I have been waiting to see this for a long long time. Amazing work. Also, props for the video quality. One question. I 've heard from many lock picking experts, that the Abloy Protec 2 is still considered superior to the Dom Diamant, in terms of picking resistance. Is that just because of the Disc Blocking System (DBS) and the false notches on the Abloy's disks, or is it something more that makes the Abloy Superior? I would really appreciate your input. Thank you in advance.
Yes, the main reason for considering the protec2 to be more difficult is the DBS. It can be bypassed, but that is not easily done regarding the toolmaking. Also the picking tip that would comes into play after the DBS bypass has zo fit through the face plate, but behind that the space gets bigger and it will not have such a tight fit as it is possible for the diamant. This makes the jiggle test more difficult. Overall the protec2 needs much more advanced toolmaking and will still be a trickier pick.
@@CaptainHookNumber1 Great! thank you, today I was trying to make the pick for the Abloy classic. The spacers thickness is only 0,6mm... the pick looks very thin and weak, I don´t know if it will work for me, but I will try ;o)) Here is my mail if you need something too: tallanspick@gmail.com Cheers! ;o))
@@TallanPick the thickness of the picking tip usually isn't the critical point. E.g. the thickness of my tips for e.g. Abloy Exec is below 0.4mm and for classic I recommend about 0.5mm. The weakest point is the shaft because it has to be thin (problem 5-0). Therefore it is critical what steel you use and also a light hand on the picking tip is important. Moving between the discs should be easy (if not the angle is a bit wrong or you problem 5-0 is conflicting with the shaft thickness). Jiggle testing the discs and moving to the next gate should also not take a lot of force as one can always back off the tension (even completely is fine) to free the disc that needs to be rotated. Maybe you can show me the picture of the bitting you want to pick. At the beginning it's easier to have a thicker shaft and an easier bitting. In any case the tip itself has to be crazy thin 😃
@@CaptainHookNumber1 ok, I see, I was using a bad steel tube, tomorrow I will find stainless steel tube for the job. What thickness should has the shaft of the pick? You are rigth, these are disc locks, we can release completely the tensior when turn a disc and the rest don´t move, I have to use to that method of work, thanks for the tip ;o)) The lock I have had no key, but I can gut it, so I can take a picture of the disc. Thanks again for your help buddy ;o))
@@TallanPick the width of the shaft should be around 1mm (below is better and increases functionality, but strongly depends on the steel) try to have it wider at first sonit doesn't get too weak (this limits the bittings the tool can pick though). The thickness(=difference between inner and outer diameter/2) should be at least 0.5mm.
Well, it is still am awesome lock that I'd use myself 😉 which other lock would you want to buy? Keep in mind that physical security is more important than perfect pick resistance and this lock excells both with the right setup around it
@@chris33661 regarding picking resistamce I'd say the abloy CY333T (protec2) is the best. The other 2 are pickable with less crafty tools also compared to the Diamant. The Protec2 is just such a nice lock. If you protect its face against these special protec drills it is the nicest lock to use atm. The Diamant is still pretty nice and the other 2 are not bad locks at all, but if you just go for pickability I am sure protec2 is the lock of choice. But is the rest of your door/s or windows safer than the lock?
Hi, I'm buying a main safety door with this dom installed plus a secondary mottura. . Can you suggest if it is a wrong choice? I'm taking about door installed in normal building with neighbours door in front of mine. Thank you
With enough time and expertise any lock can be opened. I'm not aware of any mechanical door lock that is somewhat unpickable or can't be destroyed etc in some way if the intruder has access to government tools 😉 The Dom Diamant needs a specialized tool that will only work on Dom Diamant locks and no other brand or model. Also it is not as easy as it might look if you are not experienced with these tools. In my opinion the Diamant offers great physical security and good security against picking. If you even have another lock on the door I think you are about as safe as with any other high security lock 🙂 just be aware that if you need a locksmith there will be a lot of cursing.
@@CaptainHookNumber1 thank you very much for your kind reply and really clear explanations. I will go ahead with that 😃. I hope to won't try the locksmith's cursing🤭🤭🤞🤞
Great pick and guting, of an interesting lock. I have a few questions on the lock: Is the front plate on the core made from hardened steel? Would a core puller break the housing? Are there any low skill attacks possible, like putting a steel rod inside the hole and break the housing? I guess drilling into the keyway would not compromise the lock, except with a guided drill bit, that uses the center hole as guide. I'm not much concerned about picking, because criminals don't do.
The Front plate and the housing are tough steel. I'm not sure if a core puller will work or break loose from the discs. It could work though if the front disc isn't damaging the screw too much. A center-guided milling bit like for some abloys might work but the steel is still pretty tough I heard. Forcing the lock surely won't work either because the 3 sidebars schould be very strong. With a better tip than in my video I think picking isn't so much more impractical than other attacks 🙂 of course that's not what a criminal or a locksmith will attempt
@@CaptainHookNumber1 Thank You some much, for the detailed information. I was not aware, that the housing is from steel, so this should be a very though lock.
