Yes, that used to happen to me from 1980-83 when I boarded a train at Glenferrie after school. Back then the train displayed "Flinders Street, Spencer Street, St Albans or City Loop" and I was never really sure whether it would stop at Burnley. A lot of the time it went express from Glenferrie to Richmond and I'd have to get a Glen Waverley train back to Burnley and I'd miss 'Skippy' on Ch 9.
I don’t think I’ve ever been on an express train that I can remember any way, I have dozed off on one ore two occasions on Melbourne tedious slow rail travel and found myself at either the end of the line or many stations past my stop😀. But it’s all part of the Melbourne rail experience lol.
I really think we should split the metro and suburban trains up. Then the suburban trains could always run express, while the metro trains don't go out to the ends of the line. Run them in different livery with different line names, and eventually using lighter rolling stock with fewer seats for the metro. Far less likely to mix up your trip.
Even if the express to Heidelberg is only 5 minutes faster, the psychological benefit makes it feel like 20 minutes. Boarding one of those trains makes you feel like a king. 👑
@@caramelldansen2204In the video he explained that more local trains are used, so there is no sacrifice. I also assume that railway management know more than I in assessing the trade-offs. Also I’ve seen trains get cancelled to recover the system after “police actions”.
@@74_pelicans Well I am 175cm and I don't have a problem but really tall people probably do like they do with cars and beds! I must look at the doors next time i use one as they confused me yet.
I use both Frankston and Pakenham/Cranbourne on the Caufield - South Yarra stretch regularly, and while switching to an express is nice, i never do it in the morning since at the end of the day, the difference seriously is less than 3 minutes. And if you miss an HCMT, even with their morning time-tables its not actually gonna save you any time.
sucks how long the walk from platform 1 to platform 3 is, I've missed the immediate connection several times but the lucky bastards on pakenham/cranbourne seem to have a train every 3 or 4 minutes during peak
As a Burnley Group user of many years who studied at Glenferrie and lived past Ringwood, one had to be intimately familiar with the myriad of express service patterns. There is still no great feeling than a Box Hill-Richmond express though.
Only a single service in evening peak I believe, but the true king of Burnley group expresses was Richmond - box Hill - Blackburn - Mitcham - Ringwood express.
Back in the 80s when I was commuting from the Belgrave line to Glenferrie to school, I remember one extra special Blackburn - Richmond express: now that was a good one! I've not lived in Melbourne for many years, but each time I return I feel there are fewer expresses and the trip to the CBD seems to take forever.
One downside to the express patterns on the Werribee is that late evening and weekends when frequency is low enough they run every train through Altona. It adds a significant amount of time to weekend travel for anyone past Laverton who'd normally get an express. Of course the real problem with that is the weekend frequencies on that line are terrible enough to allow it.
As a Werribee line user can second this, crossing over at Westona adds a fair bit of time to it too. You've always got to make sure you leave the city at the right time on weekdays too because after I think 7pm it goes back to stops all.
Werribee trains should be express from North Melbourne to Footscray to Newport to Laverton for as much as the day and night as possible. You don't need Melbourne Metro 2 to do this. More train drivers and increased frequencies are required. Apparently when Melbourne Metro 1 opens all frequencies across lines should be increased, so hopefully no more 20 to 30 minute waits in the day or early mornings or evenings!
This is why at this point we need actual skyrail out on the Altona Loop. because we aren't getting duplication any other way as the corridor isn't easy. The worst part is, as an Altona North commuter, it's more viable to use Altona than Newport due to bus timetabling (Two buses per hour from Altona + 411 and 412 supplimentries vs. a single one every hour and a half from Newport approximately) Edit: The bus timetables I was reciting are the abysmal weekend ones. Still is much better to go to Altona on a weekday, 15 minute wait at most for a 903 vs an up to 30 minute SCHEDULED wait for a 432, which are also *notorious* for being late, known to any Bayside student unlucky enough to have to catch it
Back in the 80s, when nearly every train from Hurstbridge ran express, drivers going to the city would get excited, and there would be an enormous jolt just after Victoria Park where the track alignment changed.
