109. Timing - What is it? Part1 

Sir... The amount of effort you and your team take to make these videos are phenomenal. Thank you very much for that. Much appreciated. Love from India.

No one is better than you as a left handed player i have learned a lot from you simply the best teacher ever huge respect from Pakistan

I expected a longer hiatus. Welcome back, we missed you.

Welcome back Barry, really cool video, fantastic that you were able to use that phenomenal camera! Thanks for the insight!

I have been dying to see super slow mo footage analyzed by a pro like this! Thank you! Please do more! A suggestion I would have is that when you juxtapose two shots together like you have here, that you put them on top of each other. It keeps the eye from having to jump left to right to compare. Would be a bit easier to see the difference if we were watching both on top of each other, I think! Thanks again!

Great to have you back Barry. Timing is something I've noticed too. You have to stay on your rhythm otherwise you'll go off course. Nicely explained and once again, awesome to have you back. Welcome.

Thank you and your crew for this scientific approach on timing and feel of a shot. I always knew a soft tip would have longer contact due to compression and a good stroke equals a good contact. I was enlightened by the explanations and video computations. Good job to all involved.

Superb video... I've been playing (as an amateur) with what you can call "decent players" with just 30+ breaks and the only thing they all emphasize is keep practicing and don't stop... forget the pot and get the technique right, then you'll slowly start potting more. I saw your earlier video on timing and you've been able to prove what you already knew! Again, many thanks for succinctly explaining a beautiful game.

So happy to see your return.

This is a great addition to Dr Dave Billiards' video from 10yrs ago (search for "stroke speed and acceleration analysis") that analysed 3 different acceleration technique for pendulum stroke. There he mentions the "incredibly brief contact time of cue and cue ball". It always bugged me just how brief that was, because intuitively I felt the longer the better for control and maximum backspin. And this video finally answers that question. Thank you, Barry.

Thank you Barry. You have confirmed my hunch too. Interesting to see cue flex too. Be great to see how cues (ash versus maple) react on your high speed setup. All the best from New Zealand

Awesome explanation Barry!! Really appreciate all the work you do

Absolutely. I've played cue sports and a big fan for many years and I understand immediately what you were talking about . It has also been a thing in my head for many years but until now I finally know what it is .

O conteúdo desse canal é realmente fantástico!! Não considerava esse elemento do jogo. Obrigado, Barry!

What incredible footage !

RESPECT ! I was wondering for ages how the hell a cue ball should be hit, now thanks to you i know exactly what i must reach and i know what i need to practice for. Thank you !

Maybe the difference would be more noticeable if you looked at a stroke made by an ordinary player and then an experienced one, ie one who has no concept of timing and one who does. You are attempting to measure the difference between a good shot and a better shot, therefore the measurement should be small. Just a thought.

Amazing pictures, and certainly food for thought. Thank you.

You are the best Barry, Thank you.

These videos are getting better and better.

Very nice. Hope to see more. That shows that "going through the ball" doesn't push it all the time. It is more the change in stability of the queue when hitting it.

Thank you Mr. stark for this insightful video. Timing is definitely the key to good action on the cue ball. That's why some player do not hit the cue ball as hard as others but still get a lot of action on the cue ball like Stephen Lee, Ali Carter, Ronnie, Shaun Murphy. and you definitely feel it if you time it well. For me as you say sound is a very good sense of knowing if you time well.

Thank you Barry for your insight, I'm pretty sure this is the first time someone could prove that longer contact theory, I've never thought of timing this way before. And as a player, when you do strike the ball with a good timing, it's quite a wonderful sensation because I think you can even feel it in how differently the cue vibrates in your hand than it would with a poorer shot.

Barry, I love you man! Keep making these awesome videos. I'm mostly interested in the technical aspects of the game. But make the videos as you see fit. Oh, 1 request: make a video on psychology for beginners and semi-amateurs, on state of mind and how to look on the game. How to handle dissapointment in performance. Would greatly appreciate that! Keep up the good work. Greatings from Belgium!

Mr. Stark, you are just wonderful. The videos are really great. Your advises represent a treasure of experience. Please make more videos, lots and lots of them. Cheers from Egypt.

What an absolute joy of a video. I could watch super slowmo snooker collisions 🎱 💥 all day long.

Fascinating. Must be why I struggle with screw back, because I’m not contacting the cueball long enough to make it spin enough. I will try again with this in mind.

