18" DIY Subwoofer: 18" GSG Full Marty VS 18" Sealed Parts Express Kit

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18" DIY Subwoofer: 18" GSG Full Marty VS 18" Sealed Parts Express Kit
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SUBWOOFER SHOWDOWN: DIY 18" Sealed vs Ported SPL / Frequency Response. 2 Subwoofers enter... 18" Sealed vs Ported Subwoofer SPL comparison.
GSG Minimarty vs Denovo sealed. Both with the Parts Express Dayton Ultimax Um18-22 subwoofer.
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11 май 2019

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Комментарии : 131

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

Check out the channel for more new AV and Home Theater information: bit.ly/JDM_World_RU-vid

@nicolaskorbyn6448 3 года назад

Pro trick: watch series on InstaFlixxer. Me and my gf have been using them for watching lots of of movies these days.

@douglasjude714 3 года назад

@Nicolas Korbyn Yea, I have been watching on InstaFlixxer for years myself =)

@portermagnus9154 3 года назад

@Nicolas Korbyn definitely, I have been watching on InstaFlixxer for since december myself =)

@RollingThunder85 3 года назад

Finally some actual comparison videos that are real life scenarios thank you

@JilesMcCoy 3 года назад

Glad you liked it!

@levrone0075 Год назад

Wow I spoke too soon on your bass test video, this is what I'm taking about! Absolutely Awesome!

@JilesMcCoy Год назад

See, I am all that :-)

@diywithalittlehelp9162 3 года назад

Do you see any issue with a full Marty and a smaller sealed enclosure both with um18-22 in them? For a home theater set up?

@erikgoetz1 5 лет назад

Good video, I was asking myself recently how the 2 would compare and then I saw this video and was happy to have my question answered. 1 suggestion. When measuring near field on a ported subwoofer you need to also measure the port and add the 2 measurements together to get an accurate response. As you measured further away the mic began to pick up the combined response. Jeff Bagby and a couple of others have written some good white papers and done videos on the subject.

@JilesMcCoy 5 лет назад

Thanks Erik, I will check those out. I did a number of measurements at the cone, the port, between the two, etc. My conclusion is that since I wasn't trying to create a scientific quality measurement keeping measurements similar and simple would give good enough data. Much better than anecdotal in any event. Next up will be working on some simple processes people can use to integrate multiple subwoofers. Hopefully I can derive a similarly simple process that yields "good enough" results yet still addresses time delay, phase, reflections, nulls, multiple seating locations, etc.

@aaronmyers4951 Год назад

@@JilesMcCoy please do. nulls especially are more important than 1 meter measurements.. unless you only ever listen by yourself. Thanks for the video, though.

@TimpBizkit 2 месяца назад

Yes you will get less output from the driver in areas of the ported as the driver "stops moving" and the port gives more output. I pointed this out in a video of miking bass guitar and guitar cabs.

@johnmathenge5271 2 года назад

There are some serious flaws in this video. First, all sealed subs benefit A LOT in room further away from the cone (room gain). Near field measurements only give you a profile you see on WinISD. Second, this sealed sub has not been EQd like commercial sealed subs are (remember how you EQd the Harbottle sub? That's exactly what you should have done here). It is impossible for a ported sub to outperform a sealed in the teens (around 17Hz and below) if they are similar drivers driven by same amp and the ported tuned at 20Hz (like this one).

@Clint3571 4 года назад

Could you run REW with the mic at your actual listening position? I think you would notice an even bigger difference in the ported around 20hz. I am also wondering if you are pushing both subs to their theoretical xmax. I would like to see a test with EQ on the sealed and as much power as it can handle. I have a 12 cubic foot box tuned to 18hz with a Dayton 15 in it right now and I am trying to decide if I want to go with a pair of sealed 15s instead, but I know that power and EQ comes into play. Thanks for taking the time to make an informative video.

