What do you think? Are there pickups you recommend similar to these Ron Ellis pickups? ✅The great $400 guitar I used on 5 albums 🎸 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bIQiWfeWLA4.html
No, I'd recommend swapping speakers before I spent $800 on pickups. Pickups aren't made of magic powder and unicorn farts and don't do as much as changing a speaker would. Lots of pickups claim to do a lot of different things but the differences are often minuscule when compared to the differences a high quality speaker will do
The new pickup felt like it catches the middle strings, maybe it's preferred for rock music than jazz. And I don't know but I'm sure of one thing for a good sound you surely need a good guitar and good strings. Anything else is more of an individual choice. Hope it makes sense
It’s amazing how much you can get almost any guitar pretty close to a guitar you don’t own for a sound you want with an EQ pedal. You can have one guitar and a new pedal and a piece of paper for different presets you can dial in quickly and you can basically get different guitar sounds. You can make a single coil sound like a P90 or a even close to a humbucker if you dial in a Boss GE7. Can’t recommend a modded (less noise) GE-7 enough. It’s cheap and it works pretty well. I get along more using a Strat and eq/boosting it to sound like a humbucker than I do with the guitar I have that has humbuckers - but this is because until a year ago I only ever played strats and teles so maybe it’s psychological.
Ah pickups wound with gold-rhodium alloy wire, wrapped tightly around ivory bobbins by the hands of a blind gypsy, utilizing the rarest of meteor magnetite for pole pieces, and finally potted with the blood of a virgin.
Electronic engineer that is also a guitarist here. The resistance, capacitance and inductance of the pickup combined with the resistance and capacitance of the volume/tone harness will have a certain frequency response, this frequency response cuts frequencies (no boosting unless you're active) picked up from the string vibrations in the magnetic field of the pickups. If you change the pickups you will change the frequency response of your guitar, unless you change it to something with the same characteristics. A much cheaper and versatile way of changing your tone is to swap the pots and/or caps in the volume/tone circuitry to get the brighter or darker response you're after. You can even change the circuit to do 'shape' the frequency response more towards you preference. Alas, there's way too much cork sniffing and 'magic' attached to all manner of things when it comes to guitar tone.
magnet strength and pole piece height, along with number of winds has an effect too. These influence the signal as it's being picked up, so it's slightly different. Although the number of winds dictates the capacitance, resistance and inductance of the pickup, along with the wire gauge, insulation thickness etc. Anyway, that's a whole different ball park, and assuming you have enough winds for the pickup not to be too feeble, you can play around with capacitors and resistors and get far more variation in tone from a few dollars than you can from hundreds by buying pickups.
@@nsjohnston Finally, someone that is knowledgeable in the comments. I completely agree. I would argue that all of the tonal differences that he noticed were because of the magnets. He went from the Epiphone ProBuckers which were AlNiCo 2 to the BKP Mules which were AlNiCo 4 to the Ron Ellis which (my educated guess would be) are AlNiCo 5. The more powerful the magnet, the more pronounced the U-shaped frequency response gets (everything else considered equal).
@@ErebosGR I'd like to hear an explanation of this "The more powerful the magnet, the more pronounced the U-shaped frequency response gets", I can't think why the magnet strength would have an effect on the frequency response unless it's dampening the string vibration, there could be something there.. Not really my area of expertise. I'm unsure what a U shaped response is either. Supressed mids? I'd expect it to be mostly a low pass filter with a bit of extra stuff going on because of the inductance etc. in the pickup.
It's gonna be a no from me, chief. No pickup is worth that much. They are not worth half of that, I can't understand even how people regularly pay a quarter of it. It's not a quantum computer, we are talking about the most retro piece of tech imaginable.
Agreed. Same tech that holds things to your fridge. Unless total garbage pickups I think it's pots, amp, string gauge, distance to PUs, position of PUs etc. Over the years I've learned the expensive lesson that the only way to make your guitar sound like the one you want is to buy the one you want.
Yeah, I'd rather get a guitar worth 800+400. At least you get better build, better worksmanship than a 400-guitar. Sorry, pickups at this price range are just stupid.
Winding pickings is actually quite a difficult skill and to do it at a truly high level requires a great deal of knowledge, training, and expertise. Not to mention, the taste that is developed over years of experimenting to give a customer a consistent, reliable product that sounds the way it claims to. Just because technology is “old” doesn’t make it cheap or less valuable. In fact, in many cases the opposite is true.
