Cider with Kevin is all about the joy of brewing delicious hard cider and experimenting with different interesting ingredients. If you would like to learn and grow your skills as a cider maker, come join the community and we can grow together!
Thanks, this has been a frustrating thing for me also and I will try your method. If I wanted to pasteurize before adding the agar and not add the stabilization PM, would that work just as well? My friends and family prefer a more clear cider?
Force carbonation kills the cider in terms of flavor. But since you are starting from industrial juices I wouldnt even bother calling it a cider in the first place so go for it
wow you'd think different people have different tastes but whenever i try to look up some yeast comparisons people make cote des blanc always gets the first place every. single. time. too bad i can only find american sellers for it,does anyone know any europan online shop that sells it? i *really* want to give it a try at this point
Doing my first cider now. Was planning 10psi safale 05 at 75F in order to speed up the process. First off its not getting going as fast as my beer brews. Usually by now im seeing activity. Added fermaid o also. Its been 24 hours and pretty much zero activity. Is this normal for cider? Thanks
So you have your spunding valve set to 10psi and you haven't seen any gas pressure, or are you applying 10 psi to it constantly? Confused by your process here. The activity you see will be small bubbles and the gas pressure on your spunding valve rise to 10psi. That shouldn't take much longer than 2 days. I usually see it after a day.
@CiderWithKevin I applied 10psi initially to set the valve. Surprisingly it didn't drop, but it's also not releasing anything. Either it's super slow or nothing much is going on. I got more yeast an nutrients today an just put those in. Kind of has a bit of a sour smell after 3 days sitting in my garage. Dunno, but it may be ruined. The juice was around 50f when I pitched the yeast. Maybe I killed it, no idea. The yeast I just threw in already seems to be active and bubbling after only a few minutes. Time will tell, but this may have been a $50 learning experience that goes straight down the drain. I'll try to come back with an update in a few days
@richardcagle5475 the only thing that makes sense is dead yeast or an under pitch. With a healthy ferment, it should smell of apples and yeast from the spunding valve outlet.
@CiderWithKevin okay I think maybe it was doing something the whole time. There's no krausen at all, which really threw me, but the initial charge of co2 seemingly not being absorbed should've been a clue that some was being produced. I think it was just really slow starting. Either way, it's fully going now. Smells a bit sulfurous though. Like apples, but with a twang, if that makes sense. Is this normal? I really have very little idea what I'm doing here. Thanks for the replies.
@richardcagle5475 that is what s05 smells like with cider ferms. So if the initial co2 does not get absorbed or usually means that something is producing it. Krausen is not always present.
as he said in the final note, before clarification with agar agar it should be stabilized, for example with potassium metabisulfite (hence killing the yeast)
This would actually be a feature even if I did bottle condition. You usually should pitch a small amount of yeast for bottle conditioning just to ensure that it occurs. The short answer is that the small amount of boiling liquid is unlikely to raise the temperature of the cider to pasteurization temperature.
Would there be an off flavor if the agar ferments? If I were planning on force carbing, could I agar in the fermenter before transferring to the serving keg and adding sulfites and sorbates? Only 2 grams of agar shouldn't ferment much, I'd think.
I love huckleberries so much, it's such a shame all the domestication efforts have failed. I make sure to stock up on huckleberry jam and syrup when I'm visiting my family out west. I'll have to try this one out, I'm sure it's delicious
I'm assuming that's how got the name for cartoon character as he too eats his own berries? lol Still, I never heard of these berries but sounds nice as a cider. I won't be surprised if someone able to combo Huckleberries with Blueberries and Blackberries plus Elderberries lol Keep on creative mate! I felt making syrup as backup flavouring/sweeting was better method than just throw them in there before fermenting, then flavour becomes dry. Feels refreshing hearing some music for change!
oh man, I'm super jealous of you being able to get orchard apples for 50 cents a pound! I've got a handful of orchards around me in southwestern minnesota, but $1 a pound is a great sale price, and most varieties tend to be around $2 a pound sadly. I'm curious, is that the normal price over there, or did you get a discount for buying almost 70 pounds of apples? super glad I found your channel, there aren't enough cider focused channels with high quality content
I know the owner, but I'm not inclined to ask for a discount when I'm getting apples at such a bargain! That is, in fact, the normal price. Happy to have you here. Thanks for coming to the channel :)
Started batch after your recipe yesterday but pectic enzyme prior to fermentation. My version: 1.5L UK apple conc 8.5L fresh sweet cider 4.0L leftover cider 7.5L water 5 tsp malic acid Realized I didn't have yeast packet so allowing a spontaneous ferment, maybe residual Cote des Blancs yeast from last batch leftovers will take or who knows Question is: I tried the diluted UK concentrate and it's incredibly tannic. Really made me second guess the recipe. Does this mellow over time? It is really different
Alright, just to verify: 12.5L sweet cider to 8.5L bittersweet cider. 42.5% bittersweet. I don't have my recipe up, butI would say that's in the ballpark of correct for an Austere, C1B style cider. Key word being Austere. It's going to be highly tannic. It will mellow slightly with age, but it will remain austere as that is the style. Personally, very tannic is my preference, but if you've only ever had sweet, low tannin cider, it is wildly different. The flavor on the cider does change a lot with Conditioning.
