I'm a pulmonary and critical care physician, pilot, computer nerd, and photographer. I'll post whatever I find interesting to me and hopefully interesting to others. Comments welcome.
Excellent edge case! Watch the video in slow motion. @3:19 the speedo says 17mph, @3:21 it has already decelerated to 12mph before the diengagement chime rings. FSD was clearly slowing down before you took over, indicating it saw the gate. I would like to see another attempt
@@ryanslaten oh and I tested on another entrance with barricade only and there was a speed bump before it saw and slowed for and after crossing the barricade opened so no contact. For the barricade in the video with the gate behind, it takes longer for the barricade to open because it doesn’t start to open until the gate is fully opened, and that is slow. If the other entrance was just a barricade, the barricade opens immediately upon the sticker being scanned and the speed bump gets you slowed first so maybe is easier to see or maybe the barricade gets out of the way so fast it doesn’t matter
@@celeron55 there are many gated neighborhoods to control access to amenities and to know who is in and out and when they come and go. There are usually paid security people to scan ID’s of visitors and residents have car stickers or sometimes codes to enter.
To be honest, I like to see the failures. So to me its not clickbait. Im very bullish on FSD, but only seeing the good stuff can blind your judgment. What do you think Tesla is more interested in? It ain't the perfect stuff.
@@cheetahrunout I think they are definitely making a lot of progress and the jump to version 12 was a big step but at the same time I don’t think they should push out software that still has no issues if they affect safety at least. I feel like they need to be putting more resources into thisbecause with more coders these issues probably would’ve already been fixed. As it is, they have to hop around from issue to issue dividing their time between new features and fixing bugs.
@DrD57 issue is that its all neutral nets. Therefore isssues like this need training data instead of more coders. Edit: make sure to accept that your data is shared so Tesla can improve on issues like this. (Perhaps thats mandatory for 12.5, I dont know)
I like your drives with FSD. It gives me a better understanding of improvement from the previous version. I try to keep track of different scenarios, most interesting things are not been tested by early testers yet. My opinion of FSD 12.5 shows readiness, on a scale from 1 to 10: 1 - Not working, 3 - Working, not useful, 5 - Good, 9 - Like human, 10 - Better than human. 7 - Highway: Performs well, but not perfect(FSD11). 5 - Exit from Highway: Adequate, but requires more refinement, miss exist or change lane too late(FSD11). 7 - Change Lane: Generally effective, but occasional issues. 8 - Intersection: Handles most scenarios smoothly. 8 - Roundabouts: Navigate effectively, though not flawlessly. 4 - Parking Lots: Functional but can struggle with complexity. 3 - Parking on the Street: Needs better spot finding to avoid blocking traffic. 6 - Reverse Parking: Decent, but not consistently reliable. 2 - Gate: Needs significant improvement for reliability. 7 - Signal to Other Cars: Generally good, but improvements are needed. 7 - Left Turn: Handles most left turns well. 4 - Unprotected Turns: Often cautious or hesitant. 5 - Speed Bumps: Recognizes and slows down appropriately. 3 - Constructions on Road: Needs better detection and navigation. 4 - Road Blocks: Struggles to handle unexpected obstacles. 5 - Rain: Performs adequately, but not in heavy rain. 3 - Snow: Limited capability in snowy conditions. 5 - Fog: Manages light fog, and struggles with heavy fog. 4 - Other Cars Breaking Rules: Handles some scenarios, but not all. 7 - Pedestrians: Good at detecting and reacting. 5 - Other Road Vehicles: Adequate, but can be improved. 6 - Traffic Lights: Generally accurate, occasional misreads. 7 - Driving Smoothness: Mostly smooth, with minor jerkiness at times. 6 - Speed Limits: Adheres well, but sometimes slow to adjust. 3 - Emergency Vehicles: Not recognized can be improved. 5 - Supervision: Nice that no hands on the wheel are required. 1 - Front Parking: Major improvements are needed. 1 - Reverse in Street: Significant challenges remain. 1 - Actual Smart Summon(ASS): 1 - Self-park(Banish): My assessment is, of course, open for discussion, but this is my opinion based on the videos that have been published so far. If there haven't been any new updates, I base this on earlier versions. I assume my opinion may change in the future, but right now, I don't see any area where FSD is as good as or better than a human driver, even though it can sometimes surpass humans in certain scenarios. However, it would be great to see videos where different scenarios are tested and split into sections. Instead of test routes or long drives.
