What gets me about the “[wrestler] should quit WWE and go elsewhere” thing aside from the financial consideration is, people make personal connections when they’ve put years in at a company. When Kevin Owens was interviewed after re-signing a couple years back, he effectively said “Yeah I have a lot of friends in AEW, but I’ve been in WWE for a long time and I have a lot of friends here too.” He also admitted they offered him a giant pile of money to stick around, but if they didn’t think he was worth it they wouldn’t have given him a massive pay raise. I would have to be incredibly unhappy somewhere to walk away from people I love AND a huge payday.
@@tylerdurden788 I don’t know about “great” since the wrestlers are still independent contractors and have to provide their own health insurance, but you’re right that things have improved since the whole Punk situation. I’ve also noticed that since TKO took over and ousted Vince, wrestlers are getting more time off to rest and recover even if they’re not dealing with injuries. I’m sure that’s Hunter’s influence, dude’s got an insane work ethic but he understands a healthy wrestler is a happy wrestler, and a happy wrestler is a good performer. And on TKO’s side guys like Nick Khan are serious businessmen, they understand their talent is an investment with long-term earning potential and want to protect that.
to add to that it's actually rare that a performer changes companies and end up in a better spot. Yea some do but most stay on the same level or move down the card.
I’d like to add another to the list that I’ve seen a lot recently, the “they deserve it” argument. I find a lot of people clamouring for belts to be put on certain guys not because of storyline reasons or booking reasons, but simply because they’ve done something arbitrary like wrestle a good match or stay in the company long enough so that they have now “earned” something. I see this a lot, especially with older wrestlers, as people say they deserve one more run with the belt whilst ignoring the fact that it wouldn’t make sense at the time and the fact that some of them just can’t do it as well anymore.
A lot of the internet discourse boils down to people acting like kayfabe has been dead for years while simultanously being completely immersed in said kayfabe and thinking within the confines of the "story" as if it's all real. Just because people think they know a thing or two after being fed the con (which in the end wrestling is tbh) doesn't mean they actually know how it works.
Great video Dave,most of these points could have been in a video called”ten things you could avoid doing in life to be a better, happier person”and not even applied to wrestling
@@MangyStray This could be a series of self-help shorts using wrestling as a way to describe methods of improvement. If you're reading this, DKW, I genuinely think that would a good idea.
The criticism I find most annoying is the overuse of the term 'bury/buried/burial' A fan favorite starts winning a lot of matches, they go "Oh, look, he's burying everybody," but then he loses ONE match and those same people go "I can't believe they buried him"
Yeah I think nostalgia and "winking at the camera" Easter eggs excessively has hurt wrestling severely. Also great point about the 80's WWE and WCW scene were pretty PG (that actually meant something back then as there was a maturity difference between G and PG as opposed too today) yet very successful
@@HostWithTheMost Yeah that's what I'm saying wrestling has way over relied on it. Like why is there another documentary about a company that folded in 2001 in 20024? or look AE reference just tired of it
Yeah one of them guys to hate PG wrestling then I think about it the change in the times the modern day is good reason and bad to hate and like how it is these days.
I don’t feel like fans dislike PG wrestling, it has more to do with the way the product is presented or how the audience is treated. A PG product can be PG without it being “childish”, people want wrestling to be treated like something that’s serious and has nuance (which is 100% possible without a TV-14 rating). Keep in mind that the same thing can happen with an overly edgy product, shock value can easily overtake quality (a good example are the midcard stories of the attitude era, the main event was amazing, but anything below that was just shock value). Another good example, I think he’s amazing but does Jon Moxley’s excessive bleeding ever serve a point?
My one issue with the idea of "obscure" references in wrestling is that it leads to something that major companies do that I have a problem with. So many other television shows reward people for watching and actually being interested and engaged in the show, and yet the wrestling business hates it. A show in its seventh season can callback to something its first season, and you won't see people saying "NOBODY CARES ABOUT THAT.", but why wrestling? There has to be a line between "Treat the show like everybody's first episode" and "Don't treat the audience like they're five year olds. A big one that bugs me is when people use the word "wrestling" when they really mean the in-ring action, and "entertainment" for everything else. They both play a part in a successful professional wrestling product. You need both.
