The trek to the Brighamites. Sad they came across thinking they would join Joseph's world and ended up in the dictatorship of Brigham Young and his sick world of polygamy and fear.
There should have been a microphone at the front of the auditorium, for the Q&A. They who wanted to ask a question could have formed a queue, thereby facilitating audible questions.
the world never built a monument to critic. paul harvey when you ridicule, you lose all credibility... i have a dozen ancestors who personally knew the Prophet Joseph, not one ill word was spoken of him... and i have my own experiences and testimony ... i admonish you to be careful to false ppl like this man
I never thought to think of proofs of why the later vision accounts are obviously a later addition to Mormonism. But he makes very good points for why these don't make sense in an earlier context.
Remarkable to hear his admission (around 1:14:00) that, after 50 years of studying Joseph Smith he came to the conclusion that "Joseph Smith is a con man all the way through."
The Mormon church is the most evil of them all I knew their Adam Archangel Michael God for many years supernatural every day but I was the Target like Joseph Smith but times ten thousand times? I realized I was what they were after and the plan was to make me believe in them as my God? But to many lies so I had them destroyed by Lillith and our forces, we won destroyed them all already Jesus was the Antichrist but ok Jesus was Amun Ra Reincarnated the Jews were his enemy so they Killed him and hijacked the idea from there. Adam Archangel Michael God was pushing he was the Father to Jesus with Joseph Smith but I knew all this by myself I am a Diviner so I knew everything about the whole thing.
Audio quality was really bad, I chose to stop listening unfortunately, despite wanting to know more. If there is a better version in terms of sound I'd appreciate the link :)
The Tanners have been teaching for decades that there were no revivals during the time period JS was 'testifying' about, now we are being told about Methodist revivals going strong. I trust this account, but what happened with the Tanners?
If the one-ear audio bothers you: On a Mac: 1. Click on the apple 2. Click on System Preferences 3. Click on Accessibility 4. Click on Audio 5. Click on the check box next to "Play stereo audio as mono"
In response to Grant Palmer. I admit yes there are and we don't have all the answers, (I like to know what really happened at the Sacred Grove) but IT HAPPENED. I haven't seen God orJesus Christ that doesn't mean they don't exist. there are always incompleteness. that doesn't mean it didn't happened. Joseph had that sacred grove experience. Joseph and others have had many confirmations about it. What about thousands of spiritual assurances of the members? Martin, Oliver and David also saw Angel Moroni and the gold plates. There are too many MULTIPLE spiritual experiences by the members. Main thing is that "it happened". it is not only Joseph and his words but spiritual confirmations (testimonies) of millions of others who have received their own testimonies.
"We are told that some of the “very elect” will be enticed and deceived. Couldn’t this “very elect” include your sons and daughters including any member of Christ's Church even though through baptism they have already accepted Christ as their Savior? Wouldn’t the evil one concentrate on them if he found a weakness or an opportunity?" Elder David B. Haight I wish Grant Palmer would elaborate on Christ's ministry in the spirit world which undoubtedly and biblically gives hope to the billions who have not heard of the Savior. The Redemption of the Dead and the Testimony of Jesus. See ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fvQ-gI4ihKc.html See also ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--ko6_HHXx0o.html and ComeUntoChrist.org
Christians also believe that all will be given the chance to accept Jesus as their Savior. This is not unique to Mormonism. Are there some that believe you have to accept a belief in Jesus in this life only to get into heaven? Yes. But that’s a lack of understanding the biblical text. Any religion that stresses that there is some kind of special outward ordinance that WE can do (after the law was fulfilled) to solidify a place in heaven completely belittles Jesus’ sacrifice as insufficient. Especially if that ordinance somehow commits you in every way to the organization due to its “only power” to perform it. The church makes you promise your allegiance to IT by making you believe that your relationship with God and the church are one in the same and can’t be separated. Even baptism is not a saving ordinance but an outward expression and a sign of aligning our Will with His that we can experience in this life of our dedication to follow Jesus and symbolic of being cleansed from our sin through His sacrifice but it does not SAVE us. Only a belief in Jesus Christ does. There are many examples of people being saved through faith alone in the Bible. God desires a relationship with us. A one on one deep union that transforms our hearts and makes us new people. It was only when I recognized the Bible for what it is, as the pure word of God, that I developed this relationship. I was taught that it was “only as true as it was translated correctly” and was put low on the totem pole of importance. It’s history is rich, a unified story that leads to Jesus, and yes, is man made yet so incredibly divine. Does the Book of Mormon teach of Jesus? Yes. But that doesn’t make it what it claims to be. If you compare the gospel as taught in the Bible to the gospel taught by the LDS church it is another gospel. You test things by comparing them to God’s word and this gives discernment. If we just pray for feelings...it’s such an easy way to be deceived. Anything that asks you to believe in it or just the testimony of others that believe in it until you can have a testimony yourself (and to not read anything outside of it that might make you “fall away” from IT) is more concerned about its survival than the survival of your relationship with God. You have to confirm again and again that you want to release “your promises” to the church when you want your name removed. Think about it. How is that a one on one relationship with God? They get RIGHT in the middle of it. So many struggle to have a relationship with God once leaving because they’ve been taught all their lives that it’s either the church or nothing because all the others are wrong. Are there good people in the church and some of the fruits of it good? Yes! God looks on the heart and there are truths that bear fruits but we can’t get caught up in thinking that the LDS church somehow has a monopoly on them or somehow makes the whole part of it “true”.
