$700 vs $4000 Espresso Machine Comparison - How much should you spend on an espresso machine? 

You’ve been asking, so I did it! Understand that this isn’t a review but a light hearted comparison. Looking back I wish I used a glass cup to show you the texture! Be sure to watch to the end! Acting may be involved 😂

Hello Kyle, great topic. About five years ago I purchased a Breville Barista Express 870. I spent zero time learning how to actually use an espresso machine and was completely ignorant with respect to how a shot should taste, or why one should taste a certain way due to any particular technique. I simply extracted 2 fluid OZ into a shot glass, poured it into a 16oz cup, added 1 oz of chocolate sauce, 1 oz of caramel sauce, and topped off the very large cup with some poorly steamed milk (which took forever BTW). I found that if I added enough milk, chocolate and caramel, I felt relatively happy with my results. Eventually the pump failed, and I decided to upgrade (somewhat). After some research and contacting several companies, I purchased an ECM, Mechanica V Slim with an additional bottomless portafilter & upgraded the steam valves with ECM, Synchronika joysticks. I selected a Eureka Mignon Specialita Espresso Grinder (chrome finish). The company (I am not sure of I can mentioned the name of the company, so I will not until I am sure that's OK with you and your channel?) I made this purchase from suggested I accept a complementary "coffee school" online espresso training program. I opted for the advanced version, however I quickly discovered I was completely lost, so after contacting the company again, they also provided me a free "coffee school" course beginner version. Over the next few days I completed the very professional video course material, complete with testing and follow up question areas. Only then, did I have a fundamental understanding of what espresso is/was, the difference between good and bad shots, how to recognize problems, solutions and most importantly how to dial in a shot that "I liked". Ii became obvious, I needed (wanted actually) a full featured espresso scale, so I purchased the Acaia Lunar Scale and began weighing my coffee in and espresso out in grams rather than espresso out by volume. Based on the "Coffee School" beginner training program, I started with a 1-1.5 ratio recipe using and 18 gram bottomless portafilter. Eg, 18 grams coffee in, 27 grams out and I selected 27 seconds extraction time because it seemed to be within range 25-30 and it was an easy number for me to remember. Per the "Coffee School" beginner training program, I made sure everything except the grind fineness was constant, then dialed in my extraction time to 27 and weight in grams to 27 by adjusting grind fineness, which took me about an hour or roughly 15 shots. The shots were so ridiculously consistent, and excellent tasting that I replaced previously used (2 fluid ounces of flavoring) with one single drop of chocolate and oine single drop of caramel. I now prefer a 6 fluid oz, Ristretto / Capuchino beverage. I then completed the advanced "Espresso School" training program which opened up an entire world of recipes and techniques that I have now been experimenting with. So in hindsight, I would say in the order of importance, the things that improved "my espresso experience" were: #1) "Coffee School" training, in conjunction with the Lunar Scale. #2) The grinder Eureka Mignon Specialita Espresso Grinder #3) The ECM, Mechanica V Slim, in conjunction with the bottomless porta filter & basket. #4) The almost instantaneous chat or voice support from the company I purchased the equipment form, when I did have questions. (Again, I would like to name the company but I do not want to break any rules). Could I have made generally acceptable espresso shots with the Breville 870? Sure, if I had completed the "Coffee School" training, used a digital scale, and used a decent grinder and had plenty of time to wait for steam and concurrent shots. But being real, "For me", proper training, excellent entry level equipment and fresh coffee has been one of the most rewarding things I have done in a very very long time. Thank you for making it to the end of this comment. BTW, my total investment in new equipment is: $3,243.75 (about 4.5 times more than my old Brevelle) The upgrade was worth every penny from my perspective. Mark Nicholson Former, US Army - EFMB, Combat Medical Specialist 1/94 FA MLRS

I love my breville i love my breville I love my breville... I dont need a 4000 dollar machine I dont need a 4000 dollar machine .....