I do think you raise a good point. I would say the difference is that usually for a TV show you only have to go back like 6 years to a show that you watched. Where most of the offending references in wrestling require going back longer than that and require you watching a match from another country or one that wasn't made available widespread. And more importantly as I said in the video, references do not make for good storytelling. In shows, it might be a throwaway throwback that if you don't catch it, it doesn't matter. If it is plot specific, they will usually give you a reminder of what it is. With wrestling I've had fans defend complete no selling by claiming it's really fighting spirit, since he already took the move 15 years ago in the Tokyo dome giving him immunity to it. I've had fans completely fabricate nonsense that if it was canon should have been explained in the program itself. And worse is the fanfics I have to hear that are so smothered with apophenia that you need a cork board with red string to follow any of it. Only to have those fans claim that it's brilliant. References have to serve a function to the plot and they do not negate the storytellers responsibility of informing the audience.
My IWC complaint is when fantasy bookers take two wrestlers who’s only thing in common is a slightly SLIGHTLY similar gimmick and say how they should feud or be a tag team. Never give them the pen fr
I think the "They need to turn heel!" proclamation (which I'm absolutely guilty of) is a result of accidental programming by Vince McMahon. During the PG Era, whenever someone would get popular (Cena and Shaemus are the two that immediately come to my mind), they would turn face and also completely remove everything that made them popular in the first place: normally to make way for poopy jokes. I didn't want Cena to turn heel necessarily, I wanted some of the edge he had that made him popular in the first place. There was a rap he did about Brock Lesnar that was something along the lines of: "Master make me big, give no brains." and I still remember it all these years later. That's not even risque! It would still fit in PG.
Every time someone brings up the whole "PG isn't goooood" thing I always remind them that NXT from 2014 to 2020 was some of the best wrestling product in recent memory and it was PG. Hell, WCW in 1996-1998, it's hottest years, was PG.
I really hate the "entertainment vs wrestling" nonsense people push. Pro wrestling is the totality of ring work, character, entrance and promos. The experience comes together with all of those things. The idea that you have your artsy pro wrestling stuff as opposed to "entertainment " is nonsensical. Another thing i hate is the "all heat is heat" argument. It really is not. The whole point of heel heat is that your paying a wrestler to watch him get his ass beat. When people booed baron corbin, they didn't wanna see him getting beat. They wanted to see him get the fuck off the television. Which makes the additional point which is that wrestlers who are great characters NEED ring work that compliments it. Austin's offence is one of the best in the business. Rock in his prime is one of the best sellers in the business.
Eh...The Rock was one of the worst sellers out there. He oversold things ludicrously. Not to HBK levels, yet the way The Rock would sell a Stunner was dreadful. I always said that the Attitude Era was the beginning of the end for wrestling in the Anglosphere. I know that people point to the huge WrestleMania crowds each year, but so what? Country and western concerts draw massive crowds, yet they're still a niche. 99.9 per cent of people are oblivious to what's happening in wrestling. People hear "wrestling" and ask: "Is that crap still on television? Whatever happened to Hulk Hogan?" People who rant and rave about Rhea Ripley being a possible Hollywood Action Star (hey, Corny!) are hilariously out of touch. Back in the old days, everybody knew Gorgeous George and Killer Kowalski. Nobody gives a shit about Roman Rings and Dolph Zigzag. Going on a different road from your original comment, yet these things need to be said.
