#1 Orc in World vs #2 Elf in World (Game played on 19-September-2023) Catch me live all days of the week at: / grubby Join my Discord! / discord #Grubby #Games #Strategy #Multiplayer #Competitive
Excellent cast! Really enjoyable content. Would definitely like to see more matchups articulated so well. As someone who used to play Orc the most , this game was pretty painful to watch but also entertaining.
I've always wondered how in such a game, where each unit is unique, it turns out to maintain a good balance. The main thing is not to desecrate the forests. Otherwise, bears with dryads will come out of them, units that are made from the same building have the same upgrades, both are both attack, support, and casters at the same time. If you try to kill them, they will immediately fly to the base, bathe in hot springs and return in a few seconds to continue instilling fear of forest dwellers in you. If you are very successful and have caused damage to a lot of units, don't worry, bears are able to treat any wounds, right in battle, I hope you have captured enough dispells. Well, you understand, take care of nature, otherwise it will come and break your face.
8:10 - if colorful wins I'm gonna uninstall this game That's a huge loss for wc3 community... Final - I'm gonna uninstall, then reinstall... Ahhh, sneaky...
The recent buffs to DH and Keeper are inexplicable because they weren't weak heroes to begin with. The fact that a lot of NE used to use tavern heroes wasn't because their own heroes were weak, but because of meta game.
To be fair. Keeper used to be quite bad. In a meta where bm windwalk worked really well, keeper just didn't get any exp early game. Demon was always good though.
@@MrWowmaster98 it could have been a good thing if we got a regular support and rolling meta. Where abilities for nerfed and buffed periodically. The way it looks now, it is kinda ridiculous.
@@KillmanPit The problem with the philosophy of bringing everything's uptake rate is that it's just counterproductive. Just because something is less used doesn't make it bad - it could be good for fewer situations but it could be extremely good in those. When they went with tavern heroes, that was very well understood as they basically said "we want to make sure overall balance is good by providing you with options", they didn't try to somehow make heroes "equal". The fact that NE was able to use tavern heroes should not have created an impetus to bring their altar heroes up. I have the feeling that the balance has been handed to different people to the point that the balance team now no longer understand the original design principles. They clearly do not understand it better than veteran players.
Hey Grubby, how hard is it to train for multiple races at the pro level? I know Infi has done it, but most pro players don't. It would be so convenient to just be able to switch to Undead or Night Elf if Orc becomes weak.
I remember a trick in custom games to beat illusions. Pretty niche if you are in a 1v1 and they cast illusion. If you you do nothing and let your unit auto-attack it will attack the real hero 80%+. Not sure why it works or occasionally fails.
The Ai explantion makes sense to me. You could use buildings to tank and stop them when th fight is over. Isnt it possible to bind the trigger on any repairs nearby? (A lessson about patience)
i played aaaages ago when i was a child and i never was any good rly. now ive been watching grubby videos for a while and feel like giving it another go. is there a reason why the pros dont play with the new graphics? or is just because they are used to the old stuff? and secondly - would you have any links to rudimentary, easy beginner guides? cheers, big fan
Grubby has videos for beginners and basics on this channel. If you search his videos you will see them. Players still use the old graphics because they are objectively better and far easier to see the units. On bnet you will find players, but will likely lose often at the beginning.
new graphics are awful. bnet ladder has a wide range of skill. I just started ladder about 2 months ago. It is okay, but it is amazing to me when I play vs someone who has like 5k games + and is the same mmr at me with less than 100 games played, I obviously get rolled in those games because of openers/army comps/creep routes/timing- my micro is almost or close to better, but I am low APM lol.
This game is a great highlight on the current state of orc vs night elf. I cannot came up with any matchup in which losing two of your hero while your opponent is trying to expand is not a gg. It wasn't even a long struggle to get back into the game, it was a huge power spike that easily turn back the table with a single fight
Can you (or others are welcome too) explain why Raiders into Bears? Raiders' Siege damage only deals 100% dmg to Bears' Heavy Armor but Bears' Normal damage deals 150% to Raiders' Medium Armor. Seems like a big mismatch. Wouldn't a better strat be to just use grunts+spirit walkers and save money for Taurens who can go toe to toe with bears, deal AOE splash damage once upgraded, AND can be revived by walkers and get more value? Is Ensnare just that good? Even if you catch one the NE will just staff them out before you can kill.
Staff might be the problem. It's a pretty lame item really. You just get to save one of your units for free every fight, even 2+ in a longer fight. Perhaps a cooldown on the staffed unit would be better, where they can still take damage. This would take more skill in timing the staff, and allows the other side the choice to continue attacking it or attacking something else.@@FollowGrubby
I've always wondered - with Orcs always having such a problem with healing, is it really not worth the investment in witch doctors for healing ward? I rarely ever see it in these games.
