@@Malekith227 🤣 thanks for pointing that out. I took a look at their website homepage, big lol. When the company becomes larger, they start hiring people who aren't themselves archer. And that's where the problem starts. The boss instructs to measure the max drawlength, and the workers be like: Worker A: I think this is the max draw, it's really stiff. I'm afraid it'll break. Worker B: Boss says max drawlength. The bows isn't broken yet, keep pulling. (Bow breaks) Worker B: Aha now that's the max drawlength. Note it down. Worker A: Ok

@@bambooarchery As you can see their Qing bows are not in their catalogue anymore but they are still listed because their webmaster is not a webmaster either it seems.

@@Malekith227 wow, I didn't even notice they took it down. Likely because something is wrong with the bow. I did mentioned in the past that there's something wrong with their Manchu model. It's super prone to twisting.

​@@bambooarchery I very well know why they took them down. And it's not because of that. Two month ago I bought a Qing 45 pounder (measured at 28, because reasons) from them. It delaminated 10 seconds after I strung it. They sent me a replacement... That exploded (the wooden core snapped both at the siyah and at the handle) after a dozen shots, probably a problem with the core itself. Now I'm waiting the second replacement that should arrive two days from now. They assured me that this one have been thoroughly tested (I don't believe them, but we'll see). It's suppose to be 48 pounds at 28 with a max draw of 34 with a recommendation of 15gpp. I shoot at least 17gpp at 33 so It should be ok if this one doesn't have the defects of the previous ones... They don't know how to weight their bows either. The 45 they sent me was labeled ''47'' beneath the handle' padding. And getting an answer from them was a pain in the ass. Their customer service on Facebook seems to be a different shop with no executive power and they do not read the chat on their website. I had to MP Shan Shan on FB to have the bow shipped, one week after the date they were suppose to... If this one is as faulty as the others I'll just go through Paypal directly instead of them...

@@Malekith227 there's plenty that didn't delaminate though. The 2 units that I received, they didn't delaminate. But after each shot, it unstrings itself, both units. Found the issue in the nocks being too shallow, modified it and it now works. However, it is very twisty and I have to be very careful with each draw.

@@Couponuser16 adding string bridge will increase brace height, reducing powerstroke. If you increase the string length to drop the brace height such that the brace height is the same as without the string bridge, then the limb has to bend less than before and could potentially become unstable, depending on how tall the bridge to be compensated.

@@bambooarchery Thank you for your thoughts! I gotta couple more Qs for you if you are up for it. What would be the concern with having the bending limb do less bending than before, would it put an increased amount of force at the siyah / limb junction point? And If stability was maintained how much do you think potential energy & cast speed would be impacted by a string bridge large enough to make a non-string contact bow into a bow with string contact during the draw if any?

@@Couponuser16 hard to predict. You have to look at the force draw curve

@@bambooarchery I do have the force draw curve on the bow I have in mind, not sure how would be the best to share if you are interested. It isn't linear, but it also isn't as extreme early on as other designs with more aggressive siyah angles. It's also an "XL" version, being 64" from nock to nock to accommodate a 34" draw from the belly so the F/D curve is more elongated than other Magyar/Xiongnu/Hunnic designs. But since the siyah angle is so much less aggressive than other designs, and the bow is extra long I think I might have a chance to sacrifice some stability. It is also admittedly a bit overbuilt due to these customizations. It's also an authentic horn composite, if that impacts things. But it is 47lbs @ 28" (from the belly), starts stacking after 33" where it is 59lbs, and goes up to 64lbs in that last inch with a 7.5" brace height (bow string is 59"). 25% of max draw at 11" (16lbs), 50% of max draw at 20" (32lbs), 75% at 28.5" (48 lbs), 92% at 33" (59lbs), and then 64lbs at 34".

@@Couponuser16 you can send to my WhatsApp or Facebook, both before and after the change for comparison

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv the slightly longer string won't make much difference at all. If it stacks, get a new bow. I've been very transparent about the true max draw of every bow. When customer buy from me, they pay me for my advice so that they don't end up in situations like this. You cannot significantly change the behaviour of the bow after the purchase.