Barry, you are not crazy. When I mentally cue myself about keeping my cue tip longer on the cue ball, I can achieve better spin.

I’ve believed this as well, what a great video in helping to prove this theory. It’s almost the same as jabbing at the cue ball as opposed to following through smoothly. Firm but not tight grip+ straight cueing+ follow through = longer tip contact with the cue ball. I recommend your videos to everyone at my local club as I know personal your advice works perfectly! Thanks Barry for your time and expertise.

YEAH, That's what we want to see from this channell!!

Slightly off such subject,but in tennis it's the same,was taught to feel the ball on the strings for as long as possible,very nteresting,thanks Barry,great to have you back.

Really interesting, I've watched a bit of high speed video in relation to spin/throw etc. but never seen anything about quality of contact. Thanks for making this novel contribution!

Good scientific material,Barry. Of course you are right. Myself 35 years tenniscoach..done same experience. A tennisball got way more flexibilty than a snookerball..so for us it was clearly to prove a professionel tennisplayer hits a ball with way more "timing-quality" than others. Contact time way longer has been proved.with a harder material as a snookerball is harder to prove. Good Job ,Barry.

Barry, Cricket and snooker have always been "My games" and I agree with you 100%. My Cricket is far better than my snooker and in particular its batting that I'm drawing a comparison with. You just get that feeling that the contact point in time just feels longer and more satisfactory when you time the ball right. I play golf also (pretty badly) but again you just know that the point in time when the head makes contact and grips that ball longer you've timed it well and the shot no matter what sport is just right. Great video.

Super video...Love it!

Awesome work, Barry

I had the same thing in mind a week ago!! Thank you Barry!! You're awesome! By the way, I think it might not only be the time of hitting the ball longer, it's also about feeling the weight of the white.

It’s true what you say contact is essential it’s a feeling you get from the ball. Same as in golf excellent ball contact through the ball gives excellent shot

This question has been in my mind for years and years! Thanks for delving into the subject beyond the surface cliche Barry, you are the man! Personally I am not convinced that longer contact between the cue tip and cue ball is the only defining characteristic of a well timed shot... 1. The cue acceleration through the required velocity for the desired outcome must coincide with the point of contact between the cue tip and the cue ball (seems more important to me). hit the ball too early in the stroke or accelerate the cue too late and the shot will be weak. hit the ball too late in the stroke or accelerate the cue too early and the shot will be weak. 2. The acceleration at that point of contact must be at it's maximum (Thus allowing the potential for a longer contact). I've also always wondered when using side a longer contact time is actually going deflect the cue ball more than if the contact is shorter. So I wonder if the better players get less deflection maybe they are in fact having a shorter cue tip/cue ball connection, thus less deflection.?.

Barry thank god your mind is steady figuring out how to get much better, thanks you are a great ambassador for the game

Its a beautiful thing, most impressive videos, thanks for sharing.

Thank you sir, for the effort, great stuff!

wow, what an amazing work

This is extremely cool and helpful. Thank you!

Knew i would like this video. but I have to say now - THAT WAS JUS EPIC! . .

Thank for your videos. I will just had that the concept of an instantaneous contact is a mathematical idea and it has no bearing with our material and complex reality. One interesting fact: in the slow motion samples, it seems that in the shots with a better rating, the follow-through of the cue has a speed more similar the the cue ball than the ones with a low rating. It reminds me of a pool instructor who said that the cue must always accelerate through the cue ball and not decelerate.

Barry, I thought your first explain of timing was more than sufficient. However, this takes it to a level that I can't help but find absolutely fascinating. Look forward to the next one 👍

This, in all probability, also explains why the type of tip used is ultra important, if it feels good, feels right, it's because the tip has just the right amount of absorption, and thus feel and timing are one and the same, perfect harmony. Again great content Barry, very interesting, relevant stuff 👌

Completely agree with your theory Barry. Even as a very average player you can definitely feel when you've timed the shot well, the sound and the feel of the vibration in your cueing hand tell you instantly whether you've timed well or not.

nice to see you again Barry.

شكرا جزيلا على ما تقدمه من تعليمات والجهود الواضح لتوصيل المعلومات 👍👏👏

Barry, FYI, I just posted a video ("STROKE TIMING … A Complete MythBusting Study of Stroke Acceleration Effects") that includes excerpts from your videos (with links to your videos in my video description). Please let me know if you have any comments. Sorry I didn't try to contact you before posting my video. I thought about it, but lost sight during the hard work of putting the video together.

nice to see you again :)

Amazing video sir.. the amount of research and experience you out into these videos for betterment of game is inspiring. Great stuff !!

