1972 Marshall model 1982B Speaker Cabinet Vs 1974 Orange. Amp: 2011 Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier. The Speakers are a pair of EVM12L. Guitar: 2013 Gibson SG Standard Aged.
I've watched a bunch of your videos now and you are the only guy that knows how to do a comparison test...brief intro and then let the sounds speak for themselves with labels so we know what we are listening to with no interruptions between changes....playing rhythms...solos....with same mics and same guitar and same phrasing....its perfect!!!! most of these other guys sit there and blab for 5 min between setups and you lose the whole object of the comparison...which is to decide which setup you like better....and to do that you have to hear them back to back instantly....great job on the videos and keep them coming you're doing a great service to people who would like to find out what they are looking for in their tone and don't have big cash on hand to experiment. Thanks again!
Nobody mentions that Orange cabs are dark and bassy because Orange heads are very bright. I love the voicing of Orange cabs paired with the bright clarity of Orange heads, whereas Mesas heads are darker and muddier
Very noticeable difference....but both sound awesome in their own way. The Marshall is brighter and has a bit more cut. The Orange is more on the bottom end/thickness. I bet both sound massive together. Cabinet construction makes the difference and this video is proof.
Great comparison. I also liked it that you used EV's for the shootout. Perhaps my favourite speakers. As always, Johan, a great job. Guitar geeks all over the world should thank you everyday for the trouble you go through to make these videos.
I love your videos - you've got me hooked. You do the most systematic, variable-reduced, useful comparisons on the web (within a certain narrow field). I wish others would adopt your methods. You almost seem like you might be an engineer ... LOL. I especially liked your two-speaker combination comparison - very informative. Keep up the fine work, my youtube friend.
You're doing an amazing job, sir. Been fan of the channel for a long time. Keep up the good work! In this video I love both, however, I think I like Orange a bit more.
That’s amazing how different they sound. Stellar comparison as usual. My personal taste would like some hybrid of both together. Some where in the middle.
I'm a big Orange fan but the Marshall takes the cake in that sound comparison! The Dual Rec has so much low end and the Marshall keeps it tight, even on those chugs. Thanks for taking the time to do the shootout!
The Orange seems to have a more muffled sound, which is interesting. The Marshall is loud, and probably better for harder music or live shows. Great sound on both, and great playing!
Nice comparison and very big difference. Have you tried to pair them together? Would be awesome to hear them both and compare to this video. Good luck!
I don’t think that the enclosure influences frequencies above 300hz or so. I suspect that the difference in treble response has to do with the mic positioning, the grill is probably further from the speakers inside of the orange while the grill is very close to the speakers in the Marshall. A room mic might have helped figure this detail out if you revisit the subject
this and I wonder if the position the cabs were at in the room was making a difference too... The marshall was right up against the couch, and I'm wondering if the couch right up against the back of the cab like that was diffusing some of the bass? Like how drummers stuff their kicks with pillows and blankets... The orange looked like it had a lot more breathing room behind it in comparison.
awesome riff starting at about 1:20. Your really rocked me her, I started headbanging. Well to the cabinets. The Marshall is it at first listening and the Orange opens its qualities after some hearing. I think played loud the Orange has more qualities as it is more massive (saw that on your comparison with 8 classic cabinets played very loud). Very good stuff you make here! Thank you.
Hey Johan! Great demo! As always… :D I think Orange cabs are dark sounding, and Orange Heads (the vintage ones) are very bright! I have old 1973 or120 and is very bright. So maybe that's why Orange cabs are so dark… to make a perfect cab for orange heads. I need one :) But vintage, to get a nice half stack of Orange goodness! Cheers!
I liked the Marshal cab more in this vid. Sounded way nicer to my ear then the orange. Would`nt have thought the difference in tone between the cabs allone is that big - really good demo!
Johan, have you looked into Impulse Response? I've been using IR lately, and I think it's a great speaker/cabinet substitute. Interested to see an A/B comparison between the real thing and an IR.
Johan you did a lot of comparisons! let me ask you 1 question... Im building a 412 cab. Would there be a difference in tone between 1/2" (pretty thin) plywood and 3/4" (pretty thick) plywood construction? I am not worried about weight. it will sit in the studio it's whole life...
