I'm the guy who goes super deep into the lore of the games I love.
I tear apart the world, art, music, and written lore to try and figure out whatever mysteries I find.
I want to find answers before they're revealed in cutscenes or lore books.
And then I try to take all of what I've found, and offer it to you in videos that hopefully hit the wombo-combo of being both entertaining and informative.
But all of that is just the beginning.
Our time is at hand, and together, we will all rise.
Its amazing to come back to this video after the final shape and see how close your original predictions were to the actual ending. Just goes to show how well you reseached this topic well done bravo. My thoughts on this video is we are still unsure if other disciples were directly givin with light besides for nezarec in lightfall, and you were completely correct about the ancient race being the witness as we would come to know.
There has been new, crazy concept art released, showing the pyramid race, its homeworld and more Would love a stream or Video someday talking about that too, because i love theorizing about it and what happened that we got the witness and the dread and not something from those concept arts
Your ability to weave a tale from the disjointed wisps of lore is impressive. I believe you have put entirely too much meaning into Destiny 1 and 2. The writers have always been incapable, hence why the story is really only in fractured pieces of various exotic items. The primary goal is profit and agenda. You can see it with Osiris and Saint, the entire idea of the people of neomuna who introduce themselves as "they/them". Whatever Destiny was initially supposed to be, it was not what it has become. Thank you for the story you pulled out of the very thin lore tabs. I would have much more enjoyed a game built on such a theme. You made a beautiful narrative appear.
I feel that the new saga will focus significantly less on The Traveler. This chapter is now over. I think we will start getting more information on the Gardener and the Winnower, but not necessarily have them physically appear in the story. I feel there is a strong chance we will see the rising of a new Oryx-type entity that will follow closely the logic of the Winnower.
Thank you for making this video. I've only been playing since late 2021 but have almost 2000 hrs now and this game has got me emotionally invested like nothing I've ever experienced. In saying that, I was crying at the end of this because after the release of the Final Shape, the fear that sales and money and sony, are going to lead to your retcon theory, is a recasting thought. I am hoping with all of my heart that Bungie do have a big Game of Thrones "holy shit!" moment up their sleeves, but if they don't and they have just erased what was meant to be just for a $, then they will have broken my heart and I don't think they could fix that. Thank you for the time and effort for this video. You have a new fan because of your deduction to the truth over popularity ❤
About the whole "Nezarec resurrected in Lightfall" thing, just saying Lightfall is trash and isn't worth mentioning is a disservice to the lore. Yeah, the main story wasn't great, but the lore was actually decent, so discarding Lightfall is basically ignoring potentially crucial info. Now, about the whole "inconsistency" about Nez being resurrected yet somehow possessing Misraaks beforehand, I think that widely depends on how the curse actually works and the nature of Nezarec's existence. The thing is that Nezarec no longer exists as a single being. His consciousness is divided among his harvested remains, and the only reason he got rezzed in Lightfall was because his HEAD was on board the Essence when the Traveler blasted it. So long as there are still individual pieces of him out there, he can come back through them. Theoretically, if the other pieces were on other ships and they got light blasted too, we would actually see MULTIPLE Nezarecs. So, it's likely that rather than just being POSSESSED by Nezarec, Misraaks is BECOMING Nezarec through his connection to the reliquaries. As for the whole "destroy the veil" thing, it was probably so that once the Witness was within the Pale Heart, he wouldn't no longer need the Veil and destroying it after they got inside would prevent anyone from following them.
I dont know if we'll get nightmares specifically but maybe powers of memory. I think we could do more with memory, along side the power of summoning nightmares we already have some power over memory with deep sight
Hey ven, something maybe really minor that i cant get out of my head is the ikora dialogue in the trailer for "season of the undying reuse of cut content". In the season of undying Trailer she says "we say that the Black garden is the birthplace of the vex, but it was not the beginning, it is the reason. The life in the garden called out a question, the vex are the answer" I find this very interesting, could just be part of a cut story line but i think its interesting that life in the black garden which is heavily hinted to being the garden before time where the gardener and winnower fought called out a question, and the vex are the answer for that question. Maybe a hint at the future or maybe some way to connect it to unveiling ? Any idea? 😅
I never thought the Traveler was the Gardener, it just doesn't make sense. If the entity that created the entire universe was too weak to fight off Nezarec's fleet and the Witness, both of which are infinitely weaker than the entire universe, it would be a paradox. To think about it, perhaps Winnower and Gardener don't have to be singular entities: their being permeates the entire universe, where Light creates Material world and Darkness creates Ascendent plane. Maybe they spread themselves during the creation for the universe to appear. That's why everyone is one in the Light, that's why Darkness remembers: when we come back to them, we become part of them, like we used to be before we were created
I see the traveler as a toy the Gardener dropped in the flower game. But also how she communicates to our world. Kind of like how the winnower uses the veil to communicate to our universe.