@markv1274 the rock was not a bad seller. A bad bumper maybe. Selling isn't the same as taking bumps. Rock is very good at expressions of pain. Secondly, wrestling downfall was inevitable. Once the kayfabe is broken and it would ne broken sooner or later, it's interest will be limited to a particular crowd. Not to mention the rise of MMA. No body would want to see some pretend tough guys acting like tough guys with their shorts, when you can see real competitors fighting. If UFC was peaking around the time of hulkamania, there wouldn't be a hulkamania. If people could watch fedor emilianenko and mirko cro cop on live television during the attitude era, it wouldn't be that big. Wrestling being a niche is a historical inevitability. Kayfabe wouldn't survive a day in tye modern social media. If anything, all of these things should be the reason why new wrestlers like roman or Cody or stars like John cena should be credited higher than gorgeous George or killer kowalski: they are managing to get those crowds despite the death of kayfabe, despite the constant surveillance of social media, despite the ever increasing popularity of MMA. Gorgeous George wouldn't survive a day in modern social media. He would cut a promo on how much of a bad guy he is, and then the Internet would bring up the list of his baby mamas. Then it would be curtains for whatever is going on for him. I am digressing from my initial point, but it has to be said.
@@shahsadsaadu5817 Explain to me what you mean by "kayfabe is dead"--because I don't think it is. Even back in the 1960s when my father watched wrestling, people knew it was a bluff. Practically everybody above a certain age knew it was a work. Jim Duggan and The Iron Sheik, to use one example, were caught together in a car using drugs. Yet guess what? Duggan remained over as a face, Sheik remained over as a heel. People already knew they played characters on television. The whole "kayfabe is dead" thing is a cliche that people say without thinking it through. Kayfabe only needs to be kept alive from the start to the end of the show. I'm sure that fans in the old days saw heels acting like regular, kindly people when they were out shopping or at the bar. Those heels still drew money. People knew that John Wayne never served in the Second World War, yet he was a huge box office attraction for decades. Nobody ever thought that George George was really like that once the cameras stopped rolling. For you to say that Cena and Roman deserve more credit than Gorgeous George is ludicrous. No Gorgeous George, no Muhammad Ali. Not Ali, no Superstar Graham, no Dusty Rhodes, no Hulk Hogan, no 'Big Poppa Pump' Scott Steiner, and so on. On a different path, no Gorgeous George, no 'Nature Boy' Buddy Rogers, no Ric Flair, and so it goes. Cena and Roman walked into an established brand that had market saturation. Gorgeous George was the fellow who sold TELEVISION SETS. I know that bumping and selling are two different things. Yet the reaction to The Stunner is a SELL. I'm not talking about how he landed, I'm talking about the fact that he'd react by flying up into the air after taking The Stunner, like he'd kissed a landmine. I'm not the first person to point out The Rock's overselling. People could watch Mike Tyson vs Buster Douglas on television, yet less than two months later, a huge audience tuned in to watch Hogan vs The Warrior at Wrestlemania VI--and a lot of Hogan vs Warrior was the two men throwing worked punches. Never mind the fact that ROCKY movies continued to draw when people knew that Stallone wouldn't have been able to beat your average Golden Gloves boxer. "Kay fabe" only matters in the movies from the start until the finish of the movie. I don't buy this "pro wrestling suffers due to the rise of MMA" nonsense. There are many other reasons why wrestling has lost a lot of appeal. Going back to Mike Tyson, he peaked at the time of Hulkamania, yet Hogan still drew money. PS: parroting my closing line is neither constructive nor clever.
@markv1274 except there is a difference from all those worlds though. The lack of social media meant that very few people knew wrestlers were not like their characters back then. Even the Golden Age Hollywood worked on the fact that Information doesn't reach that fast, to that many people. Everybody did think gorgeous George was like that. In the same way everybody thought (and still thinks) Most gangster rappers were gangsters. You're giving too much credit to the audience back then. Unless there is no one else to fact-check, they will believe whatever is fed to them. Which is how pro wrestling operated back then. Social media and the increasing reach of paparazzi make all of this impossible. John Wayne couldn't and wouldn't make the movies he did in this world, as he would her exposed just like that. If you wanna see how kayfabe would not work in this world, you only need to look at hip-hop. Rick Ross would have been a star back in the 90s, he's seen as a joke today. Why? Because people immediately recognised him for his bullshit now. If pro wrestling was introduced to this reality, it wouldn't make a dime. All of this is why modern wrestlers are to be given their credit. Hulk Hogan wouldn't survive Twitter, but John Cena and roman reigns did and still is.