My Sheraton 2 has Gibson 57s with coil cutoffs. For me this is a completely acceptable option. The rest can be adjusted with an equalizer and compressor. Your new sound search is also great. The guitar has dynamics and that's great!
I’ve Swapped Out Stock Epi Pickups with a Gibson 57 and a Gibson 57+ in a Few Guitars Over the Years of Course You Need to Upgrade to the Proper Pots and Caps as Well However with Doing That the Much Better Increase in Tonal Quality is Distinctly Audible ! I Suggest to Those That Deny This to Have Your Ears Checked and/or Cleaned ! As Further Actual Proof I Had a Set of Seymour Duncan Custom Shop Hand Wound High Voltage by “MJ” Which are Thee Set Angus Young Uses Even the Luthier I Brought Them to With My SG Was Excited I Scored a Set Back in 2020 !!! No Longer Available Hand Wound by MJ Who’s Made Pickups for MANY Big Name Guitarists She’s Pretty Well Known For it ! Now the High Voltage Set is Machine Made 😢 But MY SG Screams WITHOUT ANY PEDAL 🎶♥️🎶‼️‼️‼️
I think the most important crucial detail that consumers miss when they talk about pickups. It's almost always "I changed the pickups in my cheap $100 guitar and it made a difference" In my honest opinions those guitars are intentionally gimped to sound bad and have bad pickups so you shell out more money for higher end guitars. If you buy any midrange guitar changes are the pickups on it are completely fine these days.
The Ellis are something else. Of course, using modellers and compression in recording will take away most of their shine. Perhaps we should all go back old school, those Blue Note recordings with simple amps and high end mics. To me they remain the reference for classic jazz guitar sound.
Depends on who you ask, surely? To the sales person, "why not buy two sets?" To a parent, "Johnny, your guitar is perfectly fine!" To a tone chaser, "may be I need those pickups AND one more guitar!" Me, "nah, I can think of custom pick up winders who can very proficiently and way more than adequately meet my needs." On a side note, if I had to spend $800 on guitar stuff whilst a $400 guitar is in my quiver so to speak, I would use that budget on a better amp BEFORE a pickup swap. Just my 2 cents.
Nope...😊 Its all "snake oil"...as Lee Anderton admitted. If you want to change your sound...change your amp or effects EQ, or change your pots and wiring. Pick-ups hardly effect the tone in comparison to these.
Jens do you use flat wound strings? I’ve been using half wound and like the brightness without the squeak. We guitarist are always looking for that elusive sound.
This all depends on what $800 means to you. If its a drop in the bucket - yeah, why not. Mainly, Im impressed you still have an Epiphone E on your pickguard. Ive had acouple and those things fall off in less than a week.
Your "E" is still on there because your guitar is a Samick or Unsung-built Sheraton Jens...and not a modern day Chinese one. The Korean buillt Epis are far superior in terms of build quality. I know...I've had dozens go through my workbench.
@@christoguichard4311 makes sense. Do you know when they switched production away from Korea? I bought a Casino in Korea maybe 15 years ago and I believe it was Chinese.
The first or at least an early video you did on this sheraton is why I later purchased a used one from a pawn broker. It was a 1997 model. I gotta tell ya, until I later purchased a fender ultra luxe, it was my favorite guitar. Number 1. Unfortunately I lost both guitars and many other things in a house fire a couple months ago. But a Sheraton or maybe a Rivera will be my first purchase when selecting replacement guitars. And these RE pups are gonna be next. Thanks for another cool video sir.
That is really great to hear 🙂 Congrats on that Epi! Edit: Crap, I didn't read the whole comment. Horrible that your house burned! Hope you get that sorted out and that you are insured!
I had my Epi 335 dot's stock pickups replaced with Lollar low-wind P-90s and like you, I was blown away by the difference. (Especially from the stock sound.) However - I also had the wiring replaced and the nut - after those changes the guitar's tonal colour changed completely. And I removed the pickguard :)
This whole concept of diminishing returns is intriguing. From the original Sheraton you bought, did the initial switch from the MIK PAFs to Bare Knuckles PLUS the new wiring harness deliver the biggest tonal improvement… and the Ron Ellis PAFs just provided additional icing on the cake? Or was it more than that?
