I rarely comment but I just wanted to say that nobody, and I mean nobody, is keeping this whole ASOIAF thing going like you are, GRRM included. Just keep doing your thing and I just might still care to read this Gods (all 7 of em) forsaken book when it finally comes out. So thanks for that.
Even if it never gets finished I can still find peace. This channel has helped with that, as the in-depth theories and mythology connections/allusions make it feel like we are finding our answers as best we can. A lot of these theories make so much sense they have basically become canon to me, even if we never get another book, I'll be satisfied with the theories and personally convincing speculation I've learned from these channels being a stand-in for a proper ending.
When I first skimmed this comment, i saw the word "forsaken" and was thinking about the TWOW sample chapter. I was gonna say, do NOT read that chapter unless you're in a good place mentally. It's like a bad acid trip in there
@@spicypineapple2778 I thought it was noted in Fire and Blood that Silverwing left a clutch of eggs at Winterfell or was rumored to but it's only mentioned once and then wrote off by the maesters as just a rumor
Woah thats a crazy theory. George said that there would be a second Dance of the Dragons, what if jon never was meant to ride Rhaegal, what if he finds an egg in the crypts and it hatches for him after it comes into contact with the Last (Male) Targaryen
Super interesting to note that no one dies to resurrect Beric! Although he usually dies in battle doesn't he? When other people from the battle have also died? Could be that those deaths inadvertently pay for his life.
I kinda think melisandra won't have to sacrifice anyone to bring back jon.. she stays sacrificing people so maybe she will already be powered up lmaooo?
It might have to do with their own power/belief, if melisandre believes she has to sacrifice someone then she does. Thoros doesn’t believe he needs to so he doesn’t
Beric also isnt really alive after being wighted. His heart doesnt beat, his blood doesnt flow, and he loses a bit of himself every time. "Only death can pay for life" would seem to apply to an actual life being gain in exchange for the blood offering i.e. Dany's dragons.
I LITERALLY just made a post on Tumblr about Summer seeing the dragon a few days ago, because somehow even though I've read Clash over 100 times (no I am not using hyperbole here) somehow I glossed over that passage every single time and didn't take it seriously! I was immediately met with pushback from folks saying it was just Summer seeing a pillar of smoke, yet IMMEDIATELY before AND after describing the winged snake, George makes a point to describe both smoke and fire using plain language - meaning that Summer does not need to interpret smoke with that flowerly, wolf-ish language the same way he CONSISTENTLY describes things like swords as claws and teeth. So I stand by it being incredibly suspect!!! At first I took it as literal, because it's plausible that Sheepstealer is still kicking out there - and we know he nested in the Vale for a long time, it's not too far away. But I think you're right in that George simply WANTS us to think about that dragon imagery in tandem with the Crypts of Winterfell. Awesome stuff as always dude!
I kind of like the tinfoil theory that Nettle actually was a cotf (Leaf) in disguise. She later got to Winterfell „for the Bran Boy“. After the presumed death of Bran and the fall of the Starks, she reached out to sheepstealer and flew to the wall to go back to her cave with Bloodraven. So Leaf is actually Nettle-Nan. Michael talks about stuff made a video about it, it’s entertaining to watch. It’s probably nonsense, but it’s one of the best explanations for Summer seeing a dragon. On the other hand, taming a dragon with food and kindness is really cool, too.
@@fabianbinder3681I saw that video too! I don't know that I believe it but it's a cool theory, and Nettles aside there is something very very weird to me about old Nan, I hope we get to learn more about her or at least what happened to her!
Nice seeing another Clashhead here. It often gets accused of having "connecting two better installment" syndrome but I really like ACOK for its style and imagery. I think grrm struck a great balance between cryptic and direct storytelling in that book also
@@fabianbinder3681I love the Nettles > Nan > Lief theory. Totally fits as Lief says she spent 200 years walking amongst men until her heart became weary i.e. seeing Daemon die in front of her and thinking the Bran she came to winterfell for actually died.
I dislike that sour, bitter man as much as Tyrion. I also find it sort of funny that a 40/50 year old man is having beef with a 15 year old 😅 for me, seeing Thorne's reaction to Jon not only being a Targaryen but also whatever creature of ice he's resurrected as is going to feel like sweet, sweet vengeance to me
Hi, David. I don't think Melisandre will be the one to burn Shereen, but the wildlings, they are terrified of her because of the greyscale. Melisandre will take advantage of the sacrifice to resurrect Jon. Your channel Is terrific 😍❤
Totally makes a lot of sense. It's a blood sacrifice too, so dragon lord magic. A good parallel to Dany too, sacrificing three lives for her dragon children. She also didn't do all the sacrifices herself, MMD was the one who used Dany's child, so Mel could easily use the wildling sacrifice of Shireen to boost her own resurrection spell.