Your videos are thoughtful and interesting. I enjoyed the joke about the South Kensington station "known for its aesthetic appeal and extensive passenger facilities" lol, and liked the detail you included of the South Kensington UK station billboard inviting passengers to "subscribe to Taitset". Very thoughtful and clever.
If I'm not in a hurry in the afternoon, I’ll catch a Blackburn train from Flinders St, with a seat (or four) to myself and watch the standing-room only express trains zoom past, then change to a Lilydale train at Laburnum.
I used to do this after school, me and my friends would catch the train from Glenferrie stopping all stations to Blackburn rather than the express so we had more time to hang out lol
My usual commute from Box Hill usually begins around 8-9am, and there’s maybe 4 different types of local and express services that run during this period. The feeling of accidently getting on a Box Hill - Union - Richmond express is unlike no other. Even though I save maybe only a couple of minutes, speeding past Camberwell and Glenferrie and watching people gleam sadly in, is a great way to start my mornings 😂
There is also a train leaving box hill somewhere between 8am and 9am from memory running against the peak hour direction of travel and it runs express box hill to Ringwood.
There are some express trains in the evening that do the same. I thought it would have been a better idea to run the stopping all trains to Blackburn and run more express trains directly to Ringwood. It’s always nicer to get home quicker in the evenings to either enjoy daylight savings or to get home early in the miserable winter weather.
It's always amused me that Perth is the only Aussie city with discrete and consistently labelled express patterns (C, W, K,etc stopping patterns) despite being the city that needs them the least, given that Transperth has been simplifying operations around all-stops patterns where possible. Meanwhile Melbourne has so many and they're usually just labelled "Express" and you have to check the displays and announcements to confirm exactly which stations will be stopped at.
Laverton to Newport express feels sooooo good. Whenever Im forced to crawl through Altona outside of peak or on the weekend I can't help feeling a little bitter, spending the time dreaming of potential solutions. My father actually goes as far as flatly refusing to take the SAS through Altona, preferring to drive to Newport station when going to the footy.
I enjoy getting on at Altona bc I'm not the biggest fan of Newport but I love taking the express line between Laverton and Newport when I have to do stuff that requires me to take said express, it's rare and I love it
It's good you mentioned the passenger impact as well. It might not save a heap of time, but for passengers it probably makes them feel they're saving a heap of time which is important in any case as perception can make a big difference. I was actually surprised to see how little time they actually often save.
Meanwhile my country decided not to have express service for a new train line as it calculated that too few people would save at least 15min with them (out of ~1h total travelling time from 1 end of the line to the other), which seems like a significantly stricter standard. All our other existing train lines have only local service (with stations ~1-2km apart usually) which is a problem on some newer train lines that serve the more peripheral areas (as the core areas were already served by lines built earlier), as stations in those areas have less people boarding & alighting there, so most passengers end up having their time wasted there when trains stop there. Our 2nd rail link to the airport will also have this problem, so it will not be much faster than our existing 1st rail link
Your next service to departing platform 1 will be the 7:20 New years eve running express from This Great Video to 2024 then stopping all stations for the rest of the year. You never fail to impress. This was a great and informative video just like all the other ones. Anyway Happy New Year.
Kind of late but I'm still blown away with all the breakdowns of even the smallest details which makes me come back to watch your videos, even the ones I've already seen. Your description of Melbourne's triple track sections fascinated that concept in me, both because I think it's more unique than typical double or quad track lines, but also because of their added flexibility over double track lines. Job well done, Martin. 👍
It's crazy that Melbourne has this massive complicated system of express trains in one form or another on almost all lines meanwhile in Perth our last express pattern was removed last month and all trains now stop at all stations at all times unless there are some special events.
@@yukko_parra Sydney isnt too bad but you do need to look at the timetable and figure it out but once you do it becomes easier. Its only really the Western and Northern Lines that get messy because you've effectively got trains occupying the entire lines roughly every 5-10 mins (much higher than Melbourne) while the others have a much more predictable timetable and pattern (for example, Bankstown Line expresses always start and end at Liverpool while the all stations always start and end at Lidcombe and the T8 expresses always start and end at Macarthur while the all stops always start and end at Revesby).
