10 Development Changes In Andaron Saga 

Do you agree or disagree with some of these changes? 💾 Download Station: discord.gg/zpNeXJJ 🎮 Andaron Saga Discord: discord.gg/mq4aneNp3K

Another fun fact, Mangs was able to beat the original chapter 7.

The most important change we made in development, FAT THEODOR was replaced with the CHAD THEO that we have today.

I am 100% certain that if Chapter 29's original idea was implemented, someone would have found a way to survive infinitely. After some of the AW challenges nothing's off the table for them!

I would have loved this video but I stopped caring about fire emblem since my favorite egg head told me to! Thanks Mangs!

It wasn't just Chapter 12's Ending that needed a rework, we actually sat down and reworked a lot of things involving chapters 10-13 toward the last 8 months of development. Originally, when I joined the development team, Mortimer was supposed to fight alongside Baud against Randall, but I said that would spoil the reveal. So we removed him. But then later on, I realized it actually was a GOOD idea to have him there, so we re-added him. And then there was all the stuff involving his original speech in the prison... Mangs, you should release a video talking about those chapters before we did the big rework of them. I'm sure there's still a rom version with them somewhere!

Having made a small hack myself, I empathized a little TOO hard with Hailey's "this animation looks SICK, time to redesign everything so I can put it in."

Another unmentioned change was that the initially longer name was shortened by dropping the "Baudimon" from it.

My least favorite change I have to cry about whenever possible: - Sigrid used to be a very reliable choice for a 1v1 in chapter 18 as long as she had enough speed to not get doubled (the boss only got a brave weapon late in development) Some others that didn't feature in the video: - Chapter 16 and 23 both got major redesigns. While the map layout didn't change too much in Chapter 5, it used to be a lot more annoying in a number of way:, no convoy access, Zak only showed up in the no Dawncaller route, less vision, you had to visit all 3 stairwells, all with the same or even higher amount of enemies. - The final battle against Mortimer used to be a big RNG fest since he got more and more skills with each respawn, the final phase on Lunatic included resolve and foresight. - Estelle, Elmer and Emilia also could have been mentioned as late additions, they were added after Khepri/John/Madeline were already established.

8:57 we need a gameplay of og ch.7

Holy shit i remember watching the Grenadier anime at a grill party with my uncles. Actually was pretty fun despite being pretty cheesy. Some interesting things that come to mind: * I was actually the person who let Klok know that mangs was looking for a writer for Andaron Saga. I'm pretty sure this was before i even became acquainted with mangs myself or started beta testing for Andaron Saga. I still recall Klok asking me for my opinion on the proposed ending change, without giving away too many details. In retrospect this is kinda funny, because i don't think anyone fought as much over story/writing related things during the beta testing as me and Klok. Despite the many differences, we certainly couldn't have done it without him, and i've very glad i ended up telling him to get in contact all those, at this point, years ago. * I remember randomly stumbling across Theodor's old portrait in the game files while in VC with PH, and we both had a great laugh at "Fat Theo". It became a running gag of sorts for a while. * There were a lot of supports which ended up having to be scrapped last minute (and i mean like, a day or two before release), due to rom space limitations. It was a bit of a shame since everyone worked really hard on writing them before the release date hits. I recall liking the Berit/Samuel support so much gameplay wise, that i actually wrote it while on the trainride home from visiting Nohrianguy in Switzerland. It's a shame they had to be scrapped, but there wasn't really another choice. I really hope they'll make it into the rom rework PH will eventually do. * There was a good while where the generic Timaet Soldiers didn't have a proper portrait. So someone, and i don't even know who it was, made the barechested Mangs meme portrait the placeholder. Needless to say it caused quite a few laughs. * Natalie's personal skill used to be paragon, which funnily enough made her snowball so incredibly hard that she could be level 20 promoted by chapter 10 or so. It was only changed pretty late into development, in my opinion, for the better. * Andaron Saga didn't even have obtainable skills until like halfway through development, if not further back. You only had personal skills you started out with. I remember not being a fan of this change at first, but it actually ended up being implemented very well, and was an overall positive addition. The eternal seals weren't a thing either. I also very fondly remember sitting in voice calls together with the dev and beta testing team for hours on end, sometimes as long as 6AM in the morning, testing stuff, chilling, giving feedback, working on stuff. This project took a lot of hours of active work from many people, but it was also a fun ride, and a great learning experience. We managed to make an, in my opinion atleast, phenomenal FE Project, that feels like it could be a genuine full official game. So i wanna once more offer a huge round of respect and thanks for everyone involved. Anderson Sagar 2 when???

