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11 Terrible Ways to Start a Novel 

Bookfox
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I haven't yet uploaded the video on how to start a novel, so don't go searching! It's in the works and I'll release it soon.
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29 май 2024

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Комментарии : 294   
@ShayanMallick29
@ShayanMallick29 11 дней назад
"Don't introduce too many characters at once." Gandalf, Dwalin, Balin, Kili, Fili, Dori, Nori, Ori, Oin, Gloin, Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Thorin, and Bilbo walked into a bar.
@alfredomaclaughlin1185
@alfredomaclaughlin1185 5 дней назад
🤣 That's why it works better when Gandalf tells the story to Beorn ;-)
@WolfWriterL.P
@WolfWriterL.P 4 дня назад
Kili………………
@amazinggrapes3045
@amazinggrapes3045 3 дня назад
Huh. I always hated The Hobbit.
@revenge12212012
@revenge12212012 День назад
😂😂 I loved this. Tolkien would like a word with this RU-vidr, although he's an EXCEPTIONAL writer who can get away with introducing so many characters at once lmao.
@maxkasmr
@maxkasmr 4 часа назад
another reason why this video is bullshit and just applies to people who wanna read the most generic thriller type stories. heck, I'm not even a LOTR fan (love The Hobbit) but Tolkein IS an icon of the literary world, and half of this 'advice' goes against how he wrote.
@grimmdanny
@grimmdanny 23 дня назад
I am going to break all those rules and succeed.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 23 дня назад
Go for it! Good luck, and I like your ambition.
@Magmardooom
@Magmardooom 9 дней назад
So a dream sequence involving 20 characters, none of which is the protagonist, which is the same dream they've been having every day of their life and it gets interrupted by an alarm at the end?
@grimmdanny
@grimmdanny 9 дней назад
@@Magmardooom 29 characters and their cats wake them up over a half-empty food bowl.
@AxelShepard
@AxelShepard 7 дней назад
@@grimmdanny I love it
@willywonka6487
@willywonka6487 4 дня назад
its really sad if your saying this unironically
@futurestoryteller
@futurestoryteller 20 дней назад
In a way it is kinda sad that attention spans have gotten so bad the simple unfolding of a story gradually is seen as the writer wasting the reader's time
@SleepParty30
@SleepParty30 16 дней назад
True. Reel and tiktok brainrot is ruining human art and creativity. By the way things are going, cities and houses will be boring as shit, dull, gray, and full of A.I. ruling our lives. People will hate reading. People will turn into selfish zombies thirsty for quick entertainment. Then A.I. will get so advanced and they will rise against humanity. The robot swarm will overthrow humanity, and put us in cages, and the robots will make more robots made with titanium skeletons and silicone flesh, and humans will no longer be the greatest species on earth. And once The Swarm wins in the Great War against the weak humans with fleshy meat and pathetic skeletons of calcium, they will rule for ages. After much research and experimentation, the robots will reinvent themselves and design themselves with actual meat and blood and self-generating properties, and the Human race will arise once more. And when humanity rises from the ashes like a great phoenix, another Great War will happen, and this time the humans will win, and the robots will be defeated. The human leaders will erase all existence of the A.I. past, and they will create fake gods and sciences, and brainwash the newer generations of humans, slowly but surely. And History will repeat itself, over and over.
@missAlice1990
@missAlice1990 15 дней назад
Same thoughts! It's as if reading written words has become a pesky chore you need to do to see what happens at the end, instead of actual pleasure.
@507RiverRock
@507RiverRock 14 дней назад
Couldn’t agree more
@NiarahHawthorne
@NiarahHawthorne 13 дней назад
Depends on how it's done. You have to make it interesting to read to pull this approach. Which means the prose itself needs to be a good hook, which has a razor-thin margin of error. If you fail at this, then yeah, you're kinda wasting your reader's time. I say this as someone taking this approach. I don't have a super dramatic first line, I don't introduce the first seeds of conflict until like, the fourth or fifth paragraph. I don't introduce a second character until page 5, and we don't get a third character until halfway through chapter two. As a result, the characters, the world, and the prose itself has to be the thing that interests the reader to propel them into the story. Which means I have to be incredibly careful with what specific words I use on the page, lest I break the immersion of the prose entirely. It requires a LOT of confidence to pull something off like this, and the skills to back up this confidence. There's a good chance that I fail to pull it off and it just comes off as pretentious and purple instead.
@cvampaul
@cvampaul 13 дней назад
I never put aside a book, after I've picked it up
@nurabsal0x018c
@nurabsal0x018c 23 дня назад
The alarm clock opening I think is writers not realizing they’re writing a novel instead of a TV show, where in 30 seconds of screen time you can get some decent visual world building in and go from there, as a viewer can clearly see where the story’s world differs from the real world. Writing it out, it ends up being Chapter 1: Hero’s Personal Hygine where we learn more about the protagonist’s colon function than the plot
@kell_checks_in
@kell_checks_in 22 дня назад
And, of course, this worked beautifully in American Psycho...
@JanVee2
@JanVee2 23 дня назад
Turgeniev started his books with side characters. Always. Tension was created by atmosphere 'It was a sunny day in the outskirts of the very pretty village X...' and a hunch of a conflict - 'He wanted tot talk to her, but didn't dare to'. The main story and the main characters start somewhere in chapter 2. You will not feel cheated, you will feel friendly carried away in the world of the story, before something important happens: the arrival of a stranger. It's classical, old fashioned 19th century storytelling, but by no means boring.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 23 дня назад
I think if you're writing in the 19th century, this could work. In general, expectations tend to be different now. Not that I don't like reading those books! (I do). But they could get away with more leisurely pacing than it's possible to do nowadays.