Barry, i believe you are absolutely correct with your way of thinking about timing! Cue and a tip - are a kind of spring, that stay in contact with a ball longer when they go with acceleration. When deaccelerated, the contact time is shorter. It is not hard to imagine. Instead of a hard leather tip you can put a peace of a soft rubber 1cm thick on a cue and try again. I think that will help to explain the effect. Closing of the grip, deadly center line (without sides) strike and paralell cue movement also should be shown. Otherwise the experiment will not be complete. Best regards from Moscow! Children say that your sign on their cues gives +20 points to the break!

Barry this is quite amazing. I am a senior researcher at University of Wisconsin-S and I would love to publish an article anout your findings, citing you and giving you credit for all this. Let me know if you would like me to work on an academic articl about this, I believe it would be a first in the scientific community which would be quite amazing

Nice video..i liked the music..you still look great,coach..Tq

Wow! Great vid! Can't wait for the harder evidence vid. How cool is it to watch the tip deform and then regain its shape? Thanks for the insight.

Um dos melhores ,senao o melhor,conteudo de sinuca na net,pra aprendizado e dicas (Best Channel about snooker .Thanks Barry😍)

Great Video Coach, and a great answer to rubbish talkers...😄

Thank you, Barry. This was interesting to me. As I thought about this the idea came to me that each shot will have it's own best contact time. Harder shots shorter time and soft shots have a longer time. My hypothesis is that the contact time will always vary depending on what the shot requires. Maximizing the length of time for those individual shots is the key. And I could very well be incorrect about this. I have no finished watching this video so if you mentioned this my apologies. Cheers

It´s incredible that all this tecnical effort and equipment is necessery, to actually show what Players can allready feel and hear. "Just" by playing the game consistently. :)

Very interesting analysis. It would be great to have another video with the camera. It would also be very interesting to see the stroke of different professional and amateur players to see how much contact times differ between them. Would also be interesting to see how much draw the white had after a certain stroke to see how contact times relate to what the white does on the table.

Excellent video Barry. I've always believed this and that's why I seem to time the shot better with a soft tip. That does seem to fly in the face of the fact that so many pros seem to be using really hard tips nowadays, kamui's etc. If you do a follow up video with more slow motion shots it would be interesting to see a comparison between hard and soft tips. Interesting to note that Michael Holts tip looks like a Xiguan tip which are synthetic and play quite soft.

Barry you are good and also a scientist of snooker. Good job

Brilliant. Very enjoyable. It's funny that the "sweet spot' exists in several sports: snooker, tennis, football, golf, etc. I'm not a great player but have played a lot in my youth and as you say it's timing and feel. When it feels right, I believe the acceleration through the ball is just right, compared to 'snatch' shots where the acceleration is too soon and therefore the contact time on the ball too quick. In these shots, there's plenty of power but not enough desired action on the ball and I believe that's because the sweet spot of just right amount of acceleration to get most out of ball is off. And, like the sports I mentioned, when everything comes together just right, you know, even people watching and listening can tell: the sweet spot of contact.

What might also be interesting regarding this is comparing two different players. I would imagine the speed with which each player pushes the cue through would also affect the contact time; do "better" players have more cue ball contact time? What is the contact time difference between, say, good follow through vs. stabbing at it. Very interesting indeed-Needs statistical correlation though to be significant, even for differences as small as this. You could even expand on this for different cue tip materials etc... Thanks for this, Barry and team!

Amazing footage, I always love to see slow motion footage of snooker. Sadly there are only a handful of clips on the web. Please, if you can, try using a striped or a marked ball (sharpie a red or even better a yellow ball) as an object ball, so we can finally prove if there is significant or not ball to ball spin transfer. As many claim there is, and many swear it's impossible. I happened to believe there is, and it also depends on the quality of the balls themselves (the material and roughness). As my practice set of balls is cheap and I am very positive there is a significant enough amount of spin transfer to make me miss a pot if there is extreme english or spin applied. Maybe not so much, or even none on the tournament sets, but I could never afford that anyway. If you could do a comparison that would be even more amazing. Thank you!

Beautiful.

Dear Barry, Good job! I am a Hungarian physicist and an amateur pool player. This experiment was really interesting and also what you have said about the sound made by the collision. Actually I have a suggestion: You can easily analyse the spectra of the sound using a microphone attached to a digitiser and see if there is any quantitative difference between the sound of a "good" shot and a "bad" one.

