Great review! Couple of questions regarding comparison between the V1 and the OC1: 1. How much more leg drive can you get in the v1 seat? Would you say it's in a more ergonomically favourable position to generate power? (Compared to oc1) 2. How would you compare the speed of the v1 vs oc1 in the flat? Do you find you achieve more glide and faster speeds due to the narrower and longer hull? (Taking out energy for corrective strokes, of course!) Thanks!
1. Yes, I feel like I can use my legs more in the V1 compared to the OC1. The carbon fiber V1 is similar to paddling in an unlimited OC6 due to the adjustable footplate. The outrigger zone manufactured Fai Va’a 4SI has an adjustable foot plate (with built in foot operated bilge pump). This foot plate allows the paddler to use their legs much more than an OC1. The geometry of the seat and footplate is more like paddling an in an OC6. I really like that about the V1. 2. Regarding paddling in the flats… the V1 is arguably faster in the flat water compared to an OC1. I think this is due to the longer water line in the V1, the flatter rocker, and not having the drag of a rudder. This is highly dependent on the skill of the V1 paddler of course. If I could clone myself and have one version of me in an OC1 and the other version of me in a V1… I believe I am already faster in the V1 in flat water. And this is after paddling a V1 for just under 600 miles to date. As for ocean paddling and downwind runs I am not very fast in the V1 (yet 😀). Finally, I was drawn to the V1 because I really wanted to learn to paddle steer, I wanted to use my legs more like I did in the OC6, I like the link to traditional Polynesian paddling, and I love the feeling of the glide of the V1 not having a rudder. Have you paddled a V1? Would love to hear your thoughts.
@@barryblackburn5910 Hi Barry, Thank you for the detailed response! I've been a fan of The Paddle Channel for some time now. Your videos and articles are always fantastic. I own an Ares OC1 and paddle OC6, but I've always been interested in moving into the V1. I've paddled V1 a couple of times but not enough to make a valid comparison between the two single crafts. As you mentioned, the connection to Polynesian paddling and the "glide" are two factors that draw me in as well. Additionally, I find that I generate relatively little leg drive in the OC1, especially compared to the OC6/Surfski. Your comments about the V1's footplate allowing more leg drive and biomechanically enabling you to get 'over' the stroke and apply more pressure confirm for me that I'll likely be able to apply more power to the stroke in the V1. Tai Paddles & Sonic Waka have recently released a new V1 with the option of a removable rudder, called the "Tai Manawa." This will likely be the canoe I purchase. It offers all the benefits of the V1 learning experience plus the option for a rudder for rougher days and downwinders. If you have time, I would love a more detailed article or video on your experience of moving from OC1 to V1, including key differences and learnings. The V1 scene is growing in popularity here in Sydney, Australia (and no doubt in the US as well), and informative content from experienced paddlers like yourself would be invaluable! Cheers, Charlie
@@Chunter629thank you Charlie!! You gave me some great ideas for future videos. Thanks for the support of our channel. That V1 with rudder option sounds interesting.
Do you try several of these drills in the same session, or are you supposed to get comfortable at one before moving onto the next? For instance, I'm having trouble even getting the hang of single side paddling with leg drive (& balance whilst doing it); should I spend longer on this before I progress to bar to chest?
Try out the different drills and see which one (or maybe more) resonates with you -- it's pretty common for one drill to "click", when others don't. We're working on another leg drive video with a land drill that really simplifies learning leg drive, so stay tuned for that!
I hope you can find one. I really love the V1. I am still playing with the ama settings. Even a small change in how I rig the ama really changes the balance of the boat. I’m loving the challenge.
@@chenkarpNo. You do sit higher and the V1 is more narrow than most OC1s but the V1 is longer and you can use your legs and feet more like you can in an OC6.