My favorite worst iwc criticism is “THEY NEED MORE TITLES!!!” So and so isn’t doing anything. They need to introduce another championship so more people can have something to do. Aew proves this criticism is wrong at every level. EVERYONE has a belt. There are so many titles. Their world champion is an afterthought.
Another BANGER Dave!!! One for me is the IWC saying that "I can BOOK better than so and so!", and my response is, well they sell rings and rent out buildings, so go for it. I never get a reply back after that for some odd reason. Keep up the good work and keep them thinking.
There are two huge mindsets that drive me insane as a fan. One of them is how far the tribalism goes. I lean towards AEW much more than WWE because I prefer the wrestlers in AEW over WWE, but I've never wanted WWE to fail simply to be proven right. I genuinely enjoy both, and I want both companies to compete to put on better shows and grow and succeed as they do. When I saw people who took some sort of vindication over AEW struggling in recent months, honestly, I was a bit disgusted. Do you want these wrestlers to lose their jobs and livelihoods simply because they work for the competition? As a wrestling fan, shouldn't you want wrestlers to succeed so they can continue to make better and better content. The second is the idea that a wrestler is exposing the business by doing something that isn't meant to be serious. To give an example, wrestling fans weren't disenfranchised with wrestling as a whole because Kenny Omega wrestled a 9 yeat old girl. Most reasonable people acknowledged that it was a one night thing that was intended as a bit of entertainment. This criticism really should've died at the curtain call if not the formation of the Gold Dust Trio and when the NY Times stopped reporting wrestling results cause they realized they were predetermined or any of the other multitude of example before and after the curtain call. You can't expose the business if it has already been exposed. But more than that, that kinda narrow mindedness keeps wrestling from evolving. Brian Pillman's whole loose cannon gimmick only worked because he learned into the fact that people were getting more knowledgeable about the backstage side of wrestling. Why do you think people were so shocked when he referred to Kevin Sullivan as "Booker Man". That's what allowed people to buy into it so much more than anything else because they knew it was taboo for wrestlers to use those terms. The same could be said for the NWO and their thinly veiled allusions to working with WWE to invade WCW. Honestly, some of the best moments in modern wrestling, such as both summers of punk, the yes movement, kofimania, All In, and countless others, simply wouldn't have been possible if Kaye Fabe wasn't dead. More than that do you really want to go back to that time when it was still considered alive knowing how many wrestlers were assaulted by mobs, stabbed, shot, and the many other horrific stories wrestlers had from back then about crazed fans attacking them. Thankfully, there is considerably less of that now.
Go back to the indies then, or to NJPW or TNA. Top talent will always be able to find work, the rest can always get regular jobs like 99% of the population, and I love that you say you love the wrestlers on AEWA more than WWE when a lot of their roster is former WWE talent lol
The thing for me about the Indy thing, in addition to what you said, is that when an Indy wrestler I've been watching for a while makes it to WWE I'm happy for them and I actually hope they stay for a while
The reflection of perfection? Im calling copyright infringement on that guy .. Sweep is the only one who can make that claim PS: 2:17 😂😂😂😂 Love that you worked that in their Dave... truly, f those guys. Double PS: noticed quite a bit of Alexa in the vid... someone feeling a bit Raunchy today? 😏
Great video, though admittedly don’t love when anybody says criticism= troll = loser because frankly the ability to convey and receive criticism in a reasonable manner is a huge part of what’s missing from the current iwc discourse. Gonna go ahead and assume this makes me a loser 😂
I always get annoyed when fans say, "*Insert wrestler here* needs to leave ____ and go to ____", just because they might not be booked to their liking. Not everyone is going to be in the main event scene, not everyone needs to leave one company and go elsewhere. I saw some fans on Twitter say this about Bayley last year just because she wasn't winning many matches, but look at where she's at now.
Gotta agree Dave thank you for finally criticizing the iwc. It can be to from reasonable criticism to knee jerk or unreasonable criticism in a millisecond.