Tesla does lots of training in simulation, and their simulation might not have many randomly placed barricades and gates yet. I'd imagine they have railroad crossings and parking garages but not much else, and those are quite different environments with different signage compared to this one.
@@blessguy5330 the car is 3 months old and it was 6 in the morning with lots of dew on the window - later in the video it clears up with use of the defroster
@@khanisbrown6424 version 12.5 and every other version says to keep your hand on the wheel at all times - I don’t do that, but I keep my hand very close if a failure would be difficult to correct in time otherwise. For example, if the car is taking an exit wrap at 70 miles an hour, which it often does since it ignores speed limit signs that are anything but black-and-white I think it’s a good idea to have your hand on or near the wheel since of two or 3 foot deviation at that speed could run you off a cliff.
@@DrD57 Never experienced what bro Is talking about, I've experienced It going to slow on the exits. Never 2 fast and on freeways you have far more time to correct.
@@librab103 The front-facing cameras on Tesla's Hardware 4 (HW4) system feature significant upgrades from previous versions. These new cameras are equipped with Sony's IMX490 sensors, which offer a resolution of 2896x1876, or about 5.4 megapixels. This is a notable improvement over the earlier 1.2-megapixel cameras used in Hardware 3. The higher resolution allows for better image clarity and more precise object detection, enhancing the vehicle's overall situational awareness and autonomous driving capabilities [oai_citation:1,Tesla Hardware 4 camera ports hint at 360-degree view with no blind spots](www.teslarati.com/tesla-hardware-4-vs-hardware-3-camera-analysis/) [oai_citation:2,Tesla Hardware 4 - Full Details and Latest News - AutoPilot Review](www.autopilotreview.com/tesla-hardware-4-rolling-out-to-new-vehicles/) [oai_citation:3,New Camera with FSD HW 4.0 | Tesla Cybertruck Forum - News, Discussions, Community - Cybertruckownersclub.com](www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/new-camera-with-fsd-hw-4-0.4614/).
@@librab103 Tesla's Hardware 4 (HW4) has been integrated into several of its models. The Model S and Model X started receiving HW4 in March 2023. This update included new, higher-resolution cameras and an enhanced self-driving computer. The Model Y began shipping with HW4 in May 2023, initially from Tesla's Fremont factory, and later from Giga Shanghai for the Chinese market [oai_citation:1,Tesla delivers Model Y with Hardware 4.0 despite not announcing new features | Electrek](electrek.co/2023/05/26/tesla-model-y-hardware-4-features/) [oai_citation:2,Tesla Quietly Introduces Hardware 4 Suite On New Model Y Cars - CleanTechnica](cleantechnica.com/2023/05/30/tesla-quietly-introduces-hardware-4-suite-on-new-model-y-cars/) [oai_citation:3,Tesla adds HW4 and Quicksilver to Model Y from Giga Shanghai - Drive Tesla](driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-adds-hw4-and-quicksilver-to-model-y-from-giga-shanghai/). As of now, almost all new Model S, Model X, and Model Y vehicles come equipped with HW4. The Model 3 is expected to receive HW4 with the introduction of its new "Highland" version, anticipated in the near future [oai_citation:4,Tesla begins deliveries of vehicles with Hardware 4 computer](www.teslarati.com/tesla-hardware-4-hw4-deliveries-model-x/) [oai_citation:5,Tesla Delivers First Hardware 4.0 Vehicles; Some Software Issues [Updated Again]](www.notateslaapp.com/news/1246/tesla-delivers-first-hardware-4-0-vehicles-but-without-autopilot-and-tacc).
barricades are an interesting failure point, with them being so small on camera. first time watching I didn't see the barricade on the video before you braked, but going back through the video the barricade is visible for at least 3 seconds before, so should be plenty of time to be spotted. Do you have any other barricades like this one in your area you can test? see if the failure is consistent?
