1979 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am LS Engine Swap and Suspension at V8 Speed and Resto Shop Part 1

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PHOTO GALLERY OF BUILD:
v8speedshop.com/LS3_79_TA
Contact us for Muscle Car upgrades and restoration:
www.v8speedshop.com/contact - 314.783.8325. We're happy to help!
1979 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am LS Engine Swap and Suspension at V8 Speed and Resto Shop Part 1.
This 1979 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am was running the original 180 horsepower Oldsmobile 403 V8 engine, but our customer wanted more horsepower and better performance from his black TA. He brought the car to the V8 Speed & Resto Shop for an LS Engine Swap. The Trans Am will be much more fun to drive once the V8 Speed and resto Shop installs a GM Performance Parts LS3 V8 engine making over 480 horsepower backed by a 4L70E 4-speed automatic transmission. A Holley Dominator EFI system is also installed for reliability and tunability.
- We're Hiring! v8speedshop.com/jobs
However, upon inspection, the Trans Am revealed some rusty floors and previous repair work that was not up to the owner’s standards. The V8 team replaced the bad sheet metal with all new floors from Classic Industries and fabricated a custom firewall. The V8 Speed and Resto Shop is a one-stop muscle car restoration shop that replaces sheet metal on cars routinely.
Once the shell was solid again, they swapped in a complete Street Grip suspension system from Ridetech for better cornering and straight-line traction as well. Upgraded brakes from Wilwood were installed, along with a set of 17” Snowflake wheels from YearOne and new Nitto tires.
This is part one of a 3 part series, we’ll install the LS3 V8 in part 3!
Part 2: • 1979 Pontiac Firebird ...
Part 3: • 1979 Pontiac Firebird ...
PHOTO GALLERY OF BUILD:
v8speedshop.com/LS3_79_TA
Contact us for Muscle Car upgrades and restoration:
www.v8speedshop.com/contact - 314.783.8325. We're happy to help!
Pontiac Firebird Trans Am LS Engine Swap and Suspension Upgrades at V8 Speed and Resto Shop Part 1
V8 Speed & Resto Shop - In Our 20th Year In Business!
817 S. Main Street
Red Bud,IL 62278
314.783.8325
www.v8speedshop.com/contact
Email: resto@v8speedshop.com
FACEBOOK PAGE: / v8speedshop
INSTAGRAM: / v8speedandresto
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SUBSCRIBE: goo.gl/RIkdDS
V8 shirts, hats, and more:
v8speedshop.com/shop/
#v8speedandresto #v8speedshop #musclecar #transam #LS3 #v8speed

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2 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 149

@axjason 2 месяца назад

As my buddy and I used to call it, we called it a fire chicken

@TheDrunkardHu 4 года назад

I wish I had the resources to contract you boys... Ya'll are doing The Lord's work.

@V8TV 4 года назад

Thank you for the kind words! We hope you like part 2...

@johnnydoubleu3656 4 года назад

My first car was a 79 Trans Am....Bought it in 81 with 29,000 miles...Yellow w tan interior, Pontiac mags and T-tops.... The 403 olds is a technological wonder...Where else can you get such a big motor putting out so little power...Than again, the torque figures really were not bad....

@shannonbunch1003 4 года назад

I've probably said this 100 x's, but you guys do amazing work... You've put together a solid group of professionals and keep things simple, and fix it right the first time... Most shows out there have to much grab assing around and the shop looks like it was cut outa the Sema Show... Thank u for keeping it real...

@V8TV 4 года назад

Hey Shannon, thank you so much for the kind words. We're very fortunate to have a great team that loves their work, and building cool cars for great customers is the number one goal. Thanks again for taking the time to comment, we'll pass your feedback to the team, thanks again!

@pal54321 Год назад

masters at work

@mariozamprogno1654 4 года назад

Finally someone turning a fire chicken into an actual fire bird awesome

@krisrawk1817 4 года назад

Thats beautiful.. This has always been my dream car, i love watching videos of people bringing them back to life,

@V8TV 4 года назад

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!

@stephenalishaso 4 года назад

Keep them trans am rolling

@henrikcarlsen1881 4 года назад

Naa, it was a dud already then.