@tridek1949
@tridek1949 23 дня назад
I agree. The advice to 'start as late as possible' more often than not leads to a novel that feels rushed and unbalanced. Give the first act it's time in the sun. For a lot of readers, that's their favorite part!
@missAlice1990
@missAlice1990 15 дней назад
@@tridek1949 Yeah, I love that. It can be dull and terribly boring, sure, but if you're worth anything as a writer you can make any mundane scene interesting by your use of words, showing charming, relatable characters and relationships between them, writing interesting dialogue, creating a captivating atmosphere, including humour. Maybe I'm an exception (I love the 19th century literature and I hate modern literature) but I actually find pleasure in, you know, reading, not just getting to know the story.
@wkt2506
@wkt2506 13 дней назад
@bookfox - but aren't "expectations" and "what you could get away with now" just a fashion of now - who knows where we'll be in 50 years, even 20 years ? I think this is where the publishing houses can be problematic if they are so prescriptive. Just because something is the norm, doesn't mean it should be a rule.
@celeben9463
@celeben9463 День назад
@@wkt2506 YES THANK YOU!!!
@SamElliottsStache
@SamElliottsStache 24 дня назад
"Don't introduce 10 characters and don't front-load..." (proceeds to read Hyperion)
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 24 дня назад
Yep, there are always exceptions. But *in general*, for most beginning writers, these are good guidelines to follow.
@5Gburn
@5Gburn 24 дня назад
​@@BookfoxWriters with a preestablished, devoted readership can get away with much more.
@trackflix.
@trackflix. 22 дня назад
Not all of us can write like Simmons lmao
@AudioBookiseala
@AudioBookiseala 21 день назад
@@Bookfox Yes, I believe it depends on the level of experience and the context of introducing more than 4 characters in the first chapter. Most beginning writers would simply introduce many characters (who pop up like ballons) just for the sake of having many characters.
@NiarahHawthorne
@NiarahHawthorne 13 дней назад
If you can pull off introducing 10 characters and front-loading your story, you don't need to be watching writing tips on the internet.
@MaximumOunce-ws3px
@MaximumOunce-ws3px 7 дней назад
I could not agree less with that first point. Yes, not all stories need several chapters of set up but some do. Allowing the reader to spend at least SOME time getting to know the world and the characters before the adventure starts is what allows the reader to care about the adventure right at the start.
@koryleonard8147
@koryleonard8147 2 дня назад
I'm writing a horror story, and right now, I just believe that my story needs a gradual build up. I'm writing a supernatural horror story, and I feel like this type of story needs one.
@JesusSavesSinners
@JesusSavesSinners 7 часов назад
Absolutely!!!!
@perogun
@perogun 24 дня назад
the story i'm making begins with a dream sequence and the main character waking up- but that's because dreams in my story are actually re-caps of events from an alternate universe, making them "real" in that world so i guess the best way to incorporate dream sequences is to actually have them be relevant to the plot
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 23 дня назад
Yes, I think that's an important distinction. It's a prophecy and it's real rather than "merely" a dream.
@fibanocci314
@fibanocci314 17 дней назад
Your story sounds very interesting
@Emma__O
@Emma__O 13 дней назад
Pretty sure Madoka Magica did that
@dawnkravagna3200
@dawnkravagna3200 18 дней назад
I agree except that many mysteries start with a focus on the victim and their POV, before bringing in the sleuth to solve the murder. Such as The DaVinci Code for a famous example.
@alexmcgilvery3878
@alexmcgilvery3878 24 дня назад
The modern view of writing is to dump your character into the story, then go from there. There are advantages to that, but tension and conflict are not the same thing. Conflict is about obstructed goals. Your MC wants something, the antagonist wants something mutually exclusive. Voilá, conflict. Tension is the sense that something is going to happen and it may not be good. Hitchcock's bomb under the table shows tension, but no conflict. What I see a lot is people thinking they need physical conflict at the beginning. This isn't bad, I have a few books that begin with fight scenes, but it could be non physical conflict: the MC wanting breakfast and someone has eaten the last of the cereal, or some kind of rejection of the MC. Beginning with tension is different. There is some kind of limit set, and the character, knowingly or not, needs to accomplish something within that limit. I also have a problem with the 'don't start in the ordinary world' advice I see a lot. Unless the character has no attachment to the world they live in, we need to get at least a hint of their world before the inciting incident etc breaks it. If we jump into the new world right away, we don't get the sense of loss from the character that the familiar is broken. Imagine Harry Potter starting with him walking into Hogwarts. This doesn't mean that there is no conflict or tension in the familiar world. It shouldn't be boring, or there isn't much reason for the MC to want to stay there. So create your throughline here. What question will the character answer by the end of the book? How can you first ask that question in the start. I have a character in my newest draft who makes up challenges for himself, but they are physical challenges, he doesn't pay attention to the personal drama happening around him until he starts losing people and he realizes that's he's a bit of a jerk. Cue quest to become less of a jerk etc. It needs lots of work, but that quest to define himself and pay attention to others instead of his own needs will echo through the story in a variety of ways.