Lots of false similarities. If "The Late War" troubles you, please do more research. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jqu9V9J-jDQ.html www.fairmormon.org/answers/Book_of_Mormon/Plagiarism_accusations/The_Late_War Here is also another video. Check between 4:45 and 8:25 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QKMWYMGunIg.html
If I may... As a convert for many years I said in a portion of my testimony that the ".... Holy Spirit came to me in the bottom of the sea and put His arm around me and brought me up...up...up out of the water, high into the clouds where....". For 30 years I said that sentence that way. It is even recorded in my journal that way. But as I grew in my knowledge of the gospel I realized that a 'spirit' can not physically rescue me up as it has no tangible body; so what was the entity that came to me in the bottom of the sea (in my testimonial revelation/rock)? Why... It had to be an 'ANGEL' ! Now whenever (rarely) I bear my testimony I say "...and an ANGEL came to me in the bottom of the sea and put his arm around me and brought me up...up...up out of the water, high into the clouds where ... ". So I ask... just because I interpreted my testimony at first according to my limited and carnal/physical knowledge of that time's personal understanding... does it make the overall truthfulness of my testimony any less significant? No! As we become more knowledgeable of gospel principles our faith paradigm changes or even grows greater and we perceive GREATER instances of TRUTH than we once did. Joseph Smith's first vision as a boy expanding into his more mature version as an adult proves the ever culmination of truth is much like a beautiful colorful flower unfolding revealing deeper, brighter hues. God bless my friend and first Elder of this dispensation Joseph Smith. What an incredible teacher! We all interpret religion with a carnal (physical) mind instead of with the Spirit that will teach us all things. Merry Christmas 2020
@Jeff Carlin Not nice try. They EXIST. I've experienced it for myself. I can not provide you the 'proof' you need to know for an a surety for yourself... (its not my job) but I have ALL the proof I need and your opinion while I understand is important to you... means NOTHING to what I've been fortunate to have seen and experienced. "If you find fault in the Words of our Father perhaps it is in the way it has been presented to you, or according to the measure of your understanding... and not necessarily in the message itself"
After 50 years of being a Mormon and suffering the guilt and fear that the church instilled in me and others, I am free. Jesus is the way and that is the message you need for a new life.
@@herbofallon965 Because they are suffering from generational brainwashing and they lose their community and friends when they leave. Only GOD can draw people out of a cult.
We can grow up from one intelligence to another. That baby can grow up and become an adult. We can grow up and become like our Heavenly eternal Father in heaven. I am only one and the Father of my children that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. The same is true with our Heavenly Father He is only one and the Father of our spirits. That does not mean that there cannot be more fathers in heaven to. The essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. Why call Him Heavenly Father unless He is. The great prophet Joseph Smith was right .Every sence this spinning blue planet was created and all the worlds of our Heavenly Father anytime we as real children of real Heavenly parents have desired to grow up and become more like our Heavenly parents God has always called or worked through true living prophets teachers. Love
Why are you picking on the great prophet Joseph Smith. He to has his personal weaknesses to overcome to grow up and become more. No he was not a con. Man just a strong man that was trying to overcome his weaknesses to do the will of God. I know that Jesus is the Christ the savior of the whole world. People found fault with Christ and crusified Him but he had the truth. Yes all truth and weaknesses will be reviled we have them as part of Gods grace to grow up and become more. That baby can grow up and become an adult we can grow up and become like our Heavenly Father..you could not develop faith if you new everything and if you new everything you would be a God. You are not a God but nearther is a baby an adult. .we are here to grow up and become more like our Heavenly Father. Who cares about all this other garbage. Why regurgitate so much stilupid garbage ..love let's all repent .
