120K CHF - The Magic Number for Expat Developers in Switzerland

Подписаться 1,4 тыс.

50% 1

Welcome to a video that every software developer planning to immigrate to Switzerland needs to see. We're here to discuss a critical topic: the importance of not underselling yourself when landing your first job in Switzerland's competitive tech industry. It’s common for expats to accept offers below 100K CHF, but is that enough to live comfortably in Switzerland?
In this video, we break down why you should aim for a salary above 120K CHF. We'll talk about the cost of living, potential family support obligations, and the possible challenges your partner may face when finding a job in the Swiss market. We understand that moving countries is a significant life decision, and we want to help you make it with your eyes wide open.
We'll also share insights from industry professionals and anecdotes from expats who’ve walked this path before. We aim to give you a comprehensive understanding of the Swiss job market, so you can negotiate your salary with confidence and secure a better future for yourself and your family.
Remember, your skills are valuable, and you deserve a salary that reflects that. So, before you sign that contract, watch this video. It might just be the most profitable few minutes of your career.
00:00 - Your partner might need help
03:57 - You need to save lots of money for children, time off, bad times
08:01 - Salary bands - a warning
11:01 - Conclusion
Want to learn more about moving to Switzerland and many other countries around the world as a software developer?
Visit 38Countries.com and join our newsletter at: 38countries.com/ch/how-to-mov...
The information contained herein is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal, tax or immigration advice. We recommend consulting with a qualified professional for guidance specific to your situation.
Viewers should seek professional advice before making any decisions or taking any actions based on the information presented. 38Countries is not liable for any losses or damages arising from the use of this channel or the information presented. By accessing and using the information presented on this channel, you acknowledge and agree to this disclaimer.

Хобби

Опубликовано:

1 авг 2024

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 35

@panos7256 2 месяца назад

Very accurate advice. If you live alone 120T as an expat shall be the minimum. But if you need to provide for a family with that salary forget it. Don't be naive guys, universal rules apply also in Switzerland

@cernejr 9 месяцев назад

Future topic? Teams/Companies that use Linux vs Windows. Here in US the culture of teams/companies that use Linux is quite different from teams/companies that use exclusively Windows. Or maybe a more general topic - how the technologies in use affect the company/team culture. E.g. I know that CERN uses lots of Linux.

@38countries 9 месяцев назад

Sounds like an interesting topic. I am not quite sure how to approach it though. macOS and especially iOS are definitely very big in Switzerland.

@PaulJaros 8 месяцев назад

Hi. I'm a Swiss running a hackerspace in St. Gallen. I've worked a long time as a Dev and switched to DevOps at the last job working with Linux on a the servers. On the current job I have also users using Raspberry-Pis along with Windows-Clients (There is always some software that won't easily run on Linux) . I don't think you can generalize the company culture judging from the software being used. When it comes down, in the end all companies will need to pay their bills. Often the current management will need to stick to past technical decisions because switching is hard and can even heavily disrupt operations even when it's clear that the past decision weren't ideal. When I seek a job, I try to find one which needs my skills and where my favorite tools are accepted by the company.

@cernejr 9 месяцев назад

Very informative, thank you. Video topic suggestion: Out of 100 sw engineers in Switzerland, how many are typically Swiss born, how many are from EU, how many are from India? Here in US the H1B visas, which do not allow the visa holder to easily switch jobs, play huge negative role on salaries and working conditions for sw engineers. Also, are trade unions a thing in CH? And how well does CH govt regulate work - e.g. can employers demand unpaid overtime as here in US?

@38countries 9 месяцев назад

Great question. Switzerland is a somewhat similar in terms of employment law to the US, just less extreme. Notice periods are short, especially in your first year. It's a bit less dramatic to lose your job in Switzerland vs. the US on H1B, but it is a risk and at the very least a psychological burden. Since getting a visa for non EU/EFTA citizens is a significantly more complex task for employers with quotas, only about 7% of the Swiss working population are non EU/EFTA/UK citizens [1]. I estimate the percentage among software developers is a bit higher due to the special skills required, so let's say maybe about 10%. I am not sure what percentage of those 10% is Indian, but I am sure you can find that number somewhere. [1]: www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/work-income/employment-working-hours/economically-active-population/foreign-labour-force.assetdetail.26505677.html

@cernejr 9 месяцев назад

@@38countries Thank you for the prompt and informative answer, it gives me a rough idea. Here in California there are companies where some 90% of developers and sw managers are from India. Many are on H1B visa, and as a result they are afraid to speak up. This impacts salaries, working conditions, and product safety.

@38countries 9 месяцев назад

I could imagine that this factor exists also in Switzerland, but to a lesser extent. There is certainly a bit more transparency about it in Switzerland since the government has put in some measures in place that try to make it harder for employers to bring in people from afar, undermining Swiss salaries and quality levels. Plus, Switzerland has much less of a hire and fire mentality even though the comparatively lax employment law in Switzerland would legally permit this practice. But this idea in part triggered me to make the video in the first place, so that newcomers to CH don't have a bad awakening a while after arriving because you might put yourself under a lot of pressure not to have to leave the country (many people are not good at dealing with this).

@cernejr 9 месяцев назад

@@38countries Good information, thank you. Until recently I worked for Siemens, we had a branch in Baden, CH. My Swiss colleagues (as well as international colleagues working in Switzerland), seemed more relaxed compared to us here in California.