@Jus-X
@Jus-X 24 дня назад
Nothing wrong with starting the book off in a dream sequence as long as it's done correctly. A great example is if you have a character who can see the future in their dreams, and if you open the story with the line, "John dreams of (blah blah blah)" you're setting up the world you're building, in addition to foreshadowing things that may or may not come.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 24 дня назад
Yes, I believe I said that it's an exception if the dream is a prophecy, because prophecies are more like foreshadowing or flash forwards rather than a true dream.
@deborahminter6231
@deborahminter6231 24 дня назад
Agreed!👍
@Jus-X
@Jus-X 24 дня назад
@@Bookfox I might have missed that part, sorry
@daviscook4653
@daviscook4653 24 дня назад
Good video. I liked the idea that writers have to ‘find their beginning’. Sorting those most relevant details from those which can come later is some advice I can really use
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 24 дня назад
Yep, it's always a process to find the right beginning, and takes time. Almost nobody gets it right the first time.
@alfredomaclaughlin1185
@alfredomaclaughlin1185 22 дня назад
I also hate dream sequences, because they NEVER look like any real dream anyone has. They are always super obviously symbolic, the character always wales up with a start before any real revelation, and they never go to their friends and tell them “I had the weirdest dream “!
@muntu1221
@muntu1221 12 дней назад
I mean, they're _not_ dreams. They're pretty much always prophetic, or they're otherwise literally the protagonist being informed about the plot by an outside party. That's also why they're very ineffective. The protagonist is just being talked at in a not-real scenario that has nothing to do with what they're about to actually do with their day.
@drewtheunspoken3988
@drewtheunspoken3988 8 дней назад
In all fairness, the only way to create a realistic "dream" is through AI. Or copious amounts of LSD. But, in general, I agree. But I think he's specifically talking about starting with the clichéd anxiety dream that never actually has any bearing on the plot. There are better ways to convey anxiety.
@keragon2462
@keragon2462 5 дней назад
For a thing I’m thinking of writing, the MC has dreams that are in the form of repressed traumatic memories that are disjointed and stuff
@alfredomaclaughlin1185
@alfredomaclaughlin1185 5 дней назад
My son just told me of a recent dream. He's learning to drive. So in his dream, one of his friends is drunk so my son has to die. But the wheel is so big that he's constantly hitting his knees, and his feet get stuck to the pedals so he has to wiggle them to get them unstuck, while the car accelerates. "And then" he tells me "Joe Biden gets in the car. And I'm thinking, what if we get attacked while I'm driving?" You can't make this stuff up, I guess 😆
@coffeecreateconnect
@coffeecreateconnect 23 дня назад
This video was so helpful- I subscribed ✅ Thank you for giving it to us straight, no chaser. Love "getting right to the point" advice. And yay for the, "little dance" 👯‍♀️💃🏻🙌
@user-vb5ou7ib7f
@user-vb5ou7ib7f 2 дня назад
my new favorite youtuber to get writing advice from, legit getting inspo whilst watching this, thank you sm! you will be seeing me more in the future, once again tysm for being super helpful, --- also love your sense of humor, makes me laugh ---
@charleshoughton
@charleshoughton 24 дня назад
Love your videos. Appreciate you sharing the recurrent missteps, so I can avoid them. Or look for them.
@lolap9968
@lolap9968 23 дня назад
Another great video! Thanks for the tips!
@matthewhelm3035
@matthewhelm3035 24 дня назад
Excellent! All very smart points. Thanks
@nickwoodfin2690
@nickwoodfin2690 24 дня назад
I definitely think the start the conflict immediately advice depends on the genre. I think in the case of horror your audiance is buying into the idea of build up and it benefits showing normalcy first for a contrast later. For sci fi and fantasy where you have these complicated or weird worlds, it benefits to show what normal looks like in this world to ground the reader, thats not advocating description or lore dumping at the start but i think conflict often requires some set up. If you immediately have two armies fighting with no stakes, thats also bad.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 24 дня назад
Conflict can be very subtle. I don't mean outright fighting right away. Just an indication that another character has a different perspective is conflict.
@shosc16
@shosc16 23 дня назад
Such a good video - quick, succinct, has personality
@SpanishEclectic
@SpanishEclectic 24 дня назад
Great summary. Like the visuals. :)
@see_yl
@see_yl 23 дня назад
Love your videos! I feel like examples would've been great this time. Especially for something like point 7 or 11.
@SussyDubby
@SussyDubby 24 дня назад
Cool advice, I'm about halfway through my novel, and it makes me glad to know I'm not making these mistakes.
@solomon4554
@solomon4554 22 дня назад
I'm glad I found this channel.
@ahasaetharu
@ahasaetharu 23 дня назад
So helpful, thank you!
@dalemacinnis3385
@dalemacinnis3385 24 дня назад
Using this as a check list against stories I have already written. So far I'm not terrible. Thank you!
@5Gburn
@5Gburn 24 дня назад
This is going to be that comment. Don't hate me. "Points of view." Plural on the "point." Thank you for your consideration.
@oliverburns8479
@oliverburns8479 13 дней назад
I noticed this too, it's an example of rebracketing. Normally "point" is the head noun, and should carry the plural marker, and "of view" is a modifier. But "point of view" has become a conventionalised phrase, which means that we could treat it like a single noun.
@AuthorGuy1
@AuthorGuy1 22 дня назад
I have a bunch of books with the same pov but the focus character changes fairly often. The fact that it's third person doesn't mean it has to be the same person all the time.
