I play Pokemon HC Nuzlockes and talk about stupid Nintendo Games. I do a bit of Spelunky 2 speedrunning. I play a ton of Binding of Isaac. So go follow me on Twitch. www.twitch.tv/latermanner - I stream all weekdays And TikTok. www.tiktok.com/@latermanner
Book of the dead's charge nerf hurt me on an emotional level because I loved using it afterbirth plus but now I never pick up When you brought up being locked out of angel rooms as a downside for satanic bible, I really don't see it as a downside because if you're taking it then you don't care for angel rooms in that run specifically what I will say is that a real downside getting a garbage devil deal item cuz there's alot and in my opinion book of virtues is one of the best active items in the game overall just from making your active items more useful, even though all gives you is a wisp, it's still extra damage it's even better when you have a low charge item (my personal fav is Lemon Mishap)
Imo, Maggy's birthright should go bottom of Insane because the extra health doesn't do that much for Maggy because she can already do sac rooms fine and you wouldn't necessarily need that HP for the run. It's nice and convenient to have 6 extra hearts, but it doesn't end up legitimately helping her do what she can already do normally. Only thing that you could use the hearts for are devil deals and black markets
I absolutely adore your exceedingly long tier lists of Isaac. If this was by yourself it would still be really funny and insightful, but all of the banter and discussion makes this so much more fun to listen to. I completely agree book of sin should def be higher :)) I think your next tier list or ranking should be about the characters! Maybe about how strong they are, or more interestingly, you and turtle each rank the characters 1-34 based on enjoyment and reveal where each character is and why. Could be really fun!
Glad you like the videos! Enjoyment lists aren't really our thing because it's a bit too subjective. Of course all lists will contain subjectivity but the strength lists such as this one have more of an objective basis for us to aim for. So character list would definitely be a strength list, but I don't see it happening for a while just because... frankly I'm not ready for it LOL. Like I want to get in more practice with all the characters since it's been a while since I played all of them. It's easier for me to rank items even without using them recently because they can possibly appear on every run and therefore the experiences with the items happen more consistently (still not perfect, for example I haven't ever utilised the invincibility frames to dodge enemies with how to jump, which might have boosted it's placement a lot). But for characters I usually play them in chunks so if that chunk was a while ago then it's harder to call back to it.
@@turtierthat is completely valid! Thank you for letting me know your guys thought process when it comes to what to rank. Hopefully the character tier list sometime before late 2028🤞🙄🤞keep up the great work yall! Maybe a transformation tier list next then!
@@user-cm9ez7wu3bru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wKIk2QBb1L0.htmlsi=gUqZ4rHEnyll8TX6 I made this one on my own, i still agree with most of the placements and am proud enough of it, we will do a char list within a year im sure
I think the comments might be convincing me that cookbook is better than necronomicon... BUT I honestly am getting the impression that necro is underrated. Although keep in mind I say it's underrated in a similar way to how I said jupiter was underrated. Definitely one of the worst items in the pool, still bad, but both jupiter and necro really aren't as bad as people think.
imo, lemegeton is still better because it also offers protection, and unlike book of virtues, the wisps aren't limited to the ring layer. The only downside is it could spawn explosives like ipecac, dr fetus, epic fetus, fire mind, fruitcake, 3 dollar bill, or playdough cookie.
Maybe I'm crazy on this take but Anarchist Cookbook stomps Necronomicon! Tinted rocks are free and 99% of the time you really shouldn't get hit by the bombs it spawns.
Cookbook is good. An item that shows up often that’s underlined and picked up frequently in runs is bobs curse…. This book with that does good damage to later bosses. Slap 4.5 volt and this is an ACTUAL boss killing item. Used to hate it and now love it, especially for the versatility
Early game i will always take Anarchist cookbook id i dont already have a good active. It is good at killing rooms and bosses. It also can get you secert rooms if you know what your doing. I would put it at the bottom of good.
I read room clear items as having 1 less charge than their listed amount since you get a charge upon clearing a room. Still means necro sucks, but shadows effectively has 2 room recharge which is pretty nuts And honestly anarchist cookbook practically is a worse the tnt item. Like with cleared rooms you can nudge the bombs by exiting and entering befour the fuse goes off so adjusting it is easy but you could just use that tnt. At the very least it’s more available than tnt since its miniboss treasure and library
This is the single best Isaac video I have seen so far. This channel is a hidden gem among others, as listening to nerdy debates about different items is a pleasant thing I suggest you to make a few more tier lists, like the shop item tier list, or an OST tier list, TBoI songs are ridiculously good. Floors and bosses could be ranked too, it would be as fun nonetheless. I hope this channel gets more attention because this is just peak entertainment Book of Secrets >>>> Lemegeton btw.