Fun comparison! I started with the Barista Express and loved it. Some people will be satisfied and keep it and enjoy it for many years, others will realize how much they love the experience of making coffee at home and it will become a hobby. Great video once again Kyle!

Currently own the Barista Express. I bought it back in college so for me I loved the all in one (no need for a separate grinder and fit perfectly in my small apartment) and I still get great tasting espresso. Also love that it has PID but I do agree temp consistency is not there when pulling back to back shots. (I usually wait several min before pulling another)

My husband got me the Breville for Valentine’s. I haven’t been to a starbucks or cafe since. My home espresso is better! I LOVE it. Love.

I understand that comparing the bbe grinder + bbe brew vs niche + lelit is far too unbalanced, but why not use the bbe grinder for both machines in the comparison? It would seem that the biggest deciding factor in the value of the BBE would be the grinder quality. If it's not possible to pull a great shot with the BBE grinder on the Binaca, then it would seem that the value of the grinder would be worthless, and money would be better spent on something like a Breville Bambino or Gaggia Classic and a separate grinder. Thoughts?

Just ordered my barista express. New to the world of home espresso, keep the content rolling! Looking forward to learning new things and growing my understanding .

So I ended up with my BBE because my uncle upgraded to the Bianca! Now I'm learning and pulling shots daily.

Great video mate. I've been using the BBE/infuser type set up for a good 10 or so years and within the next month I should be getting my Bianca. Can't wait to try it out! I'm especially keen to try the flow profiler.

For anyone considering the Breville: spend your money on a Rancillio Silvia and a decent grinder instead. You can get by with a basic Gaggia grinder, but spend the extra couple bucks and get a Sette 270. The Silvia is the same price as as Breville, but it is a proper espresso machine for the price. The Breville's grinder is trash and shouldn't be a consideration. Get a real grinder, the Sette 270 is best for the money.

This is a great approach to a purchase. Whenever I buy something I start with educating myself about the top shelf high end items and learning how to discern their differences over the mid priced item.

This is a great video. I think you did a nice job of communicating expectations people should have with each machine. One further direction you could discuss is why more pressure in the steam wand matters. If people haven’t steamed much milk that’s probably less obvious.

Awesome video and thank you for sharing your tips 👍👍

I love that you didn’t totally dog the Breville! Espresso is such a beautiful experience and you can have a beautiful experience with any of these machines if you’re willing to put in the work! I’m a coffee shop owner/coffee roaster. I have a two group Astoria Rapollo At the shop, A Lucca M58 and ECM grinder at the Roaster for espresso experiments, and then that exact Breville at my own house🤣! I don’t want some thing with a large footprint inside my own kitchen and when I make coffee at home I don’t want to pull three or four shots to reach perfection! Sometimes we just need a Americano to get us up and moving in the morning. Over many years in the industry I have been able to change my thought process of picking out what is wrong in each individual shop/machine/process, to simply appreciating the differences. It really helps me not lose my mind

Really enjoyed this video, must watch till the end,very funny!👍👍👍

If you are on the fence for Breville machine consider the dual boiler 900 series with a vario grinder, you will be surprised at the quality of the shots. I have had the Breville 900 since 2012 and it is still up an running. My coffee references are pitango coffee shop and habitu caffe. It also depend on your skills. Enjoy coffee!

Thanks for doing the comparison. It would be very interesting to see a double blind taste test done between these machines, (to eliminate any expectation bias) again using a good grinder. There is little doubt that The Lelit Bianca is a more capable machine but it would seem that the taste of the espressos they both produce is very comparable.

I've been using a BBE that I bought LIGHTLY used for $300 (A serious steal.) I just ordered the Bianca this morning, and I am SO. DAMN. EXCITED. Looking forward to giving the BBE to my mother for Christmas. Nice video!!

I think Breville hit a home run with the Barista Pro, which is faster, makes better steam, has the digital display with shot timer, and a grinder with better adjustment (compared to the Barista express).

