Hi thanks for watching and commenting! I never would run it that fast unless I was not the one paying for inserts 😆 I always rough with them and just use the fly cutter to finish.
why didn't you allow the fly cutter to "heel"? you stopped the cut after only the leading edge of the fly cutter was off the work. let it heel. let the trailing edge feed off the part.
Thank you for watching and commenting! Why would you take the full cut if not needed? The large diameter of this cutter allows it to make a full cut without running the back side, if the part fits within the diameter of the cutter. So perfect flatness and finish why would you take the extra time?
@@mvpmachine You say heeling is not needed, the heeling action removes metal too. As a 33 year Tool and Die Maker, not heeling is bad practice... It doesn't always leave the flattest surface... then again, it is an easy way to hide the head being out of tram. There will be a day when it bites you in the rear and you'll be remaking something... just don't say that no one told you.
@@yelims20 When I check with an indicator and see surface grinder flat and a good finish I call it good, this is a modern fly cutter with a high positive carbide insert and a negative rake, not a HSS hand sharpened tool bit. Big difference.
just take a propane tourch and hit the flame verry short. to the surface.............you get a real nice shine. or just copper shine works mutch better than this polesching wheel
Thanks for watching and commenting! I have had good results with flame polishing edges but never tried a flat surface, just does not seem right. Are you saying that surface would be as optically clear as I made it? Seems like distortion would occur due to the random nature of your hands movements with the torch. I do not work with acrylic very often but I always regarded flame polishing as an edge treatment where optical clarity it not that important.
@@mvpmachine we did it a lot with 15-20mm thick PMMA plexi glas in europe. it works graith. on the safe site use grith 1000-2000 and end with copper polisch or better 3M. i am no fan of hard metal kind polich cloth. the bring in a lot of heat and tension
Love this. A man enjoying and sharing the journey. Im constantly impressed by clever people looking to create clever solutions. Keep the videos coming :)
Warren, thank you for watching and for your comments! There are 2 more updates for the heater after this video on our channel it is a work in progress and a final update coming soon.
I'm a physicist and engineer, so I thought I'd ask if you have considered using a water vapor system where the vapor can be used to transfer the heat to the sand. That way you won't burn out the heating elements.
Hi, thank you for watching and commenting, there are 2 more videos after this one that show some evolution in my design, I am not opposed to any technolgy that will make it work better but as a rule I do want to keep it as simple as possible. I am not at all familiar with what you proposed but would like to hear more. I do not really like the sound of it though because the key to the silica sand, made up of mostly quarts is that it has to be completely dry to be effective, otherwise the heat is wasted boiling off the moisture. Many people I see experimenting with these just use plain old sand and it is not effective. Quarts is an excellent conductor of heat and I am using as a thermal conductor as much as I am using as a thermal mass. I think you mean adding another type of heat exchanger and that seems to complicated for this.
'Desert sun 02' has also made plenty of these with different ideas and parts. I'd recommend an aluminium pot filled with sand and perhaps a thermostat, but on a cold day who cares right?! I like in your idea the tube being flat as you could use it to heat things on top like a stove. Was also going to say that heat rises, but given you have an aluminium conductor shouldn't be much of a problem reaching the sand. Maybe you could sandwich these to make array's. Nice build.
I tried the buckets it is hard to get meaningful heat unless your are in the desert 😏. It is a good way to test the theory but a bad way to get heat. In my opinion it must be contained so you can control the heat more effectively. By containing it you allow the entire volume of sand which in my case is pure silica which it mostly quarts a very effective heat transfer media, to entirely heat up and transfer that heat to the outside. I have 2 other follow up videos to this one where I have made some considerable modifications to help the heat come out but still get the sand benifits. Thank you for watching and commenting!
i cant image this doing much more then 1hour or so . i would think you would need at least 500-1000lbs of sand media to make it worth while and most likely really need at least a 1 ton or more . very cool machining and worksmen ship though . hopefully you plan to scale it up to a decent sand volume . can you put higher voltage and lower the amperage to be less stress on the heating pads ?
Cody, thanks for watching and commenting! There are 2 more updates on this heater on my channel. I am not only using the sand for storage but also for a thermal transfer media. The third video kind of shows best what this has evolved to so far.