Hey Venn, I find that your videos are good volume wise but the streams are always lower volume and it is hard to hear the other guys and yourself unless I bump up to max volume
so I think the veiled statues are a metaphor for the veiled traveler, not the gardener. The fusion of light and dark, the raw force of nature under the veil of intent, of consciousness. That is what I believe the actual final shape is as the winnower sees it: the greatest power of the physical and the immaterial realm in the hands of a conscious being, wielding it to become invincible, immortal. The strongest being in the universe, the actualization of the sword logic. Prismatic also brought the term transcendent to Destiny, and to me, transcendence in this context is literally going beyond light and dark, rising above to fuse both to reach limitless power. Philosophically this is reflected in the game as a temporary boost to the recharge rate of all abilities, in us becoming more resistant to damage, and in transcendence as a state extending its duration with the destruction of enemies. We are still in the very early stages of reaching transcendence, very far from what the final shape would be, which I believe is expressed in the short duration of the state, the recharge rate not being instantaneous, no unlimited supers and the fact that even though we become more resilient we are still very much killable. To finish off, if the gardener and the witness both became a part of the game, it may be that the traveler and the veil are the physical manifestations of their diminished self. So the traveler makes sense in this context as almost mute, lacking memory, but with the power to seed life and somehow pushes any civilization it comes into contact with to quickly develop into a more complex and advance form of itself. The way I see it, this all lines up with the gardener's philosophy.
I think Nezarec needs a bit of a retcon from the nonsense we got in Lightfall. Remember that wild theory that Nezarec was betraying the Witness on the sky for his own ends? I thought that was so much more compelling.
Honestly, I disagree with the idea that Bungie is setting up the Winnower as the next big threat. If anything, I feel the opposite. The few snippets of lore we get tells us that it’s simply sitting in the background, observing. He isn’t some malevolent god wanting to destroy us, he even says that when we defend ourselves, we are enacting The Final Shape by proxy. That’s the difference between him and The Gardener. The Winnower observes, The Gardener intervenes. He has no quarrel with us, and honestly, why would we have a quarrel with it. The Winnower and The Gardener have become more than characters, they themselves have become rules of the universe itself. As long as there is life, there will always be conflict. So I don’t think our next big bad is just gonna be another god embodying Darkness, because we just did that. I think Bungie is gonna be experimenting and pushing us towards something new.
I really loved your video. I would point out that for ancient Egypt, the mommy and the canopic jars are used to achieve the goal of immortality. The Egyptians intentionally eviscerated the body to place the viscer into the jars so that what was left of the body could be mommified without any risk of decomposing. The viscer, including the sucked out brain would be placed in four different jars based on the type of viscer. Eternal life was achieved through the preservation of each of these components. So there is no opposition to make between canopic jars and the presence of mommies. They are part of the same ritual, and are a means to an end: immortality. The separation is not only a technical process, but it is also justified by the much more complex notion of "soul" in ancient Egypt. The "Ka", the "Ba" and the "Mer" are the trinity that subsequent religions have amputated to keep only one concept: the soul. The viscer are the placeholder of the physical incarnations. However, the anchor for immortality still remains the physical body in the form of the mommy. If your analogy holds, then I am not sure you can claim that the pyramid race has actually succeeded in achieving true immortality according to your definition? The presence of canopic jars and mommies would prove otherwise?
I think there's also a secret 5th reason why the Gardener doesn't communicate with us after the Witness was defeated: She didn't need to. The universe was no longer under threat, or at least, not any threat her creations couldn't handle independently.
Even though you may not enjoy Lightfall, completely disregarding makes no sense and makes me disregard anything you say, if you just want to pick and choose lore
Bruh Nezarec said this himself when he dematerialized at the end of his raid, he literally explained it as "while his memory lives, so does he". Interestingly though, this suggests his being is woven into the memory recreation ability of darkness. Probably gonna mix with light or something in order to rebirth himself, same as the platforms in the traveler with the lil traveler orbs.