@@CiderWithKevin I've had many different commercials ciders, including those claiming to be traditional and heritage and so on. I assumed some of these would have been as tannic as your recipe but apparently this style is quite unique as far as what's commercially available. Anyway, will let it age for a few more months and then try it and maybe backsweeten or blend into a new batch
@teamearleracing4782 I'm concerned that you think it's too tannic. Heirloom Ciders are not the same as traditional cider. Traditional cider can be bittersweet (what this is). Bittersweet cider is very much an acquired taste. Some commercial examples that have similar tannins: www.libertycider.com/ Anything in the artisan series. A couple things to note: has fermentation even started? You said you went with a wild fermentation rather than the recommended cider yeast. That does have an impact. Also, choosing to not use a MLF as in the recipe will have a major impact on final flavor. The MLF makes the cider more smooth and buttery. Just give it time. If it's not too your preference, blend it as you stated. Also, did you try the must or the diluted concentrate?
@@CiderWithKevin Yeah, I think I'll let it ferment to dry and then assess. If the cider is too sharp, I could introduce the MLF culture and allow another few months of evolution. Perhaps it already would've undergone a wild/partial MLF at that point because I'm aging on lees in cellar at 65 or so.
How do you sample the must with that fancy tube and hydrometer? I like that idea of not needing to baster it into a graduated cylinder for a gravity checks.
That's actually one piece of equipment I don't recommend. They're called wine thieves, and in principle they're good. In actual use, they only really work for large volume vessels. I'd stick to a baster and cylinder
good to know. I got my first cider with pineapple from concentrate and its cleaning finally! thank you for the help. Cider seems to ferment much easier than mead. @@CiderWithKevin
How do you get the tank and regulator? Is it on Amazon. I guess it is connected with a ball lock to the keg? Maybe I could find a mini regulator so I can use my soda stream tank?
For the tanks: I'd recommend seeing what the local gas supply shops in the area have. That's where you'll need to get refills from. The regulator in using is a Komos regulator. Tubing is evabarrier 8mm. Fittings are duotight ffl. Ball lock valves with mfl *threaded not barbed.
@@CiderWithKevin what are the two gauges for on the regulator? My mini only has one. Oh wait I looked it up. One is the pressure of the tank so you know how much gas you have left and one is the pressurizing of the keg gauge.
@@CiderWithKevindo you serve at the same pressure or at a lower level? I get a lot of foam off my picnic tap at 30psi but I love the high carbonation. The flow control on the ball lock is nice for keeping it at one psi.
@AM2PMReviews 30 psi is way too much pressure to serve at! Most likely to much to carb at too! What temp are you carbing at? I don't see how you get anything but foam at that pressure.
Great job! I wish I knew all this stuff. I didn’t know you could ferment and keep the co2 for transferring to a keg. I thought it had to be with an airlock so it wouldn’t carbonate to help the yeast work and then bottle it to carb it.
yes I just thought it would stall because the yeast would choke. I usually have to degass to get a mead completed. Do you have any mini keg set up recommendations? I see there are tornado kegs are little cool guys. so much to learn. I just need something to fit in my fridge. @@CiderWithKevin
@@AM2PMReviews fermenting under pressure is really cool, but still very niche. I suppose I feel obligated to say the safety things lol. As for recommentations, I am currently using this one: www.amazon.com/TMCRAFT-Gallon-Stainless-Disconnect-Home-brewing/dp/B09B9SZ1BZ/ref=sr_1_11_sspa?crid=XLG30N14ZAO0&keywords=Mini+keg&qid=1706043592&sprefix=mini+keg%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-11-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGY&psc=1 I can't say if it fits in your fridge, but it's pretty compact!
I just started my yearly cranberry cider a couple of weeks ago! I'm mixing it up this year by adding some of my garden black currants to the cider. When that's done we'll have a video of that :).
FWIW, I love making my own Apfelwein as well. I first fell in love with it when I spent some time working in Frankfurt. What I find odd is that American Apfelwein recipes all seem to jack up the alcohol content. Traditional German Apfelwein is about 4-5% alcohol. It’s a refreshing summer drink and often further diluted with seltzer or even Sprite (which Frankfurters refer to as “sour” or “sweet” mixtures vs. “pure” Apfelwein). I tried EdWort’s Apfelwein recipe, which calls for 2 lbs. of dextrose per 5 gallons of juice, and I found the extra alcohol was very noticeable in the taste. Your recipe is way higher than even that. If you like that style, no worries (it doesn’t have to be “authentic” and you should do what you enjoy), but you may want to try a much lower alcohol recipe just to see if you like it.