Man I thought all metal had scale on it I’ve had some tubing soaking in acid and I been grinding thinking it was scale and it wasn’t lmao I should have known because the metal did not have the dull gray look to it I just assumed
@@mvpmachine Yes, but since you are running this on solar, do you really care how much energy you are using? In fact, I'm looking to accomplish a few things: 1) Setup an energy storage of heat for the winter months. 2) Use solar to feed that storage system. 3) Get paid for doing it but not from pumping it to the electrical grid where I have to sign a contract with my local government. Instead, I want to get paid by a distributed network for mining crypto. So, I was thinking of how to store the energy from the BTC servers while I store the money at the same time, and just pay back the server investment over time by saving on my energy bill and also diversifying my capital investments.
@@jd01665 It sounds like it could work but setup cost is going to be huge and it is not a sure thing as crypto has proven to be a bit risky. I would thing proving the crypto model you are thinking of would be the first step then after that works using the heat could be invested in with the profits. Waste heat is the best use for a sand battery.
Hi Eric, thanks for watching and commenting! Oil would not work with this design because I am unable to weld the horizontal fins, they are a tight tolerance press fit, tight enough for sand to not get out but warm oil would go all over. Mineral oil also cannot stand up to the temperature of the heating element.
Plexiglas needs to be cut with a negative rake tool, just like you do for brass, also put a slight radius on it, use kerosene as a lube. Machined a lot of plexiglass to critical measurements = or - .001. Then polished with a buffing wheel.
with you cutting a deep slot, don't you get any pinching with that stuff and when it is on it's side isn't there any sag from the top leg and flex with the fly cutter cutting the top surface from the inside, effectively cutting and theoretically pushing the work up as it is cutting out? must admit nice bit of gear.
Hi, Thanks for watching and commenting! This material is surprisingly stable unlike some steels like cold rolled. It was designed for commercial aircraft dies and used for stamping the fuselages and wing parts. Where you cut it is where it stays. The company that made both the material and dies had a huge CMM to check the parts and I have witnessed them pouring the blanks because a friend of mine worked there and also cutting the dies on thier enormous cnc bridge mill. They sold out to another company a few years ago and I no longer have acces to the excess material but I wish I did because I have used it for many projects.
@@paulrayner4514 the company that made it had a polymer division and a machining division so it was an internally developed product that was only used for their own jobs. I think it likely is quite pricey to make but they did not sell it to other companies. We used to make carbon fiber fixtures for the auto industry and they had a chemist that developed the resins for a lot of applications including carbon fiber and this material. Great people but they got to retirement age and sold off the company. The company that purchased them I believe still does the same thing and they are only a mile or so from our shop but I do not deal with them.
Hi thanks for watching and commenting! That is the one I am planning to use! I think it will work perfectly for this. I will be posting an update soon.
Hi Mariano thank you for watching and commenting. It for sure would have helped to have it seal tightly but everthing was new at the time and on the hinge side the gasket was still not completely compressed. It later became a tight seal after sitting closed and being used and it did help a little but secondary combustion was not useful for the way I use it as a patio heater. It would be if used inside like in a garage. The rope seals are not very good when you use them outdoors the elements kill them so I left it out after her updates and it still works great. If I ever use it inside it will be put back on.
I love seeing *real* machining - I’d actually never seen a real industrial fly cutter before. The contrast with the little piece of HSS sticking out of the little fly cutter for my mini-mill is hilarious by comparison 😂 Interesting about the differences in application making such a difference in cost between the two types of cutters. Also that the fly cutter’s lower pressure on the part makes it better suited for flimsy parts.
Thanks for watching and commenting Dave! Unfortunatly fly cutters get a bad name from the little HSS toolbit ones everyone is accustomed to so they dont take them seriously.
Im not sure I went to a submersion type heater in video 3 for this heater, I like that a lot better than the PTC elements. Now I just have to install a controller. Thanks for watching!
I have used dozens of each style over the years. We used one to get it close and the other for the finish cut. I use hight speed steel or cobalt for aluminum. Both definitely have their distinct use even though they do overlap on use.
This is fascinating. I don’t run a lot of carbide endmills - but do run some. I always assumed coolant was a must generally, but this makes complete sense. I appreciate the insight here. 👍👍
Thanks Stuart! I am a coolant and cutting oil hater to a certain extent except for drilling and machining aluminum. It has made my life easier...But I do always use it on the CNC lathe.