@@kevinmaughan4290 either WhatsApp me at +60122669631, or FB message me (Bamboo Archery - Malaysia, Ronald Chong Kok Hoong)

@@johnf3f810 already responded

@@1czechit1 how tall are you and what's your drawlength?

@@bambooarchery I am 6"4 with a draw of 36" shooting thumb and 32" shooting Olympic.

@@1czechit1 I have bows that can support 37"

@@bambooarchery I will take a look!

@@1czechit1 you'll have to WhatsApp +60122669631 or FB message. I didn't advertise the 37" draw bow.

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv yup but it's true. That's why I was disbelieved when I first draw it. I even had to plot the force draw curve to verify what I felt is real. Check my FB page for the force draw curve. It's similar in smoothness to AF Sicai 53" and Paragon Raider 52". The smoothness is immediately noticeable the first time you draw it. I have expectations based on past experience with other bows, so I wasn't expecting it. So when I draw such a short bow with expectations of stacking, I was totally surprised by how smooth it was. I literally said to myself, "wtf, for real, no way". Then I quickly took out the other short bows to compare. Watch my earlier Jotoman review, when I first got it.

@@bambooarchery For lets say you have two bows with the same length. One is D shaped and one the limbs flare out like a B shape like a korean bow. Which shape provides the smoother draw?

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv I would need to look at the details in every part of the limb, kasan, siyah, and even the nock. Depending on how each are tillered, result differs too. Based on description alone, I can't determine which would be smoother or otherwise. Some part may have something that increases the stacking, but another part relieves it, so their effect cancels out.

@@yusdirman 😂

The 100# was a shitty but cheap bow. But the 70# wasn't durable. About 1-2 weeks after this video was taken, the bow delaminated. It's a glass-horn hybrid.

@@bambooarchery Do heavy bows delaminate quicker than lighter ones?

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv a definite yes. The strength of the core and glue doesn't change as the poundage increases. So they will be increasingly closer to their limits, along with risk of delamination.

Never tried it but the string is Dacron B50, and given the way the bow is designed/built, this bow will most likely survive several dryfires, especially at lower poundages. In fact, this bow was originally designed for use by students in my archery class. So surviving accidental dryfires is one of the criteria. It just so happens to perform much better than I had expected, so I'm highly recommending it.

@@bambooarchery Cool! Looks nice and curvy though!

Please WhatsApp me at +60122669631

There are 2 reasons to nocking high: 1) they don't know what they are doing. 2) poor bow hand technique, pushing the bottom of the grip, which result in the nock diving and crashing into the hand, so the nock high is a workaround at the expense of damaging the bow. High nock results in top limb overloading and the bottom limb underloading. Nock height is not something you set based on shooting distance. Nock height is based on making both limb contribute equally so that the arrow launches perfectly straight with maximum efficiency. I have the YMG Hwarang and it shoots just like any normal bow. No need for high nock.

No, I don't have any interest in a warbow. Higher poundage don't really improve arrow speed. In fact, excessively high poundage have decreased efficiency. In this region, it used to be that majority of male archers seek high poundage but over the years, almost everyone realized there's just no benefit to that. Nowadays, everyone here goes for 30-40# which are the sweet spot. Only in western countries that I still get the higher poundage requests.

@@bambooarchery Interesting. Lets say you have Arrow A at 350 grains from non-war bow shooting 180 fps vs Arrow B from a war bow going the same speed but with a 1000 grain arrow; Would the heavier arrow be less prone to wind resistance and be more consistent? I'm sure no one has to go extreme and pull medieval but they could pull 50-70 pounds to get the advantage to move a heavier arrow.

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv the heavy arrow is not necessarily more resistant to wind. To get the arrow heavier, you used a bigger diameter shaft, which has more drag and more surface area to catch the wind. Additionally, to control such arrow weight, you also needed more fletching which also increases your drag and wind drift significantly. To make it even more complicated, you are struggling for control of the bow and burning through stamina rapidly. That's why high poundage bow often result in poor accuracy and consistency. The key to reducing drag and wind drift is not arrow weight, but arrow diameter and fletching size. By shrinking down, you can increase the density of the arrow and make it more wind resistant. If you simply size up, you are only increasing weight, but not density.