About the white hair: Catelyn was left in the river for days if not weeks and her hair was this way when Berric fished her out. Berric's hair didn't change because his body wasn't left for decay.
Hope for Ghost "The Celts believed that the wolf was a powerful symbol of the moon, and they associated it with transformation, intuition, and the hunt. They also believed that wolves had the ability to communicate with the spirits of the dead, and that they were therefore able to act as intermediaries between the living and the dead". So the magic dire wolf does not need to die he has points in the necromancy skilltree
I’m just thoroughly obsessed with this channel and your videos!! Keep them coming!! It’s like an IV drip keeping me alive in between HBO content and eventual WoW release ❤️🧡💜
Didn't see this at first but you have the same attitude as me. I love reading the books and I really liked HOTD s1, so much so I read the entire F&B tome during last summer. These days, most of my enjoyment of ASOIAF comes from streams and videos like this, supported by quite a bit of imagination. I made it for years just re-reading the series every few years, one book at a time. Once I learned there were such high quality channels filled with like-minded folk, I realised there were another five years of discussion and content to be had...at minimum! Looking forward to the future tbh
I love it! It doesn’t conflict with the prior canon material we have either because we know or reasonably could assume that pre-Conquest til after dance of dragons era, eggs were far more abundant, thus could easily explain any prophetic dreams or visions associated with any other Targaryens alive in those times
I like the dragon egg theory, and I think it's partially right, in as much as I definitely agree that Daeny's dragon dreams were triggered by her dragon eggs. But I don't think it has to work like that for every Targaryen. Daemon II (John Fiddler) tells Dunk that he dreamed of his brother's deaths in the battle of the red grass field before they were killed. Which means he had dragon dreams long before coming to Whitewalls. But the Blackfyres never had dragon eggs. Daemon himself laments this. In fact it's the reason he hoped to hatch one at Whitewalls. My head Cannon is that Targaryen/Valerian magic is basically hereditary fire magic, similar to the hereditary green magic of the First Men. I think that like the fire mages of the red temple or ancient Valyria, the Targaryens can draw on any fire to fuel their magic depending on their individual proficiency with magic or the strength of the dragon blood trait in themselves. However I suspect that magical fire items(dragonglass, dragon eggs, live dragons, maybe even Valyrian steel) are the best fuel for Targaryen/Valyrian magic.
Fun idea (that's probably already been mentioned) Princess Shireen is a stone dragon that will be woken. She had blood of the dragon, albeit a bit watery. She has stoneman disease. It's likely Melissandre will burn her like Dany was burnt. I just want to believe she won't get sacrificed and gets something of a decent life. Edit: Posted about 2 minutes in. Also her dream about being "eaten" could be her just being consumed by becoming a dragon.
If they do bring Jon back, it would follow that his resurrection will be more coherent than, eg, Lady Stone heart because he never truly dies. If he jumps directly into wolf, then back to his body, he’ll be more whole?
Potentially, it depends how long he's in the world though. It's mentioned a few times you start to lose yourself if you spend too much time in an animal.
If anyone had ever wondered why Martin would so often use military ranks in his armies which did not exist at the time. One of his main inspirations as people know was the Wars of the Roses. Just like in the Burgundian Wars, roughly at the same time, large mercenary units had been employed first in Medieval Europe. Those had these ranks. Though, Martin does not really have large mercenaries units at all.
I talked about that more in the Jon Iceberg proper. it says "armored in black ice, his blade burned red in his fist" which could certainly refer to Valyrian steel, since his father's V steel sword was black and was called Ice
@@DavidLightbringer I interpreted the black ice as Obsidian. Would be some funky armour but Jon knows what Valyrian steel is so I doubt he'd describe it as anything other than Valerian steel if it were that.
Makes my day to have a LML upload - much less the day after a GWT upload! Cheers mate! Support your local library, comments and upd00ts help the algorithm and LML helps the ASOIAF community! Spread love and be kind!
