They’ll be reunited in the life stream. We never saw a scene with the two of them interacting (since Aerith was asleep), and I think that that’s a big clue.
Yep. That's the Schrödinger's cat paradox. There's a version where Cloud managed to stop Sephiroth's sword and saved Aerith; And there's also another version where he didn't stop it and Aerith died. The question is, did that really happen? Or was it all in Cloud's head? (where aerith ended up dying anyway)
I actually would love a twist where Cloud dies and Zack comes back in the crater scenario OP mentioned. And everybody is like WTF!!!!! Even if eventually Cloud would surface in Mideel.
To me it doesn’t make sense to lay out all this groundwork with Zack being alive and jumping around between timelines only to turn around in the end and end at the same spot If this were a faithful remake then I’d say Aerith has to die again, but that’s not what this is. They wrote their story into this corner and now there has to be a payoff. Aeriths’ earned her life imo.
those are my thoughts eactly, like seriously whats the point of adding elements like multiple worlds and whispers just for us not to save aerith? if the story ends up staying the same im gonna talk so much shit lol
That Meteor detail is actually an amazing catch. Meteor has been shown with visions in remake/rebirth… but it hasn’t been summoned yet (though Aerith and Cloud both knew about meteor at this timing in og FF7, Cloud shouldn’t know about what the black materia does in rebirth)
Not knowing little about Jenova is the point. She’s too alien and enigmatic for us to comprehend. It’s similar to lovecraftian entities in the Cthulhu mythos or IT from the Dark Tower mythos. If you try to give Jenova more personality and character development you actually undermine what makes her character work.
You are missing the point. Alien is precisely that which is unknown. The inability to understand her IS her character. And let's not forget this is not the 1st time Square gives us a shape shifting alien as the final boss whose characteristics are so beyond human that we can't even comprehend its behavior. That being said, Lavos was a much better execution of the concept compared to Jenova just like time travel/timelines were also better executed in Chrono Trigger compared to FF7R trilogy.
I think that not knowing too much about Jenova is the best part of her. Makes her EXTREMELY creepy & scary. The first thing that comes to my mind when you mention Jenova is the first time we see her in Shinra HQ in the OG. The pink lump of humanoid Resident Evil meat that scarred me when I was kid. Jenova doesn't need to be a "character." She needs to be a presence. She's a force. Many stories have & need things like that. Not everything needs to be a character. Jenova exists to compliment Sephiroth & Cloud's characters, alongside many others, and to represent fear of unknown in FFVII.
Jenova has always been this mysterious presence lurking everywhere. What terrifies me more about it, is the range and spread she has over so many things (we can thank a lot of it to Hojo for making that possible). For me there's really no need to expand her character with a backstory of something of the sort, unless there is to be a conflict between Sephiroth and Jenova or if Sephiroth were to die in part 3. He is indeed a terrifying man but without access to the abilities and capabilities of Jenova, Sephiroth is not pulling off half the stuff he does in the games.
True. Jenova is the foundation for all the conflict in FF7. We are told of the crazy influence it had in the past of the world and that still has in the present day (although it is being control ultimately by Sephiroth, and as you said, he can only do so because of its mother's power). And like I said in the video before this one, the devs had to prioritize the elements of the story they wanted to tell, not every character could be expanded in the moment through conflict and interactions. But, since one of the big points of the Remake trilogy has been about expanding the characters, I was also expecting for Jenova to have her moment. When they tell us about that she came from outer space, we just accept it. Which is fine. Still I have to wonder, how did Jenova get to "accidentally" crash down to the FF7 world. Since space is such a vast place, that is even beyond our ability to comprehend it, I find it hard to believe that it did not intentionally traveled to it. And it was just random. It could just be that it sensed its presence. But I would like to know it. Better yet if it was from Jenova's perspective. And where it came, who created it and why.