Perth suburban seems to be double track (pretty much) throughout. The trouble with the Hurstbridge trains running express between Jolimont and Clifton Hill is that it restricts how frequently trains on the Mernda line can run. But perhaps stopping these trains at North Richmond as well as Victoria Park would attract more passengers by making it easier to interchange with tram routes 12 and 109. As more of the Hurstbridge line is duplicated, there should be fewer express services and more of a focus on frequency and capacity and hopefully more level crossing removals.
During weekdays on the Belgrave line, there is one particular service which leaves Flinders Street towards Belgrave at around 9:12am that also skips stations east of Ringwood, which you will never see on any other services on that line.
Re. the removal of crossovers at Caulfield, a key reason the Caulfield rationalisation works were performed (and why they were performed now, by the RNA, before the opening of the metro tunnel) is the introduction of CBTC signalling on one track pair but not the other introduced an operational conflict. Now that they're using two different safeworking technologies, everything running properly no train will ever switch from one track pair to the other. The incompatability of the rest of the network nullifies the operational flexibility the crossovers could afford. Removing them improved the linespeed of the junction and reduced a number of potential fail states (or worst case - operational mistakes where the wrong train goes onto the wrong line!)
The two systems aren't actually incompatible though, and trains can obviously move between CBTC and non-CBTC controlled areas. Improvements to the line speed etc could have been done by relocating them. I really think they should have retained some just for emergency use - even if just to keep the freight moving and retain access to Westall/Pakenham East during major occupations.
@@TaitsetI am pretty sure that the crossovers at Caulfield were used during a disruption as recently as late 2022 when an HCMT had a fault at south Yarra, requiring all trains to run on the through lines. This also Lead to the unique sight of HCMTs running on the local line. I get that post metro tunnel the crossovers would have been useless for Dandenong trains but I still think that the flexibility they would have still provided for Frankston, VLine and freight trains would have made them worth retaining.
Great video. One thing interesting to note about the triple track is that historically, it was convenient as trains could be stored at jolimont after their citybound express runs, allowing all 3 tracks to run at full capacity, but nowadays, without that stabling, the peak direction local/express lines can only ever run at half capacity. I’m still hopeful that one day my local Belgrave lilydale line gets quadruplicated but I don’t know how justified that would be!
The drawback of a lot of the level crossing removals is that they tend to make it much harder to add a 3rd track, which would really benefit a lot of the network, especially as the metro lines get extended out further and further and both travel times and overcrowding becomes more of an issue. Whilst they provide a lot of benefit regardless, it would've be nice if there was more forethought of how the projects will affect future rail & road upgrades. The Mernda line doesn't have any express trains in the peek direction during peek times and there are large sections of unused land throughout most of the rail corridor, which would have been perfect for adding a 3rd track between about Merri & Lalor stations up until the level crossing removals in Preston & at Reservoir & Keon Park stations in recent years. Now adding a 3rd track would be a lot more difficult.
The Mernda line definitely is a good choice for express running from Clifton Hill to Preston or Reservoir especially as the line is so long and serves growth areas in Whittlesea. Unfortunately the recent level crossing removals as you say have not really allowed room for additional tracks.
@@Lion366 as a Cranpak user it really pained me to see the 3rd platform at oakleigh get removed when they rebuilt the station after skyrail. Out of all the train lines, the Pakenham line needs an express service the most - next year it's going to get ANOTHER station, making it almost 60k to Flinders Street
Since the 28th may timetable update, morning peak Mernda services run express from Victoria Park to Jolimont instead of hurstbridge trains to balance loading between the two lines
@@Lion366 I agree. Adding a 3rd track between Clifton Hill & Merri would be a little difficult though since there are so many bridges (over Hoddle Street, Merri Pde & Merri Creek). That is why I thought it would've been more logical to do it from Merri station onwards and have them run express from there as I don't remember any graded crossings (road or river) after that, apart from the aforementioned recent level crossing removals.
