@@kevincheadle5366 same 16, I did back west tip in the grand national and did expect to back the derby winner to! Also had sharood and the French horse Arokar each way, but they didn’t do anything
Just got all misty eyed reliving the past when me and a few friends used to go and watch the races I went to Epsom and to Paris, what a great day out that was. The Brits went crazy. I wasn't even a fan but I never forgot Dancing Brave, what a superstar. A great, great horse. So exciting to watch. Near the back and then just blows everyone else away. When I think of sporting heroes from the eighties for me it's Marvin Hagler, Alex Higgins and Dancing Brave.
Saw Dancing Brave here in America when he ran in the Breeders' Cup Turf at Santa Anita in '86. A horse called Manila beat him that day. If I recall correctly, DB was a bit unsettled, pre race.
Greville Starkey, Pat Eddery & Walter Swinburn. 3 great jockeys all involved in the story of the mighty brave & all of them sadly no longer with us. RIP Grev, Pat & Walter & thanks for the memories.
When you take this ride into consideration, you cannot call Starkey a great. It was a great tragedy. Whether it was corruption or incompetence is not important to me. It was absolutely dreadful. Still painful in 2021.
Alistair i too am 56 and on that day i had £40 on sharastani i felt sorry for dancing brave a better horse by far What was starkey doing should have covered up mid field moved up round tattenham then home sharastani would not have caught him Alistair im too much of a gentlemen to accuse wrongdoing but i am deeply worried by a top jockey riding like that to b honest that ride by starkey stunk
@@indiana146 I backed Dancing Brave every time he ran including ante post at 16/1 for 2000 Guineas. Had double at Epsom with Midway Lady 7/2 winner of Oaks. Pat Eddery wouldn't have lost the Derby but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
@@digeme69 ive watched the race many times i still cant wonder what starkey was doing sat at the back Ive watched races where a horse has been pulled its been easy to spot I would not think a man of starkeys standing would b involved in that But makes you wonder He rode like he didnt want to win Which jockey dropped his hands and more or less stopped riding on El gran senor
@@indiana146 Was the last part a question? It was Pat but I'm not sure he dropped his hands, it was more a case of hitting the front too soon. Anyway its all what ifs and Pat was a great rider(99% of the time). From memory I recall horse like Deep Sensation and Morley St over the jumps. If they hit the front too soon they stopped racing
My mate had £100 at 33's, £100 at 16's and another £100 at 6's on the day on Shahrastani, I'll never forget the look of anguish on his face during that final furlong... He was lucky that day and history would prove the best horse lost, but Shahrastani was a very good horse on his day, he was very impressive in the Irish Derby and if I remember started favourite when they next met for the rematch in the K.George.
I had been backing Shahrastani for weeks before the race. Not quite as much as that but I was screaming for the winning post all the way down that final furlong.
I was left £5000 in an old aunty's will I helped her every winter she lived in the sticks and I did her shopping every week I didn't exspect nor wanted anything So I got 25/1 very early reference point bloody hell I bought a house with winnings
Every time I watch this race I am in awe of Dancing Brave - ridden like a non-stayer by Starkey (of course at this stage of his career they couldn't be sure he would get the mile and a half) and then having a rough passage the horse still almost won, and the acceleration in those final 2 furlongs still sends shivers down my spine. Sharastani, a good horse in his own right, only ever glimpsed a disappearing backside of Dancing Brave from there onwards in their careers. Frankel was amazing, but for me, in 50 years watching Racing, this horse was the best I ever saw.
The night before the derby Starkey was asked if his horse would stay the trip and said he would stay the ascot gold cup so he could not have ridden the horse like a non stayer
The most powerful stretch drive ever scene on a course of all time from Dancing Brave no horse in history had that much power as a 3yo ust imagine if he ran at 4.
the actual fastest finisher in the Derby for the last Furlong is Sir Ivor in 1968. D.B.s run was from 3. and a 1/2 furlongs out. so his finish was more of a sustained run rather than the blinding speed that Sir Ivor showed. Not altogether certain that he was as unlucky as is thought the way the race was run i.e slow pace. winning time was 2.37 over Six seconds above the record. . He was a brilliant horse from then on esp. in the Arc.
I honestly don't think he acted around Tattenham,he looked so unbalanced,and also, watch Mashkour,which incidently put up the fasted time in the final furlong,Dancing Brave shot past him like a bullet,but Mashkour was actually catching him in the final furlong,it was a case of Shahrastani acting on the track,and sadly Dancing Brave not.
He was all over the place, coming in to the straight, take nothing away from Shahrastani though, he was a top drawer colt in his own right, but DB is the the best colt I've seen.