@@bambooarchery I guess that is what you meant by decrease efficiency

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv not only that, but the bow itself too. For the same reason why an ant can carry 50 times its own weight, but humans can't. When you scale up, the material characteristics itself didn't get scaled, you simply use more of it. So when poundage goes higher, the material itself doesn't become stronger, just more material is used and the material is stressed more. But the limitations of the material such as strength and strain limit remains unchanged. At some point, you cannot just scale up the poundage without thickening the limb's laminate layer or siyah wood significantly. When that happens the increase in bow's limb mass is more than the increase in bow poundage, reducing the power to mass ratio, thus losing some efficiency.

Band-aids are much more expensive than paper tape 🤣

True. But if you have it around, it works 😂 I used sports tape but wanted to find something better. Thanks for the video, bro! I always appreciate insight like this. Hope you are doing well!

Facts: 1) Sultan is not high quality, many reported bow failure, and I know the root cause, I just didn't discuss about it openly. 2) No historical Turkish bow look like the Sultan. Mostly feature intricate and finely detailed hand painting, not a simple 1-minute spray paintjob. 3) Tests has shown that carbon core does not increase arrow speed at all, and barely add any twist resistance. The "benefits" seems to be purely marketing. 4) Daylite isn't a brand to be trusted because they advertise their AF-rebranded Turkish and Tatar as "carbon" but they are actually black fiberglass.

@@bambooarchery not facts, just more opinion, I don’t mind disagreeing, but seems like you only recommend what you make more profit on. Sorry man, but can’t take your reviews seriously. I don’t mean any offense.

@@SunnahSurvivalPMC I can make much more profit selling the Sultan than the Queyue. But I'll also have to warranty more on the Sultan than the Queyue. I can't take anyone seriously when they say their own personal opinion represent "many other people"; calling a poor quality as high quality; couldn't distinguish art from cheap paint; never had to deal with warranty headache; and calling real facts as opinion whenever it upsets you, facts are never sweet. As a seller, we talk to many customers and we know the majority agree that the paintjob looks cheap as hell. The only reason buyers originally went for it was purely due to a huge discount. But when the discount ended, nobody wants it. So AF decided to offer it at a discount again. So next time, if you don't know, don't act like you know.

@@bambooarchery I wasn’t even slightly upset with your subjective opinions. It sounds like you are the one who is upset because you can’t handle someone disagreeing with you. Everyone can read and see you are so emotional over the fact that I disagreed with your opinionated review with very little objective information. There are other well known archery RU-vidrs that also disagree with you, for example Armin Hirmer, his review is a thousand times more objective than yours. Don’t be upset just because there is more than one opinion other than yours and that I don’t worship your opinion as many of the younger gullible subscribers do.

@@SunnahSurvivalPMC lol, I'll leave these reply here so that people can learn more. If anything, viewers can see that I'm being even more objective and factual. Your opinion on me do not matter. Viewers know if they are buying from AF directly, I make absolutely nothing anyway, so it doesn't matter to me. If they decided to buy from me, I can make more profit promoting the Sultan than the Queyue (any other dealers can easily check the catalog and verify what I said is true). I think I also mentioned about the Korean glass in the video (I didn't rewatch it), but this again verified my suspicion is correct and accurate, literally written clearly in their catalog. AF literally lied to customer and dealers about using Korean glass to make it sound like it's a higher quality, but I've inspected the glass and I know their materials better than their salesperson. So I know their marketing claim is just impossible and now their updated catalog clearly says China-made fiberglass. Carbon core, also I can make extra profit promoting it, but I usually don't because it's already been proven by several people that it does almost nothing, just a waste of money. In Malaysia and Indonesia, many fiberglass bow are just painted on to save cost, and also to allow the bowyer to use lower quality and cheaper material, since it's hidden under the paint and customers can't see them anyway. But with time quality issue will show through, and the paint also deteriorates, often unsightly. Lastly, Daylight Turkish and Tatar are just rebranded bows, but the problem I have with them is the inaccurate/misleading advertising. They are just black fiberglass (not carbon) with bamboo core (not hard maple); no UD carbon, but has carbon core instead, not the same thing.