@@aquacactuscheeseburger I guess that is a step in the right direction, but as the video mentioned, it probably won't save much in travel time due to how close the trains run to each other. Personally I think they should have all trains during both peek times stop at Clifton Hill & Jolimont and then have every train stop every second station between those two so that way they don't have to worry about 'catching up' to the train in front of them. That would improve travel speed for almost everyone and help reduce overcrowding due to it allowing more trains to get through per hour.
Well I'll be! Caught that very same "Limited Express" from Flinders Street to GRN yesterday! No great saving in time but it did feel good. What really struck me though, was how bad the down track is as far as Rosanna - like being tossed at sea in a small boat!
tendency to remove crossovers which reduce flexibility, probably as a cost cutting measure. On the Glen Waverley line, the weed spraying train sprayed to GW then crossed over to the other track with a light engine that followed the train. Now HiRail trucks are used. In the late ‘70s, I recall a train hit a car at Parkdale, several trains then used wrong line running with a pilotman. At Cheltenham, the down train crossed over the up tracks and ran the wrong line stopping at Mentone and Parkdale to Modialloc crossing to the down line. They can’t do this now and prefer to stop everything and use buses. A motorist gets hit by a train but the delayed passengers say “Bloody railways”.
Sydney did the same stupid thing years ago and its made delays worse; there used to be three sets of crossovers on the six tracks between Strathfield and Redfern: one just before Strathfield station, one in between Ashfield and Summer Hill stations, and one before Redfern station. When they removed the middle set, it only left the ones at Strathfield and Redfern as overtaking/flexible points meaning if a train breaks down in the suburban pair (the busiest pair) then trains behind it are stuck unless they are yet to approach Redfern or Strathfield. They removed that middle crossover set to to save on cost (maintenance) but I think to also simplify the timetable (theres a rule in Sydney/NSW Trains controlled lines that a crossover must be used at least once every 24 hours to keep it certified as usable, otherwise it will have to be inspected manually and a train tabled to run over it before it can be cleared for use again).
Great video! I use the frankston line expresses frequently, and blasting through the suburbs on the brand new silky smooth track certainly is a nice feeling! Looking forward to the metro tunnel opening so we can finally get back into the city loop 😁
11:17 The Feel-Good element also applies to Caltrain in the San Francisco Bay Area, where the Baby Bullet express trains gave passengers the satisfaction of bypassing most stations on the line, and to a smaller extent, the Limited trains.
The shame is that while Box Hill was built with four platforms in 1985, the new Union station was tragically and shortsightedly only built with three platforms making any future quadruple tracks very expensive indeed. Also in Australia I think Sydney provides the best express experience between Strathfield and Redfern where you can be passing the local while a Blue Mountains train passes you!
You can kinda do that on the Werribee line too - except you can't see the Altona Loop trains you're passing. You sure can see what's on the standard gauge line alongside it though, usually freight.
There is a fourth platform at Box Hill. It just doesn’t have a track serving it. They are talking about using it as part of a cycle track running alongside the railway. A tunnel underneath Box Hill.
Express from Central to Strathfield can be unbelievably fast , from there , the express run to Epping can be just as satisfying , depending on signalling for trackwork etc . From Epping , it is a breeze to Castle Hill on the Metro ! 10 minutes approx . As another correspondent mentioned , you do need to be alert to approaching your destination ! ( Blink and you miss it ) !
The nice thing about express trains if you are standing up is a prolonged stretch where no other passengers are shuffling past you. It’s also clear you aren’t yet at your stop, without looking up! Making express trains more a peaceful journey.
The expresses on the Mernda are my favorite. I live in Abbotsford but work up in Epping currently, and it is SO satisfying when my work schedule lines up with the express. Train is always empty and I have time to stop for coffee once I'm off :')
The true advantage of express trains is filling a train to go further down the line and not having the train get filled with passengers for earlier stations. I was typing this when you said exactly the same thing. Nice.
I'm glad you mentioned VLine. I used to live in Moe and work in Melbourne CBD and the timetabling fragility of the long double-only track from Pakenham to Caulfield meant the supposed express running VLine service would get stuck behind a local Metro train. It was uncommon for early morning trains to arrive on time at Flinders Street. That sounds like a great case for triple tracking (at least) that line if the State Government wants the Latrobe Valley to be the next commuter belt region.