Damn thise evm12 inside the marshall cab sounds fantastic. I own a 1960AV. But i never thought that less difference in volume is so much a difference when it comes to sound
Sooo huuuuge difference only from the cabs? Amazing!!! The Marshall I think just kept the "marshall" tone magically I don t know how but the orange also had a very pointed sound very bassy and clean. I don't know who I'd choose both are great but maybe I would take the Marshall. Great job Johan.
I always thought mics tend to love Marshall cabs. They may seem a bit scratchy and harsh on solo'd tracks, but they seem to sit really well in an mix and sound very up-front and in-your-face. Orange cabs are a bit harder to make justice to with a mic, I feel, partly because of the thick grille cloth, like you mention. Great shootout, thanks!
+Johan Segeborn The more I deny Marshall, the more I surreder to it later. I always carry good memories from the last ones I played. Really is an industry standard, although may not be perfect, it's easy to work with.
ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO, 95% OF GUITAR PLAYERS DONT REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW BIG AN IMPACT THE CAB HAS ON THE TONE OF AN AMP AND GUITAR, IT CAN HAVE THE SAME EFFECT AS THE AMP, WAMPLER PEDALS HAS A VIDEO WHERE THEY USE 1 AMP AND 12 CABS AND ANOTHER WITH 12 AMPS AND 1 CAB AND I WAS SHOCKED HOW BIG A DIFFERENCE THE CAB MAKES, GRILL CLOTH TOO, TONY IOMI SAYS THATS WHY HE HAS THE METAL GRILL COVER WITH THE CROSS CUT-OUTS, HE LIKE THAT SOUND THE BEST
I have just started putting my first stack together... Used Marshall MG100HDFX and a new MG4-12BCF... What is the popular opinion? Go with a A-B cab set up? Or a B-B cab arrangement?
+danny dee I would go with an A-B setup. A and B cabs sounds a bit different and complements eachother. Check this video out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fj_WHO7lROg.html
If you get a chance to buy one of the old 70's Ampeg V4 cabs, do it, I had one and wish I kept it. You can load it with Celestions, but you have to re-drill the holes. The Ampeg had a construction method un-like either Orange or Marshall, the front baffle and back of the cab were dado jointed which is what I think gave them such strong percussive projection. They were so air-tight they had to use the unique Ampeg locking jack (d.i.n) or they'd pop out, you could press one speaker cone and see the others move they were so air tight. And LOUD as hell! If you don't feel like replacing the d.i.n jack they sell adaptors which is a better idea if you play really loud and don't want it to pop out potentially damaging the amp's output transformer.
Pref the marshall. The orange would be good for an amp that has less bass than a recto. Like a 50 watt jcm or a splawn quickrod. Did you use that orange in the past with early 70s speakers in it? Were they the same speakers? The test where you had 4 or 5 cabs.
Wow, the EVM12L works very well in a marshall, i'm very surprise by the sound you'de got from it ! Excellent trash demo Johan !! Like Black Sabbath, i never liked Orange cabs so i clearly prefer the Marshall cab there ;)
Recording the two iconic cabs together will probably give the ultimate recording. Marshall being brighter orange being darker I would think that would be the best of both worlds dub together..
I love these videos, though I'd like to hear some clean tones too. In this case, my preference would be for the Orange - I like that KIND of sound - but I suspect the Marshall would be better in a band situation.
I think the Orange sounds a lot better and would benefit from amps with a presence control. I'm still deciding whether to commit to running two black Orange 4x12's with my Fractal/Fryette setup. I think it'll sound incredible.
I preferred the Marshall for the cutting mid-upper / mid bite; however, I liked the deeper tone on the Orange as well. I say, run them both with 2 separate heads and ABY switch. With both on, it would be an epic crunch tone. The Orange is just more scooped. Adding the lows of the Orange to the Marshall would be a nice thunderous roar.
What happened @ 1:30? Sounds like the Marshall suddenly turned into the Orange recording. I'm not convinced though. A few things....did you use the exact EVM speaker that was in the bottom left of the Marshall and install in in the bottom right of the Orange? If not....well then..... Exactly matched mic positions? Measured accurately for distance, location and off axis angle? Not busting your balls, but since you didn't confirm these things I have to ask!
Is it worth paying $1000 for an orange cab as opposed to a used Carvin or something for $150 when the only difference seems to be an EQ change between cabinets?
