I'm passionate about all things trains. My channel is a hub for railway enthusiasts, history buffs, and anyone who marvels at the iron giants that crisscross the United Kingdom. Join me as we explore the rich heritage, modern innovations, and captivating stories of British railways.
Brilliant video mate, I saw most of these moves at Preston. The driver of the 50s fully opened them up right next to where I was stood, probably the loudest thrash I've heard on the mainline for quite some time. Those logs were great too, rare to see an empty log train in daylight and rare to see a Colas shed up north. Them empty log wagons create a hell of a lot of turbulence, it couldn't've been going more than 40mph, and I was behind the yellow line, and it still blew my hat off my head!
Many thanks! Lucky you with the thrash - that pair of 50s do seem to take the roof off wherever they go. Indeed, those log wagons create wind tunnels behind them. Bizarrely, I had worse experiences with container wagons though I suppose given those log wagons only get up to 60mph, they aren't quite as turbulent as containers at full speed.
@@stevenmoran4060 They are in the process of withdrawing from their UK businesses so a couple of things have already been sold. DB Cargo UK, for now at least, remains owned by DB
At the start of the video you refered to the class 68 as your favourite train .as any serious rail fan will know they are locomotives , a train is what they haul
Hi There Again my real Name is Mr Cannadine T. Boxill-Harris, I have another interesting idea for most of us Class 507, Class 508, Class 313, and Class 314 and that also includes those interesting Class 315 Fans out there, rather than scrapping most of those Class 507, Class 508, Class 313's Class 314 including the Class 315's maybe you guys can convert them. Including the refurbishment into the Volvo TD102KF Engine, Leyland 680 Engine, Volvo B10M Engine, Scania N112 Engine, Cummins M11 Engine, Gardner LG1200 Engine, Gardner 6LXB Engine, Gardner 8LXB Engine, Class 507, Class 508, Class 313's, Class 314's and the Class 315's and convert all of them into a 2 Carriages and Three Carriages of the Class 313's, Class 314's and that is including those Class 315's for most of us Class 314 and Class 315 Diesel Train Fans PLEASE. Are you still going to do this interesting type of Project for all of us out there Pretty Please?
I first the class 68 when there on test in Norwich on the brunch lines then when the 153 & 156 units started to go there was a short set of mk2 coaches with a 68 on Each end. on wherry line and Norwich to Yarmouth plus a pair of 37s on anther short set till the new saddlers unit sets came into service
@@andrewbutler6477 Shame they've been absent from certain parts of the UK like that. Hopefully some future use of them will require their presence in that region 🤞
Brilliant shot mate, I saw them on the outbound leg at Crewe. First time I've managed to see them in full GBRf livery and I must say, I think they look very smart, the orange really suits them
There is one fact: Class 66 and 67 are better in performance and share the same spare parts.An if you need more power, you take two ! That is done by FREIGHTLINER and DRS, too. I did enjoy your video !!
Thanks! A lot of the companies seem to have avoided doubling up sheds aside from DB in recent months post-60 withdrawal. I'm assuming thats because of increased fuel consumption. FL needed a lot of power for their bumper 4000+ ton Tunstead to Webley moves which utilised the even more powerful 70s - perhaps preferring to save fuel over putting double sheds on
@@class77sncb they have though DB and GBRf rarely do it. DRS I think are the exceptions given their key WCML Tesco trains have to scale shap requiring two locos.
Would this be the same Class 60 having a member rebuilt as a hydrogen fuelled, steam generator test bed as a zero enissions loco? (Yes, it would. Early days peeps!)
@@theretrocrowe absolutely! It's got more clarity in it's thrash than the likes of a 37, combining the roar of most English electrics with the crisp-ness of rat thrash
How does a 60 pull more than any other loco? How did a 59 outperform any BR loco double headed the moment she got off the ship? Wheel creep phenomenon and wheel creep control systems designed to take advantage of it is the main part of it. The other being she was geared lower than BR locos of the day. EMD were the first to develop and patent this. If a wheel slips around the 1% mark you get a right good boost in pulling power. EMD's Super series creep control gives upto a 40% boost. A very cheap and very effective invention. A few limitations though. if one axle slips too much the creep control detects this and powers all axles in the bogey back. Also this system doesn't kick in right away. The boost only comes in once she has already got going past the 5-ish mph mark. Not much good if your in a situation where you can't get up to that speed to get the boost. The 60 has an excellent wheel control system. if one axle slips too much then only that axle is dialed back to the ideal slip. Often an axle is about to slip because of humps and dips and bending and flexing of the track rather than poor railhead conditions. If one axle is about to slip and be powered back some, it can mean the locos weight is going through the other axles even more and traction motors can give even more oomph to them other axles. That's why it's called SEPEX, "Seperately Excited" traction motors. Also the wheel creep control on the 60 works from the get go. There are places in the UK where 59 and 70 have been sent and as soon as they railhead conditions were poor they couldn't cope on there own, they have to sit there doing an impression of a broken down loco awaiting the arrival of another to unblock the track. These places tend to be steep inclines with heavy loads like out of Liverpool docks, Ebbr vale steel works. These locos do fine in the dry ideal conditions and get stuck if not. Same with climbing out of a coal quarry with coal dust tracked up the railhead in wet or.. dry conditions. There are several different railhead conditions and the ideal wheel slip rate can range three quarters of a percent to one and a half percent. The 60 also has slip ring alternators. If there is suddenly alot more grip to be had she can generrate the power the traction motors need to take advantage of it faster. Same if the grip to be had drops quick, the slip ring alternator can power down faster.