Awesome. I've never been to Silver Springs but I remember my mother talking about visiting there once. Probably in the 60s. Makes me feel nostalgic. I live in NE GA. Hopefully I'll go there next time I come down to Florida. I hear the springs aren't what they use to be. the water isn't as clear and not as much water. Is this true? They were saying due to development that has occured over the years. Fertilizers washing in and causing algae blooms and ranches taking water from the springs. Not sure how true it is. This video looks aweome to me though.
That type of barricade has been a known problem for a while now. From what I've read, the FSD display uses the v11 NN stack, which has a series of NN that find the road, identify objects, street signs, etc.. I've been told (though I don't know for a fact) that FSD 12.x abandons that and takes the image as a whole and feeds that into a single NN, this means weird objects like this, people waving and all kinds of hard to classify things should get recognized and handled properly. I''m curious if anyone else has any insight.
@@joneclegg barricades are not all the same. They can vary in thickness, color, presence or absence of lights or reflectors, etc.. it is not always that important that you know they are a barrier per se, but it is important to know. They are a solid object that you might hit if you don’t stop. Focusing software to identify solid objects in your path would make things safer whether you realize it’s an actual barricade or not.
@@DrD57 I'm sure we can all put our FSD vehicles in situations it is not trained for. I've yet to hear of FSD stopping for all slat type gates. Have you read that in any of the releases? That is somewhat of a special circumstance IMO. When a release says it is now able to identify and react to slat gates, then to me at least, that would be a failure.
My 12.5 wanted to go straight in a left only lane. Why are those things not happening to Omar. There is probably very little training data with those types of gates, still I was hoping those new HD cams would pick that up better.
The image for the NN is currently not even SD, we far away from real time HD processing. Even on HW4 cars they currently emulating the camera feed to a lower resolution matching the HW3 resolution. And that image then gets further reduced to something like 360x360. But this issues are not a problem in the long term. If its not fixable with improved architecture of the NN stack we could still just improve hardware processing power to make it work.
I'm not trying to be bossy, but as we progress further along the FSD journey, it becomes increasingly important to report those edge cases. Thanks for uploading! Its fun to watch the progress.
when you say collision I think you should mention that FSD failed to recognize a gate. the latter is far less of a problem than a collision with another car or a pedestrian. tesla probably knows about this issue and has not attributed a lot of resources to fixing it yet because it's not as high a priority as making sure it doesn't hit humans or cars.
@@mkkkai one would hope - they really do need to have more people working on the obvious gaps in performance of FSD. Probably no one dies if I crash through the gate but between repairs to the car and the gate could be into the $1000 range or more and missing something right in front of two cameras does not instill confidence. I knew prior versions had this issue so my foot was on the brake pedal but what other blind spots are there that we may not anticipate. When you have serious fan boys or even Elon touting a version that never made it to general release was 10x better without showing data it doesn’t make them more trustworthy or help Tesla at all. All known issues should be fixed with adequate coding resources before another release comes out. Given how much people are paying and have paid over the years it’s not a great idea to skimp on software development like this.
Pretty unique setup there. Not usual to have both a barricade and a gate just after. Don't see that anywhere I have lived (over 11 states) or worked (39 states). Not surprised it doesn't know how to handle that yet, very rare situation to train for.
@@tonyvelasco5732 the gate and the barricade are linked together. We have barcodes on the car window when you drive up the gate opens first and once fully open the barricade rises. When you leave there is no authentication required and you just have to wait for the gate to slowly open in 12.3.6 usually would see the gate but not always on time so it’s not exactly trustworthy. No version has ever detected the barricade, and even in this case, given the speed the car was driving, had the barricade not been there. It probably would’ve hit the gate too.