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

Hi Clint. I think you are right about even more output being measurable at the MLP. Since the video I have pulled the driver from the sealed box and build a 2nd ported enclosure. I plan to do a video showing their performance in my listening environment. It wont be directly applicable to other folks rooms but it is suggestive of what it might be link. I also plan to buy a sealed 15" kit from PE and make a video about that. I could do a 1 v 1 in my environment to see the output difference between it and the ported 18. I didn't attempt to find maximum output for the subs. They play into the mid 120s as a pair and Ive not tried to go higher than that. For me... the is way plenty!!!

@sniper8567 4 года назад

You need 3 seald subs to reach the SPL of one vented in the low end. If you want to play load at 80Hz go sealed :)

@ghostrecon3214 4 года назад

Excellent video, thank you very much, subbed!

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

Thanks! Tell your friends!!!! Trying for 2k!

@joeydelmarsjr.646 4 года назад

@@JilesMcCoy hey i currently have 2x15s audio pipe @ 2ohm 775rms on paper i get 117db @ 2.4meters. or 113db for 1x15. you think i could benefit big with going 2x18 mini marty?

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

Joey Del Mars Jr. I wouldn’t worry so much about maximum SPL. I would look at SPL at frequency. Where is your F3? ( The frequency when your sPl is down 3db. A great goal is to have your f3 fall at 20hz or lower. If you don’t have that you might want to look at changes. That is a fairly aggressive goal for anyone but hard core folks though.

@joeydelmarsjr.646 4 года назад

@@JilesMcCoy thanks for the advice I guess I need to invest in the UK 1 mic to measure

@Clobercow1 2 года назад

If you want to see the difference between sealed and ported, you need a third graph to represent the port effects.

@savoirfaire8979 5 лет назад

Pro-tips: use large screen pointers to highlight graph areas and get to the point faster.

@JilesMcCoy 5 лет назад

Thanks!

@Quetzalcoatl0 4 года назад

Would love to see the same video but with place them in the corner and take measurements when each one is in the corner not next to it. Also measure like further away to see how much room gain can help a sealed. This would really help me. Planning on getting dome ultimax 18s but dunno if i should go 2 ported or 4 to 5 sealed with heavy EQ.

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

How about 4 ported? The Marty Cubes arent much larger than the sealed boxes.

@Quetzalcoatl0 4 года назад

@@JilesMcCoy I would love to, but no space for such a big volume =/ But i can fit 4 to 5 sealed cubes almost everywhere. The design i was looking for for ported was a 500L box with a 15hz tune and a 4th order highpass at ~13hz. Not planning to push more than 600watts into one. For the sealed i was looking for a 180L box running 100w on the sub but with heave EQ, 5db + at 20hz and 5db+ at 15hz, so boost those lows. This way i can have a sealed flat response down to 14ish HZ and a really slow slope. Because of the low unboosted wattage i don't even need any fitlers. The only problem is that i can play subs almost everywhere but i can't move them around for the sweet spot. So it will have to be EQ-ed even more. Room is also huge so i have no idea how much room gain i will get. I might build one of each and test as much as i can before i throw more money. Would really love more tests of both in different positions thou :)

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

Right on. I eliminated all of my sealed subs some time ago. For the money I get over twice the performance from the ported enclosures... and they sound better too. I am thinking about downsizing to Marty Cubes though... I have a Devastator coming online one of these days and I need to make some space.

@herrtrigger7220 4 года назад

Great video! However... To measure the more sub and less AV gear, I think subs should simply be fed a sine wave sweep of 50 to 20 hz from a tone generator at the subs max output before damage with both frequency and SPL displayed real-time. Otherwise what are we really going to discover? Could we get pretty much the same results from the Ultimax at 20 - 30% as from a good 12 inch sub driven at 90%? Yes we could. Material over 50 hz is not the job of a subwoofer. Sub measurements are not the same at 20% output vs 90%, the levels at different frequencies change, some more than others. If the test room dimensions are given, we can figure the +/- results relative to our own room. To demonstrate the full capability of the Ultimax 18, the minimum amplifier to properly drive a single sub is either the Crown XLS 2002, XTi 2002 or QSC RMX 1450a. A pair of the QSC's WILL trip your breaker at the upper threshold if the room is only on a 15 amp circuit, the Crowns get the job done with less draw. The DSP on the XTi series is well worth the $$ for sub duty, you can smooth out ugly room peaks in minutes. The Ultimax will tap out before these amps clip or exhibit any distortion. Using Behringer amps, plate amps or mid-fi consumer grade gear like Emotiva on the Ultimax is like trying to see what a new Corvette can do without exceeding 2,000 rpm on icy roads. This sub demands current, none of the plate amps or boutique gear can match these pro amps. You bought and built the subs, don't you want to see what they can really do? Not just in terms of sheer blurred vision SPLs but much lower distortion as well. Don't try to water ski using an electric trolling motor.