@@alstonofalltrades3142 Really interesting, that - thanks for sending over! That does make sense in the context of why I have heard of a few 70s struggling to get going on wet rails
@@railquest My 'guess' is they fitted a very cheap wheel control system on the 70 which is ironic given that she has AC traction motors. The creep control circuits for AC is simpler and often better. A DC traction motor is like a steam train struggling on the edge and the wheels keep spinning out of control and the grip is lost she stalls or rolls back a bit. To design circuits to stop DC motors doing this while right on the verge of it must be hard! AC creep control systems are a lot easier, they can't wheelspin. You still have your doppler radar speed guns so you know the exact speed of the loco and to inform any/either creep control system. But.. in AC Traction loco's you just vary the frequency of the AC supply to the motors and she will never rotate faster than that. Best I can explain it is like if we orbit a magnet around a compass. doesn't matter what speed we make that compass spin at, the compass will never spin faster than what rpm we move the magnet around it. There are alot of American locos that have had AC added to the end of their class number to show that their original DC motors were taken out and AC ones put in with a better creep control system to go with them. Maybe one day they will fit a better aftermarket one to the 70 and re-gear her for 60mph. Then again maybe one day they put 3800hp Cat engine in the rest of the 60's. Imagine what she may do with 700 extra ponies. Anyways glad you like the last post, had a hunch you may like it. This is the bulk of what I know on this but the info is all over forums and websites once you know the terms. That and there is a right good book on the 60s in Liverpool central library I found. Good video btw, informative. Hopefully they find more work for these underrated locos.
Agree with you about class 60's superior traction control but just one point though , both the class 60 and 66 have slip ring alternators , the 60 having a single traction alternator and 66 having two traction alternators
@@alstonofalltrades3142 The 60 manages motors with individual motor field control its pretty responsive system , watched this in action many times watching live data on PC diagnostics software while riding 60's . Class 60 lifting heavy train on gradient with poor adhesion still amazes me , the slip control is near instant and you can see its load share working as the bogies transfer weight onto rear wheels as it start pulling . 66's have never impressed me like the 60 does but there pretty reliable and much cheaper to maintain
@@nounoufriend1442 Man Id love opportunity to see things like this. I got lucky one day going Liverpool though. A 60 was at Tuebrook sidings ready to do ghe run around. So I jumped off at Edge Hill and it was actually seperating several biomass out the rake. I guess flats in the wheel. The driver was giving it 'some' ommph. The track was bending under tge bogies and the middle axle was spinning ever so slighty faster than the outer two. And with no judder, very smoothly. It made my head hurt like seeing a massive cruise ship leave Liverpool dock and you cant fully see it move but you feel slightly off balance.
Surprising that DB Cargo are still in business. They annoy both their customers and staff and it is small wonder why GBRf, Freightliner and Colas have taken their work.
Definitely, GBRf specifically seem to have done particularly well out of DB contract losses. It will be interesting to see if they survive in the long term.
Looking back on the source I was using for that bit, Rail Magazine talked about the trade union fears in this article though I'm wondering if both government and union lobbying may have played a part in that. Have you got a source for the government insisting? If so, I'll add it to the list of corrections🙂 www.railmagazine.com/trains/current-trains/the-resurgent-60s
It was the xenophobic EWS that led to the Class 60 demise. Even to the point of destroying 60098 which held specific significance to the UK. When EWS slung their hook and DB Schenker took over, many were too far gone to be ressurected.
