2:00:00 I actually strongly disagree with this for one specific reason and that's Samuel. He despises you in High Chaos and I don't believe that he would only give you half the poison.
While I agree that he does despise you in high chaos, Samuel seems like a "devil you know" kind of guy and is probably looking out for his own neck given the Loyalists would probably come for him at some point. He understands Corvo is really the only one who can stop them and perhaps save Emily, who Sam is fond of.
Thankfully Arkane realized the problem with Timothy Brisby and even had him get his just deserts in one of the books. this information is taken from the Dishonoured Wiki [In Dishonored: The Corroded Man Waverly Boyle is revealed to be the canonical subject of Brisby's obsession. It is made public that it was him who kidnapped her in 1837 and took her to his old family estate on an island somewhere. A few years later, on a journey to Gristol, he disappeared, never getting off of the boat he got on. Waverly then took charge of his estate, and his fortune]
Personally played this game over and over again... but have only completed it once. It has good bones but just can't hold my interest for the entirety of the story. I am a bit of a completionist though so I lose a lot of time in the side missions; trying to become an overpowered vampiric badass without 'embracing' people.
I never understood the critique of the combat system. I'm a huge sucker for good combat as a Soulsvet and over 1000hrs in both Niohs. With that said the combat in Vampyr is not bad at all. I think a lot have skill issues (as always). There are easy talent combinations that make it rly smooth and fun. When I watch youtubers it's almost always a bad button mashing.
your section on mesmerizing Dorothy and the way it's not explained to the character are spot on. On my second playthrough I attempted a Paragon run, and got punished for selecting the non lethal option. I felt the game cheated me and never progressed after that section.
Nice reasoning. Killing=Bad is to simple. However The game says nonlethal => low Chaos Chaos ≠ Bad but it's the antagonist of controll The "good end" is emily being in control, of herself and the empire. In ordee for that Corvo has to lower Chaos and in ordeer to achieve that he has to make immoral non-lethal decisions. It's not a moral system. Or at least rhis is a valid way ro read rge game and when there is a valid way that makes sense why critique that some other way that isn't needed doesn't?
Good analysis, I agree in pretty much everything. I'm still positive about it but all that AAA fluff just hampers it and it's a shame because there was stuff they got well and I'd like to see more of this world in the future. The biggest problem for me was the combat. I don't wanna be overly negative, but looks like it should have been cut from the game altogether. There were some nice ideas, like switching between the protagonists, the mutually exclusive skills whilst some of those skills were interesting in theory. But that’s as far as praise goes given how heavily it suffers in execution. Almost none of those skills really reinvigorated the gameplay loop, and with the lackluster enemy variety you had a simple and stagnant system that inevitably got stale quickly. The core mechanics of it all are janky as well, with long animations and input delays, especially the parry felt very inconsistent. The best piece of advice I can give to someone playing Banishers would be to ignore the higher difficulties and approach battles in full attack mode, no defense - game doesn’t really offer reactive combat. There are no difficulty-tied achievements and the only difference is that enemies get spongier so it should be a no-brainer. But yeah, they either should have cut it, or kept it for select few moments like boss fights mayyybe. Judging from the outcome, they should have relied in their other two main gameplay elements instead: puzzles and investigation. Puzzles are hit or miss as they are, they are mostly tied to traversal and are either very simple or a chore like the totems and the vines. But, as you said, in some areas they went bigger and combining those simpler elements they created some slightly more complex puzzles that were enjoyable. There was some nice potential there, and they could have relied more heavily on the co-op elements of it all. As for the investigation, it is typical of any action-adventure game I’ve played in the past few years (The Witcher 3, Horizon games etc). It has you running around looking for trails and clues and your job is finished as soon as you press the interact button with the deduction performed by the player character and you just can’t be wrong. Building the game around a more nuanced investigation system would mesh well with the dark tone of the setup and would (make it necessary to) maintain the mystery that in turn would also keep the story more enticing as it sort of gives itself away a third in. This is not easy to achieve of course, with the narrative branching required, but it should be manageable had they opted for a shorter and more focused experience. And that ties back to how AAA game design tropes did Banishers more harm than good. A framework closer to the scope of Plague Tale Innocence could have helped. Smaller and concise, not afraid to go simple in gameplay, and focused in what it does well. And maybe then it could have had something of the success that Innocence had, as the AA to play for 2024.