Is the Bianca worth it to me? Ive had mine for about 4 months now and the dual boiler is making the whole difference, from my 12yo Rancilio Silvia. PID and the paddle. The paddle is really usefull, especially when i use darker roasted beans. Also being able to adjust water temperature is amazing. 93c for my darker roasts and 95c for light roasts. I live in Norway and we usually use a bit lighter roasted beans than most other countries. With all the adjustments possible on the Bianca, i can use lower quality beans and still get great tasting espresso.

Subscribed! Great video bro!

Finally someone who also talks about how the coffee tastes from these machines (very good!). All the bad ones about how to unpack the machine and how to use it. Those who go to the purchase of such machines know how these work.

Hi great videos and so helpful , i have a question what do u think about the Phillips late go and do u think it’s good as the Briville barista express ? Thank u

This is an awesome video! My husband got me the barista express for xmas and now we are both obsessed learning all about good coffee and is getting into a hobby! We even talked about upgrading it once we learn all the basics and mastered them haha... I see you amazon list but which is the the grinder you actually use? Do you have a video explaining whats the difference about the portafilters sizes? Im still confused about that.. new subscribers here!

I upgraded from Breville barista express to lelit bianca. And I can say it is day and night

I have the BBE and recently upgraded to a Eureka Specialita Mignon grinder. The grinder makes a lot of difference over the built in grinder.

I love my Breville ! I don’t care how sexy and amazing the Lelit Bianca is. Lol

I'd love to see a comparison between this Breville and the Bellisimo by Café cause that one is so pretty, the reviews look good, and it's priced competitively with the Breville

A transparent glass you have made this video so much better! Thanks for your time doing this.

Thank you for the video! I strongly agree, the grinder is most important. However I own an E61 and Olympia Cremina, so I guess that my vote is to have a better machine as well. 😂 The creaminess from better machines is worth it for me.

This was a great comparison video. As someone who just upgraded from a Breville Bambino Plus to a Bianca, Kyle is 100% correct that the biggest difference will be texture, but if you’re playing with flow rate, the flavors are much more balanced and round on the Bianca as well. Breville was a great machine to learn the basics, but the quality of my shots are far superior on the Bianca. I was skeptical that this could be true, but having an E61 machine with a rotary pump makes a big difference. I got lucky and was looking for machines just as Lelit had a 20% off sale, but if your budget allows for a machine like this, you won’t be disappointed. Thank you Kyle for creating trustworthy content. Home espresso is an investment, and people like you make it easier to pull the trigger on a purchase like this.

Great and helpful video Kyle! just want to ask or maybe a new video request hehe. If you have $1,900 budget for espresso machine to be used for a small cafe what can you suggest to start with?

I have the Barista Express, it's really nice. However, going back I would invest in a high end grinder and pair it with a relatively cheap espresso machine. The grind uniformity has way more impact than anything else. Even a $4k espresso machine will pull shots that have unwanted sourness and bitterness if the grind profile is bad. On the other hand, perfectly ground coffee will extract better and more consistently even with cheaper machines.

Love these I made a lot of espresso with my BE and now I have a DE1pro. My BE was great for getting started. However it just broke after 5 years and I need to replace the 3 way solenoid

I use the flow control Profitec 500 heat exchanger. I previously used the Bree (w/o grinder). You are right, steaming is a MAJOR problem with Breville thermoblock. Big road block. Espresso quality also MUCH better with Profitec. But...I recommend starting with the Breville, and when you are ready, make the jump. You will appreciate it better in that order!

It's a good comparison, personally I was between the Breville dual boiler and profitec pro 600, I went with the profitec, the value ended up being in the overall aesthetic, I live in a small apartment and with a minimalist thought process you tend to just spend the extra money and get what you really want, making coffee is a morning ritual and you want to be using something that's beautiful.

can you do a comparison video with the breville being the expensive one?

Awesome comparison thanks

I have a Barista Express 870XL From like 2013 or 2014. I have had to replace one of the solenoid valves in it, and I have had to replace the internal button for the grinder, a total cost of around 80 dollars for the parts. I was able to teardown the device and replace the parts effectively. It's a long lasting machine in my opinion!