Check out our video about machining Cold Rolled VS Hot Rolled Steel:ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9L42Wj4STl8.htmlsi=Cl87QB6FdfLdVuG8
I’ve been making similar fly cutters that take cnmg 43x inserts for many years. A very versatile tool with a high rigidity head. Our shop had a stack of T1 bulldozer blade parts to machine. 6” wide .100” deep cuts and thick heavy chips throwing all over the shop. The self clearing nature of the fly cutter is not to be underestimated. By far a more economical tool in the right circumstances. The only thing to be careful of is the tram of the head as the wide cut seems to exaggerate the error versus several narrower cuts. Very good video sir
Hi William thank you for watching and commenting! It's hard to beat an inserted fly cutter for many of the projects we do as well. Many machinists dismiss the value of these thinking of the HSS tool bit versions that are so common and cheap. We made our first fly cutters to cut the inside of large copper weld guns for the auto industry, some of the bars had to be 4ft long to do the job. Once we mastered the proper angles it made the job easy and we were the only company that the customer would use because the quality and finish was so good. Glad to hear about your cutters sounds similar to how our came to be.
I’m considering using a fly cutter in the apprenticeship program I’m in for the finishing face pass. It’s 316L what kind of speeds and feeds would you run your exact tool and insert at? I have no experience with fly cutters. Great video!
Hi , I am not sure I would consider a fly cutter for 316L it js one of those materials that does not lend itself to fly cutting as it requires a higher amount of cutting force than most free machining steels. I think that one is best left for a facemill with material specific inserts. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@mvpmachine thanks for the response. I’ve been running lathes for the last 12 years and I just can’t get over the feed lines left from face milling as no such lines are generally left in turning operations. The other option I’m considering is making a fixture to surface grind the faces so I don’t have the feed lines.
@@bf4chode2 You can use a face mill like a fly cutter if you have one that cuts the material well but just leaves the cutter marks sometimes removing all but 1 insert will give you a much better finish. But on large surfaces the blend lines will always be there to a certain extent but over lapping your cuts by 1/4" or so can sometimes minimize them. Some grades of stainless are difficult to get what you want finish wise. Depending on what it is for I have gone as far as media blasting to give stainless a uniform finish and that works well.
@@mvpmachine it is going to be a gift, so I’d like it to look seamless that’s why I’m leaning towards surface grinding. We have an entire semester to do it and I can’t imagine it taking more than a class or 2 (2-4 hours) to machine the whole thing since I already got both sides of the program made and it’s 30ish minutes total. It would give me more time on mills and gives me a fixture I can use outside of school. Thank you for all the suggestions!
Be sure to check out my next video on milling dry vs with coolant here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-06_10JTpAgg.htmlsi=EBd-QTO0RZoKHLc1
Watch my next video where I show the effects of machining CRS on a larger scale: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DJx228amocA.htmlsi=k1omAeG6FGjDIypk
I wonder what would happen to the cold rolled if you normalized it first. Or--- do they sell normalized cold rolled that might be P&O afterwards? I know that would add to the cost, even more than P&O hot rolled, but It might save overall cost of the project.
Hi, Thanks for watching and commenting! The problem with normalizing aside from the expense is it will wreck the outside finish and flatness requiring a skim cut and negating the benefits of buying it in the first place. The only process I know of that works and will not change the surface is cryogenic treatment, which I show at the end of this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DJx228amocA.html Another option is using 12L14 steel which is a leaded alloy that costs more than CRS but no headaches when cutting and similar in properties to CRS.
@@mvpmachine Good points. I had totally forgotten to mention hydrogen atmosphere or vacuum furnace normalizing (to preserve the outer finish. Not cheap, of course, unless--- Back in the 1960's I worked for a commercial heat treating company in a city with lots of small tool and die shops. At the end of their workday, we'd have a constant string of deliveries from them. Enough that we could often consolidate loads so the cost for one individual piece wasn't too bad.
@@frenchcreekvalley Yes those are good options to preserve the surface too. Not very commonly used for CRS due to the cost and the fact that better material options are available.
Hi thanks for watching and commenting, I don't think the fly cutter finish was bad at all but I don't know if a wiper insert would be beneficial with these cut depths. Also I do not know if TNMG 432 inserts are available with wipers, I cannot say that I have seen them offered.
@@NicholasSarich I had some trimming and some cracks washed completely out down to over and inch only in a few cracks but looks like where stream is flowing across it. I need to just stand out there and watch during a good rainfall it’s next to a hill and a gutter dumps alot of water sometimes.