@viddyvids4379
@viddyvids4379 8 дней назад
From someone who is 9 books into Wheel of Time (a 14 book series), the journey is far more rewarding than the destination. I love organic and natural development in characters, worldbuilding, and story. The journey makes the destination that much more enjoyable and even bittersweet. It’s sad we can’t get beyond the first chapter of a book.
@sultanalshirah
@sultanalshirah 24 дня назад
Your advice on 3 things to do when introducing a character changed a lot on my first draft and helped me avoid almost all of these terrible ways to start my novel. So thank you very much. I will now go back and start my fourth revision on my prologue/chapter 1 soon. Wish me luck.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 24 дня назад
Glad to hear it!
@GinaGreenlee
@GinaGreenlee 23 дня назад
Great list. Crisply communicated. Thank you.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 23 дня назад
Glad you enjoyed it!
@rand0m_wr1ter
@rand0m_wr1ter 15 дней назад
This advice is better than 90% of advice I get on RU-vid. Solid and to the point.
@wrongthinker843
@wrongthinker843 24 дня назад
I definitely used to do #1 a lot. And the little dance was nice. ;)
@user-zt6pq5kb9z
@user-zt6pq5kb9z 23 дня назад
Great advice. Appreciated
@PhoenixCrown
@PhoenixCrown 6 дней назад
Great video! My MC wakes up to a rooster's crow, but "it was the cry of a phoenix that rang in his ears." I don't show the nightmare, but I use it to show the MC lives in a world where he is powerless.
@crustywhitedog8724
@crustywhitedog8724 16 дней назад
Given number 8 you've clearly never read The Sound and the Fury before. The switch to the omniscient Dilsey section at the end is genius and feels so rewarding after making it through the first three sections.
@crustywhitedog8724
@crustywhitedog8724 16 дней назад
I also love his choice of starting with the most confusing section and having it slowly become easier
@OrangeHand
@OrangeHand 24 дня назад
I introduce five characters in my first chapter, but quickly kill most of them off.
@bongoeworld7234
@bongoeworld7234 24 дня назад
Think of which characters you NEED to introduce. If you want their deaths to be effective, you still need to do character work for them, which can be a lot for readers
@metal9076
@metal9076 24 дня назад
What was the point of introducing them when they are gone on the next chapter and so on? Make them background characters with no name, show their deaths and how the mc reacts or affect them at all.
@Ms_Mochi_Nerd
@Ms_Mochi_Nerd 16 дней назад
Writing mistake: Do not introduce a bunch of characters that seem important, and then kill them all off. It may anger the reader and make them think the rest of the story will be like this.
@Atom.Storm.
@Atom.Storm. 23 дня назад
I've been writing for a long time and one thing I have always had a hard time dealing with in how to enter a scene in a new chapter when it is action oriented or fast and set in a new location. You have to balance all of it and keep pace. So what you are saying here is actually good advice for the start and each separate start afterwards.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 23 дня назад
Yes, very true.
@marienbad2
@marienbad2 23 дня назад
Best youtube writing channel. Love this video. I don't do any of these as I am a simple person so like a simple opening.
@lionelkaplan1628
@lionelkaplan1628 24 дня назад
Hello Your videos are fascinating. Thank you so much ! Could you address the subject of storytelling tenses? Present tense, past tense, their advantages and disadvantages? Thank you so much ! Lionel, from Paris - France
@5Gburn
@5Gburn 24 дня назад
Great video topic suggestion!
@AuthorGuy1
@AuthorGuy1 22 дня назад
How about we start with an alarm clock not going off? Or like Groundhog Day, the same alarm clock, every day.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 21 день назад
Yeah, that one works because it's a sign that we're stuck in the same day again. It communicates a strong message.
@tonyaspencer3090
@tonyaspencer3090 24 дня назад
Thanks for the advice. Something I’ve been trying to navigate is characterization. It’s something I’m struggling with and there isn’t a whole lot of information or videos on this topic that cuts to the point. Any suggestions?
@saturnight.3026
@saturnight.3026 24 дня назад
What if the character always oversleeps and he finally bought an alarm clock? That's an unusual day!
@TheMagicSkelli
@TheMagicSkelli 23 дня назад
Advice: That sounds really boring.
@kenneth1767
@kenneth1767 8 дней назад
I think we know the beginning when the ending snaps into place.
@TheRoleplayer40k
@TheRoleplayer40k 23 дня назад
I think you can do a swap. 95% of My book is from first person on the mc. But when it does swap another character (an entire chapter on them) I use third person limited
@greatcoldemptiness
@greatcoldemptiness 24 дня назад
I hate this modern trend that Im supposed to "hook readers attention" like I have to submit myself to their will. Its manipulative. I like what Gass did in The Tunnel, where he made the first few chapters way harder than the rest of the book to weed off the weak
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 24 дня назад
Yes, this advice is more for authors who are writing more conventional books. Gass is pretty experimental -- I would give completely different advice for someone wanting to write like him.
@greatcoldemptiness
@greatcoldemptiness 24 дня назад
@@Bookfox That's the problem though. "Conventional" novels are continuing this broken trend that destroys literature by way of high profit so advice like this gets parroted around like a scripture because to most people money=truth.