Good list. I especially agree with "Maturity factor". Take someone like Wendy Choo, she had a very good PG character that wouldve taken off with kids. But it seems like the edgelords won with their complaints.
I wanna think that, but you can never really go back again. Every time someone goes back to an old gimmick it never hits the same. Its always short of the first run
The litmus test for *any* character should be if the casual viewers and non-fans (your *prospective* viewers) care about the character. Here's a game that you can play that will prove my point: talk to someone who isn't a fan, or is a lapsed fan, and tell that person that there's this wrestler who wrestles in her pyjamas and is stricken with a bad case of narcolepsy. See what type if reaction you receive from the person to whom you tell this. It was, objectively speaking, an awful character. Do you really think that WWE listened to a few folks online and ditched the original version of the character? No, they ditched it *because the character wasn't getting over!* To blame anything or anyone else is preposterous. The best characters appeal to all ages. All ages could get into The Ultimate Warrior, Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan. The Honky Tonk Man was a character that everybody could understand and despise. You didn't need to be of a certain age to comprehend Rick Rude. What Dave doesn't understand is that Extreme Championship Wrestling was not a "mature" product. It appealed mostly to the lowest common denominator. People have a funny idea about what the word "mature" means. Being above a certain age doesn't necessarily make one mature. You *can* make a product that draws children as well as adults. It's been done before, and it could happen again.
@@DaveKnowsWrestling If you think that a hugging gimmick is a good idea, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you. See elsewhere about my litmus test of Presenting This Gimmick To A Non-Fan or Casual Viewer. Imagine yourself walking up to a non-fan and saying, "Check out this woman, she runs around *hugging* people all the time, it's brilliant!" The person will likely say, "Ooookaaay..." Of course, some idiot will say, "Well, they're *not fans!* They *don't count!* Newsflash: at one time, every wrestling fan was a non-wrestling fan. Think about it.
Not a criticism but I've spent near 30 years correcting "Rey Mysterio was thrown like a lawn dart" Stupid, have you ever seen a lawn dart? You throw them underhand. Rey was thrown like a javelin. 30 friggan yrs SMH
That's the essence of nitpicking. The announcers weren't referring to the technique, they were referring to the *ease* in which Rey was thrown. It's like when Wrestler A tries to hit a flying body press on Wrestler B, and Wrestler B catches Wrestler A against his chest and with both arms, and the announcers says, "He caught him like a piece of paper!" When was the last time that *you* caught a piece of paper that was flying through the air? If you did, would you catch the piece of paper against your chest and with both arms rather than just one hand? Congratulations, Kevin Willette, for spending 30 years of your life making yourself look stupid to people.
@@kevinwillette5161 So, you can't spend *20 seconds* reading a post? I bet you'd spend more time than that each time you unleashed your stupid "lawn dart" rant--and you've been doing it for 30 YEARS. Hilarious! Again: they weren't referring to the technique, they were referring to the *ease* of the act. "Tossed him like a lawn dart."
One more thing: *you don't throw a javelin* with both hands. You throw it with *one* hand. So, if you think that people saying "lawn dart" were stupid...I wonder what that makes you? I've never seen anyone throw a javelin with both hands. Larry Z's original call was "dart"--and in case anyone wants to know, here is the footage: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gdu__J8jTnI.html Others might have subsequently said "lawn dart"--but so what? For 30 years you've had a stick up your arse about this...30 years. Was this your big thing at parties? Ludicrous.
I barely consider myself a part of the IWC anymore, but what a great video, congrats! I used to be all of those lol, but honestly, every time I can find myself time to watch wrestling, I just lay back and enjoy
Hey, I feel ya. I'm the same way and I have a RU-vid channel. However, I realized that, like it or not, we are a part of the greater IWC. And that also makes us responsible for it too. So I decided that I'm tired of the reputation the IWC has of being a bunch of unintelligent losers who are over sensitive. It's time we prove that smart, mentally healthy people can like wrestling too
Cena turning heel would have been better for older fans but as cena was moving merchandise and tickets with families and kids, he was there superman, so superman turning evil isn't great for kids thus bad for husiness
I grew up in the Rock n Wrestling era. Its hard to argue for your point regarding managers today when its been shown that a lot of the wrestlers that have been given managers have been because of their need of help when it comes to mic presence.