You cannot accurately remember sound for longer than about 7 seconds. The whole audio industry hinges on people being unaware of this, be it Hi-Fi or instruments. So your perception of the sound in the workshop after the switch probably was more influenced by expectation, blurry memories etc. than the actual sound. In the recordings you can hear a slight difference in the frequency response, as you described. But are the pick-ups less mid focused because they are more expensive? Or are they just expensive pick-ups that happen to be less mid focused? You could easily switch the price tags and say "listen to this amazing bass response in the Bare Knuckles" and so on.
It seems like the issue is a tonal one, more than overall 'quality' of the sound. I'm curious how the Bare Knuckle Stormy Monday set would sound compared to both sets you used in the video, as this is apparently the set Bare Knuckle typically recommends for ES-335 style guitars. Even BK's tonal chart for the Stormy Monday set shows a much more prominent Bass frequency character, which might help with that 'nasal' midrange sound you noted from the Mule set. Thanks for sharing the journey, Jens. Cheers from Canada!
Yes, I don't think this in anyway shows that BK pickups are bad, both RIchard and I say that several times in the video. It is indeed a bit random which pickups I have tried, and I have never tried the Stormy Mondays. The Ellis pickups are very bright which I think works well with the guitar, and the nasal character might also be about the guitar being like that 🙂
Just got me a cheap ibanez jazzbox that came with their cheapest and really hot humbuckers. Have an old pat metheny super 58 coming that im going to put in it. I can get good tones from the stock pickup but expecting a enough of a difference to notice.
Hey Jens. Great video. You came to the same conclusion I always come to. Of course I hear a difference...right...maybe...I'm not really sure...they kinda sound the same to my ears. Coincidentally, last week I did my first pickup swap EVER in 30 years of playing. I have an affinity strat with the perfect neck and I wanted to see if putting in a set of $300 920D Customs would make a difference over the $30 ceramic pickups that came stock. While I was slightly disappointed by the lack of output from the the 920Ds, I was pleasantly surprised at how much of a difference I FELT. Pretty big difference in touch response. I'm going to try changing the height of the pickups and see if that adds a bit of output because I love the clarity and articulation. Are they night and day better? Not to my ears. Are they worth the upgrade for a serious player? Probably. I'm just not that good. Thanks. Mark
I find the biggest change occurs when I use heavy strings on the top to reduce the snappy-ness and lighter strings on the bottom to reduce the boom. Also backing the pickups down just a bit on the bass side helps with the boom. Standard PAF’s are fine for jazz, that being said, I’ve been using the Benedetto A-6 in the neck position for jazz which I feel is a bit better. Even still, setup is the key to finding the sound I like for jazz.
So many great pickups for quite a bit less money. My Sheraton 2 has cheap Tonerider vintage humbuckers (full size) and it sounds as good as or better than a friend 's stock ES 335 (57 Classic) and my Eastman with SD Benedetto A6s.. I think Seymour Duncan and others make fantastic pickups for less than half this expense. (hard to tell on RU-vid any treal difference to your other pickups).
The pickups sound brighter and cleaner, but did not sound to me like an improved tone. I would try using the Bare Knuckles set at lower height (back off the screws by 1 full turn), and maybe use a cleaner amp setting. I personally prefer the demo of the Bare Knuckles as they seem to compliment the guitar pretty well IMO.
I have the same guitar that you have. I replaced switch, tuners, pots, caps and pickups! I am using the locally made TV Jones pups - highly recommend them!
My old 90s Japanese-made Telecaster always sounded a bit flat and the volume was always very low compared to the rest of my guitars, so I put a Seymour Duncan Little 59 set in it - a Vintage Stack noiseless pickup in the neck, and the Little 59 humbucker in the bridge. Almost nothing changed, except that now when playing through the neck pickup on my Quilter amp, the guitar is so, so bassy I cannot play at any reasonable volume without sounding ridiculous, even with the bass completely cut on the amp. I'll likely never change pickups again.
Jens, love the cameos in your videos and thought bubbles , can’t think of any guitar videos that get a checkin from Monk and Carl Jung in the same day 😆 I play a $400 Ibanez jazz machine and I’m thinking of upgrading the pickups. You have convinced me , though I doubt I’ll go in for $800. Any suggestions on $100-$150 jass pups?
I'll go against the current and say "Sure", if it gets you where you want to be. It's still *only* $1,200.00 total, and you're a high-level professional who knows what he wants. I don't know (yet) exactly what the pickups offer you, but crossing the line into "diminishing returns" territory can for sure be worth it, to me. Aesthetic experience, beauty...compared to the value of money, surely a purely personal thing?