I don't like Sephiroth character in remake & rebirth... they make him so naive and silly in the original game, Sephiroth was mysterious & dangerous & scary. please reply
Personally I would like to know how JENOVA came to be, in the "maybe" upcoming Aerith & Zack DLC after remake part 3. Where did it come from and how it was created... But that's just me, who is curious and wants to know more lore from this story. A good one of course. I'll leave here some links of other videos for you to watch, in case you are interested: What if Cloud became evil? - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JfE7EU1COk4.html What happened to Aerith at the end of FF7 Rebirth? - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FMymVJClDgk.html Sephiroth's True Goal in Rebirth - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SGwpBHMoe_g.html Hope you enjoy And also, don't forget to subscribe! Take care
Tbh, I don't see the point of the multiple timelines idea in the remake if they weren't going to make a major change to the end. Without a major change to the ending of the original FF7 game, the multiple timeline plot would just seem like a needless and ultimately pointless addition, a convoluted plot with no purpose or payoff. My guess? Aerith and/or Zack will be present in the end with the last remaining timeline.
I feel this is Omni-Artith creating a false reality for Cloud to help him cope with his failure to save her. I think eventually that will go away in part 3, and send him into even more insanity, leading to the eventual life stream sequence
This remake series really rewards you for being a fan. The more familiar you are with the lore and world of FF7, the more you get out of it. The pinnacle of fan service. I was worried when Remake was announced that it would just be the same story and there were no surprise, but the story they crafted plays on the fact that long time fans know the story. It’s something new and old fans can experience together. Truly a magical gaming experience.
I loved Remake. Rebirth, however…. Uggghhh. The replay-ability and the character changes and the balancing and the ending kinda ruin it for me. Barrett was so so so good in Remake… his portrayal is not the greatest in Rebirth, and not because of character development.. same with a lot of the other characters and events… I could go on for hours with specifics, don’t get me started…
This is interesting. I don't know if I'm in the minority in this or I just missed something in Remake but I genuinely thought that Wedge had died at the end of the game. Because you know, the whispers literally pushed him from a 60 something floor of a building. (you even hear the windows shatter). And then in a interview done with Hamaguchi, weeks before Rebirth's released, it was talked about how wedge survived in Remake so casualy... Which confused the heck out of me. Because there was nothing that confirmed in Remake that he had survived (only Biggs). Fast forward to a sidequest of Rebirth in Cosmo Canyon, and Lord and behold he did die.
@@The_Mammal_Man he survived that initial bit where he died in the original timeline but he was injured. But after he recovered he joined that other group only to fall and die anyway making it pointless. But yes they handled it in a really stupid way. if I hadn't done the side quest would never have known what happened because they' didn't Even talk about him until then that I can remember.
I looked At Reddit and apparently somebody mentioned the window scene did happen in the First game But was really vague on whether he died or not. Doesn't make it less stupid all around though. Either change The story or don't. They need to make a decision And stick with it.
Adding to this, for those who don't know or remember, I would also suggest checking out the different ost versions of the date scenes you get in the Gold Saucer. Then again, there's a lot of amazing soundtracks in this game
I think the reason is that they want to keep us guessing because everyone knows the original story, and they want to have creative freedom to "change the story". Suffice it to say I take these two games are different timelines of the same story, and an indirect sequel to FF7 because of Sepiroth meddling changing the original's timeline to...his liking thus creating a new scenes. But I must say the amount of mind meddling could make anyone crazy and get to mental asylum from mako poisoning like a cloud after this messed up storytelling conundrum. This is literally a mental health problem simulator and I honestly like it in that way.
/spoilery comment/ People should be content. Aerith surviving in another dimension is perfect! It's Final Fantasy after all not Perfect Horror. Especially after the trials and all the deaths. Damn even sadder now with the Ever Crisis with /more spoilery/ the Rosen scene however there might be a twist or an ask I need to get passed that extremely difficult boss first!