When material bends, one side stretches and another compresses. Somewhere in between, the material experiences nothing, neither tensile nor compression. It is called neutral axis. The further the skin is from the neutral axis, the more strain it will experience. Every material has a strain limit, which is how much it can stretch or compress, before it starts failing. Lower poundage has thinner limbs, so for the same given bend, the skin experiences less strain. Higher poundage has thicker limbs, so for the same exact bend, the skin experiences more strain. So higher poundage will reach material strain limit sooner than the lower poundage on the same exact model, which means reduced max drawlength. Depends on how the maker/seller wants to advertise his product, for example the Jotoman 45# is capable of 32" draw. However, I advertise as 31" max to account for margin of error. Jotoman 20# can bend even more, but I'll just keep it at 31" to avoid confusion among users. I have shot a Manchu sinew-horn-composite. The initial draw weight is weak, the poundage doesn't build much initially. The poundage increases more rapidly after a few inches, meaning not smooth draw. That's not good, lower energy storage. The arrow launch feels weak because there's less energy storage, less power. Hence vibration is also naturally less since there's less power to begin with. Hornbows can better tolerate lower gpp mainly because they are slower. For example, a laminated bow could score 200fps at 9gpp (28" draw), but hornbow would score 200fps at 7gpp (28" draw). I would consider a hornbow more similar to a solid fiberglass bow than a laminated bow.

@@bambooarchery Thank you very much, that description of manchu bow seems very similiar to english longbow to me (they feel like nothing in the beginning then they ramp up, but they are very linear, dont know whether the manchu felt linear or stacky to you).

Unfortunately not at the moment. Material limitation and bowyer unwilling to spend the time to do it. If I manage to convince him at some point, then I would announce it. 🤣

@@bambooarchery I want it in pink if you do make a warbow version for giggles...Another note what is your opinion on flat vs slanted handles? That bow you are promoting has a flat handle where palm touches, but Ive seen many bows with slanted handles?

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv hahaha, there's indeed an option for pink blossom finishing on the bow. But poundage-wise, bowyer says that there's a lot of other considerations, which is not doable at the moment. For the handle shape, I actually thought about 3 possibilities that you could be referring to: 1) a straight handle as being straight on the belly side, and is near perfectly vertical when held upright. In my opinion, I would prefer this type because it facilitates doing a slight khatra. Hence I find this more comfortable with my style of shooting. 2) a straight handle like (1) but it is slightly angled/sloped/slanted when held upright. I prefer this more than (1), it still facilitates khatra well, and is more comfortable to the wrist. However the catch is, this angle is very slight, just 3-4° from vertical. Anything more would start interfering with the khatra and would be undesirable. 3) an inward curved handle such as on Ming Moon 4. I don't like such handle as I find it very awkward to hold. But Ming Moon 6/1/3 with "straighter" handles, I'm ok with those. However, there are customers who prefer this type.

@@bambooarchery You answered my question and then some. Love your passion. keep making videos! You have the potential to have way more subscribers but you need to be creative.

I've tried a simsek but not a metbow. The simsek stacked very badly, I can't even reach my normal drawlength. Also handshock is quite notable during the short test.

20-45# 28" from belly. Production usually is within +/- 1#. But occasionally +/- 2#.

@@bambooarchery Oh that's so light

@@sh11533 hehe, we aren't going warbow poundage. 45# 28" -> 55# 31" is actually enough for most people.

Can I order higher pounds as a special order?

@@sh11533 unfortunately not at the moment. I had tried asking for 60-70# for a friend. But the materials and design we have now cannot support it.

That's absolutely true. When life and death matters, you'll pick the best, everytime

@@bambooarchery the only reason to take natural materials is experimental archeology and competion if you have to use traditional mats like wooden arrows wood selfbows, traditional hornbow and so on.

