Definitely, much better than a.223/5.56. It would have been good for the US to have upgraded their service round up to the 6.5 Grendel, or the 6mm ARC. Serbia did and I wonder if any other nations will follow. Military adaptation of loadings brings the availablility up and the cost down.
As someone who also has a 6 ARC and knows the benefits of it, a cartridge war between the 6 ARC and the 6.5 grendel would be awesome. The more people who get on the 6 ARC train, the more they'll produce and the more it'll be available Ryan, with the improved twist rate of 1:8, why are you going with the 80 grain TTSX instead of the 95 grain LRX? Is it only because of the extra velocity for proper expansion at a little longer distances?
I'd assume (and you know what they say about assuming) that since 1) he's been a big fan of the TTSX's for a while and 2) the heavier projectile would have that much more recoil, while the benefits only present themselves at longer ranges. He states at 8:35 that this isn't going to be used at particularly long ranges on larger game, only pushing the distance on smaller critters like antelope. That's my take and it's worth as much as you paid for it ;)
6.5 Grendel > 6 ARC for versatility and hunting and both would be INCREDIBLE using that new bi-metal case tech to get the velocities up. 6 ARC is a really cool round but the 6.5 Grendel can sling heavier bullets when desired. Ive been hunting with the Grendel for over 7 years here in the PNW and I've taken White Tail, Black Tail, Antelope, Coyotes and even a very large cow elk. Im hoping to supress my Grendel(s) soon as its easily my favorite round in its category. In an AR15 its all but unbeatable with the edge going to 6mm ARC for defensive/martial use IMO.
@ignaciovaccaro2745 he's also used the LRX, though, for other cartridges. And since the recoil is so minimal anyway, I personally don't see it being hardly noticeable. There are some benefits to the LRX even if he's shooting game at 300 yards. Higher BC and lower needed velocity for expansion would be the biggest ones. Don't get me wrong, I shot the 80 gr TTSX in my .243 and it killed a lot of deer, I just think the LRX line is better if your rifle has the twist rate to stabilize it
@DB.KOOPER that's why I think that'd be a fun cartridge war. The problem with the 6.5, in my opinion, is that it can't shoot high BC bullets, and even the lighter bullets are being shot at unimpressive velocities. The 6 ARC shoots almost the same weight bullets (I shoot the barnes matchburner 112gr in mine) as the 6.5 grendel (common loading that I've seen is 120) at almost the same speeds. I haven't done the calculations on it, but at some point down range, the 6 ARC will have more energy because of the higher BC bullets. When I first researched the 6.5 grendel (maybe 7 or 8 years ago), I was highly unimpressed, even with the hype about it. I said it doesn't shoot a heavy enough bullet, and it doesn't have the velocity. I got really excited when I saw the 6 ARC, though. By no means am I saying you're wrong for liking the 6.5. I know it has benefits over the 6 ARC.
@DB.KOOPER I wouldn't call the 6.5 Grendel more versatile. Both excel at varmints, coyotes, and deer with low recoil. Both are subpar for elk, though they can do the job with the right bullet and perfect placement. My only thing with the ARC from a bolt action is it is doing the same thing a 6BR Norma can do on a .308 bolt face.
I'd love to see 6.5 grendel vs 6mm arc. Maybe even incorporate 224 Valkyrie and 22 Nosler or 204 Ruger. I think this area of the cartridge market is really interesting especially how it always seems like each is claimed to be better somehow. It would be extremely cool to see how each compares to each other in ballistics gel testing like you guys do it!!
The 6mm arc is awesome in a gas gun! I just got done writing an article on it for Handloaders magazine. Should be in the next issue of there’s! Oh by the way it’s got a Vortex venom on top for an optic ! As always great show guys!
I love my 6 ARC bolt gun. Built it for more "tactical 1300yd gun" based on a Savage 110 SB. She's a sweet shooter and does well with Barnes 112 MB and Varget. The biggest issue with 6 ARC in the bolt gun is that the SAAMI spec leaves a lot on the table and requires handloading.