“Who do you think I am? Gayle?” 😂😂😂😂

I’ve had a Breville pro dual boiler for around 6 years, hasn’t missed a beat. Like the sry quick startup, programming, pre fusion, temp etc and put 5,800 cups through it. Saying that, I’m thinking of a Bianca V3, not because I think the coffee will be so much better, it won’t, mainly because of the looks, and some shot profiling. The greater return will be from a grinder upgrade and fresh coffee weekly. I don’t think people could taste the difference and even if the could, people don’t do comparative tastes between machines. It’s frankly about so you like the looks, yeah it’s pretty sweet, and how is your budget. Breville dual boiler is excellent, often in sale in Au for sub 1k

One thing to consider is depth of the machine. You'll need a counter 20" deep minimum for the Lelit. I went with the Breville as it's all in one and only 13.5" deep so it fit easily on our appliance cart and we didn't need to use up valuable counter space in our small kitchen. I only use it a couple of times per week however once I' got the grinder dialed in I've never had an issue in the 2 years I've owned it. Bought it on the Breville Ebay store for about $550 CAD & free shipping!

@KyleRoswell You mentioned texture. Do you think that the rotary pump in Bianca might provide better texture than the vibration pump in Elizabeth?

I have that Sage/ Breville. My first. Just bought a 1zpresso max to try to improve my grind. First time dialling in today!

Great comparison!

Hey Kyle, would you check whats the brewing pressure on both machines, me thinks the the breville lowering the breville higher brewing pressure may impact the shot.

Love your vids, what do you think of the Breville Barista pro? Thx

I would do a flair before I did either of these two machines. Budget and quality. The only thing you can cast doubt on compared to the lelit is the temp control.

watching this video while brewing my coffee with cheap nescaffe dolce gusto lumio

Now I'm curious to see a shot comparison using the Breville Barista's grinder.

Hi Kyle, want to ask your opinion, i had a Breville Barista Express, should i get flair classis or pro 2 if i aim to get more in espresso? or Breville Barista Express actually make similar espresso quality with flair?

I own the breville & now make better coffee than those who work at Blue Bottle. You can do so much with the Breville once it’s adjusted for the beans especially under Manual mode. My main issue is dialing the grinder requires wasting a lot of coffee beans (or low pressure shots). Steam wand is slow but for doing things yourself it won’t matter.

Time to compare the Breville Pro. It has significant improvements over the express model. Does the walnut finish make make the coffee taste better??

Great video ! But it's kind of a strange comparison because the Breville has the built in grinder which wasn't involved in the comparison. So it really says that don't bother using the Breville grinder if you want great results. At that point why would you buy that machine when you really would want to purchase a stand alone quality grinder to go with it which of course defeats the purpose of having a built in grinder. So it comes back to those two machines being extremely far apart in general (not just in terms of cost). If you want mediocre pseudo espresso and latte's, the Breville will be just fine for many people. but they won't be able to improve the results or their skills given the limitations of the machine. You can quickly end up going down a rabbit hole with machines and grinders and be looking at thousands of dollars. You can also get good results with something like a Gaggia Classic Pro and a Baratzo Encore grinder. Then you will be able to develop real skills without being held back too much by the hardware. It won't get you to the Lelit class, but much further than that all in one Breville solution.

I just got myself a Ceado E6P on sale to replace the breville dual boiler’s included smart grinder pro. Can’t wait for fluffy grounds!

Respect to BBE's espresso making ability and how long it's lasted, but now I know that I need to upgrade to this baby

Hi Kyle, I see on your video that the woiden elements of the Lelit Bianca machine is light brown. In other videos or pics on the internet, i see dark brown. Does it then come with several shades of brown? Thanks

This video is exactly what I was looking for . I have Bezzera Crema + Niche Zero and I have to say I love faffing around dialling my shots so I don’t think I’d ever replace it with semi automatic like Barista pro

Love the channel

Saw this and had to get me a new one. I have the Phillips 3200 but now love the breville

I’ve easily purchased multiple Lelit Biancas worth of Starbucks over the last 20+ years.

