A few words of caution, I would not use a piece of welding rod to bleed off the vapor in the small tank to fill it up. You might damage the small valve inside the tank and it would have a small but permeant leak. Use a old propane torch tip that screws on correctly and won't damage the valve. The second thing you should do is get a exact tare weight of the small tank when it is completely emptied of pressure and write it on the side of the 1lb. bottle. It will help stop you from over filling the tank which is very dangerous. Most Propane gas is half the weight of water which is 8.32828 per gallon. If by chance your supplier has blended Propane with Butane which is heavier you still should be safe. I transported liquified petroleum gas I loaded at refineries 10,000 gallons at a time down the highways for many years.
looks good, I do the same thing too. one tip, be sure to purge the air from the hose before you connect to the small tank, otherwise you have to bleed the air from the hose out of the small tank .. love your videos, keep up the good work..👍
I've done hundreds of these refills now. 60-80F big tank and a Frozen small tank and it will do a full fill in one shot. No need to burp, or purge. The "air" is simply warmed up propane. Fill all of these to 32oz/2lbs, give or take 2-3oz. Any more and the small cylinder will balloon up like a bomb when it warms up to 70-80F(scary!). If you do overfill bleed off the excess before you let it warm up to room temp.
I have been doing this for years and the first thing that confuses folks is pressure. Within a couple seconds the pressure in both cylinders is the same. After that it is simply a gravity feed from the large cylinder to the smaller cylinder. NOT PRESSURE AT ALL. The lower the 1 lb bottle is the faster it will feed. I start with an empty 1 lb and time the fill. It is generally between 6 or 8 max minutes. I do check them with a scale as well. That "Schreuder valve" on top is a safety that will open and let gas escape if the bottle is overfilled and for whatever reasons the 1 lb bottle gets heated by the sun or ?. When propane or any other gas gets heated it grows by volume. There has to be enough space in the bottle to accommodate that, if not the valve will open until a safe pressure is achieved. That is the only time pressure is an issue. It is also why large propane bottles are painted white. 1 lb bottles are only filled to about 3/4 of capacity so when beside a BBQ they don't vent because of the heat.
@@francoispouliot Check my post above. It explains everything. It takes about 8 min for a gravity fill to 3/4. Gas pressure is equalized in a few seconds. It is the gravity feed/transfer through a very small hole that takes the time.
Why is he “ burping” the gas off before filling. Isn’t he just releasing vapors that he’s immediately going to replace? If you are going to “burp” it should be during the filling process with the valve in the higher position to make room for more liquid? Sorry but this bugs me.
Love it...saves so much money refilling. Only thing I do different is I use Leather Gloves( freeze fingers protection) also have 20# on table upside down and 1# is lower than the fill valve. love the hose with paddle valve...It makes it soooo much easier just like the one you have. Thanks for posting Video
I have worked in the refrigeration and a/c business and filled refrigerant bottles like this for years and with refrigerants you have to cool one cylinder down to get the transfer to happen, pretty much the same deal here except the boiling temps are different. When I see a steel tool being used to depress the valve in the bottle, that concerned me, using a brass rod or drift wouldn’t cause a spark and a potential explosion.
Propane is a saturated vapor and pressure depends ONLY on temperature, not fill level. 'burping air' is just releasing some propane and doesn't help aside from boiling off a little liquid lowering the temperature and thus pressure. Flow will continue until the temperature is equalized. In order to fill a 1lb tank you need a temperature differential and the easiest way is to put the 1lb bottles in the freezer, then quickly fill before it has a chance to warm up. Alternately you could immerse it in ice water or something but might as well keep it simple. Experimentally I've found that a 20lb tank mostly full at 70F fully fills a frozen 1lb bottle at -10F in one shot. Overdo the temp differential and it can overfill significantly even in one go, so be careful. With no pressure in the empty 1lb tank that's approx 15psi atmospheric. Propane at 70F is 122psi. As soon as you start adding liquid to the tank it will boil and make the 1lb tank colder, but once the pressure rises it will condense into liquid again and overall the bottle heats up increasing the pressure beyond its initial temperature. This is why you don't get that 8:1 fill ratio you'd expect from a 15psi to 122psi differential. Simple process: Weigh your empty cylinders. Let the 20lb propane tank warm up to room temperature (set it inside during the winter eg) and put your 1lb bottles in a deep freezer. To fill (outside) turn the 20lb tank upside down then open the valve. With the empty 1lb tank attached Quickly open the valve to fill the 1lb cylinder until temperature equalizes (usually less than 1 minute). Weigh the filled cylinder to make sure it isn't overfilled. If it is burp it and adjust your temperatures/times. I usually fill mine to .7lb to 1.1lb. Any more and I get nervous - never had a problem with up to 1.2lb though. Like you said never touch the relief valve. It isn't designed to re-seal reliably since it is a safety only.