@@JensLarsen True, but I have one here with me! I don't think the pickups are that important! Except the output power. Your devices can compensate for the small differences! Maybe you're used to the sound of the Ibanez! As we all know, they like to sound clearer!
@@JensLarsen True, but I have one here with me! I don't think the pickups are that important! Except the output power. Your devices can compensate for the small differences! Maybe you're used to the sound of the Ibanez! As we all know, they like to sound clearer!
Добрый день, Jens! Вы не могли бы подсказать, - вот пришла мне новая бас-гитара Squier Affinity Series Precision Bass PJ Laurel Fingerboard с интернет-магазина, - красивая и внешне качественная, НО - довольно сильно фонит! Прикоснёшься рукой к крутилкам или к струнам, сразу тишина, убираешь пальцы, сразу высокочастотный фон! Дело не в шнуре, и не в усилителе, так как менял по всякому, не помогает. При игре стоит шорох и раздаются щелчки от прикосновения к струнам.. Такая картина - это же ненормально? Гитара стоит 400 долларов.. Или же и другие гитары, подороже, также создают фон!? И можно ли что то теперь сделать с этим? Очень жаль отправлять обратно в магазин эту гитару...
Phil McKnight recently explained Glenn’s PU comments from both sides. The tone seeking guitarist and the engineer/producer creating a mix/album sound. Is there a difference? Sure! Is it worth the money instead of the speaker change? Not if you are recording albums. Even Rick Beato has said in the studio the speaker makes the biggest change. There is a making of Mellon Collie and the I finite Sadness and Billy (who straddles that line of metal and super cleans tone chasing) talked about speaker changes were where they focused on tone changes. Have I upgraded pickups? Yup sure have and for metal it made a change for me. But I don’t have a high gain amp. Classic amp I’m boosting with a TS and hotter Pick Up. Being new to jazz my entry level guitar was a used Aria. It plays great and I love it. But like the epiphone should I upgrade to a better quality guitar or spend a lot to have pickups upgraded. I guess time will tell. I do love playing that smile guitar and unless I win the lottery I can’t see replacing it. Good video Jens.
Jens Larsen I say yes, with one understanding. That life is short and you should play what you love. I think they do ring a little clearer, revealing the upper registers in jazz chords. Beautiful. And yes the law of diminishing returns is real, but when you spend years mastering a instrument, I say play what inspires you. You earned the best. Love your playing and videos, keep it up and GOD bless you, and your family. ❤
I listened very carefully with good headphones. Analytically I could hear a very small difference, but not one to make a significant difference in music. Yes, the old set was a bit more nasal, and with more bass, while rhe new one are a bit more articulate in the mids & highs. But that's something that I could hear only if listening purposefully for tone, comparing the two. Strangely enough, I could hear the difference better when playing single lines rather than chords. But again, not something to make a difference musically. So, to conclude: the jump from stock pickups to decent pickups definitelly makes sense... but after a certain level (which is not that advanced), the differences are so minimally incremental, that it's not worth bothering about it. Couldn't you get the same results with some adjustments of the amp's EQ ?
Pickups act as inductors, which have a low-pass filtering property. The strength (inductance) of that inductor, in combination with the tone circuit (capacitor and pot) in your guitar gives you fairly flat frequency response up to a corner frequency, after which volume falls off steadily with frequency, and may give you a bit of a resonant bump at the corner frequency. The biggest difference between pickups (aside from sheer volume, which you can compensate for with a volume control) is just where that corner frequency is, and how much of a bump you get there, given your tone circuit arrangement. The biggest difference between normal humbuckers and normal single-coils is just that the single coils have a higher corner frequency. If you want tonal variation, your two best bets are (1) having a coil-split switch so that you can use your humbuckers as single coils (just using one of the two sides of each pickup) and make your Gibson sound like a Fender, or (2) an EQ to effectively move the corner freqency up or down. (You can roll off the highs starting below the pickup's corner frequency, to put the knee lower, or boost the highs somewhat above the corner frequency to effectively move the corner frequency up.) One very versatile arrangement is an HSH (humbucker-singlecoil-humbucker) strat with coil splits on the humbuckers. (The Nashville-style Tele used by a lot of studio guitarists in Nashville is just a Telecaster with HSH (& coil split) pickups like an HSH strat; it's one guitar that can do all the things people expect from electric guitars.)