Looks like the cameras cant detect the barricades and thats a major issue. I believe its the "vision only" navigation thats affecting the FSD from getting where it need to be. I've seen issues (mostly disengagements) with driving in heavy rain and fog and unmarked roads as well. May be a radar would have helped to fix it. But then, certain people are very adamant, aren't they ? 😉
@@Cmiscel the cameras have plenty of resolution to see them but the software just isn’t looking for them. It would be helpful if map data included this information like it does for stop signs but the Tesla vision software still needs to see them, recognize them, and react. Another branch of this problem, our cases where the driver has to punch a code or talk to someone to get the gate open, whether via intercom or in person. But absolutely the car does not need to just drive into these things.
thank you for your videos! Very informative! As I see fsd is progressing very fast despite the barrier issue. Do you expect Tesla to solve autonomy this or next year?
@@Maksim-he4ej I believe they can do it if they put enough resources into it. I feel like they are understaffed, though leaving widely known issues unaddressed.
Ya... Stuff like that is going to force Elon to eventually admit the self driving taxi will be limited to certain areas. I think we're a few years away from vision-only systems being able to handle things like that barricade. I also have seen it fail to detect when some objects move while the car is stationary/parked. Im guessing that would also mean the vision system wont detect new objects that get close to the car while its parked.
I think all these issues are very solvable, but I don’t think they have enough people working on it so they hop around from one thing to another and they feel a lot of pressure to push out new releases, including from me because we are all eager to see the new stuff. In general, it’s better to respond things that are not there than to miss things that are.
@@isonlynameleft I waited as long as I could to see if it would notice and felt like it’s slightly slowed down right before I hit the brakes but yes, it was going to hit it in spite of that and I’m not so sure it would not hit the gate next because they are pretty darn closeand we were moving pretty fast
I'm getting really bad navigational problems with this one, like turning into a residential area 500 feet from the correct turn, or getting into the straight only lane and trying to make a left on a red light from the straight lane, also was suppose to go straight and turned into a parking lot for no reason and started driving around until it eventually pulled toward a parking spot and got stuck.
@@Kev376 interesting. Well, I’m not tested it in 12.5, previous versions have had trouble where lanes are separated by poles that limit lane changes near an intersection. There are a few of these close to where I live and if you are not in the correct left turn lane before these poles start you really cannot turn at that intersection and have to go beyond and then U-turn and come back or in some cases, the Lane you’re in becomes a left turn lane and the polls trap you there such as potentially was going to happen this morning. You can’t really anticipate these until you see them and because they are aligned with your route, they are not visually prominent in a distance. The only real solution is to get into the correct turning lane as early as possible rather than waiting till the last moment.
@@dluchin1998 parking has been fine the last few versions. Elon said 12.4 was 10x better than 12.3.6 get 12.4 and 12.4.1 and 12.3.2 were never released. The barricade issue is a big deal as it hitting anything right in front of you and they have to be aware of this. I would not release another version until this is taken care of.
@@DrD57 I guess it's your title I take issue with. It sounds like your saying this version is a failure, when really you just had a single disengagement at a place you already knew was an issue.
@@dluchin1998 it was A failure (the behavior). I assume there will be others. If enough people report these issues they will hopefully get more attention. I still don’t understand why speed limit signs that don’t feature black text on a white background or still ignored either is that is certainly a safety issue as well but colliding with something right in front of the car to me would be number one priority. If it can’t see a barricade right in front of you then what else might it miss?
Obviously it was for a clickbait... For me this drive would have been A minus on my score card as I am macro versus micro.... But again I also agree it's technically a failure if you are talking full on robotaxi capability...
@@jh-qb3yb any time a human must take action to prevent an accident. It is a failure for FSD. Many times there are odd behaviors by FSD that are not really a safety issues, such as slowing down unexpectedly, a few miles an hour, and then picking back up speed or unusual lane changes. But anything a human is required to do to prevent an accident is a failure. When fanboy were openly promoting this version and versions past as being nearly perfect this becomes a bigger safety issue as it can encourage unjustified trust and reduced vigilance from drivers. As users who paid a lot for FSD it is not our job to be cheerleaders when we do an evaluation of an update we should show the good and the bad as we see it.
