correct Sir, but in another video with a computer model it makes the same claim about a worm gear driving another gear but can't be driven by it.....except that in the example as the axles turns they drive the worm gear that said can't be driven. Fist off, how does the R position in the transmission makes the vehicle back up if he just turned both shafts , and then , how can you use the Engine Breaking on a hill if there isn't any drag from the pinion. I think the engineers need to meet with a English teacher to learn how the speak top the common person and avoid the genius-speak and Industry lexicon. I can't a Company selling very many TV's if they over load the consumers with details when it's better to explain Why and How the TV works .
@@felixbaum2180 similar scenario as a Detroit locker. The driven wheel is always the inside wheel , being the slower moving of the two . If the inside looses traction , both wheels lock . Yet with a torsen differential you have a functional diff
I heard of torsen-style diffs like 20 years ago and it wasn't until I built this that it actually made sense. Real ones use parallel helical gears rather than worm gears. I can't do that with LEGO for lack of helicals, but the general mode of operation is very similar. I'm glad you found it useful.
To anyone who is wondering why this works with one wheel in the air but a real Torsen won't: This is effectively a Torsen with an Infinite Torque Bias Ratio since the angle of the worm wheel and worm gear won't let the wheel turn the gear. That is why when both tires are off the ground in the video he must manually turn both wheels in opposite directions whereas with the open differential he could just turn one wheel and the other would spin in the opposite direction Torque loss in a Torsen would be something like 71% (2.5:1 TBR) but here it is 100%. What this means is that under anything other than straight line driving, only one wheel is getting power (the slower wheel) where in a true Torsen the torque split would be 71:29 (for TBR of 2.5:1) Good demonstration, but still leaves questions. Hopefully this clears some of them up.
Thanks. So much contradictory info on this subject on the net. Some say Torsen will lock if one wheel looses traction, other say it behaves lick an open diff.
I'd seen other videos but they used 3d models of an actual torsen and while I saw that it worked, I couldn't figure out why. Your model helped me see how they actually work.
There must be a flaw in your torsen system at 2:06 because torsen differential will not transfer torque to the wheel with grip if the other is in the air.There must be a little resistant inorder to transfer it.Something is missing .... or it's just the scale model. BTW, excellent vid ;)
Torsen has gone though some variations throughout the years. A torsen can be designed to work just like the video, or you can reduce the torque biasing by changing how the gears are cut. The earlier versions had much more bias and could transfer more power to one tire, but they were weaker. Later versions reduce the bias increasing strength at the expense of some traction.
EXACTLY! A pinion can not turn a worm! But I m quit sure that you need a small resistance on skidding wheel to apply torque to the other wheel. BUT, this is the simple system. Five star video.
@suprakilzz26 -- a torsen is a type of locker. There are others made with one-way clutches on both wheels, and true torsens (which mine isn't exactly) use directly meshing helical gears with side-loading to get the same behavior mine shows with only two gears, rather than five.
From TorSen "As mentioned above, the Torsen differential is a torque multiplier. The Torsen requires some type of resistance or friction in the system to function properly. A wheel in the air provides zero torque or friction on the system and as the Torsen multiplies the available torque, zero, by its TBR, the end result is still zero. In response to this, we developed the Torsen T-2R with pre-load to combat those wheel in the air situations. " You think TorSen are confused too?
I think you are confusing what can be done with the current models vs. what could be manufactured based on the principles of how the Torsen functions. As it is, Torsen comes in 3 variations right now. Additionally, there is really very little reason to manufacture them with such an extreme gear cut because you can "lock" current models by simply applying some brake pressure. (see Hummer H1's for reference)
So I know there are torque things going on and people are saying it won't work with one wheel in the air. The fact is, if there is more force from the engine than anything else, it will lock, period. If it doesn't, then your Torsen is either: not a Torsen and you were scammed, is broken in some way, or for some reason can't handle the awesome power of your engine. . The Spur gears cannot spin the worm gears, so they will stay stationary and both wheels will spinnig the same way and speed.
i think u r wrong. as long as power is transfered from the engine, the torsen will transfer torque to the wheel with most grip. thats why torsen is such an excellent type of lsd diff
so torsen difffs are the best choice to install in an atv that is, for most part,to be driven on muddy or loose gravely terrain?...how much heavier is it as compared to the open diff for same size?
A TorSen CANNOT be made to work with one wheel in the air unless an additional clutch is fitted, so now it isn't just a TorSen, it's a TorSen/cluch LSD. It's all to do with torque multiplication, zero torque times anything, is zero! Torsen's page has all the info for you.
smellsof bikes, Thanks for the great video on how these amazing differentials work. I'd tried many times to understand them too. I too got it only after I made one out of LEGOs. I patterned mine on one a teenager had on the inter-net. I can't figure out how Mr. Gleason figured it out in his head when he came up w/ the idea. I bet he tested concept with standard worm & pinions arranged like the LEGO versions. The story about how he overcame the challenges in making the gears is amazing too.
so if you turn for example to the left and the corner is very long you will break mechanism becouse one wheel will turn faster than the other it means if you turn one wheel in one direction and second wheel in another their speed must be the same , if speed would be difrent their will block each other
No, the entire mechanism spins. If you look at the mechanism when it’s not spinning, when you apply different forces the mechanism has one wheel spin backwards relative to another, but then when you let the whole thing spin you can see that that simply results in 2 different speeds, one “spinning backwards” simply translates to one spinning slower than the other when the entire mechanism itself is rotating.
Unfortunately your excellent video has missed one extremely important aspect of a Torque Sensing (TorSEn) diff. A Standard TorSen only works if both wheels feel at least SOME resistance, and WILL NOT work with one wheel in the air (unlike your demonstration).
bit late for answering your question but if the front and rear axles have similar friction under tires the hanbrake turn is almost impossible to do because the handbrake braking will brake front axle too via propshaft in torsen center diff system
Usually it will but the application of just a little brake will turn it into a spool. I've had 4 Jeeps over the years and always added Torsens at some point.
this is not a torsen diff. torsen diff do not lock at all. it is true that torsen diffs use worm gear, but they are impossible to reproduce with current lego worm gears. the reason being that the angle of the worm gear and the angle shaft gears is such that when torque is applied the friction created means the force to drive the wheel and the force to rotate the worm gear is equal (the shallow angle allows the axle gear to drive the worm gear). what you made is a locked diff with a lot of slack.
You know, I watched this video 3 times. The video of torsen differential maybe 5 times in more than 4 years, I still don't get to understand it. I like to, but I just don't. Maybe I need to touch it.