Yes definitely, it's a big problem that Gippsland line trains can't overtake along there, and would certainly be a good spot for triple track. Unfortunately the way the skyrail has been designed probably makes it almost impossible now. I have once seen a Gippsland train overtake a suburban train though the third platform at Westall, but you can't really do it on the fly and the suburban train does get delayed by a minute or two.
@@Taitset "...the way the skyrail has been designed probably makes it almost impossible now." I heard that the sky rail project did make provision for a third-and I think fourth-track in that section. By simply determining which properties would have to be acquired to achieve it!
I kind of like the idea of alternating stations within the metro area where trains are frequent e.g. one every 3 or 4 minutes following two patterns. Pattern A stops at all major stations and A minor stations (express through B minor stations), while B does all majors and B minors (skipping A minor). Given the frequency and short distance between stations, with the opposite direction doing all stations services at a 5 or 10 min frequency, this should minimise the wait times like on the V Line issue you mentioned (which only affects like 5% of the passengers anyways).
I agree. I can also add that whilst I'm sure it happens in some situations, I highly doubt many passengers are traveling from Corio Station to North Shore Station (the example in the video) for several reasons. Firstly, Corio station is notoriously hard to get to as a pedestrian (it is in the middle of nothing & has no footpath for a decent section of it, high grass, no street lighting & cars traveling 80km/h on the road) & has no bus services, so almost all passengers drive there or get dropped off. Therefore, they could easily get dropped off at North Shore station instead. Secondly, even if there was a pedestrian wanting to do that, the closest residential area of Corio to Corio station is only about 20 minutes walk to North Shore station, compared to about 10 minutes to get to Corio station, so it would make more sense just to walk there by the time you count the cost of the ticket, waiting for a train etc. Thirdly, both North Shore & Corio are primarily residential & industrial areas (except for Corio Village, which is not near Corio station and actually has a bus service to North Shore station), so the chances of people needing to go from one to the other are quite minimal.
@@iainhughes4630yeah, you’re probably right. I remember looking at it on google maps years ago and being impressed at how quickly the 4 tracks merged into two. You can still see it on google earth today.
I recall two incidents from many years ago involving unusual express services. One was a down train to Lilydale on a Saturday afternoon that connected with the service to Healesville, and ran express something like Richmond to Camberwell to Box Hill to Ringwood. Approaching Nunawading, a family left their seats and went to a door to get off there, only to see their station go flying past. When suburban trains started running the Warragul service, one of the trains ran direct from Flinders Street to Richmond, then express to Caulfield, then Dandenong (where I got off, so I don't recall where it stopped after that). Three stops to Dandenong! Anyway, one day the train was altered to depart from platform 10, where the Sandringham trains left from. I alighted at Dandenong behind an elderly gentleman who went straight to the station staff to ask them how to get back to civilisation, as he thought he was on a Sandringham train!
The Burnley Group timetable is wayy too confusing, as there are just too many stopping patterns. They should have a standardised express service like Richmond, Glenferrie, Camberwell, Box Hill then all stations.
In my experience most of the express trains are exactly that! It's only some of them that get a bit goofy during peak times lol. I love the flexibility of the 3 track system
I haven’t checked recently but the express train that went to Lilydale then proceeded to Warburton hauled by locomotive. When the Warburton line closed, a train with the same stopping pattern ran to Lilydale for years.
I really loved the express train patterns in Japan, with trains are positioned to catch up to a local train just in time for the next quadruple-tracked station where they can overtake.
Before the 28th may timetable changes, some Mernda line counter-peak expresses were also due to the fact that there wasn't enough power for multiple trains to accelerate from a standstill in the same section. So if the express trains stopped, they wouldn't be able to start again because the peak direction was using most of the power. Thats why they built the Ruthven substation.