There's actually another video, which I uploaded later (likely within the last 1-2 years). It covers how you actually heat and fix the limb. There's also a video where I do an actual demo on a Saluki bow

Yes, you can. I've seen 100# 28" carbon bow

@@bambooarchery Damn!

@@bambooarchery Make your next video on everything war-bow related. love your passion!

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv I don't research too much on historical aspect. I'm more into just the design component, pros and cons of design decisions.

@@bambooarchery You can just talk about construction aspect of higher poundage bows and get a new customer base.

The warranty policy is that you claim from the seller. So if you bought direct from AF, then AF will warranty directly. AF usually respond fairly quick, please make sure to contact through the correct channel you had ordered from.

This channel is not about shooting. It is about untold information. If you want to see the bow being shot, you can visit Armin Hirmer channel. I provide information that are not told by paid influencers/reviewers, so that genuine buyers can make better informed decision.

There's 2 part of the story: 1) just because 2 bows are the same poundage at 28", doesn't mean they are the same poundage at 30". For example a stacky bow may be 40# 28", but gain 4# per inch (10% per inch, 10ppi), and reaches 48# 30". But a Super Recurve of 40# 28", only gained 0.8# per inch (2% per inch, 2ppi), and reaches 41.6# 30". Obviously 48# will stress your muscles out more than 41.6#. 2) since a stacky bow gain higher percentage of poundage per inch, it also means it'll drain you more just to maintain that drawlength because you aren't really holding the exact drawlength like a machine. Your muscles try to pull, then collapse, pull and collapse, repeatedly, it's a pumping action. Repeatedly subjected to this micro movement, you burn a lot of stamina to fight the stacking. A smoother bow drains you less.

@@bambooarchery Speaking of string angles, kramar ammons some western archer, made a video stating shorter string angles from limb shoot faster because they have less distance from limb tip and retrack faster to brace. Is that right???

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv no, that's completely false. Shorter string and limbs simply have less mass, so shorter bows can reach higher dryfire speed. This is only useful under the context of flight archery, where you use the lightest possible arrow to get max speed. But for normal use, the opposite is true. If the arrows are reasonably heavy, such as 10gpp commonly used, then longer bows and longer string can actually be more efficient. Firstly because longer bows are smoother which increases energy storage. Secondly, if optimized in weight, then a longer limb and string can actually move more distance for same amount of limb/string travel and time, this literally means greater speed. As proof, the AF Babylon 59" is about 10fps faster than AF Tatar 49".

​@@bambooarchery there is one detail you did not fully expound on in the three part series (you did vaguely) On western bows, the recurve is rested on a circle curve and I think some of them are static tip even if they look bending. For asian bows, I just realized, the recurve is at a straight line you can measure with a protractor after looking at many of them. Lets say you have two bows and all other factors are equal and they recurve the same amount. The only difference is one bow is recurved on a curve (western style) and one is not. How would the draw force curve be different?

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv when something is short, it is less bendy. So even on a working recurve, the last few inches don't bend. Just observe where that last bending spot is and treat the length after as a rigid siyah. All other rules apply

It does depend on the size of the breast and length of the bow. For big breast + large bow, then yes. I have witnessed it being an issue/obstacle indeed.

@@bambooarchery They could wear sportsbra

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv there's gonna be a limit, i think ABC with a sportbra, absolutely fine. I had dealt with a G case and I don't think it would work.

@@bambooarchery I wonder how you bring that topic up to your feminine customers. It has to come up. unavoidable.

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv usually it's not an issue. Not all have big melons, most don't, so they never notice anything. If they have big melons, then we adjust accordingly, but it's really a very rare occurrence. Those involved will notify me that something is wrong, that the string is obstructed. Only then we figure things out.

Watch Armin's video for that. I won't be wasting more time on this model.