@@dustintacohands1107 i wound up using boiled linseed oil to seal mine after. WARNING it takes a long time to dry and will darken pavers slightly but has held up for 2 years now and it looks great. It took mine a few weeks to fully dry and if it rains it will leave white spots but eventually it all dried and the white spots go away. It actually works unlike all of the other sealers I have tried over the years!
@@mvpmachine I’ve gotten kinda obsessed with dry stacking and stuff like that. Part of me loves leaving nature room to move in. One day though I’ll get into concrete and sealers more. Thanks for info I’ll check it out a bit.
I am learning a lot. Just got a job as a CAM programmer (Hypermill) but I have never even done any CNC programming, LOL. My first real assignment is a part made of Toolox 44. My very experienced colleague pretty much decided on the approach and the machining parameters. Most of it is done with a 12 mm carbide end mill but a lot is done more with the face than the side of the cutter. I asked him about the trochoidal technique and he said he has experienced cutter breakage in the past. I am sure we use flood coolant pretty much always and have no air blast. It looks like constant cutter loading and more stable temperature along with using as much as possible of the flute length and air blast for optimal chip evacuation is the way to go. Even though the part is a one-off I found the machining time as it is programmed now very slow indeed. I never used coolant on my conventional lathe and it always worked great.
Thanks for watching and commenting! It is likeley the coolant could be causing some issues with the tool breakage as well as not enough of a cut. That material is relatively easy to machine but can work harden with an overly hot tool making the part hot then cooling it instantly. Air blast is relatively easy to rig to try it and not too hard to make a cheap sytem for permant use. It likely would help you. It is only used to get the chips out of the way to avoid recutting it is not meant to cool the part or tool the heat comes off with the chip. I hope your new job goes well!
@@mvpmachine Thanks so much! I will investigate further. It occurred to me that only a microsecond of inadequate chip evacuation loading up the tool/ recutting that could cause instant breakage. Also I have seen some cases here on YT of Toolox 44 being dry machined with maximum flute engagement. The technique makes all the sense in the world to me and when it does not work I think it's worth finding the cause.
@@bigbattenberg using as much of the flute as possible is easier on the end mill for sure. That material does not do well with small cuts it is similar to grinding it does heat things up.
Thank you! We sold it a few years ago to another youtuber here it is in action on his channel with one of our origanal huge fly cutters: m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VVr9Mct89a8.html&pp=ygUKRWRjYWxsYWhhbg%3D%3D Thank you for watching and commenting!
@@mvpmachine You really are big on fly cutting, that's for sure! Incidentally the company I work at here in Holland has its own sand casting foundry and thus we machine a lot of cast iron. So far I have not seen any fly cutters used but I guess it only makes sense when the requirements call for it (especially surface roughness/ flatness).
@@bigbattenberg we actually make and sell them so our fly cutter videos are to help people use them properly and also to promote them. Does your company foundry produce cast for internal use or for customers or both?
@@mvpmachine Only for customers. We have 3D sand printing for molds which is pretty unique. Check us out: Sanders Gears and Castings in Goor, The Netherlands.
An IR thermometer like the one you used is almost completely useless for measuring metall surfaces. Metall surfaces act as a mirror, you are mostly measuring the temperature of your clothes and any other reflected object in the background. Put a pice of tape on metal surfaces you are planning to measure then you get much more accurate measurements. If you get a heat camera it is very obvious that you se a mirror image of your body heat in any flat metallic surface.
@@StepSherpa i have burned my hand on aluminum before I knew this. If you check out my propane tank wood stove video, I show this same IR thermometer reading off of the stainless top up to like 500f.
@@mvpmachine The wood stove video at about 11 minutes pretty much proves my point. You are measuring higher temperatures on the back and sides than on the top. That is probably because the sides are painted and the chimney is more oxidized. The top that is a cleaner steel surface probably reeds to low temperature.
@@larslindgren3846 The stainless is 1/4" thick compared to the less than 1/8" thick steel on the sides and stainless is a poor conductor of heat. the back shows more heat also because that is the exit where all the heat goes, also higher than the thicker stainless steel. If you look at the thumbnail on my other woodstove video shown here the red tells the story, ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Lhe9zpZAupM.html this was a pine fire and the whole thing gets crazy hot but the red is concentrated toward the back.