I debated the 6arc/6.5 Grengel option and went with the 6.5 and love the 120gr ttsx. I still wonder if the 6arc is any better in real world hunting. I really think it's a toss-up! I also giggled with the recoil of the 6.5. It's also a joy to shoot.
The 6.5 grendel is undoubtedly gonna be a bit better in real world hunting due to the wider frontal area. That said, it won't be terribly different. Ryan mentions that their are not lightweight projectiles in his preferred light weight solid copper type setup but Maker Rex and Barnes both make ±100gr range in 6.5. The Grendel can push those from a 22" barrel realistically in the 2900-3000fps range that his 6 ARC pushes the 85gr ttsx.
There is nothing marginal about the 6arc. Use eldm's and slay out to 1800fps. Go look at what the 106gr TAP eldm bullet does in 10% ballistic gelatin tests.
My 6.5 grendel ruger american ranch rifle checked my intermediate scout/stick boxes for the most part. Added boyds at one stock, magpul moe bipod, and vortex strike eagle lpvo, iron sights. It's hands down my favorite
Maker bullets makes 85, 95, 110 and 120gr monolithic pills for the grendel and my personal experience has shown better and more consistent performance than Barnes
I bought a Carbon 6.5 PRC Howa barreled action w/hinged floorplate this year and added Stocky's VG2 carbon stock (in carbon fiber) with a can on the front, and man, it's a slick Rick. (Y'all have a photo in a prior email, which Jimmy saw.) Shot it to 700 yards this past week. It's a lot of gun or barreled action for the dollar. I took a solid 4x4 Mule Deer at 330 yards last week with it as well. Can't speak to the 6 ARC but the Howa carbon action, me likey.
Bring enough gun! Better to bring a little too much then not enough when hunting, especially with 2 different tags! 60+ years hunting, reloading and collecting rifles I have seen a few things especially with my fathers reloading Noslers in the 50’s and 60’s he got from John Nosler and the performance diffence!
I did a 6mm ARC build earlier this year! Went with a 12.5” AR on an SBR lower and folding stock. Even from a short barrel the 6mm ARC easily out-performs a 77gr 223/5.56 from an 18” barrel. By 2-300 yards it’s overcome the initial velocity discrepancy and energy remains much better with the ARC. Even with a suppressor the gun is short enough folded to rest horizontal on my passenger seat.
Running the Axis in the arc with 85 gr partitions and 32 gr of Leverevolution muzzle average is 3060 fps for me. Total that gun took 4 antelope and 2 muleys this season all within the 300 yrd envelope. Great performance
Ryan stated it accurately... the Howa 1500 is an upgrade on the venerable Remington 700 (not a small statement)... and does not get the love it deserves...
I absolutely love the Howa 1500 action. I have 3 Weatherby Vanguards. There isn’t anything wrong with the HACT trigger but I put a Timney on all of mine. The integral recoil lug alone makes it an upgrade over the Rem 700.
@@redleg84yes but make sure you are buying a mini action trigger. There are also spring kits available for the stock triggers. I swapped all 4 of mine to timney. Brownells is the place for howa parts
I do not have a Howa mini action personally but from what I have read the Howa Timney does fit. My Weatherbys are short and long action and the trigger fits them just fine. I have to agree with @kirkmartin2223 though, Brownells is a great place to inquire.
@@kirkmartin2223Timney doesn’t make a mini action trigger. I called Legacy Sports/Howa and Timney and had a conversation with both when I had a Howa superlite…because that rifle is kind of odd…it’s kind of a Howa 1500 but also kind of a mini action. Both Howa and Timney told me that there’s essentially no difference between the mini action trigger and the regular 1500 trigger, but I might have to cut a good portion of the front of the trigger housing off the Timney. There’s nothing in that part of the trigger assembly, but that’s not an ideal solution. I never messed with it…there were things I didn’t like about the Howa so it’s gone and I have a Tikka Superlite that I’m running instead
Ryan Muckenhirn. This is a fake name. His mother's maiden name is Winchester. His real, name before he changed it, is Jaeger Ryan Muckheyminsturm. His DOB is 04/01/unknown. Who is this guy?