Could you share what grinder you used ? I have the Breville and it is still working so don’t want to change it. Maybe an upgrade of the grinder would work. Thanks!

Dude, how do you only have 2k subscribers? This is easily one of the best coffee channels on RU-vid! Keep it up!

Heston Blumenthal has a podcast and in the episode about coffee he talked about his involvement with the design of the Sage/Breville Barista. Recommended listening!

Did you use stock baskets? I’d be curious to compare the mouthfeel with the same baskets..

I have watched 50 videos on all types of machines and NO ONE talks about LONGEVITY. Thank you. You were the FIRST. If I am plunking down $4k for a machine I dont want to hear it will last 2k or 5k cups of joe before it dies. I want it in YEARS. I just bought the Jura S8 but honestly I am thinking about returning it for the Lelit with the 61 grouphead. In 7 years you will not care how much you paid for it as you will feel like you are paying only for the beans and the milk which is the way it SHOULD be. The only downside is the wife likes a cup of coffee and the convenience of the superautomatics. But the HUGE downside also of the superautomatics is the cleaning supply costs and the time spent. A great cup of espresso is nice but the taste is forgotten if you have to spend more time cleaning and ordering more pricey supplies to keep it running.

I would say it is a fair comparison if the comparison is with the 920 version or higher. It would both have dual boiler and 58mm porterfilter. This comparison has no merit when the spec of the machine is that different.

Does a grinder makes that much difference? I have a Rancilio rocky should I upgrade to the Niche?

Which roaster and what coffee did you use for this? I'm from Vancouver and always looking for new beans.

Just got my Breville Bambino a few days ago. I need to get a grinder so I can start grinding my own coffee. But so far I love it!!

Quick question- I’m in between the lelit Bianca and Profitec Pro 700. Any recommendations between the two?

Enjoyed the video. I’ve owned the BBE in the past and it’s nice there are options for someone on a budget or just getting into espresso. But once you go down the espresso rabbit hole you’ll upgrade quickly :-). 3 machines later I’m on an ECM Synchronika and it’s night and day from the quality to the workflow. Probably would have been cheaper overall just going with that to start with but I learned a lot during the process.

Great video! Excuse sir, what do you think about a 58mm entry level machine versus the Bianca. I have a gaggia classic pro machine with PID control and I ordered a niche zero grinder on March delivery. Do you think that I will have a good home espresso workflow or it's worth the money to upgrade to a dual boiler machine? Thanks for your time!

Hello! Thanks for your great videos. I want an espresso machine for a small cafeteria, under $1500, that can make 60-100 cups a day and doesn't weigh too much. What would you recommend me?

Interesting would be to take the express out and put the breville dual boiler into this comparison

Breville Barista Express has some nice upgrades that can make it much better. Like the bottomless potafilter and the basic.

Love this video! Thanks for comparing these almost „incomparable“ machines, I was really wondering if I should get the breville or should save up for a better one. I don’t love the longer warm up time on the dual boiler machines, sometimes I want espresso right then, and a half hour warm up would be too much for me. So I was thinking it’s probably better to compromise on the machine but get a better grinder and have quick decent espresso „now“, instead of having the perfect one „half an hour from now“

Is CIME with an E64 group any good second hand and serviced? Whats cime with e64 even mean??

Love this video and your approach. One big nit: why don't you show the shot? Pull it into a clear shot glass. Describe the consistency of the heart, the body, and the crema. How do they relate to what you expect from that bean, ground that way? In a video we have access to sight and sound. While I can't necessarily pick out a good shot by sight on my home machine, I can definitely spot a bad one. You spend a fair bit of time attempting to describe the difference in textures that are present in the two white cups; it would be very helpful simply to show it.

Hey Kyle, this video is like answer to my long pending decision to buy between BBE & Lelit Bianca. Thank you. I have one more question, i plan to open a small cafe and use Lelit Bianca in that, so how much time between 2 shots to pull, since it cannot maintain the temperature as u mentioned?