Enjoyed that.

wonderful video.. it defintely helped me and improved my game alot... keep up the good work sir i learnt alot from your channel

Sir an amazing clip for pros

Ur the best mr barry no one could dare to explain such a topic in this detailed way ur the best love u from Lebanon ❤️❤️

I’m sure timing is a thing but I feel with technology we tend lately to analyze a little to much. Yes it is very good to be technical to some degree but Ronnie or Stephen growing and playing I doubt they had hi tech cameras. They practiced long hours and like Barry said they just knew when they hit the ball right. Remember one time Stephen was interviewed one time and some chick was trying to get technical about the angles and physics behind the shot and I remember his answer:“ I have no clue how the physics works I know where I want the cue ball for my next shot and I just make it go there” it was priceless. I will never forget. Good player feel the ball the cue and the shoot. It just comes with hours of training and of course sometimes talent.

you should use the spotted ball in all your videos barry, gives a better perspective of what is happening on the shot, keep up the great work, look forward to all your videos, cheers

I have always been told that great timing was when you struck the cueball at the peak of acceleration of the stroke. If that is the case then it makes sense that the cue tip would compress just that slight amount more to let it stay in contact with the cueball for that millisecond.

What a good idea for a video. Very interesting point about timing. I hope there is coming more with that awesome camera. How's about a comparison between your and selinas timing. 😏

I hear this point lots of time coach with good players and also from ronnie o Sullivan.. Ronnie in her master class say you should maintain cue tip long as you can . Even i am also try from the month to implement this point in my cue action . This is really great video i hope you make more .. And coach i thinks you should try this shots with pressure grip and cue same speed and +hit white softly and with pushing make slow mo on that ronnie apply same method this i think..

Fab video Barry. When Steve Davis coached his World Snooker Coaching Courses, he claimed that the cue tip was in contact with the cue ball for only approx 5-7 mm. it would be great to see evidence of this in relation to different rates of acceleration/deceleration through the cue ball. I really enjoyed this... Thank you The key to this I believe to be the amount of acceleration occurring whilst the tip is in contact with the cue ball. More acceleration, more cue ball reaction, then more efficiency and “timing” It would also be really useful to compare efficiency and striking of different cue woods. To compare Ash cues which are quite Whippy, and maple cues that are a lot more stiff. I notice from the video there is a lot of deflection with Michael holts ash cue, it will be interesting to find out if any of that deflection energy gets transferred into the cue ball using a different maple Cue.

I'm new to your channel and I previously commented on your cameramans' angles. However, I've just seen this video for the first time and I LOVE the slow-mo shots at the end! My eyes and mind were opened as to what actually is happening when I strike the cue. Amazing! The Power Topspin and Power Screw shots really got me! I believe I saw the cue ball on the Power Topspin jump 4 times! (I slowed my RU-vid down to 0.5 playback speed, lol) My only issue is this. I listened to several pool/snooker instructors talk about timing and what I gathered from them was that timing is the correlation between 'WHERE' you hit the cue ball and how much 'POWER' you strike it with. Your explanation of timing is how 'LONG' the cue stick stays in contact with the cue ball. So what would you call my description of timing?

Mind the little mic Barry 😂 On a serious note, this is a wonderful video. Thank you so much! Tonight Barry... I’m going to be Alex Higgins 😜

thats science! great video

You just feel it, when it happens,, I totally agree

It makes sense. Like if you are to stiff trying to get back spin, you will usually miscue. Let the stick make the contact, don't force it! I'll practice this tonight.

This is very interesting. I've written an article with a similar theory about acceleration of the keys in piano playing. I'm working around an idea of slightly prolonging the contact between the key and the hammer (by accelerating smoothly during first contact rather than sharply). I believe you can make a bigger sound with less impact noise (between the key and the keybed) and less perception of effort. This would be achieved by marginally increasing the time spent passing on acceleration (so the hammer doesn't lose contact with the key prematurely). These things definitely merit analysis.

Hi Barry. Have you produced an updated video on timing yet, using the new camera?

Barry, our genius of the green baize (Ronnie) said it best. As you push your cue make sure you are accelerating all the way through the shot. Soft or gentle, accelerate. I believe it is this acceleration that produces the longer contact with the white. If you look at your slow motion footage it makes perfect sense. The white is escaping the tip if you push through slower that the initial momentum of the tip hitting the white. To stay in contact you have to stay at the speed of the white. This acceleration gives you fantastic follow through.

