Videos about rail transport by Martin Bennet - some educational stuff, and some straight-up railfan stuff! Want to help support the channel, get early access to new content and exclusive behind the scenes videos? Join me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Taitset
I used to catch the Frankston line 5 days a week for work, back then it alternated, one loop train, one direct to Flinders, it was fairly easy to just arrive a bit earlier if you wanted the other option. Now I think it sucks, none go through the loop. And by your diagrams, in the future all will be loop trains even if you don't want it. I would much prefer if they went back to an alternating system, just re-instate those track cross-overs and every second train could use the alternate, is one Frankston to the loop, the the next through the new metro tunnel, alternating with Dandenong trains doing likewise, so hence much less need for train swapping/interchange, short of going from Frankston to a station out Dandenong way.
The move they did in 2023 to remove the crossovers was called Caulfield Rationalisation (pt 1). Ostensibly, whether this is a reasonable reason or not, they were removed to improve curve radius (and speed) through the station approaches, and to air gap the new CBTC system from the legacy signalling so there was no way a future driverless train could find itself in conventional signalling land. I am also aware that deep in the depths of the DoT there are various future unfunded Caulfield rationalisations stages, including what you have shown. Kinda like sunshine with the MAR project, the ultimate configuration would be cross platform interchanges, additional platforms for future quaduplication, and an enhanced pedestrian amenity connecting Monash Caulfield all the way to the race course and eliminating road crossings for pedestrians. Whether any of those ever see the light of day is another matter entirely. This is to say, this solution is so reasonable it is a real plan. There is just no interest in making this plan. Maybe it was one of the early casualties of MMT scope cutbacks?
I grew up with the Belgrave line running right behind my home in Bayswater. I loved watching the last of the Tait and the introduction of the Harris trains, and then the flashy new 'Hitachi' sets! Thanks for the memories.
This seems as good as any way to fix the interchange problem at Caulfield, but it only solves 1/2 of the problem (although it probably solves more than that, given the high percentage of city/inner suburbs workers on Melbourne trains) I'd go one further and put in more flyovers on the up side of Caulfield to allow a second cross-platform interchange at Malvern. So change the flyover/platform layout so Caulfield does the Up Dandenong-Down Frankston and Up Frankston-Down Dandenong cross-platform interchanges, then add more flyovers to allow the Up-Up and Down-Down cross-platform interchanges to take place at Malvern.
I would just flip platform 2 with platform 3. Look at the picture at 8:02 - the drawn red line would go to platform 2 instead of 0. The line that currently goes to platform 2 would go to platform 3. You would use the same flyovers as in your proposal but you don't need to add a new platform. Potentially, you don't need to modify anything of the station itself.
I like this idea as a theoretical proposal, but I wonder a little bit how the proposed new flyover would match up with the Dandenong line elevated rail over Grange Road, which starts pretty soon after crossing Queens Ave. Therefore as much as I like the idea, I think more realistic would be the construction of new ramps and stairs to help change platforms. It's frankly absurd that you still have to leave the paid area to change platforms at this station.
The act of changing at Caulfield is such an ordeal that I’m thinking of changing jobs next year to avoid doing that shit every single day twice to get to Southern Cross. Glad the VLine I’m not allowed to get on at Dandenong still runs direct to where I need to go, though.
I always enjoy this channel when it shows up in my recommendations, but it is something special to see a Public Transport RU-vid video that relates to my specific Public Transport Bugbear, which is living in Carnegie but working down the Frankston line, and inevitably *just* missing the changeover from the Up Frankston line to the Down Dandenong lines because of the 2-3 minutes it takes to walk from platform 1 to platform 4, at which point it's like "well, it's not worth waiting another ten minutes for the next train, guess i'll just walk."
Great Video - In 2009 the platform 7 to 8 interchange in Richmond was great if you wanted to go to Flinders street or the city loop. Most of the other transfers in Melbourne are very sad indeed. ( Even the tram/train interchange at Gardener< build after 2009 -, such a sad affair- spending so much money and ending up with such a crappy interchange )
You cant fix Caulfield, but you could fix Malvern. In fact, you could probably shut that station down whilst doing the required work. Build the new station adjacent to the shopping mall, coincide the change with a massive redevelopment of the shopping mall over the top. You could get rid of the next station in the process. Convert 2 to 1.