Sound advice. That was one of our first observations after reviewing first reviewing this footage. We now always snug the straps on the PFD before going out -- doing so doesn't decrease comfort at all. The Mocke PFD stays in place just fine if the strap are tightened properly. In truth, even with the straps loose, it would be nearly impossible to slip out of that PFD accidentally, but it does give one a heckuva chin rash if not tightened up. 😃
I love your content and that you emphasize the technical training drills. One question - I see you do not feather your paddle. Are you still doing that and what are your considerations in this regard? Best regards from Denmark 😉
We both still paddle zero feather. Rod tried feathering everywhere from 15-60 degrees for a while, but returned to 0 degrees after a few months due to wrist pain. A few reasons we stick with zero degree are: * When we were learning, a number of coaches/teachers recommended zero feather for easier bracing. Since we paddle in the ocean most of the time, that seemed like a good option. * Despite both of us having backgrounds in exercise physiology, we couldn't see that feathering really offers a true biomechanical advantage (though many very experienced paddlers would disagree). * Feathering does introduce additional movement at the wrist, and that has the potential for repetitive use injury. A good technique coach would probably mitigate that risk, but we don't have a coach here, so we just kept it simple. :) * Both of us have been pleased with our performance, both downwinding and racing, at zero degree feather. Again, there are plenty of paddlers who would disagree, but we're both happy with zero degree feather and don't have plans to change. Thanks for your kind comments!
I’m looking to try super glue on a fiberglass shower with a two inch crack. I heard if you drill small holes on either end of the crack it will stop it from cracking further (not that I would do that to my kayak). I also saw a video of a guy that super glued two small dry blocks of wood together and two slightly moist blocks together, the moist pieces dried much faster.
Much simpler than that long complicated explanation on wing tracking - let the paddle go where it wants to go. The only way a wing paddle will dive under you is if you try to force it down the side of the boat like a regular paddle. If you just pull back and don’t try to direct it along the boat, it will find the most efficient track. Very simple. Don’t have to think about propellers or wings. Just let it go where it wants. 🤷🏻♂️
Different teaching cues resonate with different individuals, so a variety of explanations can be beneficial to a variety of paddlers. Most paddlers have been conditioned all their lives to "paddle with a pull" -- place the blade and pull. We've found that simply telling a developing paddler to "let the paddle go where it wants" still results in a pull, and their habit overcomes the natural path of the wing paddle. The first step is to let go of the pull concept and realize the wing wants to travel outward, toward that leading edge. The second step is to realize the surfski stroke is a push, not a pull. And yep, after that, the wing will find its own efficient path. No doubt your succinct explanation will connect with some paddlers and cause that light bulb moment -- thanks for sharing.
Thanks for taking the time to do this test. A key takeaway, is that we need to properly identify our needs, training, and possible improvement curve over time. As said above, matters such as technique and fatigue over distance are important to address Speed on the elite ski isn't free. It needs training and talent, plus a realistic approach to every race and one's personal ability. Thank you 👍
Lol, you're always good for a smile. Actually, this topic is far from pointless for many paddlers....the question of advancing to a more "elite" boat is one many developing surfski paddling ask at some point. The video demonstrates our experience that elite isn't always faster for every paddler, and that the more stable platform may be a better choice for some. And that perhaps all paddlers shouldn't feel pressured to "move up" in boats until they're good and ready.
Well, now it sounds like you're just one upping us. :) 'Hope you were able to get that repaired -- we were very fortunate that we could get these boats repaired, and they're still getting out on water and doing their thing!
Talking about unscientific tests. I wonder if you placed a long board at the back of two skis and gave them a shove to see which one went faster and further?
We're in the eastern US, but don't offer formal lessons. Check out surfskischool.co.za/ and surfskischool.co.za/surfski-school-international/ -- that's probably where we would start.