9:18 great sarcasm 😂 however, as you know South Kensington used to be beautiful, but then the government came along and in 2009 demolished the station building and tore down all the trees
Love the little Easter egg "subscribe" banner in the London Underground, nicely integrated! There's a few other examples of the "doubling back" for expresses near Caulfield, if I recall, particularly from Armadale. Surrey Hills as an express is also an interesting express service, as it is often very crowded, but super fast in peak times due to how long people take to move off the train at an all station stop. I used to see the express train times way faster than an all station due to this phenomenon.
I used to catch the Broadmeadows line to get to school. On of the school kids jumped from a moving red rattler because is ran express though the station that he wanted to get off at. He wasn’t seriously hurt.
10:59: I think it helps people not familiar with the area to understand why they're not passing through the stations they're skipping on the express train. as someone who counts stations until my stop in unfamiliar territory, it certainly would help me!
I used to live on the Werribee line, I remember one time the trian was so late/delayed they changed it to run express to Newport 😂 it was such a good feeling but felt bad for everyone that had to wait for new service
The feeling of rushing into the first train at flinders street due to pressure of the blue box filling up and leaving “NOW” alert, then my heart sinking as I fly past Westgarth and understand that I now have to brave Ivanhoe and do the whole thing again, thus taking longer than waiting at flinders street for a non-express train.
A note about triple track on the Burnley Group, off peak and on weekends the Centre Line is generally used as the down line, rather than the Down Line itself as most stations have an island platform between the Up and Centre Lines. The only exceptions are Hawthorn and the former Mont Albert stations. Hawthorn's reasoning for having a different platform arrangement I believe was the Kew Line.
"Hawthorn's reasoning for having a different platform arrangement I believe was the Kew Line." Correct, but in the sense that because of the Kew line, it had three platforms before the line was triplicated. The third platform was provided in 1890, the Kew line closed in 1957, and triplication between Hawthorn and Camberwell happened in 1973.
I remember clearly as a boy, catching the express trains from Bayswater ,was a single station then to Ringwood and the express to Box hill, Camberwell Richmond Flinders Street. This would have been in the late sixties.....however all stations to Box Hill then Camberwell and Richmond were more common . The trains from Lilydale were usually stopping all stations, which saw an influx of people changing trains at Ringwood or Box Hill.
man, the old Comeng Alstom refurb livery was so much better than the yellow brick, i really wish they would restore it since they'll be sticking around longer than the EDIs
In the 80s, trains didn't ever seem to run express through Ivanhoe, even outside of peak times. I used to wonder if the schools were really that important; when I was in Year 12, and had to be at school early or late on many occasions, I was very grateful for this quirk of timetabling. Looks like that's still the case today.
The Hurstbridge line's principle of splitting the line into an "inner" section served by local trains and an "outer" section served by express trains during the peaks is the same principle for how express trains work on the two main lines in Wellington NZ - on the Hutt Line you have a very clear-cut peak-time pattern of local services to Taita stopping all stations (except for the desolate and therefore very lightly-used Ngauranga station, which is served by Melling trains during peak times), and express services to Upper Hutt running express to Taita (except for the major hub station of Waterloo, which interchanges with most of the bus services in Lower Hutt - I will NEVER call it "Hutt Central" even if Metlink held my family hostage) and then all stations to Upper Hutt (and vice versa for the morning peak). On the Kapiti Line it's a bit more complicated. The general peak-time pattern is similar - local services to Porirua stopping all stations and express services to Waikanae running express to Porirua and stopping all stations from there running all the way out to Waikanae - and that's largely what it is in the evening peak, but in the morning peak there are also a few local services to Wellington which start a bit further up at Plimmerton rather than Porirua. Plimmerton station is currently being upgraded with a third platform and a turnback siding to allow more local trains to terminate/start from there, so in the near-future we'll likely see a lot of the local trains running a bit further out to Plimmerton rather than Porirua in the evening peak. But yeah, the purpose of express trains in Wellington is basically the same as the Hurstbridge line - local services designed for commuters from the inner parts of the line, and express services designed to serve those living further afield who benefit from not being crowded out by passengers from the inner part of the line. It's more about spreading the load rather than strictly time-saving.
