Glen's Hangar is where Glen hangs out and talks about airplanes and his love of flying, while working on his Cessna 172... there will also be some flying and aviation news. #CanucksUnlimited #C-FMVU
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Thanks Glen. I own a 1957 C-172. I flew it for the better part of 500 hours in many conditions before experience vapor lock. I have experienced it twice, and both occasions with the tank on both above 5000 feet. I think you’ve given the best explanation here that I have seen. A few points to add. I could not understand the mechanism of what would cause the vapor lock and how switching to single tank operation somehow made it better. According to the folklore on the Internet, Cessna apparently tried using glass tubes to see if they could replicate the problem and supposedly could not. After some consideration, I believe that’s probably true. The fact is that glass tubing does not conduct heat nearly as well as the aluminum fuel lines do. By switching to single take operation, you are effectively doubling the fuel flow through the tubing between the fuel tank and the fuel selector, thus allowing less opportunity for fuel bubble vapors to form and if they do, flushing them out of the system quicker. Thanks for your videos and helping us fly safely!
Love to see my home town from the air ! I got a tip for you. So, you started to tell the story of when Quebec was invaded. If you want to get a feeling of what it was like, during the firework event (grand feux loto-quebec), you stand at "place de paris" (the church area where you were), and you close your eyes when its poping in the sky ! Its pretty awesome.
Very cool you took the time to attend this event! I live in Hamilton, and am blessed to have the opportunity to frequently jump up from my seat at lunch or dinner to run outside and look up at the sky 😂
Great Video again. If the problem returns and you don't think it was a plug I would recommend a borescope inspection of the cylinders to check valves and ensure no burnt or damaged exhaust valves. Sticking valves as you mentioned is also an issue and can start with intermittent stumbles. A close inspection to ensure the valves all move freely in their guides could be prudent. I don't know if you use MOGAS at all but it now appears to all have ethonal regardless of grade so unwanted moisture content in fuel is an issue. All the best and happy tailwinds.
Thanks - Chris borescopes the cylinders every time we have the plugs out. We've been watching the valves pretty closely, which led us to pulling / replacing #6 a while back. There is certainly 1 other valve that's on the concern list, but so far it hasn't been getting worse than when we first looked at it when I bought the plane.
In a previous airplane I had I had the lightspeed electronic ignition with a dynon. I kept getting a stumble it scared me since we couldn’t troubleshoot the issue all the way. Took off the lightspeed and put a mag back on and never had any issues.
I have goosebumbs from head to toe just at the thought of seeing this plane! My Dad built aircraft during the war, and instilled a love of aviation in his family. He was an Aircraft Engineer working for Air Canada for the balance of his life. He lived planes and this was a favourite! He participated in aircraft restoration after his retirement.
Hi from across the lake near Rochester! My flying journey's been on hold a long time but you're inspiring my wife and I to get back to it. Being scout leaders, we are very familiar with survival or bug out bags. Very similar contents and thinking. Your comment on maintaining your mental health is right on. I try to keep a deck of cards or something small and portable to keep things fun. Of course, food is always a winner. 2 things I'm taking away from your kit is the cup noodles and the gloves. I hadn't considered bringing cup noodles because of the volume but I'm going to look at that. The additional containers could be worth the space. I think the gloves are really smart so I'm going to add those. Love the videos, hope to meet you one of these days. Take care!
I didn’t hear what type of plug you were running. Massive electrode plugs seem to be more reliable than the fine wire. Sometimes moisture gets in front plugs and leaves carbon tracking on insulator. Make sure that’s cleaned every time you work on plugs. A minor consideration is the engine was designed for 80 octane, 100LL causes havoc in these old engines.
Lancasters just sound like freedom to me. But back in the 80s and 90s I got talking with some vets and even got to know a couple of pretty good, but I only recall one name now after so many years. I got to know a George Hutton from around Barrie Ont. area who I got to work with for several months and wish I reconnected with him later on because his advise was rock solid. I know in 90s some others thought he was as tough as nails, but he just wanted the best for everyone, but he loved a good story and laugh too. Thanks for the memories!
Interesting video. Thanks for posting. I grew up near the Oshawa airport and I recall hanging out there as a kid in the 70s and there were WW 2 tanks there, and, of course this beloved Lancaster parked there for years. Is this the same one? If not, what became of the Oshawa Lancaster?
I had a stumble on my C85. Ran great for 2 years then a stumble. I always run 1 oz Marvel Mystery Oil in 20 litres of fuel. Plugs are always clean and I check the spark plug resistance every time they are out. 500 to 5000 ohms is a good plug. I decided to try MMO in the oil. I now run with 1 oz MMO per litre of oil. Never again has it stumbled (over 100hrs). Plus I also use Phillips X/C 20W50. Great job troubleshooting!
I appreciate your content.. I do think you should frame this video from the prospective of how great it is to have logging and digital instrumentation.. The audience should understand that this is not required to solve this problem.. It’s an o-300 with a failed or fouled lower plug..
Had a similar issue and was a cracked spark plug like others have said. I did switch 4 years ago to Tempest fine wire plugs and highly recommend them. They are expensive but last much much much longer. There are so many benefits! From leaning, easier starts, no fouling, more complete ignition and more! Worth every penny!