Here is the thing. As far as characters, its hit or miss. There are some characters that are done very well, such as Barret(though there is a major issue attached to him, but that is more for the narrative section, since it was a narrative decision which completely undermines Barret's character developement.). However, there are some characters that are literally not the same character as the original, such as Aerith (you can try to argue against that, but the fact that she has knowledge of the future means she is objectively not the same character.). Additionally, adding more is not always better. IE, Bigs and Wedge do get more screen time, but ultimately it doesn't actually add anything of real substance to their characters. Gameplay is different. Its not really better or worse. The ATB based mechanics are completely fine mechanics, are completely fine mechanics with strengths and weaknesses, just like the action ATB hybrid they made. There are some aspects to the Hybrid system that I don't like, but ultimately its nor "dishonoring" the original, or anything like that. Graphics are obviously an improvement. I'm not going to pretend like it isn't. There is a 20+ year difference between the games. The technology may have improved a little bit.... Music is a hard one. Just as is, the music in both are great. Uematsu is still the GOAT as far as video game music, and the music in FFVII is all originally written by him, and at most you had people giving tweaks to his original compositions. The issue isn't in the music itself, but in how its used. In the original game, the music was just as big a part of the set pieces as any of the visuals or even characters. The music made the scenes. In the new games, they make a lot of the music is diegetic. The problem with this is, instead of designing the music to build the scene, they have to have it make sense in the setting, which sometimes screws with the scene. IE, regardless of what is happening around you, if you go to the kid's hideout, you are going to get that bouncy upbeat Gold Saucer theme. Narrative. This is where these games absolutely fall apart. Also where the whole "the devs care, and it shows" aspect I strongly disagree with. The story of these games is literally that they are trying to not have to follow the story of the original game. They included stupid multiverse, timeline nonsense into the story. The odds of doing that well is incredibly slim, and they didn't pull it off. All they succeeded in doing is removing any sort of tension and consequences (why does it matter if someone dies? In another timeline they are fine. Why does it matter if you lose? In another timeline you won. ETC). Furthermore, when you actually compare the set pieces together, its like night and day. Just as one example, lets look at Jenova's escape from Shinra HQ. In the original game, we get hints at who Sephiroth is. A mention here, and there, all hinting at some very significant figure. We then see this horrific creature held in Shinra HQ. After desperately fighting through, we end up getting caught by the specialists, the best of the best. Defeated, we are dragged into cells, with very little hope, we rest, hoping to be able to figure a way out of the mess. We then awaken to a mystery. The door is unlocked, and the guard is dead. We then carefully make our way along to find the Jenova container has been ripped open, the creature is missing, and everyone has been slaughtered, as we follow a trail of blood and corpses. It took everything we had to fight our way through this building, and we still ended up failing, yet this thing just butchered its way through, up to and including killing the untouchable president. As we take in the sight, we realize that we are seeing the remnants of a terrifying shade. The phantom that is Sephiroth. Lets compare that to Remake's version. Sephiroth has literally been appearing and hanging around Cloud since the beginning, popping in to say high, then disappearing again, so not exactly a mysterious build up. We fight through Shinra HQ, and really don't have anything to worry about. All of their best (the Turks, and SOLDIER.), are all things we have already handled in the past, so its not really a big deal to handle them again. We aren't captured at all. Cloud just has a migraine and passes out for a minute, so we take a break in Aerith's old room, and just leave when we choose to without anything, or anyone stopping us. Skipping over the completely pointless and rather long arbitrary dungeon, we end up finding Jenova breaking lose. However this time its a trail of purple goo, and nothing else. This then leads up to finding Sephiroth physically in the President's office (not that him appearing is a surprise by this point. Its kind of just like a "really? Again?" sort of moment.), where we watch him kill president Shinra, then we fight Jenova, leaving no mystery, no build up, no excitement for what may be. Ultimately, the worst part about these games for me, is the fact that we will never get an actual remake of Final Fantasy 7 because these exist. I just wish they didn't try to play off people's nostalgia, claiming that this was a remake project, and marketed it for what it is, which is a sequel. Not only could they have made these games that they clearly wanted to make, but they ALSO could have made an actual remake on top of that. The problem is the devs don't actually care about doing a remake. They care about doing something new and different, but they still want to get all the old crowds that doing a "remake" would draw in.