@jesuschristpose896 4 года назад

Had a 79 black on black ws6 trans am, loved that car so much, when I finally sold it I cried, it was like losing a family member.

@jesuschristpose896 3 года назад

@Allen Uber new baby, priority change, ex wife put me under a lot of pressure, biggest regret of my life.

@jesuschristpose896 3 года назад

@Allen Uber true, for some people, but not all, I know I did it once and that was enough for me.

@jesuschristpose896 3 года назад

@Allen Uber great plan, please stick to it, these cars are investments, that's what I could not convince my ex wife at the time.

@jesuschristpose896 3 года назад

@Allen Uber 1994

@NVRAMboi 4 года назад

The owner must *really* love that car. If so, I understand this. Not about money but about feelings attached to the car. I'm sure he'll enjoy having some HP when he punches the accelerator now.

@tucoramirez8397 4 года назад

The 403 was detuned for that car in 79. In the 80s my Dad had a 403 swapped into an Olds 98 that was really strong.

@byates59 4 года назад

I had a brand new 1975 T/A in 1975 and it was a great car but I would have loved to have an LS3 motor and an automatic transmission with more than 3 gears! Thanks!

@hydroplaneconvoy8130 4 года назад

A lot of guys have dreams. This is mine.

@MrJayo73 4 года назад

The way the factory should have built this car they looked fast and looked like a canyon carver and now it is both! Loved my '81, black with anniversary silver interior, silver bird and turbine wheels and a not so stock '75 455 and th400.

@thomasdauphin4550 Год назад

Beautiful car

@paulletchworth8127 4 года назад

I can tell you I owned a 1979 trans am and mine would burn the tires down and no power braking from a dead stand still through huge traffic intersection and I could out run the Pontiac 400 4 speed T/A cars , I may have had a freak but had awesome power for what it was , all I did was headers a tune , advanced the timing and cut out the back of the shaker to make it real cowl ram air , it woke the car up , it wasn’t as good as a LS 3 but it had More than 185HP

@jessicawells5145 4 года назад

There's not a thing wrong with the 403,before its rebuild my friend had over 200thousand miles on his,after the rebuild with parts from mondilo,an a little head porting, his T/A would dust any 90s mustang, real fun car to drive.

@rattle-can-resto5893 4 года назад

Olds 403 is a good engine, cam swap and aluminum heads with 9.8:1 compression will run with an ls3 all day.

@midsouth2strokes185 4 года назад

Yes a lot of bs about the 403 how they r bad engine which is ignorance. 70-72 350 rocket heads will wake them up very well

@racingjunk7024 3 года назад

Not even close .bad oiling system . Bad water flow and not even close to as reliable

@02WIFE 3 года назад

The Ls3 is kick ass

@t.l.robinson2162 3 года назад

Why build an Olds 403 when you can build an Olds 455 and have a boat load more torque.

@javiersanchez1661 3 года назад

@@midsouth2strokes185 I got 3 Oldsmobile 350 rocket motors. One needs to be rebuilt. 71 cutlass fastback, 71 cutlass supreme, and 72 cutlass supreme.

@jeffreynolds3848 4 года назад

Kevin - great vid & content, as always! I’m going to put a good word in for the 403 Olds! You may remember this from my comments on earlier vids. In ‘84 U.K., I bought a 9,000 mile only ‘79 3 sp auto TransAm that came with the 403. It turned out the Nov ‘78 manuf’d (for U.K.) was first registered in Nov ‘80 thro’ having stood in a stock yard in US for all the time in between in the US! The only ‘damage’ other than all the rusted shock piston rods was a small amount of corrosion to one of the std 7” snowflake rims. I replaced all the shocks with Bilstens. Working as we were at a railcar manufacturing company, my friend with his ‘77 TA 400 and me custom made the finest dual exhausts using the company tube bender at lunchtimes and Thrush expansion boxes. On my daily drive from home to work and often to & from girlfriend’s place, I got to learn how the get the best from the 403 Olds & 3-speed auto. Rather than use kick-down, I’d keep up speed and use the 3-to-2 and 2-to-1 half-throttle down-shift to gently kick the rear out a little more. So it does make my mouth water at the prospect of all those extra horses and modern suspension and brakes f your conversion!