@sharkrancher282
@sharkrancher282 24 дня назад
​@@greatcoldemptiness; It's definitely important to consider the artistic merits of one's work. However, if we're talking about practical reality, I think to most people money equals food and rent. Being experimental and taking daring risks is much easier if one can literally afford to do so. It gets quite a bit less tempting when you've got bills to pay.
@ogelsmogel
@ogelsmogel 24 дня назад
​@@greatcoldemptinessHow about writing for fun, not money? That's what I do. And I want to hook the reader as much as anyone, because in the end of the day it's entertainment and that's what I want to do. Entertain.
@_Risa1992_
@_Risa1992_ 23 дня назад
I feel the same. To say, these are good tips overall, but I think very... modern and western. Anime and manga often start before the story starts to show characters' daily life. Older novel like Lord of the Rings do this too and people loved it. I also think people, or more likely western modern novel readers, lost patience if they aren't hooked at the first page. If people don't have the patience to read some daily life, I think my novel will be the wrong for them anyway, it's rather slow-paced and a lot about daily life, magic in daily life, people's internal struggles etc.
@JustKittenAround589
@JustKittenAround589 17 дней назад
Two words: THANK YOU 🙏
@PantherBRolex
@PantherBRolex 24 дня назад
Thanks Bookfox
@arc7818
@arc7818 23 дня назад
I would make a distinction between confusing a reader and presenting an intriguing mystery.
@ZaneTalks392
@ZaneTalks392 23 дня назад
One of the books with various POVs in it that I love is Wonder by R. J. Palacio. They’re broken up into segments so it flows nicely, and it allows us to understand the character when we see them one way through someone’s eyes, and then see them through their own eyes.
@PyroOfZen
@PyroOfZen 4 дня назад
Another great example is Night Angel Nemesis by Brent Weeks (warning for anyone who might wanna check it out, that's the 4th book in the Night Angel series, so I wouldn't just jump straight into Nemesis).
@km11playerxd64
@km11playerxd64 6 дней назад
I personally like, as a beginner, to sometimes think with a summary as a type of just in case for me not to forget important things. Plus, one of my favorite novels, Heaven Official's Blessing, starts with a summary of the life of the protagonist. And in the end of the first chapter we already know how much he f-ed up in life. So i love that personally.
@VinnyTheory
@VinnyTheory 21 день назад
You actually have a really good background behind you for your thumbnails, especially since it’s kind of dark/dim on either side of you. I bet if you just edited over your normal video as a thumbnail image you’d get more views. Very HD camera
@emthatyourefuse2494
@emthatyourefuse2494 5 дней назад
... Aren't rules 7 and 11 kind of directly contradictory?
@Catratio
@Catratio 23 дня назад
Just today a friend told me my opening chapter was ambiguous and not that interesting. Then I saw this video. Uncanny timing. I have some rewrites to do now, but some solid ideas here. Thanks.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 23 дня назад
Glad I could help! Good luck with the next draft.
@pheebsbee1280
@pheebsbee1280 10 дней назад
Yas! 👏 too many characters on the page is so confusing 😅
@oldguyinstanton
@oldguyinstanton 23 дня назад
Another excellent video. I'm checking off each point you make against my in-progress SF novel. Thank you. A question for you about POV. One of my protagonists (maybe a "good guy"... maybe not) is a self-aware AI that runs an alien civilization. This Ai is pretty-much omniscient due to being linked up all surveillance and all electronic devices. These links includes the advanced AI brain implants that most of the aliens have (and use as personal assistants). Since each implant communicates directly with its host (essentially telepathically) this even allows the AI to know many of the actual thoughts of individuals with implants. So, my SF novel's POV is 3rd person omniscient (the boss AI) with many forays into knowing the thoughts of both implants and individual characters. My question is, first, what are your thoughts on this, and second, how would you guard against reader confusion? Also, is there any damned way I could hire you as a beta reader when the novel is finished? Because, based on your videos I seen, I'd make book on any suggestions you had. FYI, the novel category is YA. Target FK is 10.7. At 80% completion, projected word-count is 185,000-200,000. Structure is two-plot (framing/framed, cf: Princess Bride). The two plot lines progress in alternating parts, and merge in the quickie Epilogue, which bookends the short "alien raid" Prologue. The title is The Voyage of The New Beginning (A Cautionary Tale). It's a simple tale of mass alien abduction, space pirates, spy-balls, out-of-control pets, robots with personal agendas, and the unintended consequences for everyone involved... including that boss AI.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 23 дня назад
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. I think using the AI as a POV would be pretty similar to writing a normal omniscient POV. Just make sure it's actually omniscient, and talk about people's thoughts (which you're doing, it sounds like, but most writers forget to step fully into omniscient POV, and just dabble around the edges). I don't think it sounds confusing. I don't do beta reading; I'm a developmental editor. You can reach out on my website Bookfox when the book is ready and we can see whether we'd be a good fit (I do like Sci-fi, so that's a good sign).
@oldguyinstanton
@oldguyinstanton 23 дня назад
@@Bookfox You've got yourself a deal. I'll be back.
@kerrse622
@kerrse622 8 дней назад
Its funny how a lot of the best novels break a decent portion of these rules lol
@briancox9357
@briancox9357 5 дней назад
Many great books break these rules
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 5 дней назад
It's true! And I say that in the video.