My opinion on each book Book of Secrets, if it's used enough in a floor (4 times max) grants X-Ray which opens up both Secret and Super Secret rooms. If you have Compass, Treasure Map, or Blue Map, take 1 off the required uses to get X-Ray. If you use it in a room with a tinted rock or a crawlspace, the rock will light up too. Anarchists Cookbook needs synergy to be good, I wouldn't call it trash but it is bad. I'd take it second or third last out of every book. I've used this to kill a lot of bosses over the years though. I think Turt just has shit luck with this book lmao How to Jump is really good for first floors when you don't have enough bombs or no flying to get items behind rocks or across gaps. You're also invuln while jumping afaik? Book of Rev: Good after a boss fight, annoying before a Boss fight. I don't like Harbinger loot most of the time. Book of Shadows is top 3 to me, I'd probably take it over any other book just because it's that guaranteed safety. Book of the Dead is meh to me. It's okay. Not bad but not good. Monster Manual is also meh. I'd take it if I had Schoolbag though and over Dead. It's a great secondary book but not as a primary. Satanic Bible I'd take over Book of Rev honestly. Unless I'm running a non red heart character. Big ups for Lost though for all those extra devil deal items if you're going that way honestly. This is certainly one to think over. Necronomicon = Trash. A Death card on a four room cooldown? Traaaaaash. Telepathy for Dummies Is only not bad because it's on a 2 room. I'd take it over Cookbook and Necro though The Bible I'll take if the library is there for the Mom's fight and then get rid of it. Book of Belial is great, even better with 4.5 volt. It's good normally, insane with that. One of the top books too Book of Sin is good especially early game but it falls off even mid game. Book of Virtues is an instant take. There are absolutely no downsides to this book and it can't be rerolled out of even on a T. Eden run. Lemegeton is anywhere from Bad to Insane, it all depends on what wisps you get. Getting a bad wisp can mess you up. The synergy with Book of Virtues does make it better though since the wisps get to shoot as well.
Interesting proposal that Lemegeton is the best active. Best bets against it would be spindown dice and mega mush. The control you get over your build with spindown is crazy, and mega mush just trivialises huge parts of the run. But lemeg might actually be better.
Sorry to say, but How to jump is somewhat cracked. When you jump, you’re temporarily invincible, and it’s just so abusable. It’s underrated in part because there are indeed better actives, but also because people don’t take advantage of its potential. It’s actually a very good defensive item. Honestly, I’d rank it top of mid. I’d pick it any day over those items in general. But fair, I would pick the dps items over it.
@@turtier thing is, if I understand it right you don’t get s per se. You’re invulnerable while mid air, but you don’t get s when you land. You can spam it though and be almost but not entirely unhittable. It’s not like stitches or ventricle razor though, where you can really fuck with them if you know what you’re doing.
Yeah honestly, when I placed it top of mid, I was kinda being consciously modest. I actually think it can be completely broken. It’s sorta like the reasoning for putting sworn protector in insane tier in the angel room list: it’s clearly not supposed to be doing so much, but you can just cheese it really easily. If you’re patient and just somewhat attentive I honestly think it might make you almost invincible.
You guys should try picking 5-10 random items each and rank them on a tier list. I think most of the results of these lists depend on the pools so it would be interesting to see how you rank items in a vacuum
Anarchist Cookbook one shots early game bosses and tanks alot of late game non story bosses it can one hit lil haunt ragman pin monstro ect. its if ur struggling with rooms with spike puzzles that you dont have time to deal with you can use it to blow open doors which could be the deciding factor between getting boss rush and being a few seconds off. Have an arcade and low on bombs? BOOM Anarchist Cookbook. Tricky boss that you want to kill in one hit or weaken? BOOOM Anarchist Cookbook. Low on health against a boss with pyromaniac or Hosthat? BOOOOM Anarchist Cookbook
@@ryza7760 I was referring to the items that unlock planetarium items like Gemidni, Peakcer and Pisces, but yeah that video was great except for the classic idea of Jupiter being ass
@@whatisthispic6877 I agree that mars is worse, although jupiter is definitely the 2nd worst item in that pool at least. I do think it's overhated for sure though, a lot of people skip it and it's really not that bad.