It is a shame honestly. Whilst I glossed over this point in the video, I read about how close the class came to complete withdrawal years ago in the final years of EWS. I suppose this is the inevitable effect of privatisation as if EWS saved money standardising so drastically, there's no reason not to
Found EWS pretty proactive with getting freight on the rails , certainly better to work for than either BR or Db , not been impressed with Db as they seem shrinking the company selling off accents (locos depos )
@@nounoufriend1442 I was in the union just as EWS took over, they restructured well and things were looking up. My concern was that class 66's had reliability far higher than British built traction, = less maintenance staff needed. I had a couple of meeting with Ed Burkhardt and his engineering director Jim Fisk. Their vision was good, but, Ed failed to understand the British Rail system. In 2003 it lost a major contract , Royal Mail. The class 60's started to become un reliable, made worse by the closure of Canton. DB Schenker started off ok but then went down hill. DB Cargo being the worst of the lot. I worked for BR, Transrail, EWS and then the DB shambles. They gave away work if it was marginal. Now we have a lot of companies fishing is a shrinking pond. Only GBRF seem to have an idea how it should go.
@@DOCTORDROTT Our team leader got in involved with royal mail when they were still running 47's he was away months at a time ( I covered his team leader job few times ). Availability very poor so don't think Royal Mail hardly paid for service due to penalty's but soon as EWS acquired the 67's Royal Mail had to pay as availability was very good , then we lost contract ! (smell a rat ! ) Met Jim Fisk times at imm seemed to have good ideas , got us some great Pay and conditions , Ed workhard (Burkhart) visited as well , I found EWS great to work for . DB shambles lol like that , they only seem interested in selling off assets and cherry picking best work , they laid off loads of drivers years ago only to rent them back from Victor rail to cover jobs ! . Going back to EWS days we were renting 66's from Freightliner to cover our workload , how things have changed
The Yeoman 59's were maintained at a purpose built shed. I worked in there a few times. They only had a handful to look after, easier task. BR /EWS had much larger fleets therefore harder to maintain that were worked harder . DBC had 59/2's. They then lost the Mendip contract due to the fact they did NOT want to overhaul the 59's at their cost. So they give away a good contract for short term gain and long turn loss... madness
Yeoman got the idea from looking at Irish rail's 071 class and the older 121, 141 & 181 class. Irish rail 071 class are still going strong 50 years later.
60014 being at Longport EMD/Progress Rail is something to keep an eye on. Should the Caterpillar C-175 become successful under the EMD/PR repower/rebuild project. Many more Class 60's will follow suit. Also new AC traction equipment like that used on their AC locomotives will make these even better for reliability as AC traction motors can take more punishment than DC motors. Also maybe Stadler will offer something similar as well as they use the CAT C-175 and AC traction motors in their locomotives.
Actually that's not quite true. They got the idea from the state of NSW Australia and their recent introduction of their 81 class EMD's of which 80 had been ordered. EMD trumpeted how reliable the 81's were and Foster Yeoman took a look and ordered the class 59 which is essentially an 81 class built to fit within the British loading gauge with some features that the 81 class has that the 59's don't have like dynamic brakes and air conditioning. In NSW the local EMD builder had so many spares on hand for the 81 class that they were able to build a further four locos. The 81's are still in service today and now operate right across Australia just not in the state of NSW. Availability remains good right up to the present day but GM locos have always been good and some rail operators here have ancient GM locos fro the 60's and 70's in their fleets still performing hard work.
@@AussiePom I'd heard where they got the idea from was an EMD SW1001 switcher they'd bought for one of their quarries. From what I've heard, when ordering that locomotive, Yeoman wanted to get two to keep one for spare parts, but EMD managed to get them to order just one claiming it'd be so reliable they wouldn't need spare parts. The Class 59 as I understand it is also more based on the EMD SD40-2 used here in the US, though designed to fit within the British loading gauge.
@@AussiePom In Australia there are EMD in Service from the 50`,see the EMD" Nose " Locomotives - see ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tPpvB7FFUUI.html
I'm in the camp that they are not unreliable. I've spent half a decade clicking on the RTT paths out of Liverpool to Drax. Loads of them. Seen one 60 fail and one 66 fail. It's just EMD are so much cheaper to keep running. you can neglect servicing them and still they are uber reliable.
@@alstonofalltrades3142 Locos have to be maintained to an engineering document, and not just left to run neglected, regardless of class. I worked on class 59 /60's and 66,s from new. The Mirrlees engine likes to be constant power constant load. Rail traction is a bit different. I worked alongside Mirrlees reps and Ruston reps on the 37's and 60's. The 60's were let down by various engine defects ( camshafts ) and brake electronics. The also had a lot of power earth faults, speed probe faults, starter motor abutment faults etc. I attended a few with number five power earth faults 90% of the time, strange that. Lots of class 60's has M5 restrictions on them
@@DOCTORDROTT They had their issues early on which is to be expected when designing a new loco. M5 restriction... These locos were designed like the 59 to do heavy haul at 60mph. They can get up to over 90mph with no wagons on but they're not supposed to do that. Probably why there is an M5 restriction in place.