Its So Painful to watch...Greville couldn't settle him.. "" oh so much to do "".. What an astounding understatement... Dancing Brave's Greatness will be judged on many things.. But for me, any Horse fast enough to win the 2000 Guineas.. Then Defeat older horses in the Greatest race, the Arc , has to be considered Great.. Not Sea Bird, Frankel, Ribot, The Brigadier, or Mill Reef did that...And to think the Horse would have barely been a 3 Yr old when running in the Derby.. With todays Guineas being run in late May now, Dancing Brave would have won his Guineas as a 2 Yr old.. That's Greatness for me..
Won a £10 free straight forecast bet with the Daily Mirror and picked Sharastani to finish 1st and Dancing brave 2nd, won quite a bit of money that day.
Wow! What a race horse! He made up nearly 28 lengths in the final 3 furlongs. You just don't see that happen. Finest distance specialist ever to set foot on a European race track. Frankel was not as complete a racehorse as was the great Dancing Brave.
Jackie Dyson I never seen in my life a more impressive series of wins than those of Dancing Brave in the Eclipse, King George and the Arc. I am always impressed by the the comment ".. but owe soo much to do.. " when it is clear that Dancing Brave is the Best but does not have the chance to prove this.
I backed sharastani here , was gutted when he was only 4th in king george, he wasnt right that day sweated profusely, ran a lot better in the Arc but dancing brave was obviously a superstar tho ......
Can't believe to this day The bookies still had sharastani favourite in the king George.When pat and the brave swooped past the whole bookies I was in erupted. Everyone had backed him. If I remember shadari came 2nd .
RIP Greville Starkey, but it was his fault Dancing Brave didn't win. Well done Shahrastani and Walter Swinburn ( I was lucky to see them win the Irish Derby the same year and get Walter's autograph afterwards...he was a gentleman, RIP).
My favourite racehorse of all time, dancing brave was a absolute machine of a horse, his turn of foot was unbelievable, saw this race millions of times and each time a think dancing brave was going to catch shahrastini, jockey gave him to much to do, greatest ever,,
It still hurts to watch! If I remember correctly Dancing Brave was reported slightly injured 5 days before the race and drifted to 11/2 ante post. Had a big bet by my standards and doubled up with Midway Lady in The Oaks. Got my money back in the following months King George. Without doubt my favourite racehorse.
It annoys me that so many racing fans tend to forget how great a ride Walter Swinburn gave Sharastani, too busy slagging off poor Greville Starkey who didn't give Dancing Brave as bad a ride as people say, it all came down to one thing - Walter Swinburn's push for home at exactly the right time, if he had left it any later to kick on then DB would have won and Greville would have been hailed a hero for timing his run to perfection, as I've said it all came down to a brilliant ride Swinburn gave the winner, the unfair criticism of Greville probably hurt him more than we'll ever know
@tony McGrath Greville Starkey said that Dancing Brave was "bombproof" over a mile and a half. If this was the case he should NEVER have had the horse so far back. Terrible ride, plain and simple.
Are you serious @tonymcgrath700 ? Wake up and smell the coffee🙈 Dancing Brave was the best horse in the race. As long as the jockey had Dancing Brave in and around the first 3 with 2 furlongs left to race, there was no doubt whatsoever who would win. Swinburn gave his horse a brilliant ride, no one doubts that, but Starkey's performance "on that day", was abysmal!!!
@@KryptonitetoallBSGreville has gone on record saying Dancing Brave didn't handle Tattenham corner, firstly Greville Starkey never had the luxury of knowing whether he would stay 1m 4f, if he had been up with the pace like you say do you believe he would have had the same speed he showed when coming from the back like he did? he may well have been outbattled and outstayed by a underated Derby winner in Sharastani, if the race was half a furlong more then Sharastani still wins the race. When people say DB's finish was so fast then what do they expect when they walked the first mile until quick thinking Walter knew he had to go for home early in the straight to stand any chance of winning, he was never going to get caught after the slow early pace
@@tonymcgrath700 You're in denial mate. You're alone thinking that Dancing Brave wasn't the best horse in the race. Starkey was a professional jockey. Given one of the greatest horses of all time he should have easily won the race as Pat Eddery did in the King George.
Greville Starkey said that Dancing Brave wasn't travelling well early on. He only needed to have had him a little nearer the middle of the field turning Tattenham Corner to have won easily.
A phenomenal performance by DB, it’s odd but this elevated him more in defeat than in victory, can’t say that about many races. Every time I watch it I just keep expecting him to get there but oh so much to do
Dancing Brave losing was the story but looking back, watch Mashkour and Steve Cauthen, troubled passage and flew into third. Not sure what happened to that horse after this.