In my eyes, Kephri should have been the dancer. Being Darius' wife and the original dancer being a rather bland and random character, I feel like it would have been fitting. With most of the other changes I think the game would've benefitted from some more development time (Aylanda's death, Jakka's development, Caroline's character...), but I feel like that's just a default thing to say. Even if you took more development time, new problems and changes would've arised that lead to the same critique of "needed more development time", so I guess it's understandable to just call it a day at some point.

Man, I needed more Andaron Saga content. You and Klok gotta keep me going until Rebellion Saga comes out! (Even Nihil’s five-hour interview with Klok isn’t enough.)

That fact that ch.7 was originally much harder is pretty wild 😅

That chapter 29 ending would've been a mistake, but at the same time it would've been so cool.

PH's sense of game design really is just built different. Chapter 7 would have ended me lol

Man Baudimon (and jakka)’s portrait was so cursed.

Old Theodor isnt real,he cant hurt u Old Theodor: Jesus christ he looked like a psycho

My biggest point of contention here is that take on Grenadier. Wonderful show for wonderful people.

I for one think that you should make the "impossible" map into a separate stage by itself and see how other people attempt to stall it out infinitely And while you're at it the chapter 7 one too

Thank god for the team, all of the changes sounded extremely integral to the quality of the game. Just goes to show that drafts and changes, even big ones, can be incredibly important before declaring something finished. The most important changes in the video are definitely the ending, Mortimer, Aylanda, Brianna, Jesse and Nat because those things are some of the best aspects in the game as we received it. And want to stress that in this day and age an ending where 'everyone dies' feels cliche, lazy, and perhaps even a bit cringe.. the ending and narrative that we ended up getting is incredible, one of the best I seen in any strategy game.

The idea of setting Andaron Saga 2 after chapter 29 sounded interesting even if it doesn’t seem like a good ending for the game itself.

I was the only one supporting the original ending, but democracy is cringe.

Chapter 29 for me is by far the most terrifying. Everytime I play that chapter I am very very VERY careful so that I could not lose a unit, even though I have beaten it numerous times now, it still makes me scared (I think Hard mode chapter 29 gave me PTSD). Also changing that chapter is a good call too as me as a player agreed with your team Mangs, the ending feels hollow, glad you also included a different cliffhanger that is chapter 31x.

The solution to the aylanda thing: make her force deployed and have her be a game over and get captured in her death quote.

Happy they had so much thought on Hailey's character and appearance, she's one of my favorite character just by how cool she looks and how much she helps in the hell that is her debut character

I remember seeing that Jakka portrait but how the hell did I miss beta Mortimer? Bro doesn't even have ears.

I think you did a sensible and good pivot in all of these instances, it's quite nice to see that you were open to changing major aspects of the game to serve the narrative. Aylanda's speech towards Mortimer did feel significant but also surprising given that she was gone for a long time in the player's conscience by that point, I can definitely see the difficulty in fitting it in organically, I imagine it would be tough to defer that to another character given the chaotic nature of character deaths on top of it too. I'm glad you revised difficult chapters such as Chapter 7, it's easy for a romhack team to cater to a more hardcore basis given that they know FF more deeply, so I appreciate the balanced approach in giving a good challenge while trying to retain the idea that most people, even new, who pay attention can reasonably play through it too.