Who cares about all this garbage when we all know that we all have the right to grow up and become more like our Heavenly Father...Grant Palmer reminds me of those who found fault with Christ and crusified Him just because Christ did not live up to their expectations. In our growing up processes we all have the right to make mistakes hopefully we learn from them. Truth about things is that we are all real children of real Heavenly parents. Truth is that the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. That baby can grow up and become an adult. We can grow up and become like our Heavenly parents. You could not develop faith if you new everything and if you new everything you would be a God. You are not a God but nearther is a baby an adult. I am only one and the Father of my children that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. The same is true with our Heavenly Father He is only one and the Father of our spirits that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers in heaven to. Again the essence of life is growth and to become and to overcome. God is our Heavenly Father. We all lived with our Heavenly parents before we came to earth to develop faith. Get a body and go through experiences and learning lessons to grow up and become more like our Heavenly parents. I say parents because we all keep our bodies after resurrection. Why come to earth get a body if we can not keep it after resurrection. Grant Palmer is a ideit for finding fault with Christ and His true prophet Joseph Smith. God our Heavenly Father is the one who has the right to forgive sins and to chose His true living prophets. This is one more point of reasoning. I have never read or heard of a perfect prophet. And not one of them are perfect according to everyone's expectations .it is our weaknesses that keep us from God and listening to His true living prophets and apostles today and in the past .we are all here to grow up and become like our Heavenly parents. One more thing God has a pateran of working through and with His chosen prophets. He is the one who chooses them not ourselves thinking that we are wiser or we have the right to choose them according to our sins and weak desires and pride .it is not my church or Grant palmers .it is the church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints. Not some other mans and his set of weaknesses. It is Lord Jesus's church ..No matter how much pride or self knowledge one may have..God pateran is ever since this spinning blue planet was created and all the worlds of our Heavenly Father anytime we as real children of real Heavenly parents have desired to want to grow up and become more God our Heavenly Father has always called and worked through true living prophets regardless of their weaknesses rebellion and weaknesses. They to have the right to learn and grow through their weaknesses mistakes and experience. Truly it is our weaknesses that keep us from God. Again the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. That baby can grow up and become an adult we can grow up and become like our Heavenly Father.. I am only one and the Father of my children that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. God our eternal Heavenly Father is only one and the Father of our spirits. That does not mean that there cannot be more fathers in heaven to. There is not limit to space the limits we have is our weaknesses and our pride in not listening to Christ and His true living prophets and apostles today..Gods true living prophets and apostles today. God is our Father in heaven why call Him Heavenly Father unless He is. You could not develop faith if you new everything and if you new everything you would be a God you are not a God but nearther is a baby an adult..we are here on this spinning blue planet to overcome ore weaknesses and we all have enough of our own without finding fault with Christ and His true living and dead prophets. Now let's go to the holy bible. I know that the holy bible is true. But I have never read anywhere in the holy bible where Christ Himself did any writing except for in the sand so who wrote the holy bible true prophets and apostles of our Lord and savior Christ. So if Christ Himself did not do any writing except for in the sand. The holy bible was written by holy men true prophets of God. All of them testify of Christ .so if the holy bible was written by true prophets of God and it is very important to read it. It is also very important to read the book of Mormon. For both of them testify of Christ our Lord and savior..I also know that the earth was divided geniuse 10 25 .I know that God our Heavenly Father did have some of His children on this side of the world. I know that God had some of His spirit children have on this side of the world true prophets on both sides of the world testifying that Jesus is Lord the savior of the whole world..I know that Mormon was a real man and a true prophet of God also Alma Mosiah Nephi Abenidi lehi and meney others. Both the holy bible and the book of Mormon testifying that Jesus is Lord the savior of the whole world. I know that it is our weaknesses that keep us from God and that we have enough of our own weaknesses to work on we do not need to be finding fault with Christ and His true prophets living or dead. Some of us sure have a lot of pride thinking we know more . Again it is mans weaknesses that keep us from God. If we new everything we would be Gods we are not Gods but nearther is a baby an adult. We are here on this spinning blue planet to grow up and become more like our Heavenly Father. It is railways better to look for the good reather than finding fault with Christ and His true prophets. I know that Jesus is the Christ the savior of the whole world. I know that Joseph Smith was one of Christ great prophets..I know it just look at all the stupid misinformed people who find fault with Christ and His great prophet Joseph Smith. God has always called and worked through true living prophets..Grant palmer and all of us His need to repent and to accept more of God's grace and love. So let's all grow up and repent for ourselves and the potential of us all as real children of real Heavenly parents. Love