Thanks for the informative videos. I’m getting back into metalworking and opening another machine shop with my son to give him machining and business experience while he is going to engineering school. How do you like the tool holders you use in the video? I’m taking delivery of a Hurco VC600i soon. How do you think they would work on this machine? Do they come in a Big Cat style? Thanks!
Hi Steve, thank you for watching and commenting! I wish you and your son luck in your business ! I have a cat40 spindle in this machine and the tool holder in this video is a Nikken collet milling chuck I love them but they are pricey. I try to find them on eBay when possible. Most of my other tool holders are from a company called CME. They are local but sell nationwide www.cme-tools.com is their web site. They have the best collet style milling holders I have seen and are very affordable. I hope this helps, Tim
Andy, my thoughts are for a CNC lathe it does not apply. The coolant likely does have a bad effect on insert life, but you can generate so much heat especially during rapid stock removal that it would likely be bad for the part. Our CNC lathe can steam up the shop preety good when we are doing production. On a manual lathe I would say in most cases except tapping and drilling no coolant works fine. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Hi Thank you for watching! I did somewhat fix my audio in my latest video, I have a new noise cancelling mic. It sounds a little tinny when the machine is running but better.
@mvpmachine Well that's great. Good job, you are are too good to have a poor mic getting in the way. My career is in television news so I notice mic's. I will watch more of your stuff.
We make some clevises out of 2” square 1018 CF. Mill a .812 slot 3 or 4” long. Have to squeeze them back parallel when we are done with them. Can go out as much as .03”.
Dustin, I have had the same fun experience with clevises and CRS, but never been able to squeeze them back and have any accuracy on the slot, do you recut the slot after? I usually try to have a lot of stock everywhere then fly everything after I spring it. if the slot is large enough I can fly cut one side of the part and both sides of the slot in one setup with the fly cutter, then flip and do the remaining outside.
I've never run CNC. Most of my milling has been done on small machines similar to bridgeport. Ive always used cutting oil rather than coolant as it wasnt messy and most of those machines had no option for coolant. Does the oil have the same effect? Of course these machines cant cut at near the rates that your CNC does. Love to hear your thoughts.
Hi, thanks for watching and commenting! The answer to you question really depends on what type of cutter you are using. With high speed steel your method is not bad, but with inserted carbide cutters nothing is needed and you may be hurting your tooling with oil. If you use carbide end mills I do not know that I would spend extra for the high performance coatings because it would defeat the purpouse, you likely can get them hot enough to work by using a slow feeds and speeds but that's not necessarily good for the carbide without the proper chip removal rate..Plain uncoated carbide will work fine dry but a small amount of oil would likely be beneficial.
AlTin coatings run best with airblast above 450 SFM and water based coolant below that speed. In most all grades of steel and alloy steel I run 600-1000 SFM for roughing operations, then finish pass at 300 SFM with coolant for finish quality and accuracy. Lower temp and harder coatings like TiCn generally last longer with coolant and at lower SFM. The hardness provides a longer lasting cutting edge for longer accuracy in your finishing operation. Aluminum and stainless steel grades can be roughed dry as well if you have a machine with enough power to make the proper chip required. I'll rough 316 stainless with airblast for 4-6 hours at 1000 SFM and .010 IPT on a 1/2" endmill without issue. But without the power to push it hard enough you won't get under the work hardened layer and will definitely have issues.
Thank you for watching and commenting! I always use coolant for aluminum and stainless, do you use coated end mills when you dry mill aluminum and if so what coating?
@mvpmachine Titanium DiBoride and titanium carbonitride is the name of the coatings. Depending on the part, sometimes I use coolant and sometimes I don't. Like many aspects of machining there are lots of variables. If you want to rough out aluminum without coolant then the main requirement is lots of power and a big chip. Usually only with larger endmills. I will run insert tools dry as well and those have fully polished inserts with no coating. But again, a large chip is needed. .014-.020 IPT on a 2" diameter shell mill. I have a lot of machines crammed in a 1500 square foot shop on my home property so my main reasoning is air quality. A 3/4" endmill at 18k RPM or a 4" shell mill at 10k RPM makes a lot of smoke and mist with flood coolant. Having 5 spindles running like that makes it almost impossible for anyone to work in there even with mist colllectors running non stop, so I had to find alternate methods that happened to be more efficient and more reliable.
@@pcsmachineworks You are packed in there with 5 machines going. We have the same issue when our CNC lathe is going full, tilt steam and mist and you go home with heavy lungs for lack of a better phrase.