This is such an easy call. The Marshall cab was louder, tighter and much more focused. The Orange has a very loose low end, kind of flubby and spongy. The highs were almost gone. Now, that being said, the Orange has a specific genre that is tailor made for that speaker. The doom metal sound with the sludgy, slow rhythm, benefit from that speaker. A few other genres as well, but for my money, the Marshall is killer.
I like them both and would mix them, which is what J. Page did for quite a few concerts in the 70's. I also like the live video of Free doing All right now using orange heads and 4x12s.
Great stuff ...the problem with cabs and guitarists is one size does not fit all. I am afraid we all search for the holy grail but the journey is never ending.
Thanks, for this type of music the Celestion Alnicos doesn't have an aggressive enough break up in my opinion, the tone tubby red has a great breakup but may be a bit to bright. The JBLs are Way to bright. But for 70s hard rock. It sounds great with JBL d120fs, check out Dwayne Allmans setup. Cheers Johan
I ordered an Electric Amp "WHITE" cabinet to match my Orange PPC412 cabinets. Dimensions are the same. For an additional charge I could have gotten a 14" or even 16" depth on the cabinet for deeper bass response. I still get plenty of low end with a bass running through it with bass speakers in the cabinet.
The only difference to be heard involves resonance differences due to differing air volumes in cabs and how much energy the cabs absorb-which is a function of cab materials and bracing/design.
Could be the way they’re mic’s but there’s a drastic difference. The Orange sounds really dark and deep and the Marshall is bright and has some presence. Both sound good though!
Awesome video. Don't think either "wins." Different applications. Marshall seems like it'd work better in a band mix. Orange is more full, maybe better suited for a small band, or by itself.
I own the Orange PPC4x12HP8 (High Powered - 200 watts stereo, 400 watts mono), loaded with 4x Celestion G12K100s, the amp was made in [UK] 2014. (Black tolex). It was designed for the Orange Thunderverb 200 (watt), but I use it with my 120 watt 1974 Sunn Model T and it sounds absolute killer, brutally, insanely loud, yet very clear at high gain meaning you can hear the notes within any chord played. I've used my Sunn Model T through several other makes of cabs, friend's cabs, Marshall, Mesa, Peavey, Bogner, Engl etc., and while they're good cabs, in my opinion they're nowhere near as good as Orange. There's just something about them.
Thanks, and you're welcome. I think another factor that contributes to the overall sound is that Orange cabs have rubber skids attached to bottom giving more contact to the ground, thus more 'natural bass', if you like. Really enjoying your videos, keep them coming. :)
Johan...I'm not a guitar player but I liked the Marshall cab better. It seemed to have less bass than the Orange and would not muddy up the bass that would be playing with it. A better sound for the band mix? Do you think I'm crazy, because sometimes I over think things? Ha ha! That is my honest opinion. ;)
Well then I'm crazy too ;-) to fit a bass to the orange guitar it would need to be scooped beyond recognition. That's probably why there is seemingly no bass on the Metallica album "And justice for all" they probably didn't use orange though. Cheers Johan
...and this boys and girls is exactly why most Marshalls sound so thin and fizzy and Orange amps sound thunderous. Marshalls are already thinner sounding with lots of mids and these cabs just make them even worse. I have found a Marshall amp thru an Orange cab sounds amazing. The darker, more bottom end heavy cab really tames that Marshall fizz and makes them sound thicker and more full, especially when loaded with V30s. Also like to point out the huge difference in build quality here too. The Orange is night and day better just looking at them opened up. Orange amps and cabs are a bit pricey, but they are top notch quality and worth every penny.
It appears to me, you are mainly going to hear the difference of the grill cloth with it mic'd up that way? You need to do a room mic away from the cabs to hear the true tone of the cab. Of course the Sugar Cane cloth of the orange is thicker and will sound darker then the wide open sound of the checker weave of the Marshall.
bushkey Well, both yes and no, the grill cloth will only account for the differences in the highs, but I think the cabs are also quite different in the mids and lows. Cheers
Well I must really truly say I own an orange myself and I'm really partial to him the reason I own an orange is my fine they have the best sound of anything I ever heard before I believe they are much better than Marshalls fenders or any other manufacturer I ever run across and all my years They have a great price and they have a great sound system You get plenty good sound for the price that you pay you may pay more with other companies but I believe orange is number one
You played the Marshall a lot more actually ...but I think if you had used a Bogner or actually even better and Orange AMP (which are noticeably brighter than other amps) would have been a good experiment as well.
