Very interested in trying the tempo list with frogs and goyfs, but waiting for grief to (hopefully) get banned soon before then. Just unfortunate that we're stuck in such a lame duck format right now
I have been trying this list with night's whisper instead of one of the loriens and one less tropical for one more fetch, I have done some sb adjustements(-1 push for 1 dismember and -1 veil for 1 nihil). I did 4-0 in my last FNM, 4-1 in one paper league of 20ppl and 4-2 in a 45ppl league. I think it works pretty good. Sometimes I miss the third cycler so much so I think I will substitute drown for 1 SW. I will go to Impact returns in Naron spain next week (about 200 ppl). I wanted to ask your oppinion on bringing this list with my adjustments. 4th veil in side maybe is necessary. I can't decide between 4c DD, turbo or sultai. Any suggestion?
I think - broadly - those changes seem fine. But I’m currently exploring a list I made that is dimir with a few frogs and 3 rings. It feels pretty good but I haven’t been facing scam (people in legacy leagues seem to be working from the assumption that scam will gone, IDK). Video coming this Friday
It’s hard to say. But I think the Dimir Reanimator Tempo hybrid will probably continue if all they ban is Grief, so I’m unsure how much that will change things. I personally will likely stick with Dimir because frog is so powerful
Hey, sorry if you mentioned it and I missed it. But any consideration for the new Consign to Memory counterspell? Hits triggered abilities and colorless spells, which I feel could be relevant against the artifacts/eldrazi you face? Small tech with replicate lets you pay an extra 1 to get around a counterspell might also be relevant
Yeah that’s definitely a card with relevant text here. I don’t know though. At a cursory glance it competes with Stifle. Consign is significantly better at resolving Dreadnought but significantly worse overall in that it can’t target activated abilities. Could be worth testing :)
Yeah that’s an interesting approach. What are obvious inclusions aside from plow and thrull? I suspect we are entering a time where Bowmasters will see less play due to frog taking its place and being good vs it. Could this be the time for Baleful Strix to shine again? Nonbo with thrull tho… hmm
@MartinNielsen_nevilshute I like uro, nulldrifter, nought as the go to guys. Thrull, dress down, and stifle as the combo. I would definitely be playing Nadu, stoneforge, shuko in the deck (easiest reason to play yorion). I like the black splash for frog if you are planning on fueling the new goufs and for awesome removal and thoughtseize. I think there are a lot of ways to build this deck in those colors, but I think it all mashes really well together.
Of course, the more you lean into different colors the more access you gain to other powerful effects as well. You could easily make frog gouf esper or sultai too. Those deck would probably be light on noughts because all it's just an all in body
As a 'Nought enjoyer, thank you for the video! Great result. Something about the archetype, it really wants to be able to play off basics because going 2 lands -> 3 lands is such a key progression. So trying to make the mana work for a UB spell is kinda awkward. But then the power level on Frog is absolutely there as you show. White gets StP to help with tempo, and Thrull to make Doomsday pilots sad. But the black cards looked absolutely great here. I also wonder about a Death's Shadow build that wants to Reanimate a Nulldrifter - and pretty soon the 'Nought looks like the worst card in the deck - but that's just spitballing.
Thanks for watching and for the comment. The point about basics is interesting and probably rules out a third color. I’m sure Shadow can be incorporated but it’s a different deck then, which is fine :) Scam probably? Reanimate and Nulldrifter is maybe fine, after all annihilator 1 on that body is great and the life loss is relevant with Shadow, but not getting to draw 2 seems like a problem
Hey, loved the video. I noticed in the first game that you keep too many cards with the Awakening. That could help the failrate a bit at least. I'm not a believer in the deck fwiw. Keep grinding!
Thanks for the comment! Hmm yeah that’s something I’ve not been focusing too much on. Good point. If I get the urge to set fire to play points again I will be more cognizant of that 😅
Yeah, it's not relevant learning for me either, but I just noticed straight away that you kept irrelevant rituals over digging harder for the 1U spell. It's fine to be an old man and keep the Pact, but the rituals are incredibly irrelevant because you are guaranteed to hit more mana, but not the 3-of
Thanks for the video! I'd agree that these Necrodom storm decks seem overhyped. Such high variance, hard to imagine taking it to a high stakes event. Not obvious it's better than Oops All Spells, which at least wins deterministically if it does the thing. Simulators really seem to be over-optimistic - "with protection" doesn't protect you against a T1 Grief or T1 Vexing Bauble, for example.
Part of me wants to say that just lessens my faith in simulators. But I will, again, acknowledge that I weren’t playing optimally and who knows, maybe it’s better than I think
Thank you so very, very much. It means a lot with this type of comment. This 15 min video took me 3 times as long to edit compared to a regular mtgo league video. I’d love to do more of this style of content so hope it’s well received :)
In Round 4, games 1 and 2 the opponent played Mutavault with Eldrazi Linebreaker on the battlefield. Linebreaker gives creatures haste so not turning Mutavault into a creature misses at least 4 damage in those spots--it seemed like they wanted to hold up two mana for something. Game 1 it was a little fishy (like maybe they don't know what their cards do, the set is brand new), but game 2 when they activated the Mutavault with itself alarms were going off in my head. I was convinced that the opponent had been holding Warping Wail in all of the games, so I was very surprised in game 3 to see no response to an Oracle trigger while the library wasn't empty.