Could the case mag be going bad or was it just plugs? We had an old case farm tractor that apparently uses the same mags as aircraft and they would occasionally go weak. My boss had a box full of them and we'd just swap them out. He had 4 brand new ones, new old stock that we weren't supposed to use plus 7 or 8 used ones. The boss figured use the old ones till they just wouldn't fire at all before using the new ones.
The remaining Case magneto is on the replace list; it keeps testing as OK, and the one that I removed tests Ok and is hanging around as a backup. I had a deal with the 'Big Magneto' player to swap a new magneto and harness free of charge for an installation video - but last minute they reneged on the deal.
The only thing more frustrating than an intermittent fault is an inconsistent intermittent fault! I just about went nuts when a major new packing machine was installed at work and every time I did the prescribed steps to start it up it did something different. The machine was new to us and new to the technicians who installed it, and three different suppliers were involved, so lots of finger pointing! There was no blood and nobody died but it took it's toll!
😂😂lol Glen makes a pretty nervous co-pilot. 😂. He'll make a pilot out you one day Jules. 😂 That Lancaster is such a beautiful old bird. I remember as a kud watching the old war movies with them in it. So cool.❤
Check dew point and temperature on day of hiccups. I have been flying since 1975 and never had Carb Ice issue. One day on a routine summer flight after bouncing cloud bottoms the 0-320 shuddered. I pulled on the carb heat and it stammered and sounded like an ice machine. I diverted to the nearest airport straight in landing as the engine quit totally. I coasted off onto the ramp and phoned for a ride home. After sitting 45 minutes it started and ran flawless.
I am not a pilot or mechanic. I don't see why airplane engines are so sensitive-fragile-trouble prone. I can understand the need for extreme safety. My 2011 Honda Odessey got 100,000 miles on the first set of spark plugs and have 60,000 miles so far on the second set. I'll remain on Terra Ferma. It's a lot less expensive.
If you upgraded to an electronic magneto system, why are you still running an antiquated magneto (Henry Ford would love it)? I’m clearly missing something here.
Piston Aircraft have two separate independent ignition systems - each cylinder has two plugs with each one being driven by a separate ignition system. If one Magneto quits you have a failsafe in that the other carries on. I switched out one of the magnetos for the electronic ignition - but left one magneto in place, since it doesn't require outside power to run. If I had switched both magnetos for an EIS I would have to instal extra backup batteries; adding weight, for very little gain.
G,day Glen from Sydney Australia. OK Would have been nice to put a borescope in the cylinder (6) and check for; * Color rings on piston head * Seating of valves and discolouration * Wearing of cross hatching on the cylinder wall. 😇🔥
We did that - but off camera. Chris had a backlog of jobs and I was trying to keep from taking too much time. He's always fine with taking the time; but I saw the planes backed up on his ramp.
An indication of a weak mixture on the new cylinder screams to me an air leak With the engine running spray carb cleaner round the new jug if you hear an increase in engine speed you have diagnosed your problem (Seating of new jug in engine casing ) ? Great video
Off Camera Chris ran all the pressure and leak tests on #6 but didn't turn up anything, we also borescoped each cylinder since we had the plugs out - agin no real change from the last time. The Lean Of Peak flight test that I flew for Savvy, indicated that #6 was running slightly lean; but still within spec / parameters. So even before Chris started working we had an indication that #6 was going to cause trouble. #6 has been a problem child right from the start.
Hi Glen! Just FYI. On my o300 I had a similar stumble that was intermittent. Eventually narrowed it down to a cracked spark plug....that would test okay....but under heat and stress every now and then would hiccup. Changed out that plug and smooth running
Thanks for the info! Chris is pretty sure that's what it is/was. He has a pressure test rig, that fires the plug at cylinder pressures - the couple of plugs we swapped out were having trouble firing at higher pressures.
I've had this with a sticking valve. If that's what it is, it will typically be also be apparent shortly after start up (rough running) and then smooth out as the engine warms up. I've chased that with one of my cylinders have it reamed twice now. Very recently I've had two occurrences of rough running at top of descent if I reduce power and rpm. Upon inspection of my engine monitor data that one cylinder clearly has a noted drop in EGT at the times it ran rough. Getting estimates on replacing/overhauling that cylinder. Nothing like a rough running engine in flight to pucker you up!
Chris has suggested a sticking valve, but he thinks it unlikely because the engine doesn't exhibit rough on startup. Having just replaced a cylinder with a stuck valve, I can see what he means.
Was it clear from the start that the stutters were a cylinder not igniting for a cycle, or was that not clear - possibly igniting at the wrong time? The simplest interpretation of "bad plug" or "bad lead" would be one that doesn't consistently spark, but Chris brought up the question of whether there might be cross issues with the leads, which would imply mis-timing. Was there anything about the conditions of the test that would have made it make sense that no stutters occurred on that flight? I don't think I understand what might have been happening, but it's great that it seems to be addressed! Looking forward to what you share from your trip to the Arctic!
The electronic ignition (I'm not an engineer or mechanic so bear with me) uses an extremely high voltage that *can* cross jump leads that are touching causing a misfiring. But based on the engine data analysis that isn't what's happening here. We also inspected all of the leads just to be sure. The weak plugs that we replaced wouldn't fire consistently at higher pressure - the high pressure found in a cylinder at the top of the stroke just before ignition. Chris has a test machine that replicates the pressure and lets you watch the plug as it fires / doesn't fire. This inconsistent fire / not fire under pressure sounds like the intermittent problem I was seeing.