Why doesn’t the dept of transport employ people like you? This type of modification has been needed for decades (having done that interchange many times myself) and it’s pretty pathetic that they don’t have a solution like this well underway given the metro tunnel’s impending opening
I feel like the only option they'd ever go for is simply flipping the up and down franga line to give the inbound passengers the interchange given itd be easier. Who knows though
Love this video. My feeling is that the station may end up demolished and rebuilt (and perhaps a road or two maybe closed) as I could see them trying to integrate the station with the Monash Uni campus but I love your thought process. While some may not like the idea of demolition, if a master plan was put together that allowed a more seamless integration with the Route 3 tram and buses it would be a real win for the community
There is another alternative. Leave platforms 2 and 3 alone, along with the lines on them. Build a new island platform above 2 & 3, and elevate both of the lines that presently use platforms 1 and 4 so that they serve the elevated platforms.
I have thought about this for around two years now. Improvements to the design: Have the Frankston line run on Platform 0 and 3 instead of 1&2, this removes the need for a long bridge on both sides of the station, just a small one for the Frankston Down and Dandenong group to cross. On the west end of the station, at the Metro Tunnel entrance, just shift it over a few metres so that the Caulfield Through Down and Caulfield Local Up go into the tunnel. Eventually, if Malvern-Hawksburn are de-heritage-listed, then the Dandenong group track could be completely straight from Caufield to the Metro Tunnel (bar that one kink near Toorak), allowing for much higher speeds.
I wondered about placing 3 and 4 above 1 and 2 replicating the common railway crossing project stations. While this wouldn't be as easy as cross platform it would allow for easy transfer between the lines onwards and outwards.
It would of course depend on how much, and which parts of the existing station that you wanted to keep. But my instant response would be to remove the central platforms 2 & 3. Put a new pair of tracks where they are. Build new platforms over the existing inner tracks. That would retain the overall footprint of the station. Platforms 1 and 4 would be unaltered and you would have 2 new island platforms 2 and 3.
At 6:29, it woulda been nice if there were more tracks (preferably 4) between Caulfield and Dandenong or Pakenham, so V/Line and freight don’t get stuck behind slow metropolitan trains every single damn time, but no, the government just had to continue sticking with two tracks and two signalling systems (CBTC only between South Yarra and Clayton) on that line, did they?
gonna go out on a limb here and say DOT are expecting Franga folk to use SRL and board at Clayton with no intention of providing a service as simple and easy of that which you have presented here.
Slightly off topic, but do we also need a VLine passing loop somewhere between Caulfield and Dandenong…? It seems those express diesel services get stuck in walking mode hemmed between PAK and CRA trains as it is now
Honestly, having 4 tracks is much better than 3, so services in both directions don’t get delayed by metropolitan trains every single time of the work week and weekends
I went to the open day at Anzac station last weekend, and asked a senior project manager about the static signs on the station walls showing the Metro tunnel route and all stations (Anzac > *Malvern* > Caulfield > Carnegie etc.). He confirmed that yes, all Metro tunnel services would be stopping at Malvern full-time, to provide an easier interchange and alleviate congestion at Caulfield.
11:40 That Hitachi (?) on the right is showing 'Leawarra' on it's destination roll. I didn't think the Stony Point Line was electrified at any stage. ❔
The destination rolls almost always included a number of hypothetical destinations for possible future extensions - off the top of my head the Hitachis also had Baxter, Coldstream, East Doncaster, Melbourne Airport.. also South Morang, which was a rare one which actually got used! Some drivers would set these destinations when stabling their train in the yard just for fun, so it was moderately common to see them.
Doing all that work for better inter-connectivity just doesn't seem plausible in anyway i look at it. You lead by talking about the current transfer time between platforms and i agree the at the moment it isnt great, but i think there's a easier option that still will improve things without all the work. Using the Space in between the Island platform and 1 and 4 respectively, bring the outside tracks in closer allowing you to widen platforms 1 and 4. With this new space, create a new ramp down into the underpass, allowing people to stay touched on and not walk as far. And i would also cram in an elevator somewhere as the current ramp grade is steep by todays standards
There's a third place with cross-platform transfers in Sydney, at Central. (some of) the suburban platforms are arranged in a way that makes it easy for passengers to transfer from the T1/T9 to the T2/T3/T8 (via Sydenham, not via the Airport line). This means that passengers coming from the western and northern suburbs can easily get to the eastern side of the CBD, and people from the south west can also easily transfer for trains towards the north shore.