@glennnichols4220 3 года назад

Or what even mess with all of that and buy a JTR Sub? Their subs are 65lbs of pure carnage

@herrtrigger7220 3 года назад

@@glennnichols4220 Great question. Answer: You can have get four Ultimax 18-22 sub kits with Crown amps for roughly the price of just one of the least expensive JTR 18 inch subs. Databass has the Ultimax 18-22 beating the Rythmik F18 by several db @ 20, 25 and 31hz. Of course JTR has subs doing even better. A pair of 18-22 kits / Crown XLS 2502 cost the same as one F18. I guess you meant the JTR is 165 lbs, not 65?

@FatFolksProductions Год назад

Great info!! Have you compared the PE 18' cube to the GSG Roundover Marty v2.1 18" Flat Pack? I'm wondering how those would compare if used in a small room.

@JilesMcCoy Год назад

The gsg has sizably more output since it’s ported. They both sound great and I was happy running both.

@JoshM7 3 года назад

I'm thinking of downsizing from my Full Marty and I was considering dual sealed Ultimax 18s. But plugging my ports on the Full Marty (making it sealed) I noticed HEAVY distortion below 20Hz on less than 300w. 15Hz for example at 300w (around 35v-40v out of the Inuke) 2nd order harmonics is as loud as the fundamental 15Hz tone. (That's 30Hz) As well as terrible 3rd and higher harmonics. Have you noticed this problem out of your Ultimax 18 Sealed? Have you run the sub hard around 15Hz and noticed heavy distortion? I really need to downsize so it'll be easier to go dual in my room. But I want it to at least play cleanly and I fear the Ultimax subs distort too easily below their sealed roll off point. Which is confusing when people claim really good 10Hz numbers. Maybe they don't measure distortion and they just post up a graph without knowing any better? Sorry for the long comment/ rant. I might just go with Dual 2x UM10s per enclosure tuned to 18Hz in a 5 cubic foot enclosure. But dual Sealed Ultimax 18s would be great if the distortion wasn't a possible problem around my target 17Hz+ range. Would make for a quick and easy project. Kinda quick...Other ther than waiting for Ultimax subs to come back in stock it'll be quick and easy

@JilesMcCoy 3 года назад

Ask on our Discord server: discord.gg/gGmRMqYTNH to get more details!

@tcc5750 Год назад

I'm confused. In your other video the Marty Cube with UM18 went to 92dB at 10Hz, but here the bigger Full Marty with UM18 did worse at around 86dB at 10hz. I thought it would go lower if the cabinet is bigger/larger.

@wadimek116 Год назад

My sealed um18 gets to 86db 10hz in my room on a 100w amp although 86db is a limit then mechanical noise starts and db doesn't go higher

@keithraufer6894 4 года назад

So the ported had more output but which had better sound quality? What setup had more punch?

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

I liked everything about the ported more than the sealed. Sound quality, timber, punch, etc. I liked it so much I built a 2nd one.

@j-rod6420 4 года назад

I built the 18 ultimax sub kit ,which is sealed.During testing I didnt get much movement at 10 hz and zero at 5.My Kef Q950's moved a lot at those frequencies.Do you think this issue is the Dayton spa1000 plate or the sub itself.

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

If I had to guess it would either be the source or the amp. The subwoofer itself should be moving at the frequencies if the source and amp are pushing them. Try to find some tone videos on RU-vid and see if something kills the output as you move from 20hz down.

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

5 hz is really low. I only ever measure down to 10 hz.