Why is beta baudimon looking at the fourth wall, who's he looking at, the scrapped fe7 tactician?

A playable femal centaur class definitly lacked in the game, the concept was very cool

Helga better than aylanda change my mind egg.

I really like the idea of the original ending. Gives me some genealogy vibes. You should patch it in to where if you lose, you get that ending, and the new ending is more of a what if scenario.

Old Jesse seems to be a better character than the new one who is just a refference to Breaking Bad.

Gotta say, my favorite changes are what you did to Mortimer and Brianna. The Mortimer change ive heard on other comment section from Klok and other people, the Brianna change i only found out now. Gotta say tho, quite the number of people actually said old Mort was leagues better, which made me scratch my head. In my opinion, the change made Mort from a one-note trope character that you can see from a mile away what the character does, will do, and their evilness, into a way more intricate and involved character that he is now, and that applies to Brianna. Can imagine me lowering my score for this game a hefty amount if those characters stayed the way they were. Also Jesse And Natalie were kino changes too. Their eyes widening when they meet Alvaro in the dungeon was definitely deservingly subversive.

While I agree with most of the changes. (Appart for maybe the chap.29 bad ending, but I Can see why the majority would hate that ending). I must Say the lack of Shadowlord, ingame transactions, cringy-op-self insert and, of course, 30 minute unskipable sex scene really lower down my rating of this rom tbh....

Really insightful video Mangs, thanks for making it and giving us a look at how things were behind the scenes. Personally as a fellow Starcraft fan I would have loved to see the OG ending play out. Maybe I'm a sucker for Bad Endings in games, but I for sure felt chapter 29 was supposed to be the end and was honestly expecting it to be impossible. Really looking forward to Rebellion Saga!

Was Baudimon modeled after the Giga chad meme face? Because that's what he makes me think of every time

Me: Is that a new Final Rom update? Friend: No, just a log with the changes during development in Baudimon Andaron Saga.

As grimdark as that original ending was for chapter 29, i kno I would be genuinely curious had that been kept. It was definitely a smart move to change into a tough defense map. If you ever think about using that idea again, where only a handful of heroes flee to fight another day while the majority give their lives to a loosing battle, then I say go for it. Even if it feels depressing, sometimes those types of stories can work and make you grateful for the time you had. Subjective sure, but I don't know any other romhack that has to balls to kill of most of the cast.

Should have kept the original title screen...just kidding but it was a good laugh

WE needed more Caroline!!!! i loved in this explanation it was planned but i think it would have transpired alot more feelings and empathy i would have loved how the story unfolded!! maybe in the next hack we will get more?!? :)

I still haven't completed the game. Can't beat Against All Odds without losing units, and it's been half a year. Almost wanna start a whole new run where I don't miss out on Helga's Galeforce. Drives me nuts.

I don't know if you mentioned it, but Jaheira was also less lizard like in her beta portrait.

Tbh I kinda prefer the original Mortimer. The endgame reveal kinda just threw me off. I liked the idea of the guy everyone was soft on and never suspected, later abusing everyone's guard being down and usurping power for himself, with that being his main goal.