Hey Kyle, is the texture a result of the portafilter size or pump? The breville dual boiler would be a better comparison

How Long did u use barista express before u bought lelit bianca? After how many years did u upgrade?

If i have a party and want to make a shot for everybody, i'm not gonna use coffee....

Personally run a 1zpresso jx pro with a rancilio silvia with pid. Worked well for the last 6 years

Is it possible to mod the Breville's grinder, say, replace the burrs among other things?

Great video. Perhaps compare them both using the Breville integrated grinder?

Hi Kyle. Just wondering about using the Lelit in a small commercial space. I've spoken to retailers who have told me that these machines are good for long term use and will need a lot of maintenance. Would you find this to be true? If so, what would you recommend for a commercial machine with one group head?

Uhhh I don’t really buy the taste test, unless it’s a double blind test. Cause you’re telling yourself even before tasting it that the more expensive machine is going to be better.

The end of this video was hilarious, after that I had to hit the subscribe button. Hey I need help please do a Gaggia classic pro review. I want to know if I have a really decent grinder what is a better buy? Like what will pull better shots? I think steam is even better on classic pro. But will the pro pull the texture shot like your big boy machine? We know the breville won’t I mean had good taste like you said but texture is important to me as well. Torn between breville and classic pro?? If you had a really good grinder what one would you then buy based on performance not cost. Which one pulls better shots?? Breville vs Classic Pro??Thanks so much

I have a Kinu Grinder and I think it is enough for home espresso, does the Breville Bambino do the work?

Hey! Thinking of getting the Breville Dual Boiler, how would hold up against the Bianca?

As much as I understand that using the breville grinder would have not been fair, that exactly what I want to know. I currently own a barista express, and I won't buy a external grinder for this machine. Useless since it has one on it. But I want to know how much of an upgrade would it be to pay 4k$ for a new machine and grinder to replace my barista express ?

Hi, can you provide a link to the grinder please?

One is an appliance as you said, like a toaster. When the breville breaks like a toaster, you throw it in the garbage. The lelit will be around as long as you maintain it. Ten, 20 years it your choice how long you want to use it.

KilR vid bub!!! I’ve been looking into exactly how REAL espresso was made or done…hear all about the French Press…to me their a more simple just percolator or one step up?? And then you have these tubers that don’t even know the difference in espresso and cappuccino etc…??!! For I got my hook up on REAL espresso a few years ago, I lived in Puerto Rico for a number of months on a job, well we were introduced to the best legal “speed” we ever saw hahaha so oh yeah after that EVERY morning we got a couple (if daring 3) shots and WOW we were so hopped up for a while it was awesome as we went to job site at 4:00 and was a one hour drive from San Juan, where we resided. Haha anyway this was the first of TWO videos where I learned the REAL difference thank you sir awesome and complete job!! I think I’ll go a different route as the French press 😂 although it probably can be used to make a very strong cup of coffee but NOT A SHOT!!😃👍🏻👊🏻 🙏 thank you kindly!!-Turbo.

Who do you think I am, Gail? LMAO!! I can't believe she retired. I would imagine Gail is responsible for tons of sales and not just for Seattle Coffee Gear. She said she did over four thousand videos. I may have never watched this video if it wasn't for her. That said, nice video and a video that makes me reflect back to all the money I've wasted on coffee gear to only realize I should have bought something like the Lelit at the beginning. At least if it didn't work out I could have sold it for a couple of grand. Nobody's ever gonna shell out $450 for a used Breville.

Would be interesting to have seen a comparison using the Breville (Sage here in the UK) dual boiler which is still far cheaper (under £1200) than the Lelita at about £1,789. Don't know what the price difference in the USA is. With that saving here I could by either a Eureka or Niche grinder too.

I'm happy with a Dedica, open portafilter, Breville Smart Grinder Pro and Hausbrandt Nonetti

What's your take on pump machine like the bianca against a spring lever machine? Will there be a significant difference in taste?