I just love the 4c version. The face of people when they see you playing marvel doomsday is funny. And it has access to a lot of different tools. Well I will be the one feeling more comfortable with 4c than with turbo
I'm almost never getting struggled by the mana base. If you know what to go for in the right moment, and I end up searching for a ritual more often which is something it also happens with turbo dd
I think vexing bauble is a mistake in design. Trying to fix grief with this card is absurd because the spectrum of implications from this card is super wide. It goes way beyond the typical forces and dazes all the way to affinity and storm decks. Cards like meltdown, Witherbloom command and prismatic ending will see an uptick.
Any scenario where we move into Jace wielder of mysteries or laboratory maniac to dodge the trigger being countered or even the dress downs and doorkeeper thrulls ?
Thank you so much for this! I had higher hopes for Necro dominance being Doomsdays 5-8 to allow me to cut stinky Personal Tutor, but it looks like it won't be good enough to see play :/ Do you think Sink into Stupor might be a common card people play in this format? I'm nervous about its application to either bounce Oracle with trigger on the stack with one card in library, or causing you to lose the game outright if you have no cards in deck when you cast Oracle. I've heard chatter about Stupor seeing play as a way to beat Storm hate cards with minimal deck investment, so curious to hear your thoughts there.
Thanks so much for watching! One thing is theorycrafting. I wouldn’t rule out Doninance ahead of time but yeah, skeptical :) Regarding Sink into Stupor I’m not worried. Tempo decks are not going to play this. A three mana (double blue) bounce spell that can also bounce a spell… it just seems well under par. And a wasteland-able island that comes into play tapped unless you take 3. I think that leaves out fair blue decks. This might see play in unfair decks like a Day’s Undoing / Narset deck where it will be competing with otawara or Oops all spells but oops won’t play this imo. UU1 to bounce something isn’t good enough and Oops isn’t going to be sitting on 3 open mana to play the control role vs Doomsday. That’s my 1 min analysis. Now watch me crash and burn as this becomes a legacy staple! 😂
@@MartinNielsen_nevilshuteI think you're probably mostly right but I do imagine it'll show up in oops to answer lock pieces. Like you said though, it's hard for it to show up in the oops vs doomsday matchup I think. There's also blue dredge that may be interested in playing it.
Agreed on Necrodominance, I think TOR is likely to just be better. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I feel like they went too far with nerfing Necro and this new version is just too weak for combo decks that don't have an instant speed win to draw into.
Interesting that in your last game, if the opponent had countered the lotus with force of negation they'd have got another turn. It's obviously still correct to go for it there but I've had opponents do that sometimes, because it exiles black lotus if it resolves.
Yeah that’s a really good point. That’s one of the Vintage skills I hope to one day learn: when is it correct to counter the lotus? If you suspect a Cavern of Souls that’s one thing, but in like a blue mirror… a little bit similar with “do you ever counter demonic tutor”
Watching the whole league, seeing the struggle with the mana base and the sideboard pivot plan, it crossed my mind various times, “why not just go dimir with 3 personal tutors?!” 🤣 I get the appeal of green mainly for veil and carpet but honestly the white doesn’t seem to fit the strategy. Dilutes the plan compared to the other faster more stable doomsday version. That my 2cents. Keep up the good work!!! All the best.
Thanks for chiming in. I think the white is what let’s you play a longer game and if we were to cut it and just be bug or dimir we would need cards that let’s us play longer like Bowmasters to answer their bowmasters etc.
Every time this deck is played, after the deck tech I’m thinking: “this looks really fun I should play this again”. But by the end of the video I’m reminded how tough the 4-color mana base is.
Fully sideboarding out of doomsday was always disastrous lol, personally hate turning this fast sleek combo deck into a durdly control deck with toxic cards like 3feri and one ring
Thanks. And thanks for pointing that out. I can relate to that and it’s funny cause it’s not something I think about when recording. I will definitely try to work on that but I worry idiolects/idiosyncrasies like that might be hard to change. I hope it doesn’t stop you from enjoying the content completely:)
@@MartinNielsen_nevilshute no it doesn’t stop me from watching I just noticed it and I wanted to point it out bc I love your content and want it to grow!
Also, I think when Stryfo said "oopsies" it was because he was holding up Coliseum for counter-Doomsday shenanigans, but it was already lethal with Bowmasters in play; you were just dead if he activated it on his turn even if you drew into veil to negate the pings, as the army alone would have been big enough to finish off the last 3 points
Thanks! Yeah I thought so too but then someone pointed out that if he activates coliseum I’m just dead cause I’m at 3 and he has Bowmasters out hehe. Guess both of us missed it
Yeah I definitely enjoy it too. Did get a little bit punished on the mana requirement from being 4-color this time around. Something I’ve not had come up that much in the past. I also played a bug version for awhile with 3 rings… might want to have that a go
I think getting proficient and confident with a combo deck like this is mostly about practice and about accepting that sometimes when you lose you feel bad/stupid because it is very clear that you maybe made a mistake. Maybe you forgot that you already made your land drop and mis-built your pile or whatever… but you just need to accept those situations, learn from them and move on. The control-player made their mistake on t2 when they fetched a basic instead of a dual but they didn’t actually lose the game till t7 so it’s not so apparent where the mistake happened