Interesting... I think most, if not probably all, of these changes were for the best. Thanks for the video Mangs, its fascinating to get a more behind-the-scenes look at this game, I hope you release more of these kinds of videos. This was great. It seems the game would have been a lot more heavyhanded and brutal in the original version. However, this video also help explain most of my (few) criticisms of the game, as nearly all of them were apparently changed from something else to begin with and weren't the original vision, so it would've taken a lot more effort to make them actually properly fleshed out and fit into the narrative that was originally made for the game, they were more (good) grafted branches unto the original tree, but still grafted branches. Aylanda's role being significantly diminished... I can see how that came at the end of the game. I wonder if time and space constraints prevented things further from developing on that end, or if it was just too much already. It was frustrating to see her condition deteriorate, and yet Jakka almost seeming to ignore it. Mortimer's goals and disposition felt somewhat confusing to me at the end, but this explains partially why that's the case (though I think I vastly prefer that to the more simple character he was originally supposed to be, it was a good decision to change). I felt almost everything "resolved" itself too conveniently and quickly in chapter 29, and it turns out that at least part of that can be attributed towards it being originally intended as the ending chapter. I did not expect chapter 29 to be inspired by Into Utter Darkness, that's fascinating. Honestly the Protoss missions of SC2: WoL was one of the highlights of the game imo (and that game had a lot of great missions), very interesting. While I think the ending change decision was probably for the best, its also a *very* interesting choice for the original story ending that you had in mind. I think that one was probably the most "subjective" of these changes, in that I think the original plan theoretically could've worked very well if handled properly in 2, but like they said, that causes a lot of issues and the lack of feeling of reward could've been brutal on the players and left a bad taste in the mouth. Ironically though that would have made it somewhat similar to FE4 in yet another way though lol. I've rarely seen a game truly end on a cliffhanger and finish properly in a sequel like that. However, one of the best games (really it was a trilogy/set of 2 games + 1 finale) I've ever played did end up doing something... not exactly the same, but it did end the first game on a *major* cliffhanger. I can't help but wonder what Andaron Saga 2 might've looked like as a result if you had gone through with that. I think the change was correct in the end, but I can't help but wonder what could've been, or maybe a different way for it to work instead of the all or nothing approach. The original sounded pretty extreme. I will say... I still disagree with what happened with Helga at the end, I didn't see that fully addressed in the video but it was frustrating that Jakka basically ignored/broke his promise to at least 2, maybe 3 (if Baudimon is included) important people to him and the story, especially if you took the romance route with him and her like I did. I think Jesse's change... was probably for the worse if I'm being honest (just might be my opinion), but its hard to say, maybe its hard not to see him as a meme because lol breaking bad reference drug addict. Having him be someone sketchy, serious, and more concerning to the group, especially someone who joined at one of the most tenuous parts of the game would've been interesting, at least based on the description in this video. Hailey's change was probably for the worse too, lol, though I agree that the marksman animations were *sick* and were a good choice to be used, but I think I'd have preferred that personality you originally had in mind for her instead and kept the marksman animations. The portrait... hard to say which was better if I'm being honest. The chapter 12 change was for the best, it sounds like a large oversight in the original version. Chapter 7 was already brutal on release lol, thanks for having it changed lol. The 4 characters being added late, I'm not *too* surprised about at all lol. Jakka's change was good imo, *especially* considering how dark the game could've been originally. Even as is, the game is plenty dark. He's a very likable protagonist and the humor helps take some of the edge off all the darkness and death in this game. I thought it had plenty of tragedy already without Jakka being humorless lol, but I digress. I have no real opinion on Caroline tbh, but what I saw in the game with regards to their romance and backstory didn't particularly impress me, but that's my opinion. Overall, I'm glad for most of these changes. Its a good thing that Andaron Saga went through such a rigorous screening and development in terms of helping the final product be great.

Me wanting to see Chapter 29 become another Defense Challenge similar to Last Hope. But for this one, every chara is maxed out, and maybe a good convoy and store option too.

Wait if Caroline was originally supposed to be Jakka’s canonical love interest, who is it currently?