I've got Bare Knuckles in my Les Paul, but I've got a Riff Raff in the bridge - very mid focused - and a Stormy Monday in the neck. The Stormy Monday is described on the BK website as being more hollow and it seems to me more like the way you're describing these new pickups. Either way, it's a terrific jazz pickup. I also have one of their humbucker sized P90s (the Manhattan) in an Ibanez archtop and that's also stunning.
Very interesting Jens! Did you keep the stock wiring/pots or change those also? If you'd had the BK Stormy Monday set I expect there would have been less of a difference - maybe ;-)
Hi Jens, thanks for great content, I`ve been watching your stuff for a few years already. As for the pickups change - in my opinion it`s mainly psychological difference, similar as in hi-fi equipment snobbery, based on the mechanism "I`ve spent more, I feel it`s better". It`s all happening in your head.... just as anything else we see, hear, smell, etc. Keep up the great work 😀
Wow. Maybe play guitar more. pickups make a huge difference. Doesn't matter if they are 800 or 80 dollars, they all read the strings differently. the only thing that smells is your mom.
I want to buy a jazz guitar nice & compact not very heavy & sound like George Benson & not expensive not more than 500$ which brand should I search for & which model ?
I recently thought about buying a cheap guitar and switching the pickups. This will sorta answer that question. I wouldn’t want the cost of both to be more then I’m willing to pay on just the guitar considering I want it to be my cheap guitar, like a sleeper
^This! I managed to get a guitar for cheap, and some pickups also quite cheaply. Together with professional installation the guitar overall costs the same as a stock new one. I'll lose money if I sell, but I planned on keeping it from the start. It needs at least a fret dress now, or better yet, a refret, but I have had so much fun on it I am glad to have walked this road, even if only a short distance.
1. While watching the video on lower quality speakers, I preferred the sound of the Bareknuckles, but with headphones I prefer the RE's 2. An EQ + compressor/clean boost before any effects/preamp can do what a pickup change does for the guitar's tone but with much more range and versatility. It's not EXACTLY the same thing as a pickup swap but all effects-using guitarists should consider this option before spending unnecessary money
I got lucky with a 1980 Gibson 335-S Professional Deluxe. It has original Tim Shaw designed Dirty Fingers humbuckers and a coil tap switch. I play through a Marshall DSL40C. I never played anything else. I love my rig. I've been told that my pickups are too 'hot' for jazz, but I don't have any problems. My teacher used to say that it had everything to do with my pickhand, not my pickup. He was right.
Pickup builders definitely know how to "voice" them. I struggle with "fairy dust" and "snake oil" type products as much as the next guy. That and there's about $10 of material in a pickup. I decided to swap my Seymour Duncan HB Jazz set out of my '06 Epiphone SG for P90s. Was ready to do some Fralin's or something and bought both sets of Toneriders for the same price(wasn't sure if I would think the neck was hot enough or bridge too hot). Alnico II(Vintage) Neck and Alnico V(Mean) bridge. Sounds beautiful. Same "new guitar" feeling for $200. Same type to same type, in the mix(live or recording), I doubt I would notice. We eq with tone knob, fingers, the mix. It sure is fun, though! I have no hollow or semi and have a hankerin' for that Ibanez JSM20.
The tonal differences you noticed had nothing to do with their price tag but their magnets. The stock Epiphone ProBuckers in the Sheraton II are virtually identical to any mainstream or boutique AlNiCo 2 pickup. You went from AlNiCo 2 -> AlNiCo 4 -> AlNiCo 5. The stronger the magnet, the stronger the U-shaped frequency response gets. Any mid-scooped AlNiCo 5 pickup, like the appropriately named Seymour Duncan Jazz, or even a magnet-swapped ProBucker, would sound practically the same. Paying $800 for 2 pairs of coils is absurd.
Jens - I thought your main guitar was the Ibanez! LOL! FWIW I put Manlius unpotted A3 '59LT in my Eastman T-486 and Manlius unpotted A4 Fat Diane's in my Epiphone ES 335 Pro. No question better pickups make for a better guitar - that and the amp & speaker.
The difference is psychology. Your brain is telling you it sounds $800 better. Listening from here it doesn’t. But if it makes you feel like your playing better, fine. It’s healthier than spending it on powders or pills. Guitarists are suckers for woo.