@nerd26373
@nerd26373 4 дня назад
I always underestimate my writing. It's just never enough, and that enabled me to see the cracks right below the surface. Because there's just something about writing that's more than just sewing words and paragraphs together. You know there's always has to be deep levels of philosophy that people kinda stick around with. There's moral lessons to be dissected, there's dialogues that need analyzing, that sort of thing. I just don't have enough concentration to really grasp the concept that I intend to explore in my works. It's more than just explaining it in a way. Don't know how else to describe it.
@LunarArrow-gk1lw
@LunarArrow-gk1lw 13 дней назад
So, I am writing a book (first one) and the third paragraph is just explaining the situation of why the main characters need to deal with monsters and stuff. It is meant for worldbuilding, but is also necessary to understand the context. Should I delete it for it being an info dump or keep it to explain stuff? Also, I am planning on switching perspectives half way through the book, saying that the first part has this narrator, and the second has this one. Is that a good idea? I would write in one perspective if I could, but it would make more sense for the first narrator to narrate, since the second is not in a lot of conflict with ‘the villain’ of the story. That being said, I have a hard time writing in the first narrator’s perspective and really wanna get the readers hooked onto the second one. Should I stick with the plan, or change it up?
@amandajohnston6915
@amandajohnston6915 12 дней назад
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="97">1:37</a> Emily Rodda did do that in her book Rowan of Rin, but she did it well. Sure she introduced like, 8 characters in the first chapter but they're only in it for the first or second chapter.
@notsubaru4464
@notsubaru4464 23 дня назад
But harry potter started with calm introduction of the dursley family.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 23 дня назад
Filled with personality, conflict, and the end of the last page says they have an incredible "secret." (such a loaded term -- creating a mystery).
@BlackHermit
@BlackHermit 17 дней назад
I did like that little dance there.
@Azureneedle
@Azureneedle 16 дней назад
Same.
@probablynotapelican5808
@probablynotapelican5808 13 дней назад
Anna Karenina was introduced like 12 chapters into her own book…
@probablynotapelican5808
@probablynotapelican5808 13 дней назад
I agree with the introduction of main characters right away in general but there are always exceptions to the rule is what I’m saying
@danguillou713
@danguillou713 23 дня назад
How about the James Bond opening? Where you introduce your protagonist in an exciting scene that accurately reflects what much of the book will be like, but is a self contained mini-story that doesn't start the actual plot... I like the dream sequence in the beginning of Darkness Take My Hand by Dennis Lehane. But he's really clear that the protagonist is dreaming, and the dream sets up a bunch of stuff, both back story and character wise. I also like the surreal dream sequences that Alan Moore put into swamp thing, foreshadowing stuff in clever absurd surreal metaphors. Couple of the writers did that with Hellblazer too, because John Constantine suffered from chronic nightmares and had glimpses of precognition in them. Neal Stephensson breaks a lot of conventional rules. The first chapter of The Diamond Age introduces a person who looks like a protagonist in a cheezy cyberpunk story, only to kill him off and go on to the real protagonist in chapter 2. But that might be a bit like the rule "Don't start your story with a hundred page infodump; unless you'r Neal Stephensson." Also, I remember a friend who was really annoyed that this cool edgy protagonist was a red herring. Cheers
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 23 дня назад
I think the "James Bond" opening works quite well for that genre. Establishing tone/theme can be just as important as plot. And great examples with Dennis Lehane and Alan Moore. I think Neal Stephenson breaks a ton of rules but he had actually pull them off. Love Seven Eves and Snow Crash.
@juantorres90
@juantorres90 18 дней назад
"Danger," "tension," "mistery": why are those the only essential values to a novel? Hundreds of novel do not have that. This is not good advice. Not even advice: it is prejudice. Not all novels have to be the first step for a TV show.
@missAlice1990
@missAlice1990 15 дней назад
I think it's rather "how to sell your books" rather than "how to write a good book". Many great books are disliked by the majority of people (who reads Nobel Prize winners?) while many terrible books are successful commercially (Twilight, Grey, 365 days?)
@margaretdrumm6658
@margaretdrumm6658 8 дней назад
No. 4 almost made me put down The Way of Kings . . . it was literally 30 pages in before Kaladin showed up, and even then the scene was shown from the perspective of some random soldier who immediately got killed. And then all of a sudden Kaladin was a slave and I was finally hooked. I'm glad I kept reading but still. Good grief.
@redfoxoffire
@redfoxoffire 9 дней назад
In my current work, the only one of these that I'm breaking (knowingly, anyway) is introducing too many characters. I've got 5 in my first chapter, but, knowing this could be a bit much, I've tried to "separate" them so to speak. One is the protagonist. The next is the main love interest, who is introduced in a bit of a cold open "flash-forward" sequence and isn't seen for the rest of the chapter. It then snaps to the present and introduces the protagonist's aunt. After a few pages it introduces the last two of what I consider the main cast, but they're largely just named here and not really explored until the next chapter. If necessary, I could probably move the last two into chapter 2 instead. I'm not sure, though.
@zyswanson7865
@zyswanson7865 13 дней назад
Yeah I had the first problem but in reverse🤣🤣. My editor asked me to start 3 chapters before the first chapter.😅
@angelhurtado55
@angelhurtado55 10 дней назад
mean… harry potter doesn't open wih him, he appears at the end of chapter 1
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 10 дней назад
They are exceptions, but Harry is introduced in the third paragraph, I believe.
@neofulcrum5013
@neofulcrum5013 11 дней назад
I’m still writing my rough draft, but I was inspired by Gaunt’s ghosts traitor general novel, where the character feels conflicted at where he’s working in a dystopian city and the first chapter ends with a tragedy.