As a writer by hobby myself, your comments on the knock-on effects of small writing changes in a story really resonated with me. It's easy to look at writing on the outside and criticize it, only to realize just how easy those traps are to fall into. That doesn't make them any less worthy of criticism, but it definitely provides some perspective. If you're curious, feel free to click the read more in my comment where I've pointed out another example of one such small shift and its consequences that we see in the current build of Andaron Saga. Beware of spoilers of course! Jesse & Natalie's relation to House Flameguard actually messes with Dawncaller, which is a weapon supposedly able to be wielded by the royal family of Andaron, as well as House Lightbringer. Jesse and Natalie run into a gameplay-story integration issue along with Isabelle, as for the majority of the game's story House Flameguard is the ruling house of Andaron, and yet Isabelle of House Steel can use Dawncaller, but not Jesse or Natalie. The story establishes this rule on Dawncaller's usage in a conversation with Samuel in Chapter 2x, but fails to be consistent with it. The solution to this conundrum is to give the player two separate Dawncaller items over the course of the game. One as a weapon locked to the Lightbringers and members of House Steel, which is taken from the player after chapter 12's events as per usual. While Dawn joins with a Dawncaller that is linked the lightbringers and members of House Flameguard, which the player can then use for the rest of the game. For all intents and purposes the player wouldn't know they got a different sword in chapter 14, just that who can use it has changed.

Like someone else mentioned, maybe making original Ch7 into an Impossible Challenge video would be really fun.

You and your team made by far the best hack out there. Absolutely incredible, huge respect.

Despite the things many people say about this hack and how the humor and dialogue often leave a lot to be desired it is still a great game. It can be enjoyable on every difficulty and the characters are almost all likable and there can be valid arguments to call any single of of them your favorite. Obviously there are a few things that could have been done better and Mangs just mentioned a couple in this video but at the end of the day this is a fan project. And it is a damn good one. But fuck that stupid tomb on lunatic.

Mangs, are we gonna get your wedding GBA style just like Baudimon and Alayna's if possible? 🐲🙏

its a great game. the only thing that lowers and it stops me and my friends from replaying it is the op bosses and enemies that force u to play at a certain pace (super fast anti turtle that just scream "fan game"). it needed some serious balancing.

Man Mortimer got a giant glow up

Mortimer’s change to a more sympathetic tragic hero is perhaps the best change of them all

I can't even imagine the nightmare it would be to kill leonora and survive the wyvern squad in the original version

ORDER BE BRAVE

I'm happy to see they were all great improvements. If someone out wasn't played it yet I invite them to do so, it's a fantastic game.

It's so cool to see how and why things changed.

I would like a project with character receiving skills scrolls when they lvl. Easy way meaning, imagine if you can take awakening/Fates skills from they owner and give them to another character like Radiant Dawn, even the useless party member is worth training for his skill.

Dude, just remove Tomb of Horrors from the game and Andaron Saga will become the best FE hack EVER, literally

thats a cool what if, with Jakka as oifey and the kids and such.

The worst change was removing the baudimon jakka gay sex scene

Interesting ! I like Haily's development, and I the Brianna change is kinda like Ishtar ? After all the hack is a lot inspired by fe4... But don't worry, Morty is still unsympathetic and still going on a pike at endgame :clueless:

The one thing i would change is you and your team working on a sequel rather than a prequel 😂. I want to know about amon and mortys child. Even tho seeing young sam is cool i already know he ends up betraying baud so watching them fight together isnt all that appealing to me. I trust you guys know what youre doing tho and its gonna be fun regardless

9:15 Release the Snymangs cut!

Dang This Is Cool To Know And Chapter 7 Seems Like A Nightmare Also At 10:30 If Ya Don't Mind Who Is Jakkas Canonical Love Interest Now Or Canon Pairing I Just Wanna Know Cause I Am Curious(Sorry If This Has Been Asked Before)

Thank god for the Jakka rewrite. OG Jakka sounds abysmal. Great video!

Lillinette’s beta portrait looks like something from the 80s 😂 I imagine a scene where the characters break the fourth wall - pointing out how Lillinette used to look. Mortimer’s beta picture screams, “Evil!” Caroline helping Jakka get over Baudimon’s loss would have been a boon to the story, but I understand that Andaron Saga had too much going on already. Who knows? Maybe Klok can include more Caroline material in New Dawn, at least in the Gaiden chapters. Caroline was one of the best-designed units in AS. When I saw Caroline’s portrait in Rebellion Saga, I felt so emotional because I love her so much lol I’m glad Chapter 7 was nerfed. Killing Leonora and her death squad is difficult enough, even on Normal. (On Normal, my blasted Berit almost died against Leonora’s army.) As for the original ending, I think most people would only like it if there was a sequel in the works. Something so dreadful only feels fulfilling if there’s a new generation, preferably children of the fallen who inherit their parents’ skills and weapons. Without a sequel, killing off most of Jakka and company would have felt hollow. So yeah, good change!