@@hiltihome sure 🙂 and afaik the housing is even selectively sintered, I think that was why the logo stands out a bit (this way it can solidly stand on its own not compressing the non sintered powder on its weight)
@@CaptainHookNumber1 I have installed that model with a good defender or shield (escudo) as we call them in Spain. I guess I'm well served, even with a complementary FAC Uve deadlock to avoid the leveraging of the door.
I recommend an other cylinder for you, its kava penta, I have never layed hand on it , but I have heard from tool producers good words, I would love to see some one picking this cylinder!!! again man from what I see you target high end cylinders that few people would try!
How strong as those disks pushed together when the lock is in use? Would it be possible to use e.g. narrow wire to feel the gates from between the disks to decode the lock? (Thinking about theorical attacks in case you couldn't feel the gates directly.)
It's been a while since I gutted one but iirc the bearings in the spacers leave a small gap which allows a wire (not quite a wire but I think we mean the same thing close to the Abloy Protec decoder for reference) to pass in any case. The only issue could be the bearings in the spacers themselves which might be in the way. But picking is honestly a quite effective approach. By now I use nicer picking tips than shown in the video which are much easier to use.
@@CaptainHookNumber1 Thanks for quick response! I think I understood the behavior of the lock correctly from the video. Yes, I meant attack similar to using Protec decoder. I'm trying to create a new disk detainer lock design in open source spirit and I'm trying to avoid these kind of problems.
@@MikkoRantalainen there are a couple more approaches to manipulate disc detainer locks too. Self impressioning is one for example but I am currently not aware of a public tool. Against picking the ideas in Abloy Classic/ High Profile and The Protec locks are interesting. They both get close to prevent a 2 in 1 picking tool but aren't quite there without small changes. The addition of features like a disc blocking mechanism or wafer features (like Kromer Protector/Chubb Ava) or other tricks can really add to the lock too. Here are some interesting patents as well to look into: New X-Plus patent: patents.google.com/patent/US10358842B2/de Infamous pin tumbler DD hybrid with an unreliable but creative design: patents.google.com/patent/US4651546 Abloy groove: www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/93/93/fb/17d72d3970ee1b/US20140373581A1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi5iprOxbzwAhUP36QKHQLiB3UQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw0quAiRl4S4-eazHEXQEF-W Another example for a bidirectional ly operating DD lock has been teased in bowley's Twitter too in case you want your lock to be used outside of Finland 🙂
@@CaptainHookNumber1 Thanks for great links! I'm thinking on creating lock design where the full CAD files for the final piece would be published with Apache license 2.0 so that hopefully any random Chinese lock manufacturer would use the design instead of creating yet another poor Abloy classic copy with rectangular keyway. That would prevent using the design combined with patents because I think DD lock security should be in the key cut + pick proof design instead of patent "security". As I despice patents in general, I looked at Abloy classic for basic idea and I'm trying to use original designs on top of that to avoid patents. However, patents being the mess patents are, my design could still accidentally infringe some patent that I'm not even aware of. The design I currently have in mind is basically Abloy classic with two sidebars where one is inserting into core first to lock all the discs together and another is the real sidebar and discs cannot be moved individually while the second lock bar touches the discs. It can only open to one direction similar to Abloy classic padlocks so that design couldn't use euro cylinders. Unless I've made a mistake in my design, it should be able to work with zero springs and will work in any orientation (that is, no gravity needed either).
@@MikkoRantalainen I like the idea 🙂 if the manufacturing quality doesn't have to be very good for the design to work even cheap chinese manufacturing can give a pretty secure product (e. G. Yuema 750). Your design sounds pretty similar to the new X-Plus patent I linked so check that out beforehand. I haven't seen a lock based on this patent in retail yet though 🤔 Check out the yuema 760 (not 750) blocking mechanism too. I think Urban Hawk has an animation on RU-vid
@@CaptainHookNumber1 puoi farlo anche per me? Fammi sapere prezzo ti invio soldi... Pratico luckipiking da 20 anni... I multipunto da poco tempo... Tu sei molto bravo 👍💯👍💯👍😘😘😘😘❤️
Ich schätze mal, der Wert dieses Videos liegt darin, dem Endverbraucher zu erklären, dass man sich zur Manipulationsresistenz informieren kann. Das Schloss ist sehr sicher gegen andere Angriffe und auch diese Öffnungsmethode ist nicht trivial. Ich bezweifle, dass dieses Video ausschlaggebend dafür ist, ob jemand deine Tür öffnen kann.
![[18] DOM Diamant picked and gutted](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