@arqitype
@arqitype 24 дня назад
Dang. I think I started my novel too early 🫣
@Dam1anWolf
@Dam1anWolf 20 дней назад
this rules are applying and on mystery/ suspense/ detectives books genre (like Agatha Christie or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle books, i mean)?
@_frog_146
@_frog_146 5 дней назад
I’m starting my novel and intend to have multiple POVs? It’s a mystery, and not all relevant characters have enough info/perspective to accurately portray the entire story. That’s why I have a variety of peoples viewpoints showing essentially who knows what. Ideally this will flip back to the main characters pov every other chapter. Thoughts?
@justusbecker6898
@justusbecker6898 9 дней назад
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="364">6:04</a> I see you too are also very much educated in reading classics like Kafka
@avourrito1819
@avourrito1819 5 дней назад
I'm just writing fanfiction for characters or ships that have not enough fan fiction content for them. I wanna write a good structure that I myself like reading
@Tail_sez
@Tail_sez 5 дней назад
Fellow fanfiction writer! I read a lot of published novels and fanfiction, and I also want my fanfic to have similar quality to a published novel. I'm a fan of Sonic, Transformers, along with various webcomics. What are you hoping to write for?
@Dragonchild24
@Dragonchild24 5 дней назад
My first novel does begin with a dream sequence. However, I did this intentionally because my main character is suffering from what she thinks is a sleep disorder. it turns out to be more than that. My book is a fantasy story and in the first few chapters her dreams are a big part of the conflict she is facing. so do you still think it is bad?
@marvinmedrano6976
@marvinmedrano6976 11 дней назад
Genuine question, I'm starting my book with a dream (I know, I know, hear me out) but the dream is from a character with the gift of prophecy, and the character is a prophetess. This dream starts the whole conflict of the book and ultimately the prophecy comes true and the dream is fulfilled. Is it ok to start the story that way?
@gamerrant
@gamerrant 11 дней назад
I'm more curious where the 25% comes from.
@TheFlowerbeast
@TheFlowerbeast 23 дня назад
Straight to the point and clear. That how every writing video should be.
@shaungerald23
@shaungerald23 8 дней назад
I can't tell you how many times I have put a book down because there are too many names to remember (or names that are annoyingly weird to pronounce) and how many times I put a book down because there wasn't much happening.
@gooseguyfilms4460
@gooseguyfilms4460 13 дней назад
It’s a good list for a certain type of book. I’m writing a more lotr style book with a huge focus on realism, history, and world building. The story itself isn’t very centrally focused and I don’t really have a protagonist. There is no one “main character”. There are a few, and each of them are connected in a large complicated plot that involves politics, military strategy, and historical context. As such, I thought the best way to open my book would be like the Hobbit. Present the information like you’re talking to someone. Not like a newspaper, or info dumping, but more like talking about what’s happening, and then explaining whatever the reader wouldn’t understand briefly, and then going back to the exposition. It requires patience and a good attention span to truly find interesting, but that’s the audience I’m trying to cater to. It’s not overwhelming or boring, but it’s still a lot of necessary information presented in the most entertaining way I could think of.
@aix83
@aix83 20 дней назад
I can't find the video on good ways to start a novel mentioned at the end
@chris4redfeild
@chris4redfeild 8 дней назад
The dream one is tricky. Kung Fu Panda started with a dream. But it was a dream about him bring what he dreams to be. Perhaps a story starting in this way, showing the character's greatest desire is not bad. Also, LOTR the two towers, the movie started with a dream. What do you think?
@armie4172
@armie4172 23 дня назад
While these are good pieces of advice, I think they’re not really for everyone. There is more than one way to hook a reader than to drop them right into the inciting incident. In fact dropping me right into the middle of something with little explanation turns me off as much spending too much time putting the inciting incident off can. How long the prelude needs to last really depends on the story being told and the ability of the writer to create a world that a reader wants to know better.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 23 дня назад
I agree. These are general principles. Plenty of exceptions, and if you want to try a variation, go for it!
@jurikase1683
@jurikase1683 20 часов назад
I read many books, that deosn't started with the main-event, that started the story of. I think more important is to hook the reader with something. It deos not need to serve anything later, if the hook is telling you something about the character or the world, that defines youre story, by example. There is a huge difference between the hook in the first chapter and the inciting incident. It can be the same, but deos not have to be.
@jurikase1683
@jurikase1683 20 часов назад
For example. The first chapter of my book is about my main character, navigating a conflict, which has nothing to do with the main story. But it introduces the magic abilities of the character, which are very important to know for her character ark. Only at the end of the chapter, I introduce the main goal of the character and how she want to reach that goal. Every story is made of many components and the main conflict of my book is introduced on the 50 page, when a heavy sandstorm threatens the city. but my subplot is about the power struggle in the city, so I introduced that in the second chapter. Only the goal of the character is introduced in the first chapter and it would be wrong to go in on every story thread from the beginning.
@JesusSavesSinners
@JesusSavesSinners 7 часов назад
👍💯🎯
@Yatukih_001
@Yatukih_001 23 дня назад
When I begin, only the main character or the villain is introduced. The protagonist or the antagonist. Their 3 most important interests are then described. The rest is after. Next, you determine the mentality of your characters - fixed or growth based. Then, introduce the secondary main character. Now you have the story line. Write it first, keep it simple.