Not sure you can extrapolate times over distance, as other factors such as fatigue kicks in and the ideal "technique falls off". Additionally the more hydrodynamic boat will be less fatiguing as it will have more "run" Why upgrade, its not just about actual top speed but as barry says, its the challenge, and the lessons learned. You can get stuck with sloppy technique with stable boats, because you get away with it. It can be rewarding, even if it kicks your bum from time to time. oh also ego ..lol
Agreed, the extrapolation is just an illustration to help us gain context regarding the differences in speed we saw in these few tests. As you say, there are many factors and athlete differences that would affect these projections over the course of an actual race -- and of course, environmental variance would play a significant role. On a rough day, the stable craft may produce a significantly better result, but in flat water, the opposite may be true. Speaking specifically to your example, the more hydrodynamic boat would have more run and would thus be less fatiguing...but if that same boat has less stability, it will eventually become more fatiguing (for some athletes). So many variables...which makes things fun. 'Love the points about why we should upgrade...especially ego (which isn't a bad thing -- there's value in doing something hard and nailing it!). Always great to hear your perspective!
Surprising result! I've been trying to decide whether to race my V9 or V10 G4 at Carolina Cup. My conclusion so far is a) the risk/reward favors the V9, as the V10 will only be a few minutes faster at best, and I'm *very* likely to fall multiple times in it, and b) I'm not going to win Carolina Cup in this lifetime anyway, so I might as well have a dryer and more enjoyable run 😂! I need a lot more ocean time in the V10 to get confident in rough conditions. Nice dolphin footage, btw. See you guys at Carolina Cup next week!
You are completely right in concluding that the "right" boat depends on you and your paddling intention and goals. I'm using an OC1 (a Kahele) here of Dana Point CA, and it is exactly what I need for fitness, sightseeing, social activity and good fun. For me, anything without an ama would likely take away some of my enjoyment; the OC1 goes fast enough and has stability when it comes time to rest and hang out. When I paddle I see tons of surfskis and tons of OC1s!
If your goal is to become an elite-level paddler and you dedicate the time to do that, I would only have one boat in the garage. If you are a weekend warrior and just in it for exercise and smiles, I would fill the garage with everything shiny that the budget allows. The empirical evidence demonstrated that familiarity and, ultimately, time in the boat determined the speed advantage. As a 105kg person, I hope someday for a boat that carries the waterline of an elite boat yet the width of an intermediate boat. I think for all the BO (Big and Old!) crowd, that would create a great balance between speed and stability.
Lol, we're not sure our tests actually *prove* anything, but yes, that principle is proven true again and again. There are clearly some other conditions at play here, too, since stability wasn't a big factor in these flatwater tests. But definitely, stable is fast.
I thought about this too. Not just a stabilization factor, but i think were your center of gravity will contributes to the propultion differently with wider boats. For a bigger guy like me that has a lot of weight in upper body and a fat head 😊, my stroke, even of perfect every time, will propel the wider boats more effectively
We didn't even consider the Fat Head Factor. 🤣 But yes, Jody, you make a good point. Stability wasn't a big (or at least noticeable) factor on test day. Maybe it was geometry, comfort, etc -- more likely, a combination of multiple factors. Hope to paddle with you soon!
Agreed, it's great that so many of the surfski manufacturers are providing many options for all goals and styles and skill levels these days. We haven't had a chance to try the new V5, but we do hear it's different from old model as well.
It is a challenging and very rewarding sport, but Barry started out in an elite level boat, which definitely made it more challenging than a more stable boat would have been. Fortunately, many brands now offer a broad range of surfskis for a variety of skill levels. Most people recommend starting out with a stable boat to learn the basics (even a stable boat may feel tippy if you're accustomed to, say, a canoe or a wide sit on top kayak), but trust the boat and work on good technique, and the reward will be well worth the effort!
Great video. Totally appreciate the effort. I will add one thing though. Not sure where you live, or what year you made this, but I live in California. You're looking at about $60 minimum for supplies.
Well, you know, the California price conversion must be applied. :) Prices here in coastal North Carolina have increased over the past year, too, but like everywhere, local rates may vary. Thanks for sharing that info!
I'd suggest: first set you paddle length to get the right angle of entry into the water to suit your body geometry and your boat then choose your blade size to get a comfortable cadence. Split paddles make experimenting with feather easy, personally in a sprint boat I like around 25 degrees but that is just what works for me. Highly recommend checking out paddling technique videos from kayak sprinters and marathon paddlers, they translate well to skis.