@@gustogusto4519 Little bit of both. The fact is, despite it being a sequel, Square 100% marketed it as a remake. So, any comparisons as a remake are completely warranted, due to their own choices. That said, Sequel or Remaster, a lot of the points I brought up apply to both equally. The only thing that wouldn't necessarily apply to both is the narrative point. However, I did bring up specific points that still do apply to both. Specifically in the "multivers/multiple time lines is 99% of the time kills the narrative" point, and the "they sucked the life out of the redone set pieces" point. Whether its a remaster, or a sequel both of those aspects still apply.
I had so much fun with Rebirth. It has better combat than part 1. I also understand why hardcore fans don’t like the direction of the story goes or just want it to be turn-based mechanic. Part 3 Finale really need to explain well about the multi-universe.
The games are great for the most part, but Rebirth has quite a bit of flaws such as way too many minigames and the “main trophy” besides the platinum is the golden trophy that heavily relies on these minigames. Theh should have made that trophy a much harder version of Hoarders of the Outer Worlds. In Remake, Top Secrets was a gold trophy and you had to work hard to get there. Usually side bosses that have their own trophy are super hard in all FF games, but Gilgamesh was an absolute joke and super easy to beat in my first try.
That's to be expected. Not everyone will be on board for numerous different mini games. Most of them you only need to play 1 or a couple times or not even need to play them, since there are a lot of optional ones. Then again... they didn't need to go that far, yet the effort that they put into adding more to the game shows how much they care about it. But it's true that some things might be a bit overwhelming, like the amount of VR battles to obtain many different items or even extra QB challenges to obtain special cards for your deck, even if optional. Even so, I'm glad they are there
@@Valentien23 Yeah, but it’s like C’mon! 😭 The way they made beating him a trophy made it seem like he’d be on Minerva or Weiss’s level. Weiss still gives me hell to this day, with everything maxed out, I still only beat him 2/5 times or so. Gilgamesh was just too goofy for his own trophy.
When Remake came out, I couldn't believe that it was real for the first 5hours. And funny enough, same thing happened with Rebirth. Especially when you get to the grasslands to roam around. This to say, the devs did the impossible. They not only met my expectations (that were so high, despite my best efforts to suppress them) but they surpassed them. Not only once BUT TWICE! So for me the new games have, no doubt, lived up to the Original. So I'm not that worried about how part 3 is handled.
I agree with about 87.4% of what you reflected on and said in this video. We can argue about the rest... and theorize about "kingdom come" for the finale of this game series.
Do you agree with what I said in the video? If yes, tell me why down below. If not, tell me anyway. And while you're at it, don't forget to subscribe! I would really appreciate it Take care
She is dead, but her lifestream presence is still in contact with Cloud, and just noticeable for Nanaki. Whether he really sees her or can talk to her I don’t know for sure. This might also be a representation of her presence. At the same time it is clear to me that the reality of the loss of Aerith hasn't really sank in yet. What might play a part is that Cloud seems to dissociate a lot: emotionally, repressed memories and maybe here the full extent of reality. Appart from being traumatised by watching his mom burn to death, there are more reasons to that, but that will play out in part three. Sephiroth tries to play with that and by controlling Cloud, tries to make him insecure about himself and his emotional identity, but in all his introverted repression, Cloud clearly shows emotions like sorrow, being elated, care for others: the way he clenched his fists in remake at Jessie's side, the way he bottles it up as he seems unable to save anyone. People talk a lot about the losses Barret and Tifa endured, but Cloud was there right along with her. I really appreciate how the writers portray this more covert traumatic response that plays hide and seek with the one living through it. They make the viewer live through it alongside Cloud as a broken narrator. Dissociation can be very alienating like this to the point where you start to question yourself, importance, meaning and reality of things that happened. Yes the end is confusing, like it should be.