The best way to make sure you will not win an Epsom Derby is to be out the back at Tattenham Corner. I'm afraid Greville (RIP) made a complete and utter horlicks of things.
Watching this back, as has been noted by others, I think that Dancing Brave did not pick up immediately when Greville Starkey asked him to coming round Tattenham Corner, at the 3 furlong marker. This was probaby due to the course undulations of Epsom. Those critical lost lengths I think cost him the race unfortunately. So I am not so sure it is fair to criticise Greville if the horse did not respond as he was expected to. If you watch closely, it took an age before DB reached top gear and when he finally did, he fairly flew past the others but just just missed out on catching Sharastani. So I would say the tricky Epsom Downs beat him more than anything else the jockey could have done. Still a fanatatic finish to the race even if the best horse lost.
One point that is invariably missed is how DB drifted from a straight line in the last furlong while Sharhrastani kept on straight. If only DB had run striaght from the 1f pole he would have won.
The irony of GG at 2.40 stating 3FL out dancing brave is in I known territory ! That’s key to why he was held up ive seen harwood say this .had to be held up and and such a slow race and tracked fcked for me starkey not to blame
@@DavidS-zq8tz over a mile it would be close...over 10f and 12f The Brave toys with Frankel...too much finishing kick and Frankel never beat anythng anywhere Dancing Braves quality...
@@DavidS-zq8tz i even thnk Pat Eddery was that nice of a guy that he would even give Tom Queally a nice wave as he sauntered past him with 50yds to go!
It doesn't matter that he was 2nd,'cause everyone knows it was Starkey's exaggerated waiting tactics that cost DB an easy Derby victory,and history shows that the 1986 Arc was probably one of the hottest races of the century.....Dancing Brave was ridden by Pat Eddery and he ran further than any other horse in the race, yet still came storming home on the out side to win cosily.....setting new record for The Arc in the process.
Dancing Brave had too much to do at Tattengam Corner x but the track didn't suit him x he had his days afterwards x Shahrastani deserved it on the day. x.
hello denis thank you for reply i was big fan of bill o,gorman,s horses brondesbury was my fav horse still is the most exciting horse i ever saw just cannot get any recording,s of this fantastic horse
@@williambeekman5383 have you or any others got any footage of Sublimity winning the Champion Hurdle, every race from the last 30 years in on here, yet type in Sublimity and you cant get anything. He got back from 200/1 to 16's , he was up against the best 3 horses at the time, yet he made them look like donkeys, from 4 furlong out he was never going to lose. I got given him as a tip, me mate had 500ew on at 25/1 , i didnt have that kind of money so had 20ew at 16s and was happy at that.
Sorry Sunburst 75 l cant agree with your comments about Greville to my mind Dancing Brave just wasnt suited to Epsom and l it was a miracle he came second with the amount of ground he made up was unbelievable.
Horrible trip! Clearly the best horse that day. Does anyone know the time of the last furlong? I would guess that it was faster than the proceeding furlongs.
If starky had bee 2 lenghts nearer at the 3 furlong pole he would have won it easy.A travesty.My favourit horse of all time and ive seen the best.He won over all distances.The ark was brilliant.Its a shame he didnt do that well at stud,though did produce a derby winner so not all bad.
I agree . When you think of it k Abdulla has probably had the best horses of all time with frankel and dancing brave Also zafonic was another who should have been greater .
THE Fastest final furlong recorded by any horse in the Derby was by Dancing Brave and somewhat tragically he still was denied the win because of a terrible terrible ride from Starkey
@@StephenSmall-sf5um el Gran senor didn’t run enough times over a mile, I’d say sonic lady was better and Rock of Gibraltar, Zilzal. It was a great guineas, but one great race doesn’t make a great horse. It’s what I’f really, I’f El Gran Senor stuck to mile races and remained injury free notching up several group 1 Mile races he could claim to be an all time great. The same is true with Golden Fleece, impressive in all his pre derby races and the derby itself, but through no fault of his own not being able to run again means he couldn’t prove his greatness.
I am not an avid watcher of great group 1 horses but for me, Dancing Brave is the class horse , only matched by Galileo and Sea The Stars, who were bettered by the best horse in history, Frankel.
Having watched the race again it's clear Dancing Brave is struggling from the five furlong pole. This isn't Pat Eddery's debatable ride on El Gran Senor in the 1984 Derby where he may have blown it. Eddery had Dancing Brave the same distance back in the Arc as Starkey did here and nearer to the finish. The truth is that while Dancing Brave picked up quickly in the Arc he didn't pick up quickly here. Probably him not handling Epsom and not all horses do handle it. Dubai Millennium won nine races from ten and his only defeat was a ninth in the Derby.