And dont forget the realism people that fights whether this or that is showcasing realism or not. And it depends on either wreslters no selling on certain moves to look strong or wreslter over selling it. Or either depends on what kinda of product it is I am tired of people telling that selling makes things real, or this company focuses on realism thats why selling is rear here. And i am also tired to hear this era felt like real to me, now it feels rather they are trying to overdo things. And that feeling is how i lost the grasp, the magic and thr speciality of wrestling. Realism in wrestling is extremely rare. And wrestling to enjoy depends on how much you get yourself into the storyline, you much you submerge into it, and thats what kinda makes it real. I was submerged in it for months and that bubble popped out, and i dont find any of it interesting.
And a lot of IWC have absolutely no idea of what a CAREER truthfully entails,the definition of Career is a Path. And financially careers especially in Entertainment go Up and Down. Kevin Nash said it best "The only thing that's Real is Wrestling, is The Money and The Miles"
This entire video is wonderful. Even if you disagree with dave you can see he is atleast reasoned himself into his positions, isn't be an extremists and hears people out.
I personally hate this “they deserve it” shit from fans. Believing a wrestler deserves to win something because of their hard work. Yet those fans have no understanding that wrestling is worked and not about someone’s hard work but rather their value to bring in fans via merch, tickets sold, drawing ability. In wrestling you don’t get given the world title because you are a good worker, you get given the world title for selling merch and selling tickets. If you’re giving world titles to hard workers you might as well give the title to everyone then.
i don't always agree with your poInts, but even the ones I disagree with are so eloquently stated that I can't help but appreciate that you're the person who gave me that perspective
@@DaveKnowsWrestling You're more of what this community needs. It's nothing but hot takes and regurgitation of other people's opinions. If I never saw another rephrased take from Cornette, Bischoff, Bully, Meltzer, or worse, Rybavk or Russo, I'd be happy.
Making life changing money but yes, the internet fans want me back in the indies for no money and taking crazy bumps that I won't be able to pay to heal from.
I also don't like the "Is X the new Y ?" questions from wrestling fans. Especially when they compare the current product to The Attitude Era, which is not fair. Today's programming changes every week, and you don't know how things are going to go, unlike the past when you do, because it already happened.
I still believe that a wrestler turning heel could be the necessary reaction needed to keep them from being turned on by the fans. Roman Reigns is the best example of this, while Apollo Crews was the worst. The only times I can remember having a wrestler turn heel failing to help them, are guys whose career was already getting terminated by WWE (i.e. Tucker, Big Cass, Enzo) and WWE just needed a reason to bury them on the way out.
As I said, it CAN work, but it doesn't always. Austin's heel turn was a debacle. Rikishi's heel turn failed. Which Nakamura turn got him over? There are plenty that did not help whatsoever. And the point is that the IWC is way too quick to suggest it and it only works when it makes sense and is done right with the right person
I deeply apologize for the long boring rant! Heck, more mature content does not make great wrestling matches. I think the Attitude Era sucked. Hell, it made WCW a little unbearable when Russo took charge and made it like then WWF. Speaking of the Attitude Era, I find it funny how people keep going on about Cena and/or Reigns "being shoved down throats" yet in the Attitude Era it was like the same 5 people Taker, Foley, Rock, HHH and Austin so to me that's a little hypocritical. It also bugs me whenever someone is leaving WWE, I see posts of so and so is ALL Elite like there aren't other promotions. The so and so needs to be pushed is another pet peeve. The other one is so and so needs a heel/face turn. I find that stupid because the fans will support who they want regardless. People were booing Bret Hart who was a face while they were cheering for Steve Austin who was a heel. Heck, Cena made a comment about people who're stuck in the face/heel crap should wear his shorts or something from I think he said middle school. Oh, and back to the whole needing a more mature raying thing, what people forget or choose not to pay attention to is that then WWF was getting some serious heat from parental groups especially the Christian ones and from politicians along with sponsors threatening to pull funding. Hell, look at what's been happening on this website known as RU-vid for the past decade. Plus I find it funny how the most of the same people that're demanding a higher rating are the most immature people ever. Heaven forbid if you actually supported John Cena or Roman Reigns in the past just to name a couple of people. The childish insults that gets flown around. Again, sorry for the boring rant.