@V8TV 4 года назад

Thanks for the feedback Jeffrey! The Olds is not inherentlly a bad engine, but it is a bit disappointing how much they de-powered it during that time period. Your time-honored hot rodding tricks helped make the best of the 403!

@jeffreynolds3848 4 года назад

V8TV - Haha Kevin! Thanks for your reply. I’m not a hotrodder, but I’m guessing they were after the same thing as us - to make it sound better as well as breathe better! You & US also have to understand how us Brits looked in reverence at ANY US V8 engined car! This is a big part of what made us easier to please. Truth be told, if we were to run anything significantly more powerful on anything other than at Santa Pod, it would have blown our minds before we probably would have then killed ourselves on our roads...?!

@avelezusmc7929 4 года назад

I must say these guys have a unique set of skills

@V8TV 4 года назад

Thank you for the positive feedback!

@panamared354 4 года назад

I don't think it's a big deal with that car, they made so many of them. Unless you had a low mileage and low production number. Thanks for sharing

@barcrrt850 4 года назад

Butler performance Pontiac 541 inch. See RU-vid V8TV Trans Am. Keep the heart a Pontiac!

@V8TV 4 года назад

This one was an Olds... never had a Pontiac heart! But we get your point, we've done the Butler 541, Pontiac 400, Pontiac 455s in Ponchos before. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-A1n4lpWXsUk.html

@plymouthdie-castreplicas 4 года назад

Impressive!

@turbolivesinmyheart6328 4 года назад

Not just an engine swap- they went "whole-hog" on that Indian. Nice.

@jeanninejeff5456 4 года назад

Love it, can't wait to see more.

@BraveNewwor1d 4 года назад

77-78 is the best years for trans am in the 70's.

@melsmith2669 4 года назад

This is a stunningly beautiful car.

@rbinatorr7761 4 года назад

My first car was an ‘80 Formula... 301ci, probably about 50hp left in it ...so slow

@willmills1370 3 года назад

I hear ya. I have one now with a 4 speed. And that's the only way to enjoy those little 4.9 ers.

@Stormbringer505 4 года назад

That will be a great trans am after it's souped up. I have missed your videos from the brothers collection and just wanted to ask where is the brothers collection I would pay good money to just walk thru and look at the cars. Enjoy

@bigredc222 4 года назад

It's not open to the public, they are supposed to be getting a museum ready that will be open to the public, I couldn't find out who they are, or how many cars they have, I wasn't even able to find out what state they are in.

@Stormbringer505 4 года назад

@@bigredc222 that's sad I would truly enjoy just walking thru it and seeing the collection.

@bigredc222 4 года назад

@@Stormbringer505 Your not alone.

@trekbsg 4 года назад

To clarify the statement of pontiac 400's and olds 403's both being available in '79, the pontiac 400 had been phased out by GM and the '79's that had the 400's were left over engines that had already been produced and when those ran out, the olds 403's were installed, so there wasn't an actual option between the two engines.

@benkenobi5128 Год назад

I saw this car in Rocky 2

@Formulabruce 4 года назад

TH2004R would fit with NO mods to the tunnel, stage 3 rebuild can handle all that power. Great Video!

@V8TV 4 года назад

We've done the 2004R swap in a Trans Am before, it's a good option. However, the tunability of the 4L70E makes a huge difference. As an aside, good 2004Rs are getting harder to find. Here's the one we did: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-znPL3DVwetg.html

@eaglewi 4 года назад

Why not a stick

@V8TV 4 года назад

@@eaglewi It was the customer's preference, he's got a couple other manual transmission cars and wanted this one to be an auto.

@eaglewi 4 года назад

@@V8TV I meant in order of difficulty

@V8TV 4 года назад

@@eaglewi Ah, yes. A manual 5 or 6 speed isn't a terrible job, the 5 speeds fit better than the 6s generally. You have to add the 3-pedal system, bellhousing, modify the transmission mount, possibly modify the floor for clearance, add a hydraulic clutch, interface the speedometer, integrate the console, and a few other steps. We've done lots of 5 and 6 speed conversions in Muscle Cars.

@ryanbrown3177 3 года назад

Beautiful Car, looks like Rodney Dangerfield fixin her up.