Yup green dot means you could have driven hands free. I guess your hands were on the wheel during this drive? I'm actually surprised that it worked when it was dark as it is not supposed to work with sunglasses or during nights (yet).
@@John101B I found one very brief nag on the day drive, but only by reviewing the video as I totally missed it live and must’ve accidentally responded to it. For the most part, my hand was not on the wheel, but it was very close during critical moments and sometimes lightly touching the wheel just to help know what it was doing.
@@DrD57 Yup. Unfortunately, my car is HW3, so I won't get it anytime soon, but I do plan to keep my hand on the wheel even with hands-free feature. I just like to feel the car with my hand in addition to my eyes and other sensors. It will still save much deliberate effort since the nag will be gone.
Appreciate your testing! Yeah, I hear that those horizontal swinging barricades are an issue for FSD; apparently the camera is unable to separate it from the surrounding environment. Don’t know how it will be resolved, but hopefully Tesla will find a solution. I just received 12.5 this morning on my 2024 Model 3. Need to do more testing, but my initial impression is positive. I especially like the stop sign improvement. It’s much more natural and is quicker, even with the need to stop completely (required by NHTSA). Also, I have not yet noticed any lane dancing, but again need more testing. I have noticed maybe a fraction of a second delay when my vehicle is first at a traffic light and it turns from red to green. Not really an issue at all, just an observation when comparing 12.3.6 to 12.5. One other thing, FSD still does not honor No Turn On Red intersections; no doubt something that will be addressed when it is able to read more signs and respond accordingly. I still think that there’s a long way to go before complete autonomy, but 12.5 appears to be a nice step forward.
@@fedderd given I’ve only had two drives so far I agree that the assertiveness in a good way is a good thing. Except for running into the barricade, it does feel more natural. Of course, we will all know more with more time behind the wheel, but definitely ignore the ridiculous hyperbole from Twitter about how great it is and that it is a solved problem.
Thank you for your testing… Recheck the release notes. The changes you mentioned at the beginning of your video are “Upcoming Improvements” in future 12.5.x releases. They have not yet been implemented in this release.
@@fedderd I wondered a bit about that language because that is the only comment at all about 12.5 and would’ve assumed they would’ve mentioned some improvement. But maybe not.
Good test. The driving in this and the previous video look good and possibly better than previous versions. Still has problems with gates, but I wasn’t expecting that to be fixed just yet. Thanks for the tests. Which Hardware are you on?
@@anunexpectedfire4062 I took delivery March 19 and it’s a 2024 model Y picked up in Central Florida so I assume is version 4 but have not looked in the pages to find it
@@markmoser7914 I was able to see it for years in the surface of the old bridge pavement was covered by broken pieces of pavement, etc. one source said that things were falling off the bridge into the water, and that that was making them question the structural integrity of the end, but who knows?
Nice to see this again. I haven't been down there in 35 years. The family use to camp there every other year. Back then, the bridge was still in one piece and we would cross the channel by walking the railroad portion of the bridge all the way across.....and back. There was a steel cable from one end to the other that you could hold onto while making the crossing. One thing that was cool about that cable is that you could tap it, and then listen to the vibration travel back and forth. Pretty neat.
Just to be clear I am not a fan of either Donald Trump or Joe Biden. I'm a conservative and neither of these guys are conservative or competent to be President but it is what it is.
Well, the Democrats have their golf-car parade at The Villages parade also, so it's a wash. Regarding Trump, I'm "with noticeable reservations" when it comes to him but for sure, Biden has to go. Where are the alternatives to those two? There aren't any. BTW, I had thought earlier that Obama was the worst "President" so far -- my mistake. ;-) -- BR
@@billredding2000 I'm hoping one or both don't make it to election day one way or another - both parties could do better. Doubt either one will be president for 4 years too.
South of Brownwood is an entertainment center called Sawgrass Grove (also a Market Place, McGrady's Pub, Rec Center, and sporting facilities). Beyond Sawgrass Grove is huge area being developed which includes a sports complex (Eastport) and a development (Middleton) for people who work in TV which includes a "downtown" shopping area.