The Plague Tale games are an excellent point of comparison and is the video I'm currently working. They have their own flaws but are still a really enjoyable experience.
🤣the least fun you’ll have as a vampire. The more vampire things you do, the more you get brutally punished by the strongest part of the game….the story. What kind of vampire game has your vampire fighting with swords and guns..GTFO. You do too many non-vampirey things in this game. I think this is one of the most adult games though, they talk about politics in a very mature way. Extremely rare in games. How about how extremely weak you are due to the dumb RPG leveling. This skinny weak guard is like an immortal god because the #5 above his head is greater than the #4 above yours. GTFO. What a devastating design choice making the combat all the more worse than 9/11. But the story seduced me and I bought the soundtrack. I never forgot what made the game good.
Piero was supposed to be awkward but highly intelligent. The servant characters are supposed to be forgettable and uninteresting. The Conspirators had wanted power, money, and to cover up the rat plague in a terrifyingly scary realistic way. The Loyalists are supposed to money and power hungry. Very realistic. The Outsider is supposed to be a disinterested godlike being that gives people powers just to see what they'll do.
I love the stealth system. I can hide on a pipe three feet above a guard’s route in plain view of everyone and be safe and not hide in a dark corner I couldn’t see into until I got in it. I understand the concept that humans rarely look up, but it’s a bit jarring in this game. Like the prison break at the start where you are in the hallway where you have to flip the switch to open the big door to outside. I for sure thought the pipe along the wall was going to get me caught for sure. No. The guard that patrols the hallway just merrily walked by. Confusing so after I cleared the place I stood at where the guard’s route ends near the door and looked back. I could easily see where I was hiding without having to look up. The stealth is a bit weird.
While I don't think I agree with all of your points I don't think it'd be easy to answer in a RU-vid comment and quite frankly I don't think I remember all the points you made. I watched this video over the course of two days.
Ahti is a Finnish god of the ocran in folklore - I always assumed he was an interdimensional god because of that. The water imagery is also very strong with him. I don't really think of him as a lazy plot device but I may just be too much of a fangirl. (haven't seen the entire vid yet - I'll keep watching)
@@kaldini Well as it happens, just finished it :) You bring up good points and more imporantly: valid points. I don't like the game less because of it, I kinda like it more. It's always good to know the flaws of your favourite games. You also are incredibly fair in it's assessment - at least imo. Personally, I liked Control more, but perhaps that's just because the only other survival horror game I can compare AW2 to is Re4r (which I liked more than AW2) - and I love Re4r equally as much as Control (they are my favourite games of all time). I also discovered that there's just aspects I simply don't care about - like the case of why Alan landed on the shore in a different time. To me, the explanation that the dark place is a bit timey wimey is enough - I never really considered others being bothered by it. Or by Athi being a mysterious entity. Or in general the dark place fuckery. I guess I personally am not bothered that much by plot holes - at least as long as they are not plot craters. But good to know about them. I didn't notice most of the inconsistencies myself. So... yea I agree with most of your points and good video! (except the musical - I love the musical as much as I love the Ashtray and nothing can change that. Sam Lake you lunatic I love you.) Fun little addon that has nothing to do with the video: Alan Wake got integrated into Dead by Daylight and they wrote his lore like it was canon to what happened in AW2 or well... will happen. I find that incredibly cool personally. They also decided to make it ambiguous if Alan was responsible for the story of DBD. To me it's funny. Silly little writer accidentally creates/summons an eldrich horror to escape another eldrich horror. Also: have sub dude. I love good video essay channels.
