you know, you want a slip fit which will occur when you use a 1/2 collet with a 1/2 tool, where the tool goes in without a fight, but where it doesn't slide out. Not just for the tool changer, but for tool life, collet longevity, and accuracy too. EDIT - *tool not bit You don't use bits, you use tools. You use bits in your screwdriver. You load a drill into your collets, not a bit. Sorry. Pet peeve that was drilled into my head by an old wiley bastard of a machinist / shop owner. Hope no offense is taken. Lol😅
I agree, I think this ATC fits a part of the market that isn't served will by the traditional ATC, and I think there is easily room for both in the market. Thanks for the tip, i will take a look at Maritool. I have been using collets that AVID sells (and I don't remember what brand they are), and a few Techniks (which are made in Taiwan). Both have had good runout measurements and hold the "tools" 😉just fine. My only complaint is some are just on the loose side when the nut has not been tightened, which is just annoying for manual loading (I hate it when you loosen it and your router bit ends up on the floor), but very important for this ATC.
Hey Jim, not sure if you have said this in the past videos, does adding this take up one of your axes for the dust cover? I would hope it's more of just a trigger on/off type thing. Thanks for the great videos. Including the OPT laser videos. I got the XT-50 just before the XT8 was announced, maybe someday I'll upgrade.
They are steppers so you can connect directly to them with one of your controller axis if you want, but they also supply a stepper driver and a little micro controller board, so you can just use a regular output to trigger the lid, and an input for the IR sensor, which is what I did.
I know this is a few years old, but for anyone trying this. There is a Steps Per Unit calculator in the Mach4 Wizard menu (StepsPerUnitCalculatorBasic). Pretty intuitive. Select motor, input move distance, and velocity, click move and it does the calculations for you. Then you take the result and input in the Motor calibration Counts Per Unit.