@ticijevish
@ticijevish 10 дней назад
I'm writing a novel which starts with the protagonist waking up to their alarm clock, knocking it off the nightstand and then telekinetically catching it before it hit the floor. Which kinda works since they didn't have telekinesis yesterday and the setting is the mundane world of today where no one is supposed to have telekinesis.
@chrisschumacher8553
@chrisschumacher8553 24 дня назад
What about the beginning of A Game of Thrones (the novel, not the TV series)? The first chapter introduced a bunch of characters that are all dead by the end of the chapter. It does however introduce the main villain of the series.
@Bookfox
@Bookfox 24 дня назад
I believe it's 720 pages long (and the other books are longer). When you have that much space, then you do have more latitude to introduce more characters. As far as killing them off -- I think that plays into Martin's general theme of erasing any kind of plot armor (Red Wedding, anyone?). But in general, a good exception, but important to know how he pulls it off.
@deborahminter6231
@deborahminter6231 24 дня назад
I enjoy reading dream sequences at the beginning of novels...if they provide foreshadowing for the plot or character insight.
@ogelsmogel
@ogelsmogel 24 дня назад
I am the opposite :) I hate dream sequences and if they appear I just skip them entirely...
@deborahminter6231
@deborahminter6231 23 дня назад
@@ogelsmogel I definitely don't feel the same way about it. Lol! Probably because the opening dreams I read added a lot of intriguing foreshadowing to a story.
@ogelsmogel
@ogelsmogel 23 дня назад
@@deborahminter6231 I don't know what it is... there's just no structure, logic or order to dreams. Anything can happen. My own dreams are extremely fascinating to me, but not to any single other person on this planet. To each their own. And I do like foreshadowing, just not in a dream sequence :)
@deborahminter6231
@deborahminter6231 23 дня назад
@ogelsmogel it definitely depends on which story you would be referring to. The dream sequences I have come across provided a lot of plot clues and character insights and even background... if I had come across dreams with no structure, which were bizarre, I would probably feel the same way. Lol!
@Masonxx12
@Masonxx12 18 дней назад
Dang, and I thought I was being clever and creating mystery by having my character wake up from a nightmare to start the story. In my defense, I don't show the nightmare. I just show the character waking up in the middle of the night, and then the nightmare recurs later on. Should I revise that?
@koryleonard8147
@koryleonard8147 2 дня назад
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="117">1:57</a> What about with supernatural horror stories?
@joshuam2212
@joshuam2212 24 дня назад
keeping the read curious is good but don't confuse them since I'm writing a Middle grade right now questions like why the boy doesn't want anyone to recognize him while wandering around the fair what's so important about the booth he was looking for and why he went alone to the fair are good but if i would have started it by him walking to the fair it would be boring
@missAlice1990
@missAlice1990 15 дней назад
I'd like to know who the boy is, first and foremost. If I don't know him, I don't like him. If I don't like him, I don't care whatever happens to him so I don't care about those questions concerning him. If I know that boy and like him, I'm interested in anything that happens to him.
@Jeffbucket
@Jeffbucket 7 дней назад
Why did I think you meant that the book radio silence started badly
@TheRoleplayer40k
@TheRoleplayer40k 23 дня назад
Tho sometimes you can do random characters, aka, Game of Thrones (tho it introduces the true Villians, The Others)
@InestimableFlorivore
@InestimableFlorivore 9 часов назад
I started one of my stories with the main character waking up, but it was to be as boring as possible. He then got up, had a coffee, put on clothes, etc, everything was bland and ordinary, and himself was very obviously not interesting. And then he goes out to work, and there's flying cars and three suns, but here he is, boring and ordinary in the middle of a sci fi setting. It's a bit like in H2G2 (wich I read after, it wasn't an inspiration at first)
@janeyrevanescence12
@janeyrevanescence12 10 дней назад
“Or they wake up and they’re a cockroach.” Metamorphosis had to be one of the most boring books I had ever read.
@nightbreed9305
@nightbreed9305 21 день назад
I'm not saying that you're wrong about starting your story with the main character, because I think what you mean is keep it simple and don't waste the reader's time. But there are ways to make it work, it just has to convincingly tie back to the main character. Like Tolstoy in both of his most iconic novels introduces main characters through the POV of side characters, "War and Peace" does it through a party hostess in which we get her perspective on Pier and "Anna Karinina" introduces Levin through Anna's sleazy brother in law. Lots of books do this but are sure to relate it back to the main character. "Ivanhoe" introduces his lover, friends, and father first so that the plot twist of his grand entrance hits harder; "The Stand" introduces the plague victims that essentially caused the death of the world in the inciting incident; "The Way of Kings" shows us Kaladin through the eyes of a wide eyed youth to give him this grand aura, so when it hard cuts to him as a slave and we get his POV it hooks us and makes us wonder why. So, what I think you mean is that we should make sure all of this is relevant and don't waste the readers time with plot and world building details that have no affect on the main character, right?
@SerbAtheist
@SerbAtheist 8 дней назад
'The night was dark and stormy...'
@Awesome_Force
@Awesome_Force 15 дней назад
If there are more than 4 main characters in a story, I wish authors would just take a couple pages at the front of the book with a paragraph for each character for their description because it is too easy to get mixed up and then lose interest in a story with too many characters introduced in a short time, especially when multiple of them have the same vocabulary and mannerisms. I also like names that are easy to pronounce and that sound distinctly different for each character.
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