Very interesting video. As someone who never played the andaron saga beta, how was the original scalies above? From the video I get it was way too brutal, but was it at least brutal in a fun way? Or was it brutal as well as unfun? Also, no joke, I would've loved if you kept the original idea of chapter 29, but maybe with a twist where you can actually decide if you want to leave with the kids or just put all one's eggs (haha funny) in one basket and fight your way through a brutal rest of chapter 29 and beat mortimer right then and there.

JUSTICE FOR BETA JAKKA

It would have been interesting to see an ending where everyone dies in the last battle. I mean, we already lost a highly charismatic main character. What gives a few more deaths? lol I think a "What if" romhack would be kind of cool, where we get to play the original version of that mission, and get to see a glimpse of how the story would have developed in the potential sequel. Like a 3-4 chapters hack.

I honestly wish we got the floofy-haired Lillinette, albeit with some mild adjustments to be less jank looking

I liked more the femenine Haley portrait.

Man, I actually like the sound of the original ending. But waiting another 3+ years for the sequel does sound quite rough

Andaron saga seems like a pretty good game! Gotta try it out sometime.

I dont know if it was just my luck or what, but i didn't find chapter 7 ( the one in the final game )all that difficult, actually I remember starting it and thinking it was gonna be hell with all those enemies, but i think i got a really good enemy phase turn that cleared a ton of the map When i finished it, i even thought "it was just that?" and regreted not trying to fight Eleonora ( i think thats her name )

This is soo cool

Knowing that info about Jakka and Caroline is so upsetting cause I always found Jakka to be a boring protagonist and Caroline would have helped so much in that regard

Does the 30% strenght growth Thea count as removed content?

Wish I could get this on the official mobile app I would shell out $20 -$30 For a good fe style tactics game on my phone

I thought that Jaheira/Aisha were meant to be Jakka's cannonical couple... (Eveb though I still like Victoria, don't mind me)

Baudimon Andoron Saga!

As for someone who trying to make a rom hack, I have no idea to update or do any alter changes to the rom version. Any advice from anyone?

I actually liked Baudimon's beta portrait rather than the original one.

Nah, Caroline doesnt deserve Jakka.

Baudimon Andaron Saga.

BANGS, UPLOAD THE WEDDING VIDEO ALREADY.

Nice

Hope next game can have a lot less meme talk which breaks immersion in a serious medieval fantasy game.

Yes BTS content

Neferpitou.

So, I couldn’t figure out how to get this on my ios. The myboy wouldn’t download and I couldn’t find the game in your discord. I’m a fossil, I know. Still, if you could somehow sell this, I would be more than happy to shell out up to $30 bucks for this. I’m loving the story, but really want to experience it for myself. Thanks for all the help regardless.

How do you get jeese I dont think I ran into him in the game, Also will we ever here from the lord of lances again ,or is his tale mostly over.

Yoooo beta content let's gooo

#RELEASE-THE-OG-CHAPTER-7 AND MAKE A DRAFT RACE FOR IT

Sorry but does anyone have problems with the game when playing with ez flash like me? When I start the game, it creates a slot to save Chapter 1.. but when I play many chapters later, and save them.. When I restart the game again, it's still chapter 1. I don't know What should I do but most people have the same problem as me but still don't have a solution...

Every change was good except for Hailey. I think the old one was better. Give her back Mangs.

Can I get beta chapter 7 playable sometime

I cheated on this game and bad all the weapons skills and promotions i cheesed it