Darn pretty watching the cue ball dance!

I find it interesting that there isn't more discussion about cue tip density and thickness, as the compression and rebound of the tip material seems to take up a large amount of the contact time. The pro in this video used feel, sound, and cue ball (re)action to determine how well he struck the ball. I think the tip of the cue should be discussed a great deal more when "feel" is such an important aspect of the subject, and when it clearly makes a significant impact in regards to contact time. As for defining the word "timing" in regards to striking whitey with the cue tip.... I have always considered timing to be which part of the stroke contact is made, for instance: before, during, or after acceleration. An accelerating cue tip should in theory stay in contact with the ball longer than a decelerating cue tip. And the same applies to the soft vs. hard tip comparison. Looking forward to future videos. Thank you for your efforts, Mr. Stark.

Barry hope your ok mate been whatching michale as well he’s A great coach keeps it simple joe Davis said keep cue in contact with white as long as possible kieren is a great testemant to you hope your healthy x

I've recently made a change to my own cue action...I've been really conscious to get my tip as close to the cue ball as possible when I'm feathering before I strike...my timing is so much sweeter now than before when I was a good inch away from the white ball (I'm now only millimetres away). So timing for me is knowing the moment the tip hits the cue ball in your head rather than just pushing the cue through straight and not knowing the exact moment the tip hits the white.

Awesome video. Barry can't wait for the next. Any chance u could explain a kick using that camera???

It is also impressive seeing the flexure of the cue stick. There must be a relationship between cue stiffness, both in compression and bending, and time-in-contact.

Can you have a beginner or average player, doing similar or centre ball hit shots, so we can see what happens for most of us mortals when not hitting the cue ball correctly? Very good video and a lot of great information. Neil

Dear Barry Sir, Greetings from Nepal. Thank you very much for your kindness message and an information.I am not a good player,but i hope slowly i will be improve my game. Warm regards Pemba Lama

Agree completely. A good stroke (i.e., contact with the cue ball), can make all the difference. I would add, if I may, that a good stroke is a combination of "timing" along with "power" (i.e., how much strength or force is delivered in the stroke).

Thankyou so much for your time and effort putting this footage together. Very appreciated! I would really love to know how much the extra contact is as a percentage? As you say, in micro seconds it is a very small number, but the overall time the tip is in contact with the cue ball is in itself a very tiny amount of time... so what does the extra time equate to as a percentage? Is it 10% for example... because if it is that much then it makes that very insignificant amount of time a VERY significant amount of time... it's all relative is what I am getting to... thanks again 👍

Interesting research for cue tip designs , just like the grooves in a golf clubs let’s the golfer hold onto to the ball for longer , surely a dimpled cue tip or a courser Chalk (like red master chalk) are a good thing. More comparison videos please but with different tips and chalk combinations , looks like every millisecond counts ...

It's like a lot of different sports. You can hit the ball or do the same move and get the same results over and over, but sometimes through that repetitiveness, you develop a sort of intuition or instinct that feels like you've really nailed that shot or move. The same thing can be said about Martial Arts. I don't know who said this quote but "I fear not the man who practices a thousand punches but the Man who practices a punch a thousand times". But, yea. Through practice, in anything in life really, not only sports. You develop your mind also, quite intrinsically I feel. It's an amazing and neat thing, our brains. It Might be tied to our abilities to adapt to things which could explain how we are able to notice slight variances in the subject we have accustomed ourselves to. Like two masters facing off against each other. Only those two are able to ascertain the slight nuances or very slight nuances of each other's actions. Instinct and Intuition developed through repetitiveness. These effects are even greater magnified if you have a passion for that particular thing. Edit: It's amazing this fact. The fact that there are so many other crafts and activities we are ignorant of, on the mental level. But there are some people out there who're able to perceive the deeper workings and feelings of it, like Professional and Experienced Snooker players. There could be other types of subjects or sports that we have a greater affinity to compared to others. That could be due to the fact that some mechanisms of that said sport have similar ties to the sport we have the greatest affinity to. The vastness of our ignorance is amazing. It makes you want to be a professional at every sport, study every subject, develop an intuition for sorts of things. That Intuition being that "moment of bliss" where your mind just clicks and you feel as though you're in the flow of things. I've experienced it many times and it's amazing. If there is a God, I'd assume He is able to perceive all these things.