I've had one since the 70's. Mine is hard pipe with a 90 degree bend in it so the small tank hangs below off the edge of the table. One thing you can try is put the big tank in the sun for awhile and the little tanks in the freezer. Suppose to aid in the transfer.
Hey that sounds exactly like what I built. I've been reusing the same bottle for decades. Use needle nose pliers to pull out on the valve while filling. But test to ensure it closes due to seating properly.
By a second hose cut the close to the 20 lbs tank make sure the 1lbs tank is empty put a hand vaccum pump (dont use a eletric one for flammable gas) the hose pull a vaccum on the small tank switch hose to fill hose fill it right up no air to let out
My dad was doing that more than 50 years ago LOL. Sometimes he would warm the parent tank with warm water just a little bit to increase its pressure to speed up the process.
They have a fitting that doesn't need the hose, so it's tank to tank. I put the 1lb tanks in the freezer and weigh in the charge, it speeds things along. LIKED
When you are done filling and it is time to vent the hose, put the big tank right side up first, and then straighten the hose vertically above the big tank. That will drain the liquid out of the hose. Then you are venting gaseous propane instead of liquid propane. That way you waste a lot less.
I would leave the tank hooked up, shut off the orange valve, drain off some pressure, open valve. As soon as you drain off some pressure, the liquid propane is evaporating and building up the pressure again, hence the above procedure.
To further boost the cheap: get your 20# tanks refilled where they charge you by the gallon you refill instead of doing the tank swaps. The tank swap places only fill the tanks to 15# for "safety reasons" and if you have any propane left in the tank you're trading in, then you get no credit for it. Tractor Supply refills 20# propane tanks by the gallon and it's less than $3 per gallon here in the mid-atlantic, so you get a full 20# tank for less than the 15# you get from the swappers/Blue Rhino.
yup. Getting them refilled by the gallon is a much better deal. I have also heard that they're only 75% full at the trade in places. I get mine refilled at tractor supply as well.
So true. I read that an empty tank weighs 18.3 lbs. I did a swap and the new tank only weighed 31.9. so in the end I paid 20$ for about 13.5 lbs. Looking for a place that refills now.
+1. My dad had a refrigeration service business. He bought R-12 refrigerant in 180 lb drums & we refilled our 20 lb service drums by first putting them in the freezer. Made loading the small drums much quicker.
Lay an electric heating pad on your 20lb tank, and as others have said freeze the small 1lb cans prior. Will create a larger pressure difference between the two tanks, therefore give you a faster fill rate.
I just filled two by putting them in the freezer for 5 minutes. They filled faster than this gentleman. I did use the needle nose to vent the bottle so I didn't have to go back and forth.
If you wanted to fill the container by weight, and you know what the total gross weight should be, go ahead and purge your line as you did. Weigh the canister as it is without the hose. Note the weight. At this point you know how much has to be added to fill the can. Attach it to the canister and note the weight with the hose attached, just make sure the hose isn't rubbing against anything. Now that you know the weight of the canister and the hose, fill the canister as you have been doing, adding the appropriate amount of liquid to the combined weight. When you are done, disconnecting the hose and weighing the canister should give you the proper fill. Legally, I don't think you can fill these containers and transport them on a public hiway or road, but what you do on your own property is your business. We do the same on refrigeration equipment. Jim
Yes definitely, a lot of Stupid in this video… It is really dam stupid that he thinks and tells everyone he is releasing “air “ off the top of the Single Trip. IT IS NOT AIR !!! It is Propane “Gas.” Nothing better then someone teaching How To when they have no idea what the hell they are doing. He does good welding work but knows Nothing about Propane or Safety.
@@wirefeed3419 in this case he really would be introducing actual “air” opposed to propane because the line contains air until propane in some form is introduced
@@smsgtbulldog Thanks for your Comment, yes he is introducing the air volume in the hose directly into the cylinder by not purging the hose before connecting, once in the cylinder it is impossible to isolate the air from the propane Gas so when he thinks he is bleeding air he is bleeding Propane. I am a level A gas Fitter / Inspector, I Know exactly what he is doing in this video, but what do you expect when the person filling cylinder that is not designed or approved for refill thinks he is purging air from the cylinder to allow more liquid propane filling. This is the school of RU-vid where people are shown what they can do, not what they should not do. Very few want to hear what is wrong or give a dam. .