@j-rod6420 4 года назад

Yes that's what I did ,the youtube bass freq test.I will go through the tests again.What I found concerning was my Kefs were pumping like mad but the sub wasn't at 10 and 5.The kefs roll of somewhere around 40hz.The sub amp is being feed by a Cambridge audio cxa80 pre outs.The amp is running the Kefs so that shouldn't be the issue.

@SF-hy7nw 3 года назад

question on the AMP - will the one Beringher run two UM 18-22's? Bought one UM18 and am planning for another in the future

@JilesMcCoy 3 года назад

The nx6000 runs 2 no problem!

@Techdiscussed 2 года назад

Would you consider boosting the lower frequencies with PEQ on a sealed sub?

@JilesMcCoy 2 года назад

It all depends on the situation but you can for sure.

@edub8803 3 года назад

Great vid, already subscribed... Do you think the disparity would be less if the sealed box was bigger?

@JilesMcCoy 3 года назад

No, not from a sound volume point of view. Bass reflex designs are going to be louder around port tuning than sealed. That doesn't necessarily mean that sealed isn't the right thing to do... but there are pros and cons.

@ChannelBri 4 года назад

So which one did you keep for your daily driver? Looks like the Martys. Why? Preference for music? Preference for movies?

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

I kept the Marty. And built a 2nd. The room is about 80% movies. I have been really happy with them. I am going to build smaller cabinets and try those out and see how that compares.

@ChannelBri 4 года назад

@@JilesMcCoy i have 4 of the um18 in the pe flatpack but saw a couple empty martys on craigslist and couldn't resist. Getting drivers now. After modeling in winisd, i am kind of surprised seeing the um-18s in Martys. The b&c 18DS115 adds a lot on the low end giving up nothing higher up at least in the model. Looking forward to more devastator videos. Thanks!!

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

@@ChannelBri Enjoy those Martys!!!!!

@chefchutardo5215 4 года назад

What about the sound quality or bass "thightness" did it sound better in the sealed ?

@joeydelmarsjr.646 4 года назад

the um18 states 4.2cuft sealed and 11.7 ported. are you currently using daytons recommend net cu.ft boxes?

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

The kit for the sealed box is listed in the notes below. The link will take you to the specifics on the internal volume. The ported box is a Full Marty from GSG Audio. Give GSG Audio a googles and you can see all the details about the box!

@keepitshema 4 месяца назад

@@JilesMcCoywould these performed than svs pb200pro’s?

@JilesMcCoy 4 месяца назад

@@keepitshema yes, more output.

@keepitshema 4 месяца назад

@@JilesMcCoy lower extension as well ? I mean, now I have flat response to 17Hz. Diy seems to be now to be a good fun and option to upgrade bass.

@SamW88 5 лет назад

which would you recommend for movies, and why?

@JilesMcCoy 5 лет назад

Unless you go with many sealed boxes I would recommend a ported solution. It will have significantly greater output in the useful range than a sealed box. 2 Marty's are likely to provide you more bass than you need.

@andrewjewell8209 3 года назад

@Home Theater Fanatics. Hey, excellent video, very detailed explanation. I’m looking to get the gsg mini Marty. The new round over style with the Dayton ultimax 18. What power amp would you suggest? I have a crown xls2502 I was thinking about running it bridged at 4ohms. I know it will put out about 2400 watts At 4 ohms thought about wiring the sub to an 8ohm or maybe just get a smaller crown xls amp. If you have any suggestions I would appreciate it. I would like to stick with crown to keep everything matching unless there is a reason I should switch it up. Thanks again for the content.

@imranward4092 4 года назад

Have you considered using DSP to clean up the output?

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

I use a minidsp for all my subs.

@justinz4351 11 месяцев назад

Hey sir. I was thinking about doing that denovo sealed with a um15 and a bash 500 amp. Then i saw the starke sw15. Which would you recommend? Id be using it for movies and music both

@JilesMcCoy 11 месяцев назад

It depends if you actually want to build or not. If you want to go through the diy process then do the um15. But if you just want a good sub at a good price then get the starke.

@justinz4351 11 месяцев назад

Do you think I'd get better performance put of the diy one?

@JilesMcCoy 11 месяцев назад

You should... its an 18" vs the 15" in the starke. All depends on what you need.