@tortyr666 9 месяцев назад

Brilliant video thank you! Could we say QA/Software Testers (manual) will be paid 15-20% less than a developer? Maybe 10%-15% for Automation Testers?

@38countries 9 месяцев назад

Manual testing may be a bit lower, but I do not think that automated test engineers (if that is what you meant) are significantly below software engineers on average.

@cernejr 9 месяцев назад

In good companies automated test development is no different from other sw development, when it comes to salary. The job title is often "Software Engineer in Testing", something like that. Not sure about salaries of manual testers, I expect them to be quite a bit lower.

@tortyr666 9 месяцев назад

@@38countries thank your for your answer! Very helpful Manual tester first, at the moment

@tortyr666 9 месяцев назад

@@cernejr thank you so much! Do you think Switzerland (Geneva) would hire a Junior Software tester with no professional experience (from France ) or would they hire a 3y experience minimum? Do they give a chance to junior I mean...

@cernejr 9 месяцев назад

@@tortyr666 I have no idea, sorry. I am a sw engineer in US, I was talking about US. In general most of what I said is true in any country.

@christianhabis8554 9 месяцев назад

Hello. Great video as usual. Been watching your content for a long time and I have aspirations to move to Switzerland. I am Lebanese with 2.5 years of experience in Software Development, and I have a bachelor degree. Would you say things are especially more complex for people coming from the Middle-East (also given the current unstable situation with the war), or is it equally difficult for anyone coming from non EU/EFTA/UK citizens?

@38countries 9 месяцев назад

Hi @christianhabis8554, I don't think that being Lebanese makes a dramatic difference over other non-EU/EFTA citizenship holders. More relevant are your tech as well as language skills. For the most part, Switzerland is nicely meritocratic, at least in software engineering. While salaries tend to be a good deal lower in the French speaking part, it could be wise to focus on that one in the beginning if you are good with French like many Lebanese are. If you speak neither German, French nor Italian your choice will be limited but it does not have to be a bad thing. I think the really good roles in Switzerland are English based anyways. It will significantly increase the time to find such a role in the first place + visa sponsorship though, but the role might be better and more technologically interesting. Sidenote: UK citizens are no longer preferred and have the same difficulties like every non-EU/EFTA citizen after the transition rule expired in 2022.

@christianhabis7189 9 месяцев назад

Thank you for the detailed reply. Yes I know French very well, but I am also learning German at the moment too. Hopefully this will increase my options in finding jobs here. Based on your answer, looks like I just have to keep grinding and applying for jobs as often as I can until one eventually works. Thanks again!@@38countries

@38countries 9 месяцев назад

Yes, that is a good starting point. If you want to take the short cut to getting a job in Switzerland, we can help you with that: 38countries.com/ch/job-coaching

@joramk1449 9 месяцев назад

What is a realistic salary for a junior software engineer with up to 1 year of work experience (during the Computer Science studies)? I would like to complete my graduation internship (Bachelorarbeit) in Switzerland and then live and work in the Zurich/Lucerne area. I'm Dutch and speak English + German.

@38countries 9 месяцев назад

Really depends on your specialization. While the statistics I referred to in the video are a bit misleading about senior and higher roles, I think they are more accurate on junior roles.

@joramk1449 9 месяцев назад

@@38countries Okay, merci vielmal :)

@simdl1999 9 месяцев назад

What is a good salary for the first job with a master degree in computer scienes?

@38countries 9 месяцев назад

The two salary boundaries from the video are pretty much what you should aim for. It depends a bit on your specialization, internships, language skills and so on. For example, PHP tends to pay a bit less. In cases like these, you may not be ready to move to / stay in Switzerland and another country might give you a better deal overall.

@mario_luis_dev 9 месяцев назад

Thanks for the video Raphael. I've been offered exactly CHF120K to work as a Java software engineer at UBS (Zürich), but I have two small kids and a wife that doesn't speak German... so I'm hesitating to make the move. The number seems too low for a family of four, even if we lived in the vicinity of Zürich and not the city itself... What would you advise? Knowing what you know, would you take the offer or look elsewhere? Thanks in advance for any advice!

@38countries 9 месяцев назад

You could make it if you optimize cost, but you won't be able to save a lot for the bad times / additional time off for family etc (see Topic 2 in the video) and it is a bit risky in general unless your wife will also be working once you move. If she makes e.g. 80K per year, so it's 200K p.a. pre-tax/social for the whole household that would be fine. Otherwise I'd look somewhere else first or prepare to be on a thin budget for a while, i.e. less vacation, luxury etc. Both strategies can work, depending on your risk appetite.

@mario_luis_dev 9 месяцев назад

@@38countries thanks for the heads up! It seems like it’s a no-go for now then, I do not want to be dealing with the headaches of a tight budget. Either get a better offer, or move to Ticino instead (she speaks native Italian). I could commute from Lugano to Zürich, although I’m not sure for how long I could keep that up.

@38countries 9 месяцев назад

Yeah, as I explained in the other video, Ticino and Wallis can be great places to find a less expensive place to live, especially on a lower salary (always do the exact math though) vs Zurich. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wygtd__11cs.html Ideally you should not have to commute to the office more than twice per week. I would never accept an offer where I have to come to the office every day unless I get paid a lot of money extra for that, i.e. an offer on the lower end does not qualify.