Yes, my mom said when I was little I started running as soon as I thought I could walk and fell a lot!! Not much has changed 😂😂😂. Hope your paddling is full of stoke and smiles!
Awesome Interview! I am from NC as well! I grew up in Morehead City and moved to Oahu 4 years ago! I'm working with Kai this coming year to produce some videos and I also just got my first Ares! SHOOTS!
Given there's zero speed difference between a stable beginner ski and a tippy intermediate ski downwind, and only a miniscule difference - tiny fractions of a km/h - on flat water - all this swimming amounts to masochism in my book. Unless you're kinky for racing, you don't need to "progress" to intermediate and elite skis. It will take you years of struggle you could be spending just enjoying the ride instead. By all means learn to improve your stroke - but you don't need any tippy boats to do that. More than that, if you want to learn to surf like Boyan does, you have to do what Boyan does and learn in a stable ski. Get a Nelo 520, a Think Ace/Zen, Epic V8 or Carbonology Cruze and NEVER trade up to any of the skinnier boats. No knock to The Paddle Channel - love you guys - but so people realise there really is a better (easier) way ...
Valid point of view, thanks for sharing. For us, learning to paddle the more tippy craft is part of the fun (when the water is warm :) ), and having the ability to paddle a wider range of surfskis is a bonus. We've found that paddling the more elite and high end intermediate skis is more enjoyable in most conditions (though Rod finds the intermediate ski more enjoyable on rough days, so that's in agreement with your experience). We have also found that downwind speeds do improve, with a lower heart rate, in more advanced boats, *as long as the paddler is stable*. That's been our experience, but we're in 100% agreement that a paddler could start with one of the boats you listed and stay with it forever, and have a great time without ever trading up. It all depends on the paddler, their goals, personality, conditions, etc. Thanks for sharing your experience -- definitely a point of view paddlers should consider.
We have found that in downwind conditions, a wider boat is practically the same speed as a skinny/tippy boat so I would agree with you there. In the flat water, a narrow boat is definitely faster. Different strokes, for different folks right!? Pun intended. Hope your paddling is full of stoke and smiles!!
Lol, it's always a possibility. Rod almost took a swim yesterday coming in through the inlet, and Barry rolled over in completely flat water while paddling backwards to clear a rudder a few days ago. We always say you always need to be ready to remount if you're going to paddle a surfski. :)
Would this ski be ok for someone who is fairly new to Surfski? I paddled a Fenn Bluefin for a couple months then switched to an OC1, Kai Waa Ares. I have paddled the OC1 for the past 6 months but am thinking about going back to a ski. Just wondering if I might need more experience before trying the Vega Flex out.
It really depends on the individual paddler. If you're okay with falling a fair bit at first and having a craft you can "grow into", the Flex might be okay. If you prefer a more conservative approach, the Flex might be a little "lively" for now. We recommend just being really honest with yourself in thinking about whether you're okay with many remounts in the early stages. Many, many coaches recommend "stability before ability"...we kind of straddle the fence on the issue. It really just depends. 'Wish we had a more definitive answer for you!
Surfski. I use a waist belt leash attached to the rear carry handle on my surfski. I am mostly in the surf zone as opposed to down winding. In the surf the leash attached in the bucket tends to turn the boat sideways to the wave when you wipe out. The extra force breaks the leash. Attaching the leash at the rear turns the stern into the wave creating much less tug. My belt has a quick release and I use the strongest leash I can find. I tuck excess length through the belt after I mount the ski so the leash lies on the deck. Have to be careful not to get the leash wrapped around the rudder on remounts. Other than that it is quick and easy with no tangles around your feet and legs. Downwinding you are trying to hold onto your boat against the force of the wind. In the surf, you are working against the breaking wave. Big difference. Still, I shy away from mid mounted thin coil leashes even in the mildest conditions. Hola from So Cal and Baja!