@@JensLarsen I meant the feeling of better sound. The tube amp moves more air, has more punch and overtones - all this attracts the feeling I would say. Thats why playing at home is sounding much better with an (tube)amp than a modeler. For recording modelers do the job as good as an amp...
@@hermeneut No, I think I feel the difference through my modeler live as well. At least I play the guitar 50x as much. I just can't illustrate it with a recording. Let's not get into too many vague descriptions that don't have real definitions it gets a bit tinfoil hatty.
So this is why "your guitar" looks different lately - different guitar! In your chord/melody bake-off, I couldn't hear a frequency difference, but the Ron Ellis pickups sound looser, in a good way. Less staccato. Then again, I've never owned Bare Knuckles pickups, but they're a gold standard for PAF reproductions.
honestly, being the mentally damaged guitar aficionado, that's the kind of difference I think I would be able to hear in a live context, but it's true that I wouldn't perceive any significant artistic difference. In any case, I think this is a good example of what changing pickups can do, be it a jazz instrument or another genre, because for a pickup change this is a BLATANT difference (more in the melody than the chords) thus, if you hear this and you don't hear/it doesn't matter to you, then you know you got a load off your back.
More of a blues/jazz blues player than a straight jazz player. The BYO Blizzard of '59 pickups work for me. It's a basic PAF clone with decent materials and wax potting if you want to wander into rock. For around $90 a set they give you that early PAF sound on a ramen budget.
what to expect? i changed the stock-humbuckers on my "Aria Pro II (330-full hollow)" against, an used SD_SH-2 on the neck and a '57 Classic Plus Gibson on the bridge. I would give it a 5 of 5 stars!
There's a very small difference. Definitely NOT worth that much money for a bit of coper wire and few magnets. Those pickups sound like my Tonerider in neck position. PLUS... People you have EQ on your Amp. USE IT.
IMHO, you can get amazing results with a little EQ and light compression even with stock EQs and compression offered by DAWS such as Logic Pro. As I have UAD interfaces, I've achieved satisfying results with their DSP plugins. This isn't difficult, most of the time I'll dial in the presets for any plugin used. For live gigs, I have a Johnson JM150 which to me is the best digital amp made with all the effects, EQ and compression built in. That amp does have a learning curve. But there are other units out there. The bottom line is you dont need $800 pickups unless it already comes with the guitar. I'm not knocking the Ellis pickups because they do sound very good. Whatever floats your boat as they say.
I've said this before on one of your previous pick up videos, but I changed the stock pick ups in an Epiphone Les Paul for Gibson Classic 57s and it made huge difference. Went from muffled and unclear to a rich, old school tone
Yes, the question really is are the expensive pickups better than cheap stock pickups? Not whether is worth the money or boutique vs boutique. People want to know if adding good pickups to expensive guitar improves the sound? YES! I also added 57 Classics to an Epiphone 335. Big difference! Stock pickups weren’t bad. 57s were better though.
Well....I don't even need to watch the video, know what guitar, or know what pickups are being discussed to say the answer is definitely a NO. Seriously...wth lol. No pickups are worth 800$, that's just silly. The most expensive pickup I own is a vintage "DeArmond Goldfoil single coil pickup". They go for a high price and imo they are worth it, IF it's a genuine one from the correct 1950s era. But even a set of 2 genuine Goldfoils would be around less than half the price of whatever bonkers pickups featured in this video. Ok now time to watch and see what is going on here.
Ellis is more open and more dynamic you can use, this could be benefit! Having good touch that could be benefit, if not someone would be more like BKP because that mid range could be covering up this thing
I'll probably be happy just getting a pair of Seymour Duncan SH-55n Seth Lover's on my 335 and use the rest of the money getting 500k pots and a great meal! Nice video though.
I think the acoustics in the workshop were very reverby. This is what made the treble poke out more then in your studio. But there is a difference, it’s just rather subtle for me listening
Pickups will never do what a good speaker does. Your $800 pickup swap could be avoided by just getting better speakers. The science speaks for itself. I like buying pickups often for aesthetic reasons. The most important part of your rig is the speakers- that's the last part of your sound and is where all the potential energy from your sound is converted to acoustic energy. Pickup companies will have people believing that the special unicorn pubes they use to wire their pickups will make your guitar sound great- which they won't if you have poor speakers. I know I just keep saying the same thing over and over, but it's true. Guitarists will spend thousands on pickups before they spend $80 on a high quality speaker that will actually improve their sound. Slayer, Metallica, and Zakk Wylde all use EMGs. Do they all sound the same? And before anyone tries to tell me "tone is in the hands"- if that were true then you wouldn't need any of your pedals and speakers would never matter, right? Guitar players- it's 2023. Smarten up. No respectable studio engineer cares about your pickups. They care about your speakers.