Healing ward is a tier 3 upgrade. You are forced to commit into a caster that has no dispel, and a heal that only works well outside battle. Meanwhile, Undead has statues which is a tier 2 unit that require no upgrades, human has priest which is a tier 2 unit that can also get a dispel in tier 2, and elf has moon wells plus a strong melee unit that for some reason is also a caster
It's not that good of a caster tbh. It's dmg buff and revjunate that of all the healing spells is the hardest one to micromanage. It's also an expensive cast. Most of us don't run with tier 2 bears because they are expensive, will get killed and rejuvunate aint as flexible as human's priests or UD's statues. Moon wells are nice, but they are stationary. Honestly, a part of me want to trade the moon wells for Healing Salves... or a scroll of healing. We don't have any good mobile healing and that's why Alchemist is sometimes used. @@kevin-7091
I wonder if Grubby could occasionally team-up with Moon and play others, both pros and random guys. It would be epic to watch if they manage to get into sync.
@@danieldaponte1819 Yeah, why do people like to watch curb-stomps? It's not funny, it's not entertaining, and all the people involved feel terrible. The pros feel terrible for doing that to children, and the children feel terrible for losing all their heroes and units in less than a minute while feeling powerless.
Not a pro but how can you expect T2 to beat T3? Why not do a timing raid when the elf is T2 still instead of expanding? What can the elf do against Wyverns and Tauren?
this is a classic colorful game. Too many unexplainable mistakes, but still he could win in the end. Similar cases happened when he plays against human. In this game, orb of venom determines the result. With only 1 orb of venom, lyn has already been very tough to deal with. not mention two. BM is so weak in 1.36, so I am not surprised why many Chinese orc players want to play 1.27 in some Chinese wc platforms.
After the demon and archers kills orc could control the map maybe and could use towers at expo and base.Of course you will lose vs elf if you accept first fight with raiders and spirits vs dryad and bears
Can Grubby influence the Blizzard / Back2Warcraft in adding the ideas for the next patches? You are well-known and respected in the Warcraft 3 community and you have good knowledge of the game's balance situation, so I believe you could make a great contribution to it.
sorry but bears are a t3 unit, and raiders are t2. they most definitely should be winning by a large margin. The advantage of elves lies more in other mechanics, like having moonwells, or the keeper being tough to counter until you have enough dispels.
I feel like grubby rooting for orc against elf, is like me rooting for human agains undead. You like a good story where your race struggle but still manage to win. And if the opponent make BIG mistakes and still win you are like "is this what it takes to win ?"
i think if you want to win vs elf you need to harras wisp at start attack buildings in middle game and not fight with tier 2 raiders spirit vs tier 3 elf drayd and bears go also tier 3
why doesn't orc make a harder T2 timing push with towers before Elf gets all the bears? Orc can't compete with Elf late game so needs to pressure and end early
Actually i've seen Moon counter pulling with a wisp. I don't know the exact mehacnics how he does that but i've seen it when he plays vs happy. Happy would pull the creeps away with an acolyte and moon comes in a with a wisp and and counter pulls them back... probably issuing a repair command on the AoW i guess.
Maybe I dont understand, but Lyn going expo instead of t3 himself seemed like a mistake. I mean, anyone would have a tough time vs t3 bears with t2. I would not want to be against master bears with t2 ud
Wow Lyn gave up even before he had used his mana pot. I really think devour should go faster. Even after a long fight NE can always pick up retreating Kodos, which are still devouring. Even if the Orc TPs he can't really step out of the base witout getting creep jacked. He has to leave his devouring Kodo at the base - that's so annoying. In the beginning of the game Grubby explained the AI abuse with repairing peon, which is global. I couldn't see any building in the orc base which was hit and which was repaired. Or does constructing a new building (voodoo lounge) counts as well?
Hey Grubby, this is a common practice in Dota when you need to pull the enemy creeps in lane so you can kill your range creep and there's no enemy hero in your lane. You just target an enemy hero from across the map. Apply some dota 4k scrub mechanics to your wc3 and you'll be owning wc3 pros in no time xD
The Orc Vs Elf matchup is *absolutely* imbalanced in favor of Elf. Even Lawliet said so. And this is a very, very old problem that goes back to ROC in 2002 that only got worse in TFT. Elf, by *design*, is made to beat Orc. They get ranged units straight out of the gate with better range than HH. Grunts too slow to run away. You arte forced to go raiders for crown control since dryad slow grunts and allows easy kills for Elf heroes. Elf AOW creeps to expand, and Elf still gets free healing from wells while you're forced to spend on heal pots. Any attemp of counter-expansion from Orc is impossible because of Ultravision. Elf magic poerfect to neutralize Orc heroes + extra damage on grtunts which have heavy armor. The rule of thumb is that Orc needs ~250 extra MMR to have 50% chance of winning against Elf. Blizzard has made some attempts to balance this matchup over the years, but the problem is that truly balancing this matchup would require completely redesigning the races, which would break the other 3 matchups for both races. It's hopeless. I hink ha increasing speed of tgrunts so that they can run from archers betteror increasintg the mana pool of shams could help. Chatgintg the heavy armor of grunts would break the other matchups. But even this would only eliminate some of the advantages that Elf has but not all. Like Hitman said on his stream: "It's literally impossible for elf to lose to Orc if the Elf player has a working brtain."quoting verbatim).