I think this might go back to what is defined as an applewine in the US. According to the BJCP: C2C. Applewine The term for this category is traditional but possibly misleading: it is simply a cider with substantial added sugar to achieve higher alcohol than a standard cider. As such it comes closer to a white wine than any other style. No fruit other than apples may be used in this style. You totally could dillute it with a mixer, I've heard squirt, sprite, or even just club soda is common. My personal preference is lower ABV stuff, so I might give that a go. 2lb of dextrose / 5gallons would raise the gravity by .46 * 2/ 5 gallons = .0184. This would increase the ABV by 2.4% - hypothetically. I think that would put it into the wine category, but kinda on the border.
@@CiderWithKevin I just came back from a trip to Germany and picked up a bottle of Possman's (the classic brand for Apfelwein). I was wrong: it is 6% alcohol. Cheers!
So pectic enzyme clearing times are dependent on a lot of things: the concentration of the enzyme, temperature, and alcohol content. It's difficult to pinpoint how long much PE it will take to clear. I tend to go towards the higher side myself.
I've been using Red Star Pasteur Blanc champagne yeast and results have been good, but too much added sugar puts too much alcohol forward and the taste isn't as nice as when you back off a bit on the sugar. Tend to prefer the result at around 1/2 pound (1 cup) per gallon of 5% alcohol potential raw juice. Trying Lalvin EC-1118 next.
Thanks for the kind words! I recently changed my format, so that might be it too. Also cidermaking is a niche topic in the niche topic of homebrewing, so contributes:).
Great video, thanks for sharing! In some previous videos, you noted a foot like taste from Belle Saison. I was surprised to see you used it here again - was that characteristic not present? Maybe it was hid behind the spice profile?
So I did a bunch of Belle Saison brews at once. I can say that this time, the spice and Backsweetening overrode whatever footy note that Belle Saison has. This may be controversial, but it's going to be difficult to notice yeast nuances when you heavily Backsweeten. That's probably why the notes did not come through!
@@aaronweyl2272 toffee without oil would be pretty difficult.... but.... if you use something like a recipe for browned butter Rum, you could hypothetically do a toffee buttered rum to use as an infusion
Great video love seeing cider yeast comparisons was about to start another batch and just came upon your video. I like Cote de Blancs and EC-1118, even though everyone says it's bad for cider. I was never that impressed with Safale S-04 or Nottingham Ale, maybe my fermentation was slightly off, or I just prefer the super dry finish. They seem "cleaner" to me.
The funny thing is that I've never used EC-1118 for that exact reason. Everyone says to just avoid it for cider. My impressions of S-04 could be different from others. I find it to be remarkably clean, but also kinda character-less. You need a mix of good, flavorful apples to back it up. It's worked like a champ in fruited Ciders because it doesn't add any character, which can distract from the impression of the fruit and apple blend.
@@CiderWithKevin Yes I didn't think S-04 was bad, or Nottingham, a few other ale type yeasts. I just find myself preferring the white wine and champagne yeasts. I do make a lot of fruited ciders so that might have something to do with it. I have a good amount of fruit trees, peach, plum, apricot, etc. so I save fruit in my freezer and add those to most of my ciders. Thanks for making the yeast comparison video there's not a lot of them when it comes to cider.
@@CiderWithKevin I also might be leaving my ciders on the lees in primary too long which is maybe why I prefer the champagne white wine yeasts. How long did you have your ciders in primary and secondary or bottle conditioned for? You may have mentioned it in video and maybe I missed it.
Astute palette... Would've expected the Pink Lady to come through more in the bouquet as known to be aromatic variety? Curious why you didn't use pectic enzyme at outset. I understand it can also remove compounds that will affect flavour in the ferment
I actually would recommend always using Pectic Enzyme with any fresh juice ferment. That was definitely an oversight on my part. Regarding the bouquet, I think the yeast character took over the nuances of the pink lady aroma. I'm going to try this with Safale S-O4 and 1.5 gallons of pink lady juice next time. I was left craving that pink lady character. S-04 is pretty restrained in aroma, which may allow the pink lady character to come through more.
Interesting results! I'm a big fan of cote de blanc for ciders but recently been using ale yeasts a lot because to me they tend to leave some sweetness without drying out completely. Although I saw the FGs were all about the same so maybe its all in my head. Would love to see more of this with other yeasts, maybe some kveik or lager varieties!
Cote de Blancs is just a good yeast. It's affordable and performs really well! In my experience cider almost always goes completely dry (<= 1.000), but some yeasts do a better job of retaining some of the perceived sweetness than other yeasts. That maybe what it was! Ironically, I have a couple of Kveik and lager strains in my fridge ready to test out. Maybe a part 2!
Great video. I've always passed over blueberry ciders thinking they were gimmicky but I'll have to try one now on this recommendation. Question: how did you store the cider for a year? In your earlier video you had kegged the cider. A year is a lot of time to use valuable kegerator space...
Good question. I force carb then bottle using The Last Straw from Northern Brewer about 1 gallon of each batch. Then, I pasteurize the bottles and store them in my cellar. Keg space is definitely at a premium.