I have a mini howa set up extremely similar to this, 20in 6.5 Grendel with a B&C stock, 2-12 scope on top, sub 6.5lb works great for light plinking and deer inside 300yds and is super easy to carry all day
I've been looking at the Howa mini actions as well. I sent Jefferson Outdoors an email inquiring about bottom metal availability. They've been out of stock for quite a while and I'm not going to be happy with the factory bottom plastic/detachable magazine. So if I can't get the bottom metal I might not get the rifle.
@@scotteger6271 watch their site semi regularly, the bottom metal comes in stock in little trickles. I myself need atleast one hinged bottom metal myself, last time I saw them in stock was 2-3 weeks ago
Thanks for the heads up on the bottom metal! Definitely an upgrade. I’m building this rifle in 6.5 grendel. Barrel cut to 18.5” and cerakoted burnt bronze.
Speaking of versatile cartridges, it would be really interesting to see y’all do a cartridge talk on 357 magnum. From the number of handguns and nifty rifles it suits to fit it would be good to hear more about its history and famed do all defense/hunting uses.
Regarding the talk about Hornady lead balloon cartridges…300 PRC isn’t going anywhere. While the 7 PRC is also impressive…I just have a special place in my heart for 30 cal magnums. Like many other Americans. I just think the 300 PRC was a slow burn out of the gate when it was released. It’s definitely been picking up recently and most big box stores can’t keep the rifles on the shelves since they sell so quick.
I picked up a Howa Mini Carbon, like this, but in 6.5 Grendel. It is absurdly light and ergos are not bad at all. Just needs a paint job, as I can't stand the carbon weave look, personally. Pronghorn hunting has entered my mind a few times as something it would be great for.
Now if only Jefferson Outdoors will make some bottom metal for the Howa SuperLite! That would allow a similar rifle to the one Ryan is showing but in 6.5CM, 308, 7mm-08.
Put together nearly the same rifle but in Grendel. Same Stocky’s carbon stock, same Jefferson bottom metal, 20” lightweight Howa barreled action. As interested as I am in the 6ARC, I’m invested in Grendel at this point and don’t think I can justify switching for the minuscule improvements inside 400yds.
They spoke about affordability. remember that the Savage Axis II comes in 6mm ARC now as well and I think that is under $400 at most retailers. If you are looking for a hunting rifle that you and your kids can both use please consider this cartridge setup.
I have the 6 ARC in two target (heavy) rifles (bolt and gas). Both of them are tack drivers with the same hand loads. The only reason I haven't built a rifle like Ryan's is I already have a Kimber Hunter rifle in 243 that I like am happy with. If I didn't have the hunting 243 and got to pick from 243 or 6 ARC, I would get get the 6ARC without thinking about it. The 6 ARC has been stupid accurate for me. Ryan's rifle is a home run.
The 6mm arc in an AR is amazing. I’d argue a great dmr round but just great for recoil to capacity to function. It’s fun to mag dump. My 20” barrel is arguably just as controllable or more so than my 16” 5.56 upper
Ryan, I didn't hear you mention the Bolt Action Only loads available from Hornady. The bolt gun loads are not that far behind the 243 Win but will blow up your AR if you mix them.
I’ve been on the Howa Carbon Stalker in 6mm ARC bandwagon for a long time. Throw a short, lightweight can on the end like the OCL Hydrogen K and you’re golden.
Not sure if Ryan will see this but I love the Barnes bullets for hunting just as much as him. That being said I would try and get the 80 gr CX to shoot out of the 6arc vs the TTSX. A number of my own tests have shown in that grain weight and diameter out of the .243 the CX gets a fairly consistent 150 yards of extra range with useful expansion on the bullets at the same muzzle velocity.
I didn’t know about the bottom metal option for the minis, now I have to find one of those probably a Grendel. I love my carbon stalker (7-08) but I couldn’t make myself like that trigger. Timney makes a drop in for it!