@12shaw34 5 лет назад

Great video, what was your AVR volume at for these tests? I just recently built 2 Mini marty's with UM18's and I must say, so far they don't compare to my 1 PB16 Ultra. I have been trying to get this figured out, because I must be doing something wrong. What settings to you have on the amp, and what amp are you using?

@JilesMcCoy 5 лет назад

The volume setting is really arbitrary. If you compare you want to try to have things similar as possible. Obviously this wasn't a scientific comparison at all... but it was better than just pure anecdotal. I have a iNuke 6000. I used the same amp channel at the same gain settings for both the subwoofers. 2 mini martys should do better than a PB16 if you give them enough power. What are you using to power them?

@12shaw34 5 лет назад

@@JilesMcCoyI was thinking the same thing, that is why I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong. I am using a Behringer NX6000D. I was asking about volume just to see approximately where my subs stand compared to yours. I know when dealing with things like volume there are a great deal of variables, but I will still have a better idea about my SPL vs yours, after I understand where your volume was during these tests. I know it wont be exact, but it will still be a more accurate understanding with that information, thanks.

@JilesMcCoy 5 лет назад

I don't recall specifically where I had the vol set. The goal was to get a relative comparison between the two units. The actual SPL didn't matter. I hope that makes sense.

@Coffeedad 7 месяцев назад

Can the minidsp clean that up and level it out?

@JilesMcCoy 7 месяцев назад

It can. Big room modes need multiple subs though.

@jeremygattenby2183 4 года назад

Would love to see a denovo sealed box compared to a Marty cube rather than the full Marty.

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

I might have a cube next year sometime. I don't have that kit to build unfortunately.

@jeremygattenby2183 4 года назад

JDM World I’m about to pull the trigger on dual Marty cubes. I can’t wait.

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

@@jeremygattenby2183 Awesome. I know you will love it!!!

@jeremygattenby2183 4 года назад

JDM World I’ve got my eye on a couple of Crown XLS pro amps to power the cubes but I’m open to other ideas. What are you powering yours with and are you happy with it?

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

Jeremy Gattenby I’m using a behringer inuke nu6000 for my two. The new nx version looks lots better. Supposedly two 3000 are better than the single 6000.

@paulstearns93 2 года назад

I'm sure you have discovered this in your journey over the last 2.5 years. To get a more representative measurement inside the surround (close mic), on the ported you may want to do two measurements and sum them. One inside the surround and the other at the port.

@JilesMcCoy 2 года назад

I now prefer to measure at the MLP. Obviously there is room interaction... but understanding that I like the ability to see the relative performance no matter the style of enclosure.

@paulstearns93 2 года назад

@@JilesMcCoy Regarding LP(s) they are the best place(s) to measure, as that is what counts. I was just pointing out if you are doing nearfield measurements on a ported enclosure, you should measure the woofer and the port as they both add sound to the room. The measurements should also be gated to preclude room interference.

@JilesMcCoy 2 года назад

@@paulstearns93 I agree.

@eltoncrim8344 3 месяца назад

Thanks for the video, I just think the apples to apples thing doesn’t make sense. One is sealed one is ported. It’s apples to oranges from the start. Can’t really comment on the drivers since the enclosures were vastly different. Too many variables to say anything.

@JilesMcCoy 3 месяца назад

Ultimately it comes down to the output and frequency response.

@ChannelBri 4 года назад

Thanks for the great video. Thinking of adding a couple Marty subs to my sealed subs and towers with powered passive radiator sub sections. I had great success integrating using multi sub optimizer (mso) software to set filters delays, and levels for each sub independently in minidsp. This reduces seat to seat variation, then i ran audessey, then manual delay tweaks wonder why more people don't use MSO

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

MSO has a learning curve most folks don't want to fool with. It is a great tool! I've not seen a really good video that simplifies the learning process either. I'll get to it one day!

@ChannelBri 4 года назад

True, Great idea for a video ;) yours are packed with great info! IMO if one is doing DIY subs, using REW, working on placement, using EQ, mixing subs, pro amps (ie lookingfor good reference level without $25k) makes things so much easier to use MSO

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

I agree. Its a great tool!