@micdogg187 3 года назад

I have a '78 with 49k original miles(was my grandmothers) with the 403 and I want to do an LS swap but i can't find a reputable shop in LA

@V8TV 3 года назад

We can help with transport if you want to send it our way, we'd be honored to work on your family heirloom!

@angeldustshusband8060 3 года назад

I plan on doing the same swap to the same year, I want around 450hp

@markim5087 3 года назад

Really sweet I was thinking of buying my son a trans am but we ended up buying a jeep from his older brother so he could do a Ls swap in his other jeep.. So now I’m sick and I’m a DVET wheelchair bound my dream is to have another Transam for myself and be able to get in it,I’ve been bed bound for going on 3 yrs almost..I’m probably nit going to be around too long so I’d like to be able to leave a Transam for my daughter with a LS package..so how much would it cost to install one in a solid Transam ?

@The000000007 4 года назад

DON'T FORGET THE 4.9 V8!

@myyoutstuff 4 года назад

How wide of a tire can you put in the rear fenderwell with that package?

@themalibumessiah4596 4 года назад

Got the same car but his is in nicer condition except I got barely any rust

@douglasschramm3017 4 года назад

I had 2 of them not bad not great off the line would still do 130mph at least

@V8TV 4 года назад

Contact us for Muscle Car upgrades and restoration: www.v8speedshop.com/contact - 314.783.8325. We're happy to help! Part 2: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OZCYMvLelwQ.html Part 3: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WUa4RL6ZRiw.html

@jacksmith3189 4 года назад

Only 1800 T/As came with a Pontiac 400 4spd (220 HP) The 403 Olds was never a collector car NEVER

@redskies2813 4 года назад

How much would this cost if I wanted you guys to do this stuff on my camaro

@kachuchu1234 2 года назад

What size tires did you use on the 17x9 wheels

@willmills1370 4 месяца назад

My black twin has the lame 301 with a 4 speed but this year both are going to the grave. 😢

@Liberty-Works1111 4 года назад

Not mad you lost the Pontiac... Sad you didnt use an LS7 lol :)

@TheDrunkardHu 4 года назад

Those are really sexy cars.

@marks4374 4 года назад

I had a 79 TA in the early 80’s. I loved the car until it was totaled in 85. 🙁

@ccdevil8879 4 года назад

That sucks

@matthewklosowski7851 3 года назад

4L60e behind an LS3? That’s ballsy

@davebarron5939 4 года назад

Hmmmm... If you flushed the firewall, does the new aftermarket AC have heat as well? Or?

@V8TV 4 года назад

+Dave Barron yes, heat and A/C in one unit.

@ccdevil8879 4 года назад

What these cars always should of been

@cristianserrano500 3 года назад

I got a 1979 espirit v6 whats the best engine swap for it ? If you don’t mind helping

@racingjunk7024 3 года назад

Ls then ls then ls again .i have a turbo iron 6.0 can’t beat the power to price and reliability

@thamechanic3324 4 года назад

I bought one on May 6 1984... How I wish I didn't sell it 😭😞 😣😫....

@automech01 4 года назад

No WS6 to start with?

@rizvanstinson177 2 года назад

only 2years to buy my baby 😩😍

@chrisbenthall9718 4 года назад

I would have gotten a Pontiac engine

@just_2swift 4 года назад

Smoky and the bandit

@rrmech11 4 года назад

👍👍

@Franklin3792 Год назад

Instead of Leaf springs why not a 4 coil suspension like the GTO..

@catsupchutney 4 года назад

I gotta know the dinero involved for this restification.

@vincentdarsch6429 4 года назад

Suprised they didn't go with a 4link suspension

@thelocustemperor 2 года назад

Wouldn't it be easier to just build the entire car from scratch, order every part possible with the exception of what you can't like the frame/etc. Might actually be cheaper and please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no pro or anything.

@slickrock1371 4 года назад

Where are you?

@hirthirthirt1693 4 года назад

Never got why aftermarket EFI-systems on a LS3...it is already a fuel injected engine.....and surely the origjnal is better suited for the motor than a more primitive aftermarket EFI

@V8TV 4 года назад

That's a great question. And while it's true the OE systems are more sophisticated, they also contain code and functions we just don't need, like theft deterrent, body control modules, etc. The other aspect is that they are a couple steps trickier to tune. The Holley system is a true self-tuning system, saving dozens of hours of calibrating needed with the factory ECM. The Factory ECM requires credits and a cable interface, and additional software. The Holley systems allow you to get up and running quickly, and then the system self-modifies the calibration while you drive. However, we do perform factory style ECM installs and are capable of tuning those as well, like we recently did on a supercharged LT4 Camaro.