Yeah.... I've always kinda understood the argument for NE being the 'easy mode' race, or late game human because late game human support spellcasters are OP AF, but seeing this game and hearing the economics behind it, I definitely agree more now. I know it's not a 100% flawless, foolproof argument, but that massive economic advantage because moonwells is HUGE in a game like WC3.
Night elf is anything but easy. Every tier 1 unit you make when playing NE is an investment into your opponents XP bar. You always have to switch and hope to god your opponent haven't been so aggressive you had to spam archers and hunts in self-defense - because every single one of those are gonna turn to enemy XP when the game goes into mid. Also, I genuinely think if the Orc player had invested in serpent wards instead of hex (don't need it, you have both Wind Walk and Ensnare - hero kills are available) they could've won. NE will always have dryads so playing to their weaknesses is key.
I dont know why no one complaining about ensnare raiders , the only no mana cost ability undispeable which can stunlock your units for ages and catch one by one and kill them
I mean those bears just demolished his raiders. 150% normal -> medium vs 100% siege -> heavy, no contest. Who cares about Ensnare lol, bears be like "I'm not trapped in here with you, you're trapped in here with me!"
Why do you think it is round eye players struggle vs eastern eyed players? I beleive its due to the superior shape of Eastern eyes for viewing screens. If you think about it, the distance to blink on eastern eyes is less than a round eye, thus allowing higher overall screen viewing time vs a round eye. This gives a small advantage to Eastern eyes but noticeable
this expo cost game :) thorns + bear + roar u cant play rider grunt :) , no expo = +4 wyw :) you have some probleme for read this game tbh, orc play bad mid and late game little tips , before break 50, stay sw in base regen mana before the big fight, or its dead pop :) + bm should play 1/1/1 before take crit 2 vs bear :) illuCritVanish :) Lyn play like 2008, no moderne game play, full burst on sh5 , bad game plan! should t3 + panda drunken perma bear ! The game sens said rush panda 3 drunken 2 = 65% miss + / -30% movement speed bear perman whisp cant not dispel link + mana sh+ drunken every 12sec. that game sens need 40k game + 150IQ, ihave it all
@@cooljaedan its à bait dispel ? Look the game, use 4 dryad, 4 whisp in final fight. If u go panda 3 hero, lvl 2 drunken, hé Will switch dry > wyw link If u dispel drunken, u cant not dispel link, mana sh, illusion from bm, drunken is 10sec coulndown . Hex whisp / 1 ensnare, control U dont Have many knowledge for manadge What i said ♡
@@FollowGrubby where i said that ? U miss précision . U speak about balance of game in intro. I speak about how Lyn give the defWin after donation in defLoose . The game plan is take that expo after big donation + sh 5 heal 3, stay t2, 1 bestiary 😀 He play like 2k10game, bad game plan. Lyn game plan is sh 5 before dh 5 . Like à exemple, panda drunken 1,3,5 / pit howl 1,3,5 . Use protective unit for protec that x2 skill, like mass dry, then you dont go destro then i use drunken and howl . Its à exemple how to work with polarisation . U Have the best mécanique ever in game, i Have the best intellect, and its not even close . You dont know Who iaM, but in game u know perfectly Who iam . But we dont care, we are ere only for comment this game . For 15 year i Was the best orc 2v 3v 4v in every ladder, bnet,wc3c,netease. U watchtime some streaming of me when ur offline backInaDa, i have some rapport feed back who watching, you and happy, because i have some other read than you, other game play, but ur are the most decored orc, its true. I use some private streaming for my asia brozzer Who love data . I dont care about compétions of size, i just cam for give my opignon on this game . I said Lyn play bad game plan, bad mid and late game, with bad choice .daSitSir Take care of urself, u did amazing job for wc3Lovers . Dont take it personaly, no one care . Before talk ere about this game, i talk with interessed I give him the exact feedback, not the same as i said there tbh . This is private. There is public and fun . Exemple of iNspiratioN. Soz my English poorlybad (-_(-_-)_-). SeeYiah (f) love that Devotion