Jon has a very similar name to mine own irl. Always felt a connection to him at that more basic level. I also found his quest for finding "his place" in the world to be well paced and rewarding emotionally. Yet even after finding love and family with both the Wildlings and the Watch alike, he still doesn't have everything figured out and has continuing problems to work on overcoming
@@manofhonor1685 I view the show versions of characters more as loose sketches of those in the books. And book Stannis looks like Steve Dillane in my mind's eye! Except with a narrower face and more glowering countenance
I think the only time someone doesn’t die when Baric is resurrected is when the Hound kills him. Every other time it’s on a battlefield, so technically a lot of people are dying that could be used to power the resurrection.
I have an idea that for Jon waking dragons out of stone can also have two possible meanings: one is that there will be a sacrifice to wake dragons out of stone by melissandre, possibly burning shireen, and Jon will be the dragon to wake up, and/or Jon means the rebirth of the male targaryen line (in many aspects when the male line dies the house is considered dead, and there are hints that dany won’t be able to birth living children anymore), aka, a rebirth of the westerosi dragons/the last line of valyrian dragonriders
I think that, unlike Beric Dondarrion, Jon's time while dead will be very active. His consciousness may very well take up residence in Ghost, but that consciousness will also travel to the crypts of Winterfell, where Jon will indeed discover who he truly is. Once resurrected, it will be verification of this in person at Winterfell which will play a part in Jon in either refusing to be named King in the North in spite of Rob's will or abducting as King in the North once named.
wow. this makes so much sense on so many levels. certainly my new favorite theory video. The bit about the dreams being connected to a dragon egg and the evidence in the dunk and egg stories, as well as dany. DAMNING STUFF. Especially it being Daemon posing as "John the fiddler" It feels you have properly interpreted this as a whole. truly came away from the video with a much clearer picture of how GRRM might resolve his draconic identity.
Man found your channel through alt shift x, and you're making me want to read the books which I've avoided due to how badly the show ended and that they're still not finished But man so much depth, and I'd love to see you tackle other stories. Anyways amazing content I've been binging it
I like the Nettles is Old Nan, and a COTF theory by Michael Talks. Sheepstealer could have been nesting on top of Jon’s egg from Vermax, or laid her own. Then when she escapes during the sack of Winterfell she’s both a literal vision and a prophecy.
Maybe the egg hatching at the end of the story will be the "dream of spring" Thanks for everything, I really like this theory Any chance you'd release a vid thats just like 3 hours of the awesome psychedelic cut music??
If dragons can go into some form of hibernation then there could've been an actual dragon under Winterfell that ate corpses to grow a bit before being trapped in the collapsed section. There might even be some meaning to a dragon growing by eating lots of dead Starks/Wargs too, maybe some Jojen paste type stuff that creates a weirwood connection, I haven't really thought it through. Maybe a sleeping dragon could give Jon those dragon dreams and it would be nice for Jon to have his own non-Dany dragon because then the other two can go to Euron, fAegon etc and it would make him more of an equal to her.
Fun fact: Baby chicks start chirping and respond to the mother's soft chirps while still in the egg. If you hatch them in an incubator it's fun to talk to the unhatched babies and hear them chirp in response and see the little eggs wobble around. I once picked up a few guinea fowl eggs for a chicken to hatch as the eggs she was sitting on weren't viable. As I hadn't really planned it out I had to put them in my bra to keep them warm for the ride home which was a little less than an hour away. I got about half way there and heard a huge crack! Guinea eggs are really hard and thick so I can only imagine how much louder the sound would be for a dragon hatching. (Everything went well for the guinea keets, the chicken was a great adoptive mother.)
Love the Theory, yet only 1 problem I can see with it is The Doom of Valyria dream. "Daenys The Dreamer had claimed Balerion at the time no bigger than a horse - the night before her fateful dream." So maybe the dragon dream doesn't have to be in an egg, or maybe another egg spoke to Daenys the night After she claimed Him.
How am I only just seeing Jon being "armoured in ice" in his dream is symbolic and possibly his subconscious telling him his icy "Snow" identity is his protection? On Beric's resurrection- perhaps the wiggle room in that is the "death" is a portion of Beric's memory/soul since he admits he remembers less and less every time
Ya Aegon V (Egg) says that he and all his siblings have dragon eggs in Dunk and Egg stories. Obviously Daeron is his oldest brother so he'd also have one
Being a dreamer has nothing to do with dragon eggs. It has to do with an outside force entering their dreams. Bloodraven with Bran and Quaithe with Dany are prime examples. Its not a magical ability. Theyre just the recipient of a message in the form of a dream.
Winterfell burning would be hot enough to hatch a dragon with all the lives and blood sacrifices in the battle, and Summer saw it, as it's small self flew towards Jon. Jon making excuses to go towards it too with the "rescue".
He won't be able to ride the dragon but it could sit on his shoulder like drogon does for dany and the crow on the shoulder of the knights watch lord commander. It could protect him by burning whites while fighting. He could warg into it himself or maybe even better bran could as in his dreams to help protect Jon and fulfill the dream. Thus Jon would also poetic have ice and fire animals with him in a symbolic way . Maybe the dragon already hatched when winterfell burned as bran thought he saw one in the sky. So maybe he could ride it if it's been eating wildly on the loose
I think Mel won’t NEED to sacrifice Shireen, but I think she will THINK she has to. Mel is terrible at determining what she sees in the flames. And she doesn’t know about Thoros bringing Beric back. I think that will add to the tragedy of it all. Because the reader will know it was unnecessary
right on Andrzej, I know folks like you are out there and love the channel but have less time, so yeah I try to look for good chances to clip out a particularly good moment from the longer streams
Great theory! Having a dragon appear at the end of the tunnel would be such a cool way to conclude the crypt dream. That part about Jon being the first to receive dreams from the egg because there hasn’t been a Targaryen up there since Jace is very interesting. However we know Egg ends up at Winterfell in the next dunk and egg novella. Maybe George will write or consult the show writers to write that Egg has the same dragon dream as Jon during his time at Winterfell?
If Vermax laid eggs at Winterfell, Jace would have taken them. Plausible Jace could have brought an egg. But, maybe Ned brought the egg that his dad gave to Jon at the tower of joy.
Great video! Based on what you are saying and new content we are seeing in HOTD such as; - Aegon's prophecy - Isle of Faces (in the trailer) GRRM can't release WOW until after HOTD ends. They are introducing events that change the end of the story. If something happens at Winterfell involving dragon eggs in HOTD, it is important to the main story and may have a big impact on how the books end. Anyway, food for thought.
Will George has said that the house of the Dragon cannon is separate from the book Canon, but there's no question that House of the Dragon is aligning itself with the book lore much more closely than Game of Thrones did. so I think you may be overstating it to say that George would hold back release of Winds of Winter, which I don't think he would. however he does work very closely with Ryan Condall, so any deep lore that we see on the show we should assume to be either right or close to right as far as the book canon goes.
i'd like to look into every character's prophetic dreams/visions (those who have them anyway). it'd be interesting to compare them and see how they coincide p.s. - 69th Like!
I like that one illustration of Dany and Drogo where he's giving her a look..."Uh, Moon of my Life, Honey, can you put that egg down? You're kinda freaking me out!"
I do love the egg in the crypts idea. Like Jon returns to winterfell speaks with Howland who has Ned’s bones and as Jon puts him to rest Ned keeps his promise of next time we see each other I’ll tell you of your mother. When Jon learns of her he finds her bloody cloths and wrapped in is an egg. At the end of the story Jon gives this egg to his son. I doubt it’ll happen but one can only hope. Maybe with Ai we can get an ending to the story as George probably won’t finish the story.
"The Dragons know, Daenarys, do you?" @David Lightbringer I have always thought this as well. Dragon dreams. ❤❤️🔥 Especially when she feels Rhaegol reaching to Rhaego in utero.
this could honestly be confirmed or denied with the next season of hotd because grrm has used that show before to show us stuff weve never seen in the books or got and are canon to the world like aegons prophecy he wrote that himself
Hey David, im not sure if this has ever been brought up. But with regards to Thoros and Beric doing the Ressurection without any cost to life. Remember the George specefically pointed out that Berics blood does not flow, his heart does not beat. He is *NOT* alive persay. So perhaps the slogan of "only death can pay for life" simply doesent appl here since he is not alive. Perhaps a true ressurection, like the one George is leading Jon to undergoe, WILL restore his heartbeat and his flowing blood due to the sacrifice of Shireen Baratheon. Since only death can pay for life, Shireens death will well and truly revive Jon and not turn him into a walking corpse like Beric, youve had ideas before on what Jons revival will look like, but im not sure youve ever considered this. Let me know if you ever see this comment what you think of it
Excellence as always Dave. Love to hear the most obscure and interesting bits of myth and lore, alongside the fantastic analysis. Provoke thought and Praise Garth brother. 🍃
That's cool. Love it. Never thought about it this way. Probably they sent the egg for Sara Snow's child, but knowing GRRM that child probably died, so the egg sat there waiting for Jon to hatch. I've only got a problem: what is it eating all the time? There must be more tunnels that open to the surrounding of Winterfell, one large enough to allow a dragon through.