@Sleepy82407 2 года назад

How much does this cost?

@danielweinbaum 4 года назад

IS THIS THE CAR THAT WAS RESTOMODDED FOR GRANDMA ? I MEAN WHO ELSE WOULD WANT AN AUTO TRANS ? YOU GUYS WILL BE SO SORRY WHEN THERE ARE NO MORE CLUTCH PEDALS ! MY 24 YEAR OLD DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT A CLUTCH WAS !!! SAD DAYS BOYS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Cliff00936 4 года назад

I guess Butler engines cost more than LS ones do?

@racingjunk7024 3 года назад

Way more butler is great stuff but building a 400 or 455 is big money

@billthompson5644 4 года назад

Did that 403 have 6 to 1 compression? Another piece of GM junk. With my friends 77 454 170 horsepower

@V8TV 4 года назад

Yeah, that was a dismal time for GM Performance as the OEs scrambled to figure out emissions. De-tuning engines was their strategy, and it didn't go well.

@billthompson5644 4 года назад

@@V8TV but I still enjoy your videos

@V8TV 4 года назад

@@billthompson5644 Thanks Bill, we appreciate you hanging out with us!

@genghisfimpley3516 Год назад

Sir that will be 100k

@christopherbeasley9998 3 года назад

Well it would be considered a track only car in ca cuz of emmisions crap! I would never do that to mine. Would be off highway car here. 🙁In CA.

@user-nq3gf1jt6g 2 года назад

格好いいよね。世界一❗格好いい車だと思います。FerrariやMercedes-Benz…BMX等ドイツやフランスの車が有りますが、このアメリカのポンテェヤック、トランザムが一番…好きです…昔、近くのチンピラが白のトランザムに乗ってスラッシュ―のマフラーで、タイヤが太くて後ろのファンダーに当たる位にゴツイタイヤを入った、トランザムが鷹の絵が水色で最高でした。１日だけど貸して貰って神戸港まで行きましたが、スラッシュ―のマフラーで耳がギンギンになったのを覚えてますが、その後❗カゾリンスタンドで強盗して、竹田街道で対向車と激突してボロボロになったのを目の辺りにしたのを覚えてます。格好いい車でしたよ。本当に❗カワクン‼️

@V8TV 2 года назад

うわー、それはかなりの話です！車が気に入ってくれてうれしいです。運が良くなり、いつか所有できるようになることを願っています。

@WalkenDead 4 года назад

yeah those floors had been patched before.....poorly

@user-ss2ly1ir6j 4 года назад

Not a bad idea if ya got an extra 50 to 60K laying around...

@alexishuerta9087 Год назад

This is easily 10k at most😂

@mikemurphree1348 4 года назад

That bird is actually a Phoenix not a chicken . As in a Phoenix rising from the ashes thus firebird.

@douglasschramm3017 4 года назад

Mig welding is better too slow and expensive for factory

@BMW_DAILY 2 года назад

Does anybody hear Ron Swanson?

@BMW_DAILY 2 года назад

2nd point but why a 4L60E? Unless they're built up, they're really weak and unreliable.

@vannjunkin8041 3 года назад

Drop a 400 in it.

@2ndsspz 6 месяцев назад

poopy 403, GONE!

@guardians75 4 года назад

Not a fan of the swaps i like the original look and sound, i have a 78 with the factory 400 and 4-spd manual, was lucky enough to get burt reynolds to sign glove box door few years back, everyone has their own style definitely wont bash swapping engines just not my cup of tea

@axjason 2 месяца назад

Who cares what motor is in it as long as it’s a GM motor all the same yeah I get the nostalgic part but who cares it’s a GM motor in a GM vehicle

@Franklin3792 Год назад

The 403 Sucked... NO POWER!! But Id' drop in a Pontiac YS 400..