I always view equipment changes as how it influences my playing. When I switch guitars, my non-musician friends don’t hear a difference. However, the different guitar puts ME in a different place and takes my creativity elsewhere. I would be reluctant (thrifty!!) to try expensive pickups in a lower end guitar, but what you do to your guitar doesn’t affect my playing! If it takes you somewhere, then you did the right thing. Music would be boring if there was one formula for all of us.
For 800 bucks you can get a complete pickup winding setup, wires, magnets, bobbins etc and manufacture dozens of "handwound" pickups. Then you can choose the one you most like
Although really the only "different" pickups I've ever played are Wilde pickups, I must say these seem to bring a nice top end to your sound. Maybe the Bare Knuckles are way too hot also?
Jens....These new pickups are downright terrible. They sound tinny, lack depth, and dont come close to the bare nuckles. Surely you can tell there is no warmth ot emotion in them. Its a no from me. Go back to the others please. I found it hard to enjoy anything from them. Sorry... Cheers. Mike, 👍🎸🎸🎸🎸🎸
Sonically the difference is definitely very subtle, but I think in the focus on "tone" the feel to the player tends to be a more under-appreciated aspect. There are lots of examples where very subtle differnces may not be that audible to a listener but depending on the player it can make a huge difference to the perofrmance and its hard (basically impossible) to subract the subjective element here because its all so individual (which in my view is kinda cool and why in the world would you want to remove the subjective element in the first place?).
pick-ups are ok if tehy are more or less of quality, but much more important are neck and strings. Especially if trying those Thomastic flat wounded...
I'm glad you're happy, but to my ear, there was maybe a 1% difference on the single line that could easily be explained by it being two different performances, and maybe 5% on chord melody with a bit more treble response. Worth $800? Up to you and your wallet.
I don't think any pickup is worth that much money, it's not like they are as hard to make as a good amp. I actually prefered those Bare Knuckle pickups because they are not only less expensive, they sounded good enough for Jazz and would be a better choice for me if I was doing live solo guitar playing. Heck, I like to play Jazz on my 8 string with EMG pickups for a non typical pickups for some of the genres I play and it's my go to practice guitar because it has the most comfortable guitar neck I have ever played on. If I head those Bare Knuckle pickups with a thin pick I bet it would sound perfect for some tones I like for Jazz. I do also like the Allan Holdsworth chorus tones though. I do use hybrid picking a lot for playing chords though. I like to use my Hollow Body guitars on the neck pickup selection with a thin Animals as Leaders pick which makes even some muddy amps less muddy to my ears since the pick brightens up the sound a bit, but in a unique way that still sounds good for Jazz. I do like to use harder picks for other genres of music on electric guitar though. I even like hard picks for acoustic guitar playing.
I had Ellis LRP pups in a Les Paul. The clean sounds were outstanding: sweet, pleasing, nice clarity. But when I played blues gigs with low gain at a very modest volume they squealed uncontrollably. I don't use a lot of gain nor volume, but I finally had to give up and sell them. I hated to do it because those cleans were so sweet and clear. But the guitar became unuasble for me. I especially love the Humbuckers from Jim Rolph which are excellent. I have them in a ES-333.
As a guitar player who can't make up my mind whether I'm more into jazz or metal, I can definitely say that a metal player who wants to use more elaborate chords will definitely benefit from a higher quality pickup. 800 isn't cheap, but a full set of Fishmans or high end Seymour Duncans will set you back about the same amount. Guitar players who complain about a few hundred dollars should feel fortunate they don't need to shop for a concert grade cello bow haha... finding your voice is important. The right decision doesn't have to mean the more expensive choice, it really comes down to making critical and thoughtful choices and finding something youre happy with that will elevate your experience. And it doesn't even need to be a question if something is better or worse, just being different is enough. Qualitative opinions like that are completely subjective anyway so find what fits the sound profile you want to convey. I recently upgraded the pups on a cheap 7 string and it completely opened up the capabilities. It's so much clearer now and sounds great heavy or smooth, so I definitely don't think that chasing the right pickup is a fool's errand.