@@avocadothecat I worried a lot about coming across too harsh in this video because I genuinely really loved Alan Wake 2. I still listen to the soundtrack and think about it often. I'm also eagerly awaiting the DLCs. Thanks for taking the time to watch both this and the Control video as well as give your thoughts on them. It's appreciated!
Great analysis my friend! Taken me a while to get around to this one but I do agree with everything you’ve said. Rockstar are the masters of building a world but making it puddle deep, which is a shame as this world could’ve been so intense!!
Thanks for watching! It's frankly astounding when you stop and think about the world they built. The wildlife and plants really get me haha. It just ends up getting in the way of an equally (in my opinion) astounding narrative. I definitely prefer the world of Red Dead to GTA, so I'm personally not excited that it'll probably be another 10 years until a new red dead game.
It *is* explained what happens to the weepers under the Hounds Pit Pub. Pierro thanks you for bringing them to him alive as it will help in developing a cure.
Yeah, it needs a sequel. I'm slowy slogging my way through my first playthrough, and I'm close to the end, but it's starting to gnaw away at me. Never have I felt so 50/50 about a game before. My original plan was to play the game twice, once as super evil eat-everyone, and then again with a super good no-embrace. But... If I finish my current run, I'll probably move on to something else and hope for a sequel. If it wasn't a vampire game, I seriously doubt I would have given this game a chance, let alone attempt to finish it. At any rate, good video!
Funny enough I used the steam trick to get the achievement and then had to give Slackjaw the code before he asked for it for the art of the steal achievement. Because I did this, the pendleton twins were actually neutralized and not killed even though I killed both of them with the steam. Trevor thanked me for not killing them but I guess they came back to life to work in the mines.
@@kaldini So I tried to replicate it and it didn't work so it must've been a glitch or something. However, Slackjaw does mention that he appreciates the combination even if you do kill the twins. Weird. Also I do have a question about bodies disappearing, most of the time I knock someone out and then when I come back the body is gone. Is this normal?
@@milliuhn I believe it happens when there's too many unconscious bodies in a zone, some of them disappear in order to help the game run or something technical (don't quote me). It shouldn't impact any mission stats.
People forget that you CAN kill people and still keep low chaos, it just means you cant kill everyone because duh, theres consequences to that. People who complain about how difficult the game gets after killing everything that moves dont want to accept that their actions do matter in the world as a whole. Yeah, you do get achievments for not killing anyone because its EASY to kill everything in your way, you have to actively make the choice to not be just a murderer. Some of the non-lethal options require you to seek out other people and actually work for it. Of course, you're not gonna be rewarded for being a murder hobo, its the easy way out, you dont get a participation trophy for doing the same thing you do in every game ever. You can go to literally any other game and do that. Non-lethal options and complete stealth wasnt even including when development first started, it was an afterthought. The game wasnt made to be complete stealth at the beginning, it was a bonus.
I personally don't think people forgot that that they can kill people, it's that the game strongly encouraged choosing a gameplay style and then sticking to it. Then on top of that there are only consequences for playing in high chaos.
If Vampyr were a linear action-rpg it would be 200% better. The open world aspect is so unnecessary, and at the cost of better graphics and more refined mechanics.
I'm about halfway through the video as of now and i hard agree what you're saying about chaos. But i don't understand what you mean with what you said about being captured by your "admirer" potential stalker being a fate no one deserves? While 2 missions earlier slackjaw says he'll cut out the tounges and shave the head of (two) "noblemen" and put them to probably work to death in some silver mines is okay?
I've mentioned this a couple times in other comments so you can see some discussion if you're more interested, but it's basically this: The Pendleton's "fate" ends up matching their crime. Forced to work in the mine where they made their money, essentially faceless and abused like they did to so many others. Lady Boyles is implied sexual violence, which is worse in my opinion (which I've since learned not everyone agrees with) and it also isn't a fitting punishment. It reads like the developers wanted something shocking and edgey and decided that their only woman target could just have sexual abuse for the rest of her life. Arkane themselves have even stated that they wished they hadn't done it and they allowed the retcon of it in one of the novels: making it canon that Lady Boyle outlived her stalker and inherited all of his wealth. Hope that clears up my position.