For anyone who hasn't watched the video yet, guess which book we spent the longest time talking about (technically its a placement between 2 books). We thought "This list should be shorter than planetarium since the items are simpler to talk about" how wrong we were LOL.
"When do you ever walk out of a library with book of secrets" so true, I think the only thing I'd choose it over is book of anarchy cos who tf ever takes curse of the tower unless they have pyro
I mean, I think most Isaac players almost always take Curse of the Tower just for fun, but it indeed usually isn't very good. Unless you got any bomb effects of course
@@jamajama7366 yeah it's fun to play around sometimes, its not really hard to dodge the bombs unless youre in a tight space but its mostly inconvenient to me, the only time I take curse of the tower is by accident, and the only time i use the tower card is when im trying to get a secret room or rock for the most part haha
I'd say spun should get a mention too, it's not tooooo hard to get and I'm not complaining with damage and speed up. Probs in mid somewhere, maybe bottom mid. The rest of the transformations are too rare and aren't even that good (the poop one theoretically has a crazy good effect but it's so rare to get it on a run that actually needs it).
Reverse magician not having an offensive factor is so wrong. In most bullet hell bosses you sometimes have to not attack in order to dodge the patterns. This effect let you just standing in front of the boss and not miss a single shot for one minute straight
I'd actually swap crown of light's spot with wafer and keep Star where it is. Crown of Light *is* insane...but if you're running a red health character and you take any damage it's now completely useless until you're full up. It's the most useless item ever on Tainted Maggie.
Coming in late to this, the argument for Reverse Judgment is lowkey hilarious, especially after talking a little about Blank Card. Tarot Cloth synergy though? 4-14 chests. Add in Mom's Key? It's the single best card in the game at that point. EDIT: When used in the first room of the Chest, the items are part of the Treasure Room pool not the Golden Chest pool which still includes Magic Mushroom. Not sure how it works in Dark Room since those are Devil Room pool not Red Chest pool.
samson's bloody lust in wrath of the lamb only worked within the room, not the whole floor which got changed in rebirth, it made him a terrible character to play on wotl
Honestly, I think mercurius is like the best item in the whole pool, maybe on par with terra. But the ability to just skip rooms you don't feel like doing is crazy. Especially when you consider that most health is lost in normal rooms rather than bosses, which helps you converve a ton of health.
It's extremely impractical if you need to go back to that room for any reason though. So if you want to full clear the floor, it's useless, and if your trying to skip rooms but you picked the wrong direction then it's not as useful as it seems. You also need to clear the rooms adjacent to all special rooms otherwise they don't open. On top of all that, you still can take damage even if you don't clear the room, because some enemy layouts block the way to the door. I feel like this is why a lot of the time I opt to just clear most of the rooms anyway.
omfg. how the FUCK do yall have only 700 subs? thats ridiculous! both of yall have easily become one of my favorite youtubers and i have been binge watching all of yalls tier list videos and they are so beyond entertaining and I am so seriously in love. you deserve WAY more attention for this outstanding quality content that you two goobers pump out for fellow nerds like me to enjoy! the charisma between you two is bonkers and what both of you each separately bring to the table makes these videos PERFECT. keep doing what yall do bc holy shit are you good at it!
Thank you! It's always nice to see that people think we make a good duo, especially since we weren't actually friends before we started making the lists (the secret room list was the first time we talked in vc lol). I was interested in list content like this for a while and things kind of just worked out! Honestly at this point I am a little surprised that we still only have 700 subs, I thought it would be at least 1000 by now, but we've got consistent viewers and comments and that's more than I expected to get when we started, so that's pretty cool. We've had a bit of trouble getting time to record recently but we managed to record 2 lists yesterday so those should be coming out in the following weeks.
@@turtier Omg thank you so much for sharing! Yeah ya’ll make an amazing duo and im addicted to these videos lol. I would bet my life savings that ya’ll will start to get more attention, subs, and views on these videos bc nerds like us seriously find this stuff so entertaining lmao. Both of you take all the time you need to get these videos out man, if ya’ll dont got the time then ya’ll dont got the time, we can wait :3 stay safe and stay happy ;3