If you have specific question that I didn't address, you can also reach me on Facebook (Ronald Chong Kok Hoong, or Bamboo Archery - Malaysia) or WhatsApp (+60122669631)

Working tips have less tip mass, but due to more complicated bending profile, it is more difficult to achieve full synchronization of the two limbs, this result in more vibration. For least shock and vibration, it would seem that small rigid tip works best. The rigid tips means that the limbs are easier to achieve good sync, while small & thin profile also reduces air drag and mass. The performance is better than a large rigid tip, and a full working tip.

I never thought of airdrag being a factor for bow performance. I thought air resistance on moving limbs is such a small factor that is not measurable. I know it exist but is that even observable to say definitively yes that bow performs 1 fps faster because the tips are more narrow!

@@JonWickkk-cn1iv I believe it matters but there's no good way to prove. At the speed which the limbs are swinging, the drag would definitely account to a few percent because drag is velocity squared. The surface area of the working tip is usually double to triple compared to rigid siyahs.

@@bambooarchery Maybe a bow should be sent to ISS to do that test

When you said early models, are you referring to this carbon version (but during initial launch) or the full nylon version (that's been around for 5 years)?

ET-4 to be specific the limbs broke off completely. A friend of mine (Instructor)had a few ET-4 that he used for his beginners horse back archery course to be used by his students in Ulaanbaatar,Mongolia.The 4 broken bows were replaced by the Manufacturer.I do not know if the replacement bows were better or not.Also he had to wait a long time before he received them. Noticed later the majority of the photos from his school the bows were replaced by Alibow.

@@abeldasilva9368 yes, the ET4 version has issues. The original 18#, which actually reads 15# on my scale is ok, at least I got several years of worth. But the later version which attempts to increase the poundage, claimed 30# but I only get 22# on my scale. This heavier version is plagued with issues, could break within 1-2 weeks of use. The manufacturer didn't study the bow enough, and instead hoping that a different material will change the fate of the same design. The initial design is already flawed.

Thanks brother

You're welcomed. Would appreciate a quick review on Google review to help offset the bad people and fake reviews. You can check out the video about Fight Hate With Love. Google search for Bamboo Archery and you should find the review tab.

@@bambooarchery Did a Google search for Bamboo Archery ,and left a review of course a positive one.Took a shot at the one star rascist reviews at the same time.Thanks again for your help you are awesome don’t let these jerks push you around.We all know you are a great guy.

Can you WhatsApp me the photo of your solution +60122669631. Sometimes accidents create interesting solution.

Yes, happy to do that.

Solid, definitely solid inside. Bow is very hefty. Lots of mass.

AF makes them. The others are just rebranding/resellers.

@@bambooarchery thank you. 👍 I am quite happy with this cheap bow. Is the delamination people mention mostly due to bad stringing of the bow and shooting too light arrows or are these cheap af bows poorly made? It looks ok to me except for the arrow pass.

@@markod7662 a mix of various reasons. Case-to-case basis, you have to analyze each breakage case separately. Sometimes the bow even breaks without anyone touching the bow.

@@bambooarchery yes, i understand. wood is a natural product and quality can vary. 👍 Thanks

I don't understand

@@bambooarchery Your sweating in every video so i recommend installing air conditioning😉

@@17yearoldwarbowarcher I'm not sweating. I have glossy skin 🤣

I would like to tell you that I have this bow but being a complete novice at archery I cannot comment on performance. However, I did come up with a very successful remedy for the handle which is both very comfortable and stable (no slipping) but still allows for takedown and reassembly very easily. It is one piece, not cut in the middle. Sleeves are therefore not at all useless. If however you did not want to takedown the sleeves can still be used...one on each end meeting in the middle.

I guess you could glue each side to the middle piece and make it a 1 piece bow. Use silicon caulking or something similar in the handle to help with vibration.. I would rather have it shoot well vs be able to take it apart and not enjoying the bow.

The paint is extremely thin and is there only to make the carbon surface look even/flat black. The mass is very low (likely only 0.1gram) and should not register any difference on the chrono test. However, I prefer not to have it just because I rather see the natural color and texture of the material, even if there's any imperfect coloring on the actual material. It's more like, do you prefer with makeup or not?