@markanderson8119 4 года назад

Are you using the same electronics and speakers or just the same speakers in the two enclosures? If not this is pointless as you may have electronic issues coloring the speaker performance

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

Mark Anderson Everything is identical other than the enclosures. Even the same brand wire inside the boxes.

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

Same amps, source, etc.

@markanderson8119 4 года назад

@@JilesMcCoy cool thanks for responding!

@kewlbug 2 года назад

I know this is old, would be nice to see you switch like 1/6 or even 1/3 smoothing on and off.. just to give you a more general idea of what is going on. I think would be relevant with what you are trying to show.

@JilesMcCoy 2 года назад

What do you think about the newer videos?

@TheBassallyear100 2 года назад

i'm a new sub, this is a really good video! from watching your other videos i think it was mentioned that your longest wall in your theater room is about 17 feet - that should put your room gain starting at ~33 hz and a 12 dB boost at ~16.5 hz. it's great that you can actually see that begin to occur in your sealed sub measurements at cone vs at 1m. it's also very useful for viewers so they can see effects of room gain in a room conducive to it and similarly understand how there will be very little room gain when you have an open floor plan due to the reinforcement point being much lower in the frequency spectrum. my room gain begins at 15 hz! dang open floorplan!

@bloodcarver913 5 лет назад

Btw, thanks for the video. Good informative stuff and interesting to see a measurement. Please take my comments below as they are: constructive feedback and not criticism. :) I gave you a like.

@JilesMcCoy 5 лет назад

Thanks for the like and the comments. Both are super important to the channel. I really appreciate it. A subscription would be awesome too :-)

@jozefrichter9171 5 лет назад

please add 720p or 1080p resolusion. But still good job on content. Keep it up

@JilesMcCoy 5 лет назад

RU-vid should automatically process and add those resolutions so that you can choose.

@canillocanillo3371 5 лет назад

I have the same sub with the same ported box.. And Im flat from 50hz all the way down to 10hz after room gain

@JilesMcCoy 5 лет назад

Thats cool. Rooms are crazy things. Be careful to not blow out your sub under its tuning frequency.

@medeuce 4 года назад

Luis Perez how though ?

@canillocanillo3371 4 года назад

JDM World Its a sealed box, no tuning freq

@medeuce 4 года назад

Luis Perez specs ? Would love to try that out. Constantly seeking accurate Bass.

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

Luis Perez I was just going on the comment above that you have the same sub in a ported box.

@gufiaito69able 3 года назад

Would that sealed go to 10hz?

@JilesMcCoy 3 года назад

Fore sure.

@thefunksemail1 3 года назад

so throw away all the graphs, what did your ears tell you? I think people over analyze this stuff way too much.

@dougg1075 4 года назад

Just give us the lowdown, which one is too dog:)

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

Doug G Full Marty 100%

@diywithalittlehelp9162 4 года назад

@@JilesMcCoy I have an opportunity to drive 5hours to get a full marty enclosure built and finished, no driver or amp for $400. You think its worth the drive? Of course I'll get the ult18 and an amp to power it later on.

@JilesMcCoy 4 года назад

@@diywithalittlehelp9162 For 300-350 I think its totally worth it.

@SpecialEDy 5 лет назад

Do you have a recommendation for using two UM18-22's inside a van?

@JilesMcCoy 5 лет назад

I don't. I would check on some car audio forums.

@sniper8567 4 года назад

It not made for cars. Building speakers for cars is much different.

@SpecialEDy 4 года назад

@@sniper8567 I don't think that's accurate. It is made for cars and home theatre, based upon the fact that Parts Express lists build specs for both on this driver. Home audio and car audio are only different in the electricity powering the system, and the fact that a car is a much less ideal environment for speaker layout and sound reflections.

@SpecialEDy 4 года назад

@@JilesMcCoy Unfortunately, car audio people are incredibly ignorant compared to home audiophiles. "Let's just throw more power and bigger drivers at the issue".

@SpecialEDy 4 года назад

@@JilesMcCoy I went with the UM18 -22 and the Parts Express enclosure kit.