Love the 6 arc shot two big up north white tails with it last year can't go wrong low recoil running the hornady black 105 gr BTHP. They didn't go 20 both of them
I have the 6mm arc in ar15 have the 6.5 creedmoor in ar10 and the 6.5 prc in bolt action love them all can't pick a favorite from a 100 yards to 300 yards they all work and drop deer the best past 300 6.5 prc all the way
25:59 the reason the barrel length doesn't make as big of a difference for the accuracy of the 6 ARC is because of the small powder capacity. The less powder, the less things affect it
For Hornady, the 30 TC, 300 RCM and 325 RCM were lead balloons. Their descendants, the 6.5 Creedmoor (30 TC case) and 6.5 PRC (RCM case) did well, though. The big problem with the RCM's is that they were not quite as fast as the WSM series. Every comparison that I read at the time basically said "The WSM is faster, no need for the RCM". The RCM's fed better and, using Hornady Magic Propellants, worked better out of 20" barrels, but handloaders could not match that at the time.
I love my 6arc AR. Built it with an Aero enhanced upper and 18” Proof Research stainless match barrel w/ +1 rifle length gas block. It runs beautifully suppressed and unsuppressed. It is a hammer on hogs and coyotes and is everything I wanted. Gonna be handloading this weekend now that i have brass and excited to get some lighter weight (than factory) bullets loaded and see how it does on bobcats and coyotes then. Paired with my Iray thermal it’s amazing!
#10minutetalk Hopefully Ryan films 🎥 his hunts with this rifle. Would love to see more 6 ARC bolt gun hunting videos. Trying to see how well it works on critters like whitetail deer, mule deer, hogs etc.
I have a stock savage axis in 6arc with a 18" heavy threaded barrel, 7.5 twist, around 7lb and it is a sweet shooter. Very comfortable to shoot for long periods of time. Not a nice as the howa set up but its a similar set up. I'll be upgrading to vortex glass once i make up my mind on which scope fits my needs.
Ive bounced around getting an ARC in a bolt gun but I've had a Grendel since it came out and already have multiple AR's and a Howa bolt gun... I run the 100gr ttsx and I've killed lots of deer and a metric crap load of hogs. One day I'll make the leap to the ARC because it really is a phenomenal cartridge. Great video as always keepem coming guys!!!
I built an Aero Precision gas gun with a 20" bbl and I threw a can on it. I have 9 other gas guns all in different calibers and the 6 ARC is one of my favorites. It makes 1000 yards almost easy. The low recoil allows you to watch the bullet impact and adjust accordingly. For now Hornady and HSM are the only ammo manufacturers I know of. HSM has 3 or 4 options to choose from.
I don't know who could relay this, but if vortex sees this, inform Ryan of the 80gr badlands bulldozer. For the application of this rifle I think he would be hard pressed to find a better bullet to his tastes
I still prefer the 6.5 Grendel over the 6 ARC. We have extensive deer kills on both. and I can say without question watching deer go down inside 300 the DEER seem to go down MUCH harder with the Grendel and 123SST bullets. I believe 100% like ryan says frontal impact diameter not mathematically quantifiable but boy on the ground reports I will tell you the 123SST 6.5 IS NO JOKE on deer boys!!!
This is 100% the gun I asked hawa about last year! Glad they finally started making mini 1500 in 6 arc, hopefully the ruger American follows suit. It's already set up for it, just needa a barrel
108 ELDM out of a 6ARC and that 22" barrel and you've got sufficient velocity for expansion past 600 yards (at my elevation). He's totally understating how capable the cartridge is, especially for guys who would benefit from more trigger time
I just bought a heavy 20" barrel Howa Mini action in 6mm ARC and I'm excited to get my hands on it after the background check is approved. I view it as the perfect light weight deer/varmint gun. The Ruger American Gen 2 is also a good option.
BCA is coming out with a AR15/Lever gun hybrid that will likely be offered in Grendel and/or ARC so you aren't actually to far off on that misunderstanding Mark
I just got mine in today. Out of the box it weighed 4 lbs. 15 oz. I'm going to put my Trijicon that weighs 13.4 oz on it, so I'm hoping it will come in right around 6 lbs. give or take a hair. Rings will be DNZ one piece game reaper. I can't put it down. I'm falling in love, LOL!