@LandonRoy-cv9rt 4 года назад

The fact you used seam sealer shows you so t have a welder, well maybe you do but he probably blows, why go through all that and just to spot weld

@V8TV 4 года назад

Not sure what you mean by this comment Landon. These cars were built from the factory with resistance spot welders, and we elected to restore the body to as-new condition using the same techniques. We have highly skilled welders and fabricators on staff, using MIG, TIG welding all the time when the project calls for it. The seam sealer is also a required step, done cleaner than GM did originally. Nothing gets hidden by sealer in this shop. Hope this clarifies. Thanks for the feedback.

@AnnatarTheMaia 4 года назад

Dear Mr. Oeste: automatic transmission on such an iconic car is an utter waste of said car. I'm sad. Post scriptum: will we ever live to see a Duramax-swapped muscle car with a DPF (no "coal rolling") with a manual transmission?

@V8TV 4 года назад

Thanks for the feedback. Each owner has his / her preference, and this one has a couple other cool cars with manual transmissions. As for the Duramax, that's an interesting idea... we know of a Chevelle, but can't recall the trans. Think it's an Allison.

@AnnatarTheMaia 4 года назад

@@V8TV oh wow, I never expected an answer, this is a really nice surprise. Diesel swaps often have Allison transmissions because of the torque handling requirements. I researched this somewhat and came to the conclusion that the Tremec TR-6060 Magnum variant should be able to handle the Duramax. Another option would be the seven-speed TR-SO66-7B medium duty truck manual transmission; that one goes up to 900 Nm, with a dog-first gear. The torque and power output of the Duramax would have to be de-tuned, as it will generate up to 1,424 Nm of torque.

@mt1885 4 года назад

Rather build the 403 and keep the car looking stock (hope they don't put them big ugly wheels on there.

@nathanweber2233 3 года назад

I have one with the 403 in it and that bitch drags the rear bumper

@engir63 4 года назад

"gold bird" it is a chicken and yea older people are going to think of the stupid movie just like when they see a DeLorean

@mikemurphree1348 4 года назад

It is a Phoenix not a chicken, Its mythical

@superduty4556 4 года назад

Nope.

@billmeyer3728 2 года назад

I love your 1979 Blackbird engine swap! Check out my 1985 Blackbird engine swap on my channel!

@turbolivesinmyheart6328 4 года назад

OK- here we go. Start the abuse. The only way to make a Pontiac go fast- put a Chevy engine in it. I got a good friend with a GTO and I tell him that in fun.

@racingjunk7024 3 года назад

I’m a ls guy so. I agree but you can make some big a** pont motors that can run

@mikethemaster9280 4 года назад

Went in for a motor swap.. came out raped with all kinds of up sells

@frednorma1 4 года назад

No no no

@joejones6968 4 года назад

Come on man, us "regular" folks couldn't afford your labor to even attempt such a mod-resto. This is unrealistic and only cators to the very rich. These videos are all the same, "we had to do this in order to do that".... It's getting old and to be honest, not very interesting anymore...

@V8TV 4 года назад

+Joe Jones we share our customer's cool cars and the talents of our team. If it's not something you're interested in, then by all means spend your time on something you like.

@justinjonbaugh 4 года назад

I kinda have to agree with this. It's pretty much just bolt ons from the same parts bins. It's an awesome car, no doubt. But, not very interesting viewing.

@V8TV 4 года назад

@@justinjonbaugh Did you watch part 3 with the completely fabricated functional shaker hood air intake? Yes there are some bolt-ons, and fabricated stuff as well, like the firewall. Thanks!

@justinjonbaugh 4 года назад

@@V8TV I do like the fabricated stuff. That firewall plug is art.

@joejones6968 4 года назад

@@V8TV I'll agree that yes, you and your team have Avery good and skillful talent. But really at the end of it all your "customer" will have a fortune sunk into it, way more then he/she could ever began to recover at auction, or private sell, To be honest, you yourself wouldn't even purchase this vehicle for cost after you and your crew get done with it, And what's worse, is that you know I'm right. Your customers are forced to keep them, either at bay in their garages never to be seen be me or other enthusiasts again, or they'll pass it down to some family member that'll wind up destroying it, never to be seen again, by mu or other enthusiasts. Im not saying you don't do great work. Because you do understand a positive/negative effectiveness? Am I right?