Ron Let me ask you a question or two if we have Heavenly Parents and they are Flesh and Bones How is it we just come out a fluttering spirit ? What happened to the flesh and bones ? Why would anyone worship a Father God who was once a sinful man ? The Holy Bible. John 8:23 Jesus said to a crowd, You are from Beneath clay dirt I am from Above. Heaven You are of this World our orgin I am not of this World. Creator Jesus claim that no one has seen the Father but him. Well if we were spirit babies I believe we would of seen the Father If you can't back up your claim with biblical scripture then it is not the truth . make it exegesis Peace
No it's Mormon History The BoM is Rightous Fiction Mormonism is not Christian Mormonism is a. Counterfeit Gospel Paul said to Galatians , If I or an angel preach a different gospel Let them be an anathema Muhammad saw an angel wrote the Quran Smith saw an angel wrote the BoM Those angels were fallen angels The Holy Bible stands alone as God's Word Peace
@@binren3984 Joseph Smith didnt write anything he translated a record of ancient inhabitants of America. Sires that are named in the b.o.m have just been unearthed by non mormon archaeologists. Say what you want but you cant touch proof
@@angiehille4207 believe what you. Angie. I know that Smith told a story to his scribes and you bought the ridiculous story If it were true 600ad is not that far back there would be proof . there is zero proof and that's your burden. Why was an ancient record of major importance kept hidden and a secret ? Cause it was a prop. Why would that record that was buried in the ground suppoely for 1200 years have to go back to Heaven ? How convenient for Smith. At least the Holy Bible has textual proof I stand on the evidence of facts that Smith was a pathological liar The middle east is Bible Country. not Book of Mormon. Country. Your fictional characters left at the Tower of Babel and 400 years before Christ . Right that seems legit. So where are these civilizations ? Where is Zarahemla ? Where are these Lamanites that cover all the Americans that are Jewish ? DNA markers don't disappear like golden plates to Heaven. Peace Peace
It’s important because it illustrates one of the many many ways JS was a false prophet and con man who adapted his theology to suit his circumstances and himself.
Nutty? By the way, Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''. That video DEBUNKED the hostile anti-Book of Abraham info from the nutty anti-Mormon crowd by demonstrating Joseph Smith's translation/explanation of the Book of Abraham Egyptian sensen text papyri characters were never supposed to concur with the translation from that of the Egyptological field to begin with.
@@richardholmes7199 I'm here trying to stop you from lying. I will send you something that will stop you on this ugly crusade your on. Your defense is weak and dishonest . And this information it's what the general authorities keep it on the low down. Cause it exposes Joseph Smith as a fraud and a Liar. Just do yourself one simple thing believe in Christ Alone Don't stop believing in Jesus Jesus Christ is for real Give me a few minutes to dig it up this from your Church so it's not Anti Mormon We have become friends I want you to come to Jesus not lies
@@richardholmes7199 There's a Notebook called valuable discovery. There are two stories on Smith meeting Chandler But it doesn't matter cause it still pulls out the truth Smith meet with Chandler and asked if he could examine the rolls over night , Chandler agreed. Smith went to his study and started translation this is what some of the characters said Katumin Princess, daughter of On-I-tas King of Egypt who began reign in the year of the world 2962 Katumin was born in 30th year of the reign of her father and died when she was 28 years old which was in the year of 3020. Here's what the Egyptian Hieratic characters mean by modern Egyptologists - Recitation of Osiris Valueable Discovery Notebook Now quit defending the undefendable. Stay a Mormon but quit lying Lying is a sin
Amazing....in 2002 I had questioned the Book of Mormon’s 1830 differences compared to the current Book of Mormon. I was most concerned with the difference In Jesus as Father and Son which is technically Modalism, as compared to the Father and Son being separate persons...No one understood what I was trying to say.....Thank you Grant Palmer....finally someone understands..... thank you! God Bless you by brother in Christ! RIP
Never been a Mormon. I'd heard of the handcart expeditions, but I'd always thought it was more incompetence or ignorance than malicious. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. It's horrifying to contemplate.
does anyone have the outline of this talk?.. the link in the read more above says not found-- "For the outline of this talk, visit: mormonthink.com/grant12.htm "
Mosiah 15:3. The Doctrine was clear from the start. I could find verse after verse like this, but that's enough. You're intentionally leaving full references. You're also not fully quoting each account of the first vision. What's your hidden sin? Because there's something there and you know it. Come back to the fold and repent.
Too much propaganda in this. He picks and chooses to try and make his point. Study things for yourself to find the truth, don't listen to some other person. The information is out there for anybody who wants to read.