My attitude towards pickups is that they are dispensable items. The last thing I would judge the quality of a guitar by is the pickups. You can change them to anything you like. The only important thing about a guitar (and this is where price comes into play to some degree) is built quality and your personal preference for how it feels physically. Many things will affect the sound significantly more: small tweaks on your amp, changing the electronics, changing the pick, the use of pedals, etc. Electric guitars and sounds are shrouded in so much myth (read that as bullsh*t dogma). And it's not just guitars, it's true for audio gear too. In the end, pickups all have their voicings and thus will sound different in the same guitar. But depending which ones you are comparing, the differences might be minute to pronounced. When you are in a certain price bracket (boutique), the differences are minute and solely preferential in my opinion.
If you reduce the space between the low E-String and PU mulm in most cases goes away! Fine tuning with the hight of the pole-screws. But I do here some more grit on the Ellis, a hint more definition, maybe a higher output level? I made the experience that replacing cheap stock-pus with better ones make a huge difference. Replacing good pus with good pus ends like your records. Mostly a matter of taste IF there are differences.
I think for clean or slightly overdriven sounds pickups can make quite a difference in sound and feel. But when putting the guitar through effect chains or distortion then not so much. I like a slightly underfund pickup and notice a huge difference in lost dynamics with overwound pickups.
I do have to disagree about the difference for metal pickups, some play nicer with distortion than others. I swapped out a bridge dimarzio tonezone for a Titan on my ibanez, and it was a night and day difference (especially boosted with treble dimed). I've also had great experiences with Fishman Fluence pickups sounding clearer through layers of distortion.
Five minutes. I had just gotten that pick broken in?! Where did I put it? Is in in my clothes? I stood up. On my desk? Under my desk? Under the bed? I put the guitar away and crawled around on my hands and knees with a flashlight looking for it. For five minutes. It was on my lip the entire time. 😂
🤔A lot of "guitarists" don't seem to realize 😵💫 that once compression and distortion are added components of the sound, the nuances or differences in the sound of pickups, nuts, and bridges become completely inconsequential..👨🏻
I don’t hear any difference sorry man. Tougher though when it’s not live, plus anything sounds good with your playing. I only hear pickup differences going from single to humbucker or their positions. Otherwise they’re all the same to me.
So. Idk about about expensive anything. But if you have a piece of hardware that you love the feel of, and can see the potential of your equipment. I can see no problem with costumizing your equipment
They certainly sound as you describe, but maybe I'm just very suggestible 😂 I'm all for putting in pickups that are worth more than the guitar itself, I've got a Lollar Charlie Christian in a cheap ply- and balsa wood guitar and it sounds great.
The difference you presented here is noticeable in your example, but it's nothing a bit of eq'ing could make impossible for the human ear to be accurate regarding which pickup is which no less....keep practicing!
Changing the pickups is one of the easiest mods to do which can make a massive difference. I just changed a neck pickup in my main guitar (with a handmade Mr. Glyn -5% PAF) and it came to life. Also changed the pots which made a difference too (the taper is better now).
Oh meant to say - it depends on what pickups are in there beforehand. If you swap one type of high end paf type pickup for another high end paf it may not be a big difference. But stock pickups to handmade customs is a huge difference And one thing Glyn said to me was no one ever talks about how new pickups feel different. He’s a Jedi, if you don’t know his pickups, check him out. All hand made here in Nz by one guy and he knows all there is to know. All custom
Don’t care what anyone says. You’re all wrong to some extent, and right in another. People just want to be right and seem knowledgeable. Who cares if you wouldn’t pay that much for a pickup! Go cry about it somewhere else
Many claim pickups are the only thing that maters in guitar tone. I think there are many factors actually. Many are subtle maybe, but still contribute. Does his hollow body sound different from a solid body?
Are the Ron Ellis pickups wax potted? unpotted pups are a bit clearer. also same magnets? there are several variables in pups. I did hear less compression in the RE pups. Enjoy!
It seems to me from my experience that the sound of a guitar is cumulative. Everything has a small impact. The amp and speaker being the biggest. I have guitars that sound great with certain amps and not so good with others. And when I swapped my first speaker, I realized that was the biggest change I could make.
People using impulse responses and PCs. No pickup upgrade is worth it. Imo all the digital stuff sounds horrid anyway . But pickups do make a huge difference to me on a tube amp . And in person . Hard to tell on any video