@@kaldini Well first of all thank you for answering quickly and respectfully despite having answered a couple other comments with the same :) But i don't see where it's implied that it's sexual or violence? neither seems to be implied from what i see. It's odd to me that they'd just retcon it just like that, simply stating that sexual violence was in fact not the outcome would be enough? unless it was stated somewhere that that was actually what happened?
@@kaldini I found another comment now where you answered a similar question to mine and also expressed disappointment at that people seem to focus on the moral question rather than your other takes, i'd like to bring forth that your takes on what should have been with the chaos system is all around good takes in my opinion.
I love a little lore tidbit where it’s described how vampires don’t die when exposed to the sun but slowly crumble to a blackened skeleton only to regenerate when the sun goes down. It’s a horrifically painful experience and to me it’s a perfect blend between the original literary vampires not having any weakness to sunlight and the now cliche turning to ashes when exposed to the sun. 10:38 and its mentioned 4 minutes later 😂😂
Great game and amusingly I had no idea that the blood meter could be replenished until AFTER I fought the first boss in the Pembroke Hospital Morgue lol. Kept wondering why my heal ability wasn't working and could only be used 2 or 3 times until I noticed the bite icon showing up and figured it out. You are right though as a day/night cycle could've made things even more interesting however how that would work as a plus for the game rather than an inconvenience you could just skip by sleeping until nightfall is anybody's guess. It would've been nice to see London town in daylight though and it could've been used as a nudge to get to a safehouse rather than just going there to restock and skill up. Like a reverse Dying Light mechanic. Fast travel would've been nice but I can see how they didn't do it given how small the map is and the fact you would miss all the fights in between getting to different locations. I will say however that like most games today it does feel like the end was rushed as you mentioned with the pointless choices near the end where it should've mattered. It did make the whole thing feel pointless at the end and that's a real shame considering how much time you put into this game making choices. The plot was flawed from the start with the Doris Crane outcome because it didn't even matter what you did with her because Lady Ashbury is an integral part of the story. Charm, Embrace or fire her the outcome is pretty much the same. BTW has anyone actually managed to achieve Sanitized status on a single district? I embraced 4 bastards and kept healing the rest and still couldn't get the district past Stable and the Pembroke was always around Healthy to Stable.
As far as my research and own gameplay suggest, the only way to reach Sanitized is if all the Citizens are alive, and you've chosen to Spare the Pillar. It seems like you "Unlock" the ability to gain the Sanitized status for a District after making the major story choice with their respective Pillars. But I'm not 100% on that.
I stopped playing at chapter 3 right before you find Sean, I'm glad I happened upon this video. Because while the setting and the plot was interesting, I couldn't stand the actual gameplay mechanics. Great video!
The player does have a reason to turn Dawson: It helps them stay on good terms with the Ascalon Club. Admittedly this doesn’t have any real effect but it makes sense from an in character point of view. We don’t know that King Arthur’s blood can turn people because to my knowledge the game never states that stored blood can turn people. Embracing Clarence’s wife does have a gameplay consequence he won’t accept medicine from you.
As you stated yourself, neither really had an actual impact. The point I was making is that many of choices don't have actual, real, meaningful impacts to the gameplay or narrative.
@@kaldini Alright maybe I wasn’t clear enough in my original comment what I mean is that while the player has no incentive to turn Dawson the character of Jonathan Reid does.
@@blinstales1554 I got what you meant but I appreciate you reexplaining it. What I meant was that even in theory if it surface level makes sense for Dr. Reid to consider it, it actually even narratively ends up being pointless. Even if you've pissed the Ascalon club off by refusing, you're still able to acquire the blood in the finale without fighting. So there's no benefit to turning him. I'd also argue that Dr. Reid would not consider the value in turning him, even in regards to remaining in the club's good graces as from the moment they're introduced Jonathan shows contempt for them. Lady Ashbury discourages it and it's clear from his pre-decision discussion with Dawson that Jonathan understands he is selfish and would do more harm. So in my opinion, no there's no real reason Dr. Reid, the character, would turn him.