This got me thinking…might Bloodraven have brought an egg to the wall…and beyond? He coulda snuck it, but he also could have been allowed to if Egg knew about Aegon’s prophecy and was interested in guarding the wall. That could also “possibly” mean Bran eventually dragonbinding using greener magic!… Lmk what y’all think, Dave too(especially), might be far fetched idk…
Ok. So 1st Jon will be an ice wright , break the wall, and invade Westros. Then he will be a fire wright at some point (somehow). So, at what point does he realize, find out, or be told he is a Targ? I would guess it would be after he (as an ice wright); takes Winterfell. Which would be the best place to be changed into the fire wright and find out he is a secret Targ. ( How the hell are they gonna manage to rescue/ kidnap him to make him a fire wright? (have i confused only myself😅😂).
Just bought the full Song of Ice & Fire books I’m currently halfway through a Game of Thrones the book not the show. And so far I love it and your vids have taught me so much about the lore of Westeros thank you so much for that sir. I enjoy all your videos and watch them all. We greatly appreciate all that you do I pray and hope your family is well and many blessings to you and your bloodline
"For a moment he could feel their hot breath" interesting, I wonder if this would also bear to mean that Jon will see his mother, because he could also imagine her like that. Maybe as a ghost, no pun intended
"Only death can pay for life" wouldnt apply to Beric because hes no longer alive. His blood no longer flows in his veins. "Only death can pay for life" implies an actual life is gained in return for the blood sacrifice offered i.e. Dany's dragons. Maybe Jon will have a true resurrection different from Beric/Stoneheart/Coldhands where his bodily functions are normal as if he never actually died?
concerning the idea of an egg in the crib.....i would think then, a pregnant woman keeping an egg close to her belly for all of her pregnancy, and then placing the egg in the crib as well, would form an even stronger bond
I really enjoyed the stream and the video and personally I’d love if there was an egg down in the crypts but I think it’ll be more metaphorical with the crypts being the stone and Jon going down there learning his true identity and emerging/being reborn as a dragon.
Why he never had any dream while he lived on Winterfell before going to the wall. Also if that egg is sending him dragon dreams all the way beyond the wall, that's some range.
Jon can literally be a dragon. He is a Targaryen and a Stark (warg), if he can warg into a direwolf, then he can also warg into a dragon. Maybe that's what Martin means by saying Azor Ahai will wake the dragons.
The one problem i have with the dragon egg under winterfell theory is that jon doesnt have these dreams from a young age. Wouldnt he have always had those dreams if there were one there? Unless maybe the crypts are actually connected to tunnels going beyond the wall and there are wards to weaken the bonding effect until he built a bond with ghost
Well timed stream actually, as I had to watch that "10 commandments" movie with Charlton Heston as moses. When he goes up the mountain, he has his normal hair. When he has a spiritual "rebirth" on the mountain (very Quaithe style talking bush scene) he returns to his friends, who see that his hair has suddenly turned white. I guess the "hair changing to indicate the character has undergone a revelation" thing has been a trope for quite some time. I wonder about the mythological background of this.
I just had a realization after thinking about this video for weeks. Regarding the hot springs in Winterfell and Vermax's egg possibly being there, what if Jon and Ygritte's night together symbolized Vermax and some wild dragon living in the hot springs making an egg together. And the Ygritte dragon could be red herself, possibly making the hatchling in the Winterfell crypts red as well. Jon's dragon being red could perfectly encapsulate the Targaryen sigil of a black banner (Night's Watch) behind a red dragon. Not to mention the Jace/Jon parallels of Targaryens with the blood of the First Men. I don't know, is this too tinfoil-hat crazy?
if melisandre really does Jons resurrection, i think it will be a different type of resurrection than the one of Berric Dondarrion. dondarrion is not alive anymore, he is a re-animated corpse, as if his dead body is possessed by his ghost again and again, and he doesnt have heart bit or blood floating anymore. I think with Jon will be something more powerfull, capable to bring Jon really back and be alive again, and thats is why probably, a sacrifice will be necessary.