Same here but I use the frost king refillable kit I just bought it's the easiest way to refill the frost king 1lb propane cans when you buy the kit you get 1 free empty frost king refillable tank good for 13 years after 13 years old you replace them still cheaper than the colman tanks with no bleeder screw
Interesting, I never even knew about this "option" for refilling the smaller bottles. Then again I don't have a need for them either though it is similar in process when we fill our HPA tanks for paintball though we have a regulator on the attachment in order to get to the correct PSI.
i always had arguments at the my local Kmart store.. they have a basement and the only way in or out is up a big wide staircase.. its an old building.. they displayed Pallets of small propane canisters and gallons of coleman fuel at the top of the stairs.. also also on the shelves in the basement corner.. half the propane canisters on the top shelf without any kind of device to restrain them .. they just did not understand safety..
I fill empty mapp gas containers using the big 47kilo propane tanks, l leave them in the chest freezer they fill quickly and are great after, l think using the big 47kilo tanks help as there's more weight of gas.
Also just an FYI if you read the side of the small green bottle it is federally illegal to refill these bottles and transport them in your car. I know people do it all the time but it's still illegal I believe it's flame king that makes the only legally refillable one pound bottle
For more efficient transfer : Put green bottles, in the freezer, OVER NIGHT. This, will contract the air inside - thereby for easier transfer. Less compressed air -- to let out with that top Schrader valve...with your welding rod.....
Never mind filling and hooking up and unhooking the can weighing it frost king propane tank filling kit is the best way to do it one time its filled on .the 1lb mark
I could help but think of some of the gun channels that like to shoot propane tanks with .50 tracer rounds. Edwin Sarkissian is right up there with the most crazy of them.
Dang it. I’m going to have to show folks how to do this properly and efficiently and explain how and why it works. I’ve been using a similar home made hose setup for years.
I decant oxygen and Mig gas into my bottles from a friends company saves me a ton of rental fees as I don't use much compared to the rental fees. 200 down 100 bar is enough for me.
I was not aware that turning a modern 20 lb tank upside-down would still allow it to release any gas/liquid, as they have an opd (overfill protection device) type valve on them. From what I know, they have a float mechanism designed into the valve assembly that cuts the flow coming out of the tank if it's inverted or filled to much. Any one else heard of this, or am I getting this wrong?
You should see the looks on peoples faces when we fill the tank on the back of my rock crawler off the 200 gallon tank in the trailer we tow! It is a bit different than what you are doing since we bleed off the gas at the same time the liquid is coming in
I'm going to try hooking the cylinder up and putting it on the scale, zero/tare it out and watch the scale to see when it stops filling. Worth a try. Probably not accurate. Although no more than 16 oz in the cylinder no matter what.
The liquid is not that cold, about -45*F so if you not use to cold winters then yes it will startle ya but for us who endure these kind of temps all winter no different than getting coolant or fuel on hands that is same temp.
Once your done filling would it make sense to flip the main tank back upright to let the liquid fuel in the hose drain back down before shutting the tank valve? That way there would only be gas in the hose not liquid so you would lose less fuel.
Think you can hear when the 1 pounder stops fill? Wrong. I used a stethoscope to listen at the bottom of the 1 pounder & it's filling long after you can no longer hear it. So rather than screwing around taking the 1 pounder off multiple times, when the 20 pound tank is new for the first 5 I just leave them for about 9 minutes & they're full. As the tank empties it takes longer but you can gauge it and nearly always end up with a full bottle, not needing to take it off 2 or 3 times or more.
Where is the link in the description I like that no boy I need one. My son needs one also so he don’t use mine.Again thanks for the videos and thanks for the tip that will save me some money
It is perfectly legal to refill them, however, it is not legal to transport them if refilled (I think that's what the warning says).. No one's going to care (or know) if you fill one of them and have it in your work truck, but I'd think that if you have a pallet full of used looking ones they could catch on if anything were to happen I gotta get me one of those hoses
Have a small one with no valve. very hard to fill that way, but didnt think of letting air out by the valve. That said, unfortunatly this is illegal in Quebec so I only used it in case of emergency. Instead, i baught a 5lb tank with the same adaptor on a hose, so at least I can have refilled legally without problems. Must have been a few idiots that blew themself up ot make it llegal up here .
Cool video. I think I'll try it. Why open the valve on the hose at the end? The end on the propane tank should automatically shut off, and you can just keep the hose charged with propane for the next time.
Your scale should have a "Tare" function where you can set everything up then zero the scale and simply weigh the propane as it goes in. Then you can know how much actual propane your getting and stay in the recommended 80% zone.
@@curtisroberts9137 I'm a commercial hvac tech,there are alot of tricks, but you gotta be careful on here what you tell people,you know different ways to create significant pressure differentials!