You can get good velocity with 22-26 inch barrel 103g+ 2700 or more. 26-27g varget fun prs rig for those longer barrels Short barrels under 200mph CFE223 or Leverevolution Lots of prs shooter are running 2700-2750 these days in 6GT 6BR and 6dasher.
What about a 6.8 SPC II with a 85-110 gr hunting bullet from a 18-20” barrel? I know the 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendal both out perform it past 250 yards. But for a 25-250 yard deer rifle with a max range of 300 would it be better suited due to it’s larger .277 diameter bullet. I think you can get 2800 FPS with a 85gr from a 20” barrel. I really wanted to have Melvin Forbes build me one but I could not afford and now Melvin has retired.
The description of criteria for a stick rifle here was either very OCD, homoerotic, or German. I can't tell which. This next gen cartridge war is a bit like Genesis vs Super Nintendo for me. My picks: 6.5 Grendel : Howa 20" 6 ARC : AR-15 18" No way I'm sending 6 ARC repeatedly through a pencil barrel.
I have been wanting a 6 arc ever since they came out. The only that has kept me from it has been ammo availability. I wish somebody(hornady) would start making varmint loads for it considering they already do for the 243 big brother and some more deer sized game hunting loads for us non-handloaders. Im very happy to see the cartridge gaining traction and hearing somebody so knowledgeable on the subject talking it up only makes me want one even more
I’ve never clicked a video so fast. This is essentially the build I’ve been planning, but yours is honestly a little heavier than what I envision. I’d go with a shorter barrel and I want to make my own custom carbon stock. With the mini action and those mods I think it’s not unrealistic to build a sub-5lb hunting rifle. I just wish Vortex sold a super lightweight fixed power scope to put on it like the Leupold 4x rimfire.
6 ARC is the best version of this cartidge type. The 6.5 grendal never liked. you want more frontal area than 6 ARC. Go 6.8spc, 6.8s numbers are better then the Grendal till 350 yards and for hunting deer your already below the 1000ft-lbs mark energy at 300~325. The 6.8 is also better for gas guns as the lack of material on bolt face is the weak point on the larger case head.
Ryan should consider running a hammer bullet instead of a ttsx. Much better low velocity performance. 6 ARC leaving around 3000 will easily perform beyond 400 with those bullets.
Why not just go 243? Much easier to find ammo, brass, bullets, and undoubtedly cheaper rifle. If your reloading anyway, load the 243 down for less recoil. Or hell load down the 308, or just get a recoil pad and a muzzle brake. That one caliber alone can take just about anything big or small, and not give up on the big like the 6 will. Cool gun, but don't see the need for one.
powders for 6mm arc lt32, n133, cf223, lever revolution. you can easily load 29-30 grains powder. Very very cost effective for reloading. Biggest fear during dear hunting is a bear or Elk comes into range and do I.
From Hornady, the 300 PRC has what our military was asking, or at least the important stuff in that range of a cartridge. And, Ryan, nice rifle/cartridge setup.
I'm sold on the cartridge and the rifle. Small game , varmit and deer out to 300 yards. Im an avid handloader and familiar with 6ppc. This type of cartridge design hit way above their head in killing power , accuracy and ballistic performance. I would handload 85 gr. to 100gr. hunting bullets .
It needs a sling…. Maybe Turner Biothane GP if feeling modern classic aesthetic, Langolis Biothane Rhodesian if feeling scoutish , or Magpul RL if feeling budget.
I found myself in much the same place and 3 years ago I built a 6.5 Grendel in an AR. I have ammo, dies, brass, factory ammo, spare barrels and bolts so no switching out now to 6 Arc since I am already this invested in 6.5 Grendel.
Its clear that Howa is on a media marketing push with the Carbon Stalker... All the firearms channels just so happen to all be doing reviews around the same time? Ultimate reloader, Vortex Nation, Ron Spomer, etc
I love my 6.5 swede But i have noticed that a almost always take my grendel on hunts. With the suppressor its so mild. I think the 6 arc overlap is to big for me to get one. But a 22arc is a different animal.
Ryan, In your research for this rifle did you come across anyone who makes a custom action that you can get a bolt lock feature. Defiance stopped offering their 3 position safety and i haven’t found any others.