"Oh he's just an indy darling." I hate shit cuz duh a lot of guys were really damn good standouts on the indy scene & people wanted to see them. I mean the same thing can be said for others like "oh he's just a company made guy, he's never really done anything to earn his spot"
Bryan Danielson and James Storm have talked about in interviews how they made way more money in the independents/TNA, then they did as a Mid-carder in WWE/NXT. It is a fact that some wrestlers make way more money in the indies than they do in WWE/NXT.
How would Storm know? He was never im WWEs midcard. But I hear you that in specific cases for specific wrestlers, especially if we're counting developmental in NXT, you can make more money outside WWE. But while I didn't get into this in the video, those rare cases are the exception to the rule and are mostly not sustainable. Plus, the smaller promotion scene has changed dramatically in recent years. No ROH, Chikara, and TNA have been operating at a much smaller level lately. This ain't 2007
@DaveKnowsWrestling James Storm did an interview that's on youtube, where he said he would make more money on TNA as a Tag team champion/Mid-carder than as NXT Champion. You're correct that only about 37 out of 100 people make more money in the independents than in WWE and that it really depends more on the person's life and what they want out of life. Every wrestler is different.
All of these have exceptions. There are wrestlers who are probably overrated or who maybe would do better on the indies or whatever, but on the whole, Dave is right, the internet tends to overuse and overblow these things.
That is not what you said originally. See how you changed tunes. And you still didn't provide an actual source. I would also like a source for your 37 out of 100 number. You're making some definitive statements, but I really question the accuracy
Worst live show crowd experience for me was at an AEW event. Person next to me had BO you could smell from several rows. I moved and begged the people to let me change seats
13:45 I would agree with this if this was 2014. But ever since Social Media popped off, Indy Wrestling Companies actually do pay their talent well, especially those who are renowned and have credentials like being from WWE or even AEW. But obviously not everyone even if you were in WWE will necessarily have success in the independence.
There are a few exceptions to the rule, but thinking that it's a viable option regularly or that the pay is competitive with WWE on average is incorrect.
The obscure reference thing can be disruptive sometimes, but sometimes fans over react about it, too. An example would be CMLL wrestlers appearing on aew recently and fans complaining "I dont know who they are!" I mean, name your favorite wrestler and there was a time when you first saw them and didn't know who they were. Watch and find out who they are.
No. That's not how this works. Who even watches CMLL anyway? Your "defense" will only make people NOT watch. AEW fans should already know who the CMLL guys are by what kind of promotion AEW is.
Right, I dont watch cmll either and I didn't know who any of those guys were, but I didn't care. Sometimes its enough to know 2 guys dont like each other and sit back and enjoy the fight.
Pretty sure Paul admitted with Curtis Axel & Ryback that he was never trying to help their career or get them over and was just thrown with them to give Paul TV time to talk about Brock while Brock was off TV. So don't think that's a real example of "even the best manager can't help bad talent" he just wasn't trying to help them.
I hate it when fans do that, AEW gives you plenty of time to look up who these wrestlers are [I mean you could probably look up someone's Wiki by the time I finish typing this comment] the internet is an excellent tool it's 2024 not 1994 it's not a promotions responsibility to hold your hand and spoon feed you
This is probably me just being a snowflake but that was kind of a mean spirited video. Thats very unlike you in my opinion but maybe I don’t know you well enough…
I do think you're being overly sensitive. Although I am not surprised since normally I'm criticizing bookers, but now I've turned the microscope around onto the fans. Which some people don't like. But I'll tell you what, start working in the industry and also run a wrestling channel for 8 years and we'll see how tired you are of hearing the same dumb things over and over again from people who have no experience in the business