Rail Express magazine said they were withdrawn after a major problem was found on a bogie during routine maintenance. DB did not give any more details about it. If other operators still use them it makes you wonder what the real cause for withdrawal was, surely if a major problem everyone's would be out of service for checks or repairs.
Thanks for the info! That's definitely an interesting situation, though sounds like it might have been an excuse to remove them given they'd already announced they'd withdraw the fleet by the new year
@@railquest Just what I am thinking after seeing this, no details given, and when GWR found cracks in their Azuma things LNER withdrew theirs for checks and also found cracks because with a major defect there is a national alert sent to all operators.
Great video, living very close to the Mid Cheshire line, its such a shame the 60's have gone inc the biomass ones. The Northwich hoppers is now a 22 loaded set with a standard 66 and the 66/6 on the long distance Knowlsey bins which is 2000T and has been a normal shed for ages. Given Toton are looking after the GBRF ones then keeping 5 for DB should be cost effective, guess they're waiting for autumn season on wet rails for Northwich and the tanks flow to see if its worth it. As for the 60's looks like GBRF are putting them on stone flows and the NE biomass.
@@bobtudbury8505 To be honest. I think they are slowly winding down their UK operations. Wouldn't surprise me if Toton Traction Depot becomes a GBRF facility besides the head office at Peterborough, which isn't top far from Nottingham anyway.
@@BritishRail60062 i hope so, i find it very wrong DB railways on uk rails, that's joining the eu for you .....on another note i think db railways are losing ground at home as so many private rail operators now working german lines, it'll be interesting to see how they get on that way as to how the uk are getting on???
@@bobtudbury8505 what a bizzare comment to blame the EU for. Private companies are free to invest in whichever railway operators they see fit - for example, there's British owned companies operating in Germany and 'taking' contracts from DB.
@@bfapple not strange at all, this country had an industry and could make everything before joining the eec / eu . the run-down was deliberate, and the uk was to concentrate on banking. .The Germans even wanted that by 2012, thank goodness we are out and we need to be fully out . We can then sort out the basics like egg production instead of importing them from Holland ffs!
CORRECTIONS: - It turns out 20 locos were not scrapped by DB in 2010. There were twenty locos offered for disposal by DB but the list of these includes locomotives that were never scrapped or left DB - Apologies for the mispronunciation of 'Yeoman'.
Some facts wrong in your video, what / which are the twenty class 60s scrapped in 2010 ? To do a round up on a class of loco's you need to get the facts right to be credible. Example..I can't find details of any 60s scrapped in 2010. Do you have numbers of those disposed of at the scrappers?
Just reading your edited comment - this was something I'd come across during the research but did not deem it necessary to go looking for the actual locos in question. If it turns out no locos were indeed scrapped, then I'll post a pinned comment for the correction 🙂
Just had a look and I've found a list of the locos in question - looks like they were offered for disposal by DB, though this list actually features a couple of locos that have still, to this day, not been scrapped. web.archive.org/web/20101212090018/www.rail.dbschenker.co.uk/disposals/disposals.html I'll post a pinned corrections comment - ta for the heads up! 😀
They were good when new, I worked on them from day one, camshaft issues, cylinder head valves and coolant leaks were the main issue. We had a good fleet at Canton, it went down hill when Canton closed so they could not get the tlc they deserved to work the UK's heaviest trains. Margam struggled to cope, EWS /DBC always favoured class 66's . If you do away with maintenance facilities , expect reliability to drop. DBC management were very poor and treat staff like shit. I did nearly 50 years in the industry and the DBC days were the worst, run by hatchet man Heller. You have to keep the customer happy, class 60's could not always do that. So that is the main reason the 66's are now used
It is a sad fact of accountancy, that maintenance doesn't make a profit. Modern accountants are programmed for short-term gain, and to fill their pockets; they know the cost of everything, but the value of nothing. 'Re-engining' with Cat units to produce a workable fleet of 90+ is the best solution in my opinion as a time-served engineer.
@@nlo114 Personally I hope GBRF will take over operations at Toton. There is plenty of life left in the fit Class 60 locomotives and I think the CAT C-175 power units would have been more viable. GBRF, DC Rail and now Land Recovery see the value in these Class 60 locomotives and are looking at bringing more of them back onto the mainline. Colas sold their 10 to GBRF in favour of their Class 70 fleet which is fine. But when (and its more of a when than an if) the CAT engined Class 60's start entering service on the mainline. It wouldn't surprise me if we see GBRF expanding their pool of Class 60's and taking over contracts from Colas and DB. Also not to forget that Beacon Rail and Akiem owns the locomotives that GBRF and Colas uses mainly so the leasing companies pay for the maintenance and parts for their locomotives and I think if DB really wanted to save on these costs. They could have sold all the super 60's to Akiem/Beacon Rail and just leased them back from them. That would have been more logical and sensible in my opinion.