To me this game appears to be way more than your run of the mill RPG where bad stuff happens and you kind of watch from a factual third person perspective how protagonists respond to that. Yes, you get that with Tifa and Barret, Dyne, Yuffie and also with Aerith. I like how they all have different ways of dealing with their trauma rounded out by their charackter design. Tiffa has a more hesitant contemplative approach, Aerith seems to handle it by being proactively positive, playfull and impulsive, but underneath she has complete grasp of what her trauma encompaces. Barret adopts a hands on approach and directs his rage in outright battling that what hurt him, whereas Dyne is the flip side of the same coin as he takes out his anger on innocent bystanders. One is driven by accountability, the other by irresponsibility. Yuffie is an interesting one, since she is clearly working through things from a simplified absolute idealistic childs perspective that is also very materialistic and protection driven: If I had all the materia in the world, I could protect myself and my loved ones from being hurt ever again. Of course that is nonsense, but something very fitting for a teenage mind to cling on to. I also find it endearing that she still seems to struggle whith the idealistic concept of fareness (Aerith dying "is not fair"). What these have in common is that they are all offferd through third person observations. Cloud his trauma response is way different in that it is offerd through an unreliable first person perspective. Cloud thinks himself to be the tough one and doesn't even realise or outright blocks out that he suffers from Trauma. In remake he is introduced as being haughty and uncaring: he is Ex-Soldier and only cares about the money. That what doesn't affect you can not hurt you. Tifa finds this to be unsetlling, because this is not the Cloud she has known, so she takes him along and he becomes her ´project´. Cloud starts noticing that things ar not right, confesses that to Tifa, but still keeps denying it at the same time. He doesn’t know what he experiences in this dissociative split mind of his. Even in the forrest with Aerith after all that has happened he still keeps up that he is fine. This, along with his trial in the temple is just the introduction. all the while the flashbacks he has start to tell a different story, that all is not well behind that huge emotional wall of his. He knew Zack, indeed how could he forget that? These realisations frighten him, so he kind of blocks them out. As Aerith dies he kind of breaks and along with him the player falls in and out of reality. The world he sees has a great rift and while it might be really there in some level of reality, I rather accept it as something symbolic for Clouds mental state. The dissociative world in himself is ripped up. Before his date with Aerith she warns him to "not look up, because he would not like what he would see". I gather she would be warning for the comet that must be there approaching somewhere also, but he only sees the rift that that splits his dissociative mind. After her death he alone sees the same rift and warns the others to "not look at it, because it is just an illusion". All the while a broken Cloud is a dangerous Cloud, because off balance he can be easily manipulated by Sephiroth. In that respect the scene in the void is also very important. Sephiroth places himself in front of the specific portal Cloud will fall through, because he knows that Cloud will strike him. Thus he gives him "his blessing." He guides him back into this world to be reunited with his body. and indeed in what way did Cloud get the "real black materia counterpart" from the void? only time will tell.
It makes absolutely ZERO sense for Aerith to die. We see in Remake and throughout Rebirth that Aerith, Sephiroth, and even Cloud knows of the OG events. This is evidenced by Aerith giving Marlene knowledge of her death in Remake that was later confirmed in Rebirth. She also gave Red XIII knowledge of the whispers. We know Cloud has knowledge of the OG as he regularly sees glimpses of Aerith's fate in the OG, and in Remake he had an exchange with Sephiroth early in the game in which Cloud says "You're not real. You're dead. I killed you with my..." To which Sephiroth replies "Oh, you need not remind me." Not to mention the numerous other times Sephiroth has alluded to the OG events. Yet the very reason Sephiroth failed in the OG game is BECAUSE he killed Aerith. If Aerith wasn't within the lifestream, then Meteor wouldn't have been able to be stopped as Holy activated too late. So you're telling me that Sephiroth is so inept that he knows how and why he failed in the past, yet he is repeating the same mistakes twice? You're telling me that Cloud not only knew about prior events, but actively saw visions of them and he didn't put the pieces together and try to change something? You're telling me that Aerith knew how she died back in the OG and she didn't tell anybody in the party, or take steps to achieve a better outcome for herself? With everything they've changed from the OG, Sephiroth killing Aerith creates massive, unresolvable plot holes.
Well, I’m playing remake. I love Tifa. And I hope Cloud and Tifa are declared canon. But I fell for Aerith more. Dunno. There is something about her. The player falls in love with her somehow.