Watch this race over and over again,,dancing brave was the much better horse,,really poor place to be,,and not a clear run,,plus I think dancing brave responce was not instant,,,made his move about 3 furlongs out,,,he had so much to do,,but didn’t really get him going until 1 1/2 furlongs out,,but came like a train then,,but to much to do,,,it’s like when asked to quicken,,it’s not instant,,but when he does quicken,,it’s breath taking,,,wrong place,,not clear run,,,to much to do,,,bad jocky ship,,,mid field,,he would have won on bridle,,,but what a horse,,as we seen in the arc,, They don’t come about often,,just a shame this derby was his for the taking,,when we know,he could have won this race by 5L or more,,,,brilliant horse,,,I even bet him that day,,had my money back in the arc though,,r,I,p mighty dancing brave
Dancing Brave an awesome horse, Frankel a great miler but.................never forget that Brigadier Gerard only got beat when giving 11 pounds to the '72 Derby Winner Roberto, he then reappeared in the QE2 and won easily smashing the track record and.......he beat two subsequent Arc de Triomphe winners in Mill Reef '71 and Rheingold '73......no other horse EVER managed that !
DANCEING BRAVE WAS THE BEST HORSE I SEEN IN 30 YEARS GREVILLE STARKEY GOT SLATED FOR THE WAY HE RODE HIM BUT THAT'S THE WAY HE WAS TOLD TO RIDE HIM I BELIEVE. GREVILLE MISJUDGED HIS RUN ON THE GRAVEYARD THE REST IS HISTORY 🏇🏇
Greville Starkey was the blame for Dancing Braves defeat he rode a shocking race thus why he never sat on the wonder horse again they put a real jockey on it with Pat Eddery RIP Pat godbless
Starkey rode him in the Eclipse and was injured for the king George. After that race Pat Eddery became the retained Jockey for Khalid Abdullah. So he rode Dancing Brave in the Arc and the breeders Cup. It's true though that Starkey gave him a little too much to do. But on a doubtful stayer, saving his speed for the straight was probably the most obvious gameplan.
@@chivasteele Starkey was quoted as saying that Dancing Brave was "bombproof" over a mile and a half when asked did he think the horse would stay. If that's the case he shouldn't have had the horse so far back. Terrible ride......nothing else.
Dancing Brave needed a strong pace to show his blistering acceleration. Unfortunately, Starkey, his jockey, didn't adapt to the race. Hindsight is wonderful, but a good judge of pace should have told Starkey to push Dancing Brave into a challenging position at the mile pole before the descent to Tattenham Corner. Khaled Abdulla, Dancing Brave's owner, later took Pat Eddery on as a retained rider, so after the Eclipse victory, it appeared that Starkey was unfairly jocked off, but I suspect the decision had been made long before.
He wasn't unfairly jocked off. I'm not going to slag him off because he's now deceased sadly. However, I've not seen a worse ride in a Group 1 ever and I've been watching racing since 1983.
I still find this hard to watch. In his defence you can see he doesn't get a chance to get him right on the bridle till about a furlong out. I do think other jockeys would have got him home though. But it is very sad this, still.
Greville was unfairly criticised for his riding of Dancing Brave that day. The horse was going up in trip from a mile to a mile and a half. Therefore he was going to be running much slower than he had before because of the race distance . For the vast majority of such types it is far easier to settle them in behind other horses. If not settling it loses too much energy for the finish and the horse does not stay the trip. Also - unusually for an Epsom Derby - the pace was slow even for a mile and a half. This was mentioned twice in Goode's commentary... And impossible to make up ground before the straight in such a tight, big field, because you'd have to go so wide. Despite the slow pace Starkey got Dancing Brave settled; but the problem is when a horse is held up towards the back he's trying to make ground as its rivals are themselves quickening. It is a testament to how great the horse was in getting so close to Shahrastani. A horse has seldom if ever gone so fast down that hill. Greville lost the ride on the horse because of this race; but in truth Pat Eddery did exactly the same thing on Dancing brave in the Arc De Triomphe. Holding him up for a late run to make use of that devastating turn of foot. It could easily have gone the same way as Epsom,.However, this time those in front early went faster in the early stages, Pat won going away and got all the acclaim for a brilliant ride. Before the race I believed Dancing Brave would not stay the trip and backed Shahrastani. I was proved wrong but because of the pace still won. That's Racing.
All that for an excuse 🙈 Dancing Brave was the best horse in the race at that distance and if the jockey had DB in the top 3 with 2 furlongs to go.........Race Over. Don't over-complicate things, it's that simple 👍