Another great video as always. One of my favourite express services is the one that runs express from flinders street all the way to Cranbourne in the morning. I know it’s so it can get Cranbourne to run another peak up service as soon as possible but I just find it amusing looking at the display and seeing the entire line greyed out.
@@Taitset After looking at the timetable, it looks like it has actually been changed to stop at Caulfield, Oakleigh and then stops all stations after Clayton. I guess it makes sense considering an express from flinders street to Cranbourne probably wasn’t very useful to most people.
On a Vline express one day, I was going to Bendigo. As the train approached Sunbury, someone got up to get off, not realising the train ran express all the way to Castlemaine. Added a good 3 hours to his trip
9:02 There is a Crossover before South Kensington. So Sunbury trains can stop at South Kensington and after departing there is a cross over back on the Sunbury Line. Also the RRL has a crossover aswell.
I live in Frankston the suburban line with the most stations. Never get express trains except in peak times when I don’t travel. It’s tempting to get off at Caulfield and swap to the Cranbourne/Pakenham lines to the city
The Mernda line recently got peak hour expresses from Victoria Park to Jolimont. They always get stuck behind a Hurstbridge stopper and take longer than the stopping trains on the old timetable, even though they rarely have to wait at the Clifton Hill junction anymore...
I still don't understand why they pulled out the 3rd track at Oakleigh. I would have thought it would have made more sense to make more of the line triple track rather than less of it.
The skyrail between Oakleigh and Caulfield should have been 3 tracks enabling a dedicated express track. And with crossovers at Caulfield there could be express tracks to and from Richmond too. The Frankston and Dandenong stopping all stations share platforms freeing up express tracks.
Back in the 80s, on the Burnley line Weekday Lilydale & Belgrave trains would run either Express from Richmond to Glenferrie, then Camberwell then all stations or Express from Richmond to Camberwell then to Box Hill then all stations. From memory in afternoon peak hour Upper Ferntree Gully trains would run express from Richmond to Camberwell, then Box Hill then Ringwood then all stations. Mooroolbark trains did a similar thing back then. I'm not sure how much has changed since then?
i was surprised to see i boarded an express to glen waverley thinking i would get there 15 minutes earlier until i found myself stuck at 30kmph behind a stopping train
Not much experience as I don’t live in Melbum but catching an express from Dandenong one morning was a good stroke of luck, was travelling with my toddler so getting into the city that bit quicker was a bonus. Some months later I caught an express from Flinders to Werribee, that was a bit of false advertising as it only ran express from Newport and all in all wasn’t that much quicker as we had to wait for the train ahead to clear its stops. Back in the days of yore we lucked getting express trains between Central to Penrith with the latter being the 4th stop, while it wasn’t super quick there was a definite time saving. Melbum should look into doing something like Lilydale all stops to Ringworm or Boxhill then nonstop to Flinders - just as an example
I remember when they ran Comeng trains all the way to Warragul (before the wires were removed). You could catch those trains in Dandenong and it ran express to the city, with only a few stops at the “important” stations on the route. From memory there were only a few of services each day.
There is a Dandenong Train that run from Pakenham to Dandenong running express from Dandenong to Noble Park stopping all station to Springvale running express from Springvale to Clayton then stopping all station Caulfield running express from Caulfield to South Yarra then stopping all station to Flinders Street at around 8:31am
6:21 I’d also argue that freight trains could also run in the centre line while passenger services overtake it on the outer lines, especially when the freight requires to wait at the end of the section.
I think we should add a proper Metro to Melbourne. On the Dandenong / Frankston line it could run out to Caulfield, and convert the current trains to a suburban train running express between Richmond and Caulfield then out to Caulfield / Frankston / Cranbourne. Metro could use lighter rolling stock with more doors and fewer seats, while the new suburban could have more and more comfortable seats, with fewer doors. I'd suggest running the Metro out to Oakleigh or all the way to Monash Uni but the (IMHO too expensive and short sighted) level crossing removal project has made that extremely difficult.
There was also expresses on the Glen Waverly line that weren’t in the timetable but regularly ran express Richmond-Kooyong-Gardiner-Holesglen-Glen Waverly in the mornings.
Transperth express trains often feel a little pointless, as there's only two tracks on every line, and they never cross over, so they function like the Hurstbridge express, although they never quite catch up to the normal trains running ahead of them.
That’s great stuff Martin, I really enjoy opening up RU-vid in the morning to see that you’ve released a new video about something in Melbourne. I do think that removing those points in at Caulfield aren’t a great thing to do but they have done it for a reason, as the new signalling system being used for the metro tunnel is currently being run between south Yarra and Clayton, which means that the trains are actually using different signalling methods on the same quad track section.
Thankyou, glad you're enjoying the videos! A few people have mentioned that, but it's certainly possible to run trains between the CBTC and non-CBTC sections - I'm not sure exactly what it would have taken to make it work at Caulfield, but there must be a way.
@@Taitset There is a way to do it but it would require longer idle times on the platform. There could be a way to work it into the timetable but it isn’t used in regular operations anyways so I think it is a good thing to incorporate.
Where the CBTC signalling exists outside the new tunnel, trains can run under either mode. V/Line and goods trains run on the same tracks but do not use CBTC. To switch a train from one mode to the other, the train needs to stop, but they stop at Caulfield in any case.
Excellent video, although I am personally biased because the analysis you conduct starting at 1:22 I used to conduct regularly on the Glen Waverley line (again, personally biased) starting around 1980 (thru about 1991, when I left Melbourne for San Diego). In the day, I lamented that my daily weekday destination, Kooyong, never benefited from an express service as the 4, maybe 5, peak morning express trains ran Darling-Burnley (and I think for a few years ran even Darling-Richmond, probably to punish poor East Richmond which was often skipped by the Lilydale/Belgrave lines, even when they stopped at EVERY other station on the line). However, just those few station skipped between Darling and Burnley (or Richmond) saved, maybe, 8 minutes. Of course, in the frantic rat race of a Monday morning, 8 minutes can seem enormous. Incidentally, the Glen Waverley line lacks the infrastructure to run express trains more often as, really, unlike say the Ringwood line, I don't think there is anywhere trains can pass other trains. I think there is a shunt near Darling - and of course Glen Waverly has two platforms and a little yard of sorts - but there is only a single track each each way from Glen Waverley to Burnley. Finally, I recall in the day there being what I call a Grand Express train once a day on a weekday around 5pm from Glen Waverley to Flinders St. stopping NO stations. With each new publication of the timetable in the 1980's, I eagerly scoured my new copy of the schedule to see if the service was retained. Sometimes it was, sometimes it went a couple of quarters without appearing on the timetable (though I suspected it ran anyway to send trains to the city). I wonder if it still exists... or has recently... ty again for the great vid.
The other interesting thing with the werribee line is, they only run express trains in day light hours Monday to Friday. Express from Laverton to Newport, Newport to Footscray, Footscray to North Melbourne then stopping all stations. The Laverton train which runs via the Altona loop stops all stations. The express route between Laverton and Newport also doesn't operate weekends with the all stopping werribee train running via Altona.
The ongoing headache that is the Darling-Richmond and Richmond-Darling express trains (one each way) in the evening cannot be overstated, constant complaints for the toorak locals that dont read the pids before boarding.....
Triple and quadruplication is something I believe the Level Crossing Removal Project has really missed. Adding an extra track for V-Line, freight and express trains is something Sydney has done quite well. Six tracks to Parramatta and large amounts of quadrupled lines allow for frequent intercity, XPT trains as well as more express services for outer lines like Penrith and Richmond.
"Triple and quadruplication is something I believe the Level Crossing Removal Project has really missed." Its brief was to eliminate the level crossings, nothing more. And so they didn't do more.
I find it interesting to be able to learn about other rail systems. Living on the Hunter Line, (The northern most line on the NSW Trainlink Network) Express trains are pretty easy to run considering trains are about half an hour apart and expresses only skip five stations. And there's still space for the occasional trains going to places like Dungog or Scone. And the Central Coast and Newcastle Line with trains also half an hour apart manages express trains that skip a total of 19 stations, (44 if you count the suburban stations that all CCN trains skip) shaving 30 minutes off a 3 hour journey!