Great critique again my friend! Like many others, I was intrigued by this one but was disappointed to hear about the poor combat and weak side quests. It seems a shame not support indie devs but I will wait for a deep sale on this. Hope you’re doing well and look forward to the next one!
Appreciate you checking out the video and commenting. Doing well on my end - beginning the scripting for the next project on the Plague Tale games. Any games in particular you'd like to see covered?
@@kaldini anytime man! The Plague Tale games are great, perhaps the more linear style that Banishers should have taken. Look forward to that one! Have you considered Disco Elysium? I don’t know your feelings towards text-heavy games but even if not for a critique, it’s an utterly fantastic experience. To this day I still think about my first playthrough!
I won't give any specifics because I've changed my mind in the past, but it should be very soon. Next up is a video on the Plague Tale series, so if you like the atmosphere and mystical side of dishonored than maybe this one will also be of interest!
You can play a lethal stealth run and still get low chaos though... Dishonored 2 limited the chaos system by making it that you had to be nonlethal to keep chaos low
All the whinging about chaos and the stealth system as far as the "you're supposed to play it in stealth" is concerned is a pleb take. It's open to let you play whichever way you fancy, and if you're enjoying high chaos then having it reflected in the "bad" ending and world changes links in well with the fun you'll be having playing as a magical slaughtering machine. Sure the whole "violence bad, huggle dungeon good" angle was too simplistic, but overall the world building makes up for this simplicity.
i was super excited about this but decided to pass on it once impressions began coming out. Yet another awesome setting and idea hamstrung by shoehorned in combat. We had the advent of the walking sim and then the genre became oversaturated and began to receive pushback on it being too boring and lacking interactivity. "movie games" as they were derisively called. So many games that seem to have been mostly conceived as narrative driven have since shoehorned in combat mechanics that only serve to make the good parts of the game harder to access. I feel like these devs (especially given the success of their other property life is strange) need to trust that there is an audience for narrative driven, atmospheric games that while more interactive than a walking sim, dont necessarily need combat mechanics. I feel similarly about Spiders. Greedfall and steel rising both have really cool settings but their combat just never feels quite right. Its always a bit clunky. Steel rising was definitely much better and I have high hopes for Greedfall 2. Interestingly there was a game in a similar vein to banishers called the Thaumaturge that came out recently. It had turn based combat but ive heard similarly mixed reviews where the story is good, but combat is a bit of a slog. I look at something like outer wilds as the gold standard for what im hoping for. Incredible narrative, exploration, world building etc with no combat to speak of. Closest you get is some stealth segments in the DLC. But i was consitently engaged and found navighating the world rewarding and fun from a gameplay perspective. But the overwhelming driver was wanting to discover every nook of the world they created. I feel like banishers could have been something similar. More of a detective/choices matter type game with maybe a few setpiece sequences if they wanted some action. Ah well. Maybe ill check it out on deep sale some day but theres just so much competing for our time and money these days that its hard.
Well said. Funny you bring up the Thaumaturge because I was keeping my eye on it. It's another game that seems right up my alley but I am also a bit worried about the combat. I think with Banishers, if they had just turned it into a linear experience like tlou or uncharted that would've helped it in almost every regard. Combat could've still existed but wouldn't have felt so tedious because it wouldn't have had as long of a runtime as well as no need for enemies to constantly respawn. Also would've forced them to strip out the worst of the open world side content. Fingers crossed that Don't Nods *next* game in this genre learns these lessons haha. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I'd say that it still has style. The setting and atmosphere are terrific. The ghosts look cool. Interesting main characters. But yeah, on almost every other mechanical level I found it to be lesser than Vampyr.
Can't wait to watch this over my next three meals. Loved vampyr, ambitious and innovative social circle/pillar structure, even enjoyed the combat, very curious what the critique will be like
@@kaldinidefinitely will! So far very good analysis, your suggestions on how to improve the systems and specific embrace/turn choices are incredibly fitting and a bit bittersweet they weren’t originally in the game
Thank you. I love your video its on point. You must have so much suffering while cutting all together. And its so high quality. Good cuts on point commentary. Sometimes i want to complain but then i think how long would this be without this cut there. You made a masterpiece and its glourious to see. Thank you for investing your time in this video. I also love the dishonored video so much. I think i had watched each 20 times at this moment and i wont stop. I have around 1300hours played this game and didnt finished once but maybe this time. I was always distracted and also feared. If i finish i have to end the game so i only have seen the end in youtube videos❤❤❤❤
i feel like a simple fix for a lot of the issues surrounding player choices is to remove the chaos system. The devs made morality black and white while the choices themselves can be very morally gray.
4 minutes in. your an idiot. your entire argument is based around high chaos being bad. and that other games just avoided labeling their "routes" as good or bad. so did arcane CHAOS not EVIL. your choices do not change the story only how fucked dunwall is when emily takes over. ontop of all this it is very easy to swap between low and high chaos even if you don't know why. if you have a change of heart and stop killing people for whatever reason the last level is packed with so many enemies that you often change to low chaos if your actively avoiding killing people. the line is also flexable enough to allow for both murders and saving people and still staying on the route you want. The worst you can say is they could have emphasized things a little better then (two i think?) pop up messages.
Just seeing this now - appreciate being called an idiot. Respectfully, you're just factual wrong with a number of points you made, which tells me you likely didn't watch more than 4 minutes in because I show evidence for every single one of my claims. 1. Chaos *is* treated as the stand in for morally evil. Example I give in the video (which you likely didn't watch) is with Hiram Burrows' mission. High chaos would be to reveal his crimes to the empire. This would absolutely be worse for Dunwall than killing him, which should be low chaos. The game is too focused on killing never being considered the better option, that despite them calling it "chaos" it is just morality. If you personally disagree, that's fine I suppose, but factually there are only consequences for the assassinations not the non-lethals, which indicates that Arkane treated it as essentially low chaos = good, high chaos = bad. 2. It is not possible to change from high chaos to low chaos once you start mission 7. In the video (which you likely didn't watch) I performed a run where I was acting in high chaos, had the twist occur, and then swapped to low chaos (as a potential stand in for the mindset that perhaps someone thinks the twist occurred because of their violence). In this run King Sparrow island was still in high chaos setting and the high chaos ending was still the outcome. 3. I understand that the game allows for both some murder and some saving people - however the way gameplay is structured, meaning the abilities you earn, actually hurts this idea. Again, I discuss this in the final section on gameplay and give evidence (which you likely didn't watch). Hope this clears up some confusion you seemed to have!
This game is way better then people give it credit. The dialogue is crazy good. Just listening to NPCs in the background give hints to quests. Plus the fact that you can fail dialogue without save scumming is great. You need to listen to everyone's emotions. Great game. Who cares about the combat. If that's what your into then your playing the wrong type of game.
I love the DLCs so much I like the story and characters kind of more, and the whalers were probably the coolest part of the base game and I feel they explore it a little more maybe not enough. But all the books and notes you can read about Daud and his men are really interesting. The level design and gameplay is also really good like the base game. Also I like daud's powers a lot.
Stop quantifying your thoughts about art or game design with "I'm no artist" and "I'm no game designer" You can have opinions and thoughts on those things without being proficient in it. You can know not to smash your hand with a hammer having never done it
Very good but I disagree with being punished for being a vampire, since you are rewarded by it: - Killing people makes you a stronger vampire, specially if you are evil, serving like a curse and lost of humanity - Trying to resist it is possible but lets you weaker, you struggle in game because he is struggling against the curse What you cant is be a vampire hero, since killing anyone even if they are bad, is morally gray on human society and would in theory